moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

TIA

On 10/10/13 13:11, jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same type of master box as near the front door here?

probably.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect to a WiFi?

if its Infinity, ther wont be ADSL at all, there will be a BT supplied
wireless router probably. That plugs into whatever they supply


3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable circuit?

yes

4. How is TV taken off?

it isnt. BT do not provide TV services except over the internet or
satellite or terrestrial bbroadcast AFAIK


TIA



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 10/10/2013 13:11, jim wrote:

moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

IIUC BT Infinity is simply BT retail's branded version of Fibre to the
Cabinet (FTTC). You can buy the same technology from other ISPs as well
- BT wholesale provision the same thing in each case.

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

Yup its a normal POTS telephone line from the cabinet in the street to
the property.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to
connect to a WiFi?

Yup. Its VDSL rather than ADSL, but much the same arrangement applies.
You need a filter (this is a posher version of the one used for ADSL)
and it fits in the master socket as an extra layer. BT openreach fit
this when the service is ordered.

That allows the normal phone line to be split off from the VDSL signal.
That is fed to a suitable modem (typically supplied by BT regardless of
who you order from), and that in turn connects to your router if you
have one suitable, or again often supplied by your ISP as part of the deal.

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

yes

4. How is TV taken off?

Its not. BT don't provide a cable TV service as such. They provide a
streamed / downloaded service with PVR so it connects to the ethernet /
wifi side of things.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

The fibre link is only to a cabinet in your street or whatever. Still
cable into your house.

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

The fibre link is only to a cabinet in your street or whatever. Still
cable into your house.

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the exchange.
the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper for High
Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it. Your current ADSL service
is not affected in any way.

You don't have to get your High Speed internet from BT. Once it is
available from your exchange, you can stay with your current ISP and pay
them the extra. Unlike those on Virgin Fibre whho are stuck with Virgin.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

The fibre link is only to a cabinet in your street or whatever. Still
cable into your house.

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the exchange.
the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper for High
Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it. Your current ADSL service
is not affected in any way.

You don't have to get your High Speed internet from BT. Once it is
available from your exchange, you can stay with your current ISP and pay
them the extra.


Unlike those on Virgin Fibre whho are stuck with Virgin.



Yes stuck and liking it, it just works and very well too...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to
connect to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

The fibre link is only to a cabinet in your street or whatever. Still
cable into your house.

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the
exchange. the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper
for High Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it. Your current ADSL
service is not affected in any way.

You don't have to get your High Speed internet from BT. Once it is
available from your exchange, you can stay with your current ISP and pay
them the extra.


Unlike those on Virgin Fibre whho are stuck with Virgin.



Yes stuck and liking it, it just works and very well too...

That probably depends where you are.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim wrote:
moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre
bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to
connect
to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

The fibre link is only to a cabinet in your street or whatever. Still
cable into your house.

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the exchange.
the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper for High
Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it. Your current ADSL service
is not affected in any way.

You don't have to get your High Speed internet from BT. Once it is
available from your exchange, you can stay with your current ISP and pay
them the extra.


Unlike those on Virgin Fibre whho are stuck with Virgin.



Yes stuck and liking it, it just works and very well too...
--
Tony Sayer


+1

I've had the Virgin fibre BB service ever since it first appeared here and
you could take an internet-only service from them. It is lightning-fast, and
I have lost service maybe twice in all the years I've had it. The service
was restored very quickly, and I've found their engineers well trained and
effective. I happen to know that this is very important to them as a
company, as a very old friend of mine going back to apprentice days, is one
of those engineers, and his performance is continuously assessed with swift
action being taken over any perceived shortcomings in the satisfaction level
of the customers he looks after.

Arfa

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:41:44 +0100, charles wrote:

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the
exchange. the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper
for High Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it.

Probably *a lot* extra. How much are Kingston Communications charging
for FTTP? Mind you the overhead installations I saw of that the other
day where pig ugly, Every place now has two "dropwires" running to
it, one for the FTPP and another for POTS...

