I am installing a stud partition wall in a room that is ground floor and
has a concrete floor.

First part of the job is obviously to screw the 2.0 metre long 4 inch
by 2 inch floor rail down to the concrete floor before doing the ceiling
rail and the 5 vertical rails.

There is an existing DPM under the concrete floor.

How deep can I drill the concrete floor for rawlplugs without
accidentally puncturing the existing buried DPM and causing a damp floor?

House was built in 1986 if that helps with the building regs at the time.

Or am I resigned to using "sticks like swearword" or "No More Nails" to
bond the wood rail to the concrete floor? *big grin*

Regards,

Stephen.

This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double posts.

And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This has appeared twice

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is

Most likely the server says "I didn't quite catch that old chap" when a
message is submitted, when in fact it did receive it, then either the
client automatically, or the user in response to an error dialogue,
sends the message ...

I'd say the server is far from blameless (any transmission system has to
choose between occasional duplicates *or* occasional lost messages).

On Tuesday 17 December 2013 06:37 Andy Burns wrote in uk.d-i-y:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This has appeared twice

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is

Most likely the server says "I didn't quite catch that old chap" when a
message is submitted, when in fact it did receive it, then either the
client automatically, or the user in response to an error dialogue,
sends the message ...

I'd say the server is far from blameless (any transmission system has to
choose between occasional duplicates *or* occasional lost messages).

Could it be something screwing with the message IDs causing duplication
during propogation?

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On 17/12/2013 06:37, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This has appeared twice

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is

Most likely the server says "I didn't quite catch that old chap" when a
message is submitted, when in fact it did receive it, then either the
client automatically, or the user in response to an error dialogue,
sends the message ...



That is certainly the case with news.virginmedia.com. It says the
message was not sent when it was. Just ignore the error messages. Seems
the office junior is having a bit of trouble sorting this out

On 17/12/2013 06:37, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This has appeared twice

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is

Most likely the server says "I didn't quite catch that old chap" when a
message is submitted, when in fact it did receive it, then either the
client automatically, or the user in response to an error dialogue,
sends the message ...

I'd say the server is far from blameless (any transmission system has to
choose between occasional duplicates *or* occasional lost messages).

Posting a message is a transactional thing.
If it fails the sender should be informed and then they can retry.

The sender should be able to assume it has been sent if there is no
error message.

Its not like SMS where there is no way of knowing the message has got
there unless someone replies.

I would guess that someone is running a multi-threaded news server that
doesn't quite work. Maybe it puts stuff in the message database and then
crashes the thread?

dennis@home wrote:

Posting a message is a transactional thing.
If it fails the sender should be informed and then they can retry.

The sender should be able to assume it has been sent if there is no
error message.

Yes, and in practice that usually works well enough, but you can't
eliminate dupes *and* missing messages. Do you wait for an ack? How
long do you wait? Do you ack the ack? Do you ack the ack of the ack?
Do you wait longer for each level of ack?

Its not like SMS where there is no way of knowing the message has got
there unless someone replies.

Some networks have proper delivery receipts for SMS, I believe orange
charge for them now, didn't use to charge when I was with them. Others
have a mickey mouse mechanism, e.g with O2 you have to start your
message with *0#

Snip
Others have a mickey mouse mechanism, e.g with O2 you have to start your message with *0#

As required by Apple ****ephones...

Jim K

On Tuesday 17 December 2013 08:00 Andy Burns wrote in uk.d-i-y:

dennis@home wrote:

Posting a message is a transactional thing.
If it fails the sender should be informed and then they can retry.

The sender should be able to assume it has been sent if there is no
error message.

Yes, and in practice that usually works well enough, but you can't
eliminate dupes *and* missing messages. Do you wait for an ack? How
long do you wait? Do you ack the ack? Do you ack the ack of the ack?
Do you wait longer for each level of ack?

It's not really that hard and is a well solved problem - basically:

Sender/Client=C:, Server=S:

C: Request-to-send
S: SendHdr,MsgID
C: MessageHdrs
S: SendBody
C: MsgBody, EndOfData
S: MsgOK

Only if MsgOK is received can the client assume the message is sent.

If MsgOK is not received in a certain time (tens of seconds), the client
could send a "NOOP" or "ReqStatus" to see if the session had died.

There is a microfine chance of the session collapsing when the server sends
MsgOK so the message is sent but the client does not know.

In which case, a MsgID was issued by the server, so the client retrys the
message but adds the MsgID in so the server will know if it is a duplicate.

Now I must go and see how NNTP actually works! But the above is a
hypothetical protocol - if you can see a failure case, please feel free

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On 17/12/2013 06:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double posts.

And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?



Funny you mention it but I use Thunderbird as well as Virgin Media.

Recently I have been getting error messages in Thunderbird when I send
messages so I end up clicking on re-send. Then I discover multiple
postings later.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double
posts.
And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?

I posted one message to a test group yesterday using VM server.
It arrived three times and was still in my outbox as unsent untill I deleted
it, the three that landed were 3 and 2 mins apart

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double
posts.
And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?

I posted one message to a test group yesterday using VM server.
It arrived three times and was still in my outbox as unsent untill I deleted
it, the three that landed were 3 and 2 mins apart

On 17/12/2013 19:08, Phil L wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double
posts.
And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?

I posted one message to a test group yesterday using VM server.
It arrived three times and was still in my outbox as unsent untill I deleted
it, the three that landed were 3 and 2 mins apart



The symptoms I get is:

I write a follow up message....

click send

Then Thunderbird shows a message at bottom left corner along teh lines
of "connecting to server"

Then I get a pop up message saying that the newsgroup server conenction
has timed out and that the message has not been sent.

I then have to click on OK

and I get taken back to my apparently unsent message.

In the meantime, the "unsent" message does in fact turn up on the public
newsgroup....

On 17/12/2013 22:49, Stephen wrote:
On 17/12/2013 19:08, Phil L wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
This has appeared twice

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83
X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com
X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC
Organization: virginmedia.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes
apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the
senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double
posts.
And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double
posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples
configurations?

I posted one message to a test group yesterday using VM server.
It arrived three times and was still in my outbox as unsent untill I
deleted
it, the three that landed were 3 and 2 mins apart



The symptoms I get is:

I write a follow up message....

click send

Then Thunderbird shows a message at bottom left corner along teh lines
of "connecting to server"

Then I get a pop up message saying that the newsgroup server conenction
has timed out and that the message has not been sent.

I then have to click on OK

and I get taken back to my apparently unsent message.

In the meantime, the "unsent" message does in fact turn up on the public
newsgroup....


I should also add that this is an intermittent problem.

I also get an issue where Thunderbird freezes with a message of "not
responding" an dthe CPU load maxes out to 100% of one of my CPU cores.

This lasts a minute and seems to happen every few minutes.