Your current ADSL service is not affected in any way.

AFAIK ADSL and VDSL (FTTC) cannot co-exist on the same bit of copper.
If you switch to FTTC you need a replacement modem that speaks VDSL
and your ADSL service will cease.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:41:44 +0100, charles wrote:

and, according to a BT spokesperson, who came to our last Parish Council
meeting, copper is still used for the telephone service from the
exchange. the fibre connection is bridged onto your local bit of copper
for High Speed internet.

You only get the fibre if you pay extra for it.

Probably *a lot* extra. How much are Kingston Communications charging
for FTTP? Mind you the overhead installations I saw of that the other
day where pig ugly, Every place now has two "dropwires" running to
it, one for the FTPP and another for POTS...

Your current ADSL service is not affected in any way.

AFAIK ADSL and VDSL (FTTC) cannot co-exist on the same bit of copper.
If you switch to FTTC you need a replacement modem that speaks VDSL
and your ADSL service will cease.

Indeed, but why would you want both?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT), jim wrote:

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get),

**** poor customer service, the individual but wholly owned
"companies" within BT Group don't appear to be able to talk to each
other internally in any sensible manner.

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

I think the NTE has to be changed or at least the face plate.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

Infinity is delivered by VDSL (or similar acronym), BT supply a "home
hub" that has built in WiFi and hopefully at least one ethernet
socket so you can connect properly into your LAN.

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

Yes, that is on the copper pair that connects your premises to the
cabinet where the fibre terminates. That copper pair then runs to the
exchange as it always did to provide POTS. Note the Marketing of
Infinity uses the magic words "up to". The speed you get is dependant
on the distance an condition of that copper pair. I believe they
target a minimum of 15 Mbps but I bet there is no gurantee.

4. How is TV taken off?

TV is delivered over the internet. How that dribbles out of the VDSL
box or if you have a seperate "TV box" that sits on the LAN I'm not
sure. Not usre if you can record one channel and watch others around
the house.

Google is your friend ...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/10/2013 14:20, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT), jim wrote:

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get),

**** poor customer service, the individual but wholly owned
"companies" within BT Group don't appear to be able to talk to each
other internally in any sensible manner.

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

I think the NTE has to be changed or at least the face plate.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

Infinity is delivered by VDSL (or similar acronym), BT supply a "home
hub" that has built in WiFi and hopefully at least one ethernet
socket so you can connect properly into your LAN.

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

Yes, that is on the copper pair that connects your premises to the
cabinet where the fibre terminates. That copper pair then runs to the
exchange as it always did to provide POTS. Note the Marketing of
Infinity uses the magic words "up to". The speed you get is dependant
on the distance an condition of that copper pair. I believe they
target a minimum of 15 Mbps but I bet there is no gurantee.

BT are forbidden by law from offering any different treatment to their
wholly owned subsidiary Plusnet than they give to any other ISP. This
isrigidly enforced much to the frustration of customers and staff of
Plusnet.

The NTE5 is now changed as a matter of course by BT/OR engineers to one
suitable for FTTC connections. The components are of much higher
specifaction and the design is much improved.

The Home Hubs are only suppied to BT Broadband customers. Customers of
other ISPs get a box that deals with the VDSL signals and provides an
1000 ethernet port to connect to the custmer's router.

The length of the copper pair from the exchange to the cabinet has no
effect on the broadband signal which is carried by fibre to the cabinet.
The length and condition of the copper pair from the cabinet does affect
the broadband signal and speed. Given that a large percentage of
customers will be less than half a kilometre for the cabinet speeds
should be quite high. Certainly they should be adequate for most
people's needs.

In my experience the predicted speeds quoted by BT are seriously
pessimistic. That does not mean that they always are but in the case of
the twenty or so installations I have been involved in none were below
the prediction and most were at least 50% higher. No guarantees of course.

--
Peter Crosland

On Thursday 10 October 2013 17:12 Peter Crosland wrote in uk.d-i-y:


BT are forbidden by law from offering any different treatment to their
wholly owned subsidiary Plusnet than they give to any other ISP. This
isrigidly enforced much to the frustration of customers and staff of
Plusnet.


BT own Pusnet? Jeebus...

I was one of the "2000" who was kicked of Plusnet in 2001

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02...ed_by_plusnet/

(There were 2 culls, week or two apart).


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 10/10/2013 18:33, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 10 October 2013 17:12 Peter Crosland wrote in uk.d-i-y:


BT are forbidden by law from offering any different treatment to their
wholly owned subsidiary Plusnet than they give to any other ISP. This
isrigidly enforced much to the frustration of customers and staff of
Plusnet.


BT own Pusnet? Jeebus...

I was one of the "2000" who was kicked of Plusnet in 2001

Before BT bought it. In many cases they were probably justified in their
action.


--
Peter Crosland

On Thursday 10 October 2013 18:37 Peter Crosland wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Before BT bought it. In many cases they were probably justified in their
action.

They damn well were not justified!

They sold us customers a service branded "unlimited". When I rang them up
before joining, I asked if I could leave my ISDN up all the time. "Yes",
they said.

Then later, they decided they'd change their mind.

It was not the "changing their mind" that was so bad - it was the "let;s
boot everyone at 3 days notice" instead of issuing a change of terms and a
month to change usage or change providers.

****ing cocksucking ******s, the lot of them.

Mind you, they forgot to close their forums and disable our accounts - you
should have seen the swearing - all of which ended up indexed by google.

And the spoof websites - "pusnet", "minusnet" etc.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 10/10/13 17:12, Peter Crosland wrote:


The length of the copper pair from the exchange to the cabinet has no
effect on the broadband signal which is carried by fibre to the cabinet.
The length and condition of the copper pair from the cabinet does affect
the broadband signal and speed. Given that a large percentage of
customers will be less than half a kilometre for the cabinet speeds
should be quite high. Certainly they should be adequate for most
people's needs.

In my experience the predicted speeds quoted by BT are seriously
pessimistic. That does not mean that they always are but in the case of
the twenty or so installations I have been involved in none were below
the prediction and most were at least 50% higher. No guarantees of course.


We get ADSL from TalkTalk, the speed is poor due to the distance from
the exchange (said to be 3.8 Km), we get about 3.9 - 4.5 Mb/sec but at
least the connection has proved to be very dependable. The last time a
Bt engineer visited we enquired about fibre optic since Bt was
advertising the exchange as being enabled yet on all the Isp's websites
our line is shown as not fibre -optic capable. He explained that lines
on our small estate were cabled direct to the exchange 3.8 Km's away so
there are is no intervening cabinet, so for the moment-no Fibre Optic.

Previously we did have Fibre Optic broadband from Virgin. We had their
fastest domestic service promoted as 130 Mb/sec. What they actually
delivered was about 16 !

DerekG

In article , DerekG
scribeth thus
On 10/10/13 17:12, Peter Crosland wrote:


The length of the copper pair from the exchange to the cabinet has no
effect on the broadband signal which is carried by fibre to the cabinet.
The length and condition of the copper pair from the cabinet does affect
the broadband signal and speed. Given that a large percentage of
customers will be less than half a kilometre for the cabinet speeds
should be quite high. Certainly they should be adequate for most
people's needs.

In my experience the predicted speeds quoted by BT are seriously
pessimistic. That does not mean that they always are but in the case of
the twenty or so installations I have been involved in none were below
the prediction and most were at least 50% higher. No guarantees of course.


We get ADSL from TalkTalk, the speed is poor due to the distance from
the exchange (said to be 3.8 Km), we get about 3.9 - 4.5 Mb/sec but at
least the connection has proved to be very dependable. The last time a
Bt engineer visited we enquired about fibre optic since Bt was
advertising the exchange as being enabled yet on all the Isp's websites
our line is shown as not fibre -optic capable. He explained that lines
on our small estate were cabled direct to the exchange 3.8 Km's away so
there are is no intervening cabinet, so for the moment-no Fibre Optic.



Previously we did have Fibre Optic broadband from Virgin. We had their
fastest domestic service promoted as 130 Mb/sec. What they actually
delivered was about 16 !

DerekG


Something wrong there then. The 30 meg service we get is that all the
time and sometimes it registrars as 32 odd.!..

Don't think they've ever said they can do 130 meg tho..

--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 19:22:42 +0100, DerekG wrote:

We get ADSL from TalkTalk,

But the copper local end is still BT's and maintained by BT
Openreach.

... the speed is poor due to the distance from the exchange (said to be
3.8 Km), we get about 3.9 - 4.5 Mb/sec

About the same distance here but we get around 6 Mbps on ali cable
but heavy ali cable. Over the years and numerous faults I think all
the joints have been remade as the speed has slowly crept up from
less than what you have.

He explained that lines on our small estate were cabled direct to the
exchange 3.8 Km's away so there are is no intervening cabinet, so for
the moment-no Fibre Optic.

Yep that is also the case in most rural areas. BT have announced the
plans for our exchnage, the single cabinet that there is will have a
fibre box next to it and another will be installed outside the
exchange, not a great deal of use for the two villages both over 4
miles from the exchange... Still the community FTTP has now passed
300+ odd households in the town and customer installs are taking
place.

Previously we did have Fibre Optic broadband from Virgin. We had their
fastest domestic service promoted as 130 Mb/sec. What they actually
delivered was about 16 !

This would be the revised all new definition of "fibre optic
broadband" then as in FTTC (or exchange) rather than FTTP. I do wish
the marketing would call FTTC what it *is* not what just sounds
impressive. If you ain't got a bit of glass coming through the wall
you *haven't* got "fibre optic broadband".

I can see this FTTC coming home to roost in 10 years time when 20 odd
Mbps just won't be enough. At least a bit of glass can run at 1 Gbps
with suitable kit attached and do that over a PON. Such kit is
available now and at prices acceptable for mass domestic
installation.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Huge wrote:

I wish you lot would shut up. I get ~1.3Mbps down and ~300kbps up and I hardly
live in the middle of nowhere (in the macro sense).


:-D

http://www.speedtest.net/result/3026356698.png

Darren (on the downside, I have to live in Folkestone so it's not all good :-)

In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 10/10/2013 14:20, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT), jim wrote:

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get),

**** poor customer service, the individual but wholly owned
"companies" within BT Group don't appear to be able to talk to each
other internally in any sensible manner.

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

I think the NTE has to be changed or at least the face plate.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

Infinity is delivered by VDSL (or similar acronym), BT supply a "home
hub" that has built in WiFi and hopefully at least one ethernet
socket so you can connect properly into your LAN.

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable
circuit?

Yes, that is on the copper pair that connects your premises to the
cabinet where the fibre terminates. That copper pair then runs to the
exchange as it always did to provide POTS. Note the Marketing of
Infinity uses the magic words "up to". The speed you get is dependant
on the distance an condition of that copper pair. I believe they
target a minimum of 15 Mbps but I bet there is no gurantee.

BT are forbidden by law from offering any different treatment to their
wholly owned subsidiary Plusnet than they give to any other ISP. This
isrigidly enforced much to the frustration of customers and staff of
Plusnet.

The NTE5 is now changed as a matter of course by BT/OR engineers to one
suitable for FTTC connections. The components are of much higher
specifaction and the design is much improved.

The Home Hubs are only suppied to BT Broadband customers. Customers of
other ISPs get a box that deals with the VDSL signals and provides an
1000 ethernet port to connect to the custmer's router.

The length of the copper pair from the exchange to the cabinet has no
effect on the broadband signal which is carried by fibre to the
cabinet. The length and condition of the copper pair from the cabinet
does affect the broadband signal and speed. Given that a large
percentage of customers will be less than half a kilometre for the
cabinet speeds should be quite high. Certainly they should be adequate
for most people's needs.

In my experience the predicted speeds quoted by BT are seriously
pessimistic. That does not mean that they always are but in the case of
the twenty or so installations I have been involved in none were below
the prediction and most were at least 50% higher. No guarantees of course.

Mine was substantially LESS - and it wasn't a prediction it was a
statement. Your download speed will be 38mbps - max measured 30
typically 26.
--
bert

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:20:35 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT), jim wrote:

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get),

**** poor customer service,

Yes. If you use BT you will get months of frustration. They'll
probably overcharge you as well.

the individual but wholly owned
"companies" within BT Group don't appear to be able to talk to each
other internally in any sensible manner.

They're not allowed to. However it doesn't stop other ISPs offering a
much better service. Most decent ISP will offer FTTC, "infinity" is
just the BT brand name for the product.

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same
type of master box as near the front door here?

I think the NTE has to be changed or at least the face plate.

There is a new face plate (like an ADSL filtered plate) and an adaptor
between the socket and the face plate.

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect
to a WiFi?

Infinity is delivered by VDSL (or similar acronym), BT supply a "home
hub" that has built in WiFi and hopefully at least one ethernet
socket so you can connect properly into your LAN.

OR will install a VDSL modem and your ISP may supply a router. You
can use any router with an ethernet WAN using PPPoE. Many ADSL
routers will not do this. Some routers that say support PPPoE won't
work (as they run PPPoE over the phone line).

--snip--
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 09:30:09 +0100, Mark wrote:

... the individual but wholly owned "companies" within BT Group
don't
appear to be able to talk to each other internally in any sensible

manner.

They're not allowed to.

"Internally" was possibly the wrong word. They appear to only be able
to contact each other via the same route as any customer. I'm pretty
sure that other providers reselling BT services (just like BT
Business. BT Retail do) have access that doesn't involve normal
"customer services".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 10:23:18 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 09:30:09 +0100, Mark wrote:

... the individual but wholly owned "companies" within BT Group
don't
appear to be able to talk to each other internally in any sensible

manner.

They're not allowed to.

"Internally" was possibly the wrong word. They appear to only be able
to contact each other via the same route as any customer. I'm pretty
sure that other providers reselling BT services (just like BT
Business. BT Retail do) have access that doesn't involve normal
"customer services".

Not that I am aware of. It's all done in the name of 'fair'
competition.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 10 Oct 2013 14:20:16 GMT, Huge wrote:

We rented a house recently that had a "BT Vision" box, which was hooked
into the broadband (using Ethernet over power line, spit) and had a TV
aerial plugged into it. It seemed to do much everything a PVR could,
watch one, record another,

Both provided over the IP connection ie BT Sport 1 and BT Sport 2
(donno if BT does have BT Sport 1 & 2 but you get the idea) or one
over IP the other from Freeview or both from Freeview?

And they way the schedules seem to go these days we often want to
record two things at the same time, indeed our PVR was doing that
last night, 2 DSAT channels being recorded whilst it played a DVD...
If push comes to shove the TV can record another DSAT channel, these
can also all be HD @ DSAT rates (something just under 10 Mbps). Which
is why I think the 20 odd Mbps limit on FTTC will come home to roost
within 10 years.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:

moving! New pad long ago had a BT connection. BT Infinity (fibre bband) is in the area.

Please if I go BT, what do I get? (or am likely to get), viz:

1. Connection from house to street - Will this terminate in the same type of master box as near the front door here?

2. Will I be able to break out the ADSL line (as I do here) to connect to a WiFi?

3. Does it provide a connection for plain vanilla telephone cable circuit?

4. How is TV taken off?

As John says, Openreach or their contractor Kellys will fit a VDSL
adaptor plate to the existing NTE5 master socket in your property. The
supplied modem plugs into this which then feeds your router. The phone
also plugs into the NTE5 socket as at present. What you do with
signal after it leaves the VDSL modem is up to you - your ISP will be
able to supply a suitable router if you don't already have one. The
costs of the connection should be included in the Fibre package you
buy from your ISP.

You should be aware that the speed estimate you are given by your ISP
has the potential to be very inaccurate. The data for all estimates
is sourced from BT Wholesale and does not take into account variables
such as line length from the Fibre cabinet to your property or whether
or not the wiring is aluminium rather than copper. Both these factors
can have a marked impact on the actual download and upload speeds.
According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet and the
presence of aluminium wiring can be a major headache. Apparently
Ofcom are aware of this but progress in improving matters is painfully
slow.

In my case the estimate from Plusnet gave 31 Mbps download and 5 Mbps
upload, but the actual speeds have turned out to be around 7 Mbps down
and just under 0.5 Mbps up. The fibre connection was made in
mid-August and since then there have been 7 visits by Openreach and
contact with 16 different bods at Plusnet in an effort to get some
improvement in the service. I am now waiting for another Openreach
visit. From some digging around online this situation does not
appear to be that frequent but neither is it isolated.

--
rbel

In message ,
lid writes
In my case the estimate from Plusnet gave 31 Mbps download and 5 Mbps
upload, but the actual speeds have turned out to be around 7 Mbps down
and just under 0.5 Mbps up. The fibre connection was made in
mid-August and since then there have been 7 visits by Openreach and
contact with 16 different bods at Plusnet in an effort to get some
improvement in the service. I am now waiting for another Openreach
visit. From some digging around online this situation does not appear
to be that frequent but neither is it isolated.

My son has BT Infinity and is very happy with the speed.

However, on 3 occasions in the last few months, he has turned up in our
lounge asking what the password is for my router because his has "gone
off".

It uses the existing copper from the box. The BT man and I both tried to
find where the cable came in and whether there was anything strange
hanging across it, but we failed. There are no poles and he is about
300yards across what normal people would regard as fields from the box.
--
Bill

In article ,
Bill wrote:
However, on 3 occasions in the last few months, he has turned up in our
lounge asking what the password is for my router because his has "gone
off".


Did he try a simple re-boot by switching off the power? Mine has responded
to that on a couple of occasions since I've had it - but then so did the
old system.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Bill wrote:
However, on 3 occasions in the last few months, he has turned up in our
lounge asking what the password is for my router because his has "gone
off".


Did he try a simple re-boot by switching off the power? Mine has responded
to that on a couple of occasions since I've had it - but then so did the
old system.

As far as I know he did.

BT certainly sent a man round on one occasion, because I had to sit the
house. BT were up and down the road like a yo-yo and it suddenly came
good.
--
Bill

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:35:12 +0100, rbel wrote:

You should be aware that the speed estimate you are given by your ISP
has the potential to be very inaccurate. The data for all estimates
is sourced from BT Wholesale and does not take into account variables
such as line length from the Fibre cabinet to your property ...

Well if they don't take that into account how can they provide any
estimate at all for the speed. It is that last bit of wire (rather
than glass) that determines the speed on FTTC connections.

... or whether or not the wiring is aluminium rather than copper.

Our ali does very well but then it is thick ali, looks to be 1 mm dia
rather than the 0.5 mm of "standard" copper.

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...

Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

... and the presence of aluminium wiring can be a major headache.

Ali can be PITA for voice as well. I get very nervous when ever I see
an Openreach person ferreting about in any of the holes or joints
along the route our pair takes. If it doesn't actually get broken the
crackles from the disturbance can mess up the BRAS, at least if it
does break and voice stops the ADSL being RF can often "leap the gap"
and just about work at 500 kbps or so. At least with Total Care they
come and fix it within 24 hrs 365 days/year. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to upgrade.

Incidentally there is a Virgin cabinet within 100 yards of my house but
a postcode check says they won't do fibre to the house and in any case I
am still ****ed off by the behaviour of the cowboys who originally
installed the NTL fibre who damaged my electricity supply cable and,
instead of reporting the damage, wrapped a bit of insulation round the
damage and buried it. When the supply failed a few months later I was
left without any power in the depths of winter for the best part of 24
hours before the engineers were able to track down and repair the fault.

--
Roger Chapman

On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

I don't follow your logic... ISTM that even with perfect conditions you
would not expect 20Mbps out of ADSL2+ at 2400m line length. 14Mbps would
be about the theoretical maximum.

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...d/performance/

Note that those are theoretical maximum speeds - you will achieve
(possibly significantly) less in real life.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 10:44:05 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...asy_broadband/
performance/

Nice graph and nicely shows how all ADSL variants become more or less
equal at about 3.3 km (2.1 miles) or 45 dB attenutaion. Wonder if
there is a similar plot for VDSL
anywhere...

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...3/images/qa_c6
7_521131-1.jpg
Shows VDSL being no better than ADSL after about 1.5 km (1 mile).

http://www.netsys.com.tw/support/download/VDSL2_WP.pdf
Has VDSL equal to ADSL2+ at about 1.2 km.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 11/10/2013 10:44, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

I don't follow your logic... ISTM that even with perfect conditions you
would not expect 20Mbps out of ADSL2+ at 2400m line length. 14Mbps would
be about the theoretical maximum.

I was wearing my ignorant customer hat. If I lose 15 meg over 1.5 miles
of copper and BT can supply me with 35 meg over 0.5 miles then surely
there couldn't be any valid reason why I didn't get 20 meg at 1.5 miles.
Incidentally I am only 1 mile from the exchange but the wires go by a
round about route.

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...d/performance/


Note that those are theoretical maximum speeds - you will achieve
(possibly significantly) less in real life.


Now here's the thing that really bugs me. My sister gets 8 meg at her
house in Essex which is about 3 miles in a direct line from the exchange
(and it has been as high as 10). So she has been getting roughly twice
the speed I get at at least twice the distance. Since this is outside
your cited graph is it possible that BT could have set up an auxiliary
exchange without making the knowledge public enough for me to notice.
There is one curious aspect of the telephone number which has been in
the family since it was a 3 figure number back in 1947. My father was in
ill health for several years before he died and had some sort of alarm
system routed through the telephone which initially would not work. The
BT solution was to change the first 3 digits of the telephone number
which, allegedly, transferred him onto a newer bank of equipment in the
exchange. Could that transfer actually be out of the local exchange into
an offshoot considerably closer to home. It is only a small town which
no longer warrants a dialling code entry of its own in the new slimline
version of the telephone directory so I can't see that it would justify
2 separate exchanges.

--
Roger Chapman

On 11 Oct 2013 10:30:14 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-11, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

I don't follow your logic... ISTM that even with perfect conditions you
would not expect 20Mbps out of ADSL2+ at 2400m line length. 14Mbps would
be about the theoretical maximum.

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...d/performance/

Note that those are theoretical maximum speeds - you will achieve
(possibly significantly) less in real life.

Given that my exchange is ~7km away, I'm amazed it works at all. (I get ~1.3Mbps
down and ~300kbps up.)

It is amazing it works at all. What's your downstream attenuation?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 11 Oct 2013 10:30:14 GMT, Huge wrote:

Given that my exchange is ~7km away, I'm amazed it works at all. (I get
~1.3Mbps down and ~300kbps up.)

Keep an eye on the "universal access" provision. That means that
*everyone* should have *at least* 2 Mbps by May 2015, oh sorry make
that 2017 now...

There was additional funding (the Rural Community Broadband Fund)
available for getting NGA (Next Generation Access - 25+ Mbps) into
the 10% areas that won't get NGA under the BDUK/BT/Council contracts.

It's not often that the upstream is clobbered below it's normal 448
kbps. The upstream uses carriers with frequencies below that of the
downstream so suffer much less from line attenuation.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2013-10-11, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

I don't follow your logic... ISTM that even with perfect conditions you
would not expect 20Mbps out of ADSL2+ at 2400m line length. 14Mbps would
be about the theoretical maximum.

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...dband/performa
nce/

Note that those are theoretical maximum speeds - you will achieve
(possibly significantly) less in real life.

Given that my exchange is ~7km away, I'm amazed it works at all. (I get ~1.3Mbps
down and ~300kbps up.)



We've got a remote site lots of miles of wire that go around the houses
and we get..


Loop attn: 78 dB SNR 9 3450K up and 512K down..

Now if it would stay there at that that would be fine but its up and
down like the proverbial whores draws;(...


--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:33:39 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-11, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

I don't follow your logic... ISTM that even with perfect conditions you
would not expect 20Mbps out of ADSL2+ at 2400m line length. 14Mbps would
be about the theoretical maximum.

There is a reasonable trade off diagram here (no corporate relation!):

http://www.internode.on.net/resident...oadband/perfor
mance/

Note that those are theoretical maximum speeds - you will achieve
(possibly significantly) less in real life.

Given that my exchange is ~7km away, I'm amazed it works at all. (I get
~1.3Mbps
down and ~300kbps up.)

Have you sorted out your house wiring? We did this:

1) Got the master socket reinstalled in the loft, and had just two lines
run from that (one to where the router is).

Having your router near the master socket can help too, especially on
longer lines.

2) Made sure the bell wire in each of these lines was not connected at
the master socket.

We're about 1.5 miles from the exchange and that pushed our ADSL up from
about 3Mbps to between 5 and 7.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 09:37:55 +0100, Roger Chapman wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed
will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...

Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to
ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

There is a significant difference in the loss on 1/2 mile v 1 1/2
miles of copper, particularly at the higher carrier frequencies.
ADSL2 (up to 8 Mbps) goes up to 1.1 MHz or so, ADSL2+ (up to 20 Mbps)
gets it's extra download speed by extending the carriers used up to
2.2 MHz(ish). "Long" pairs simply have too much loss at the higher
frequencies.

FTTC uses VDSL which does perform better than ADSL on "short" pairs
but again suffers badly, back down to ADSL speeds, once you the pair
length get to about a mile.

I think you need to look past the marketing and see what VDSL is
likely to realisticaly achieve on 1/2 a mile of copper. I'm pretty
sure I've seen it somewhere that they target 15 Mbps minimum for VDSL
delivery. My gut feeling is that should be achievable on 1/2 a mile
of copper.

When the supply failed a few months later I was left without any power
in the depths of winter for the best part of 24 hours before the
engineers were able to track down and repair the fault.

Meh, we were off for 36 hrs last winter when an ice storm brought
down the lines in many places, and snapped 1/2 a dozen or so poles.
Nice bit of snow on the ground, temps barely above freezing during
the day, no great problem. But then I take responsibilty to ensure
that things that are critical/important have backups available or
have contractual terms that mean they get fixed PDQ. Rather than just
believe marketing puff or winge when "they" don't fix things
instantly.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 11/10/2013 11:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
I think you need to look past the marketing and see what VDSL is
likely to realisticaly achieve on 1/2 a mile of copper. I'm pretty
sure I've seen it somewhere that they target 15 Mbps minimum for VDSL
delivery. My gut feeling is that should be achievable on 1/2 a mile
of copper.

BT are currently saying 7 times the speed of vanilla BB which works out
as 35 meg. I am not sure how I would actually benefit from such an
increase as on the rare occasions I view a program on I-player (or
whatever it is called) I don't recall waiting for the download to catch
up with play back.
--
Roger Chapman

On 11/10/2013 09:37, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 11/10/2013 09:06, Dave Liquorice wrote:

According to several Openreach engineers I have spoken with speed will
start to fall off much over 1 kilometre from the cabinet ...
Yep, that is about the distance that VDSL has degraded down to ADSL
speeds.

There is BT Infinity in our area now and BT have been pestering me to
upgrade. I now get up to about 5 meg on what was originally advertised
as a up to 20 meg service. All down so they say to the 1.5 miles of
copper between me and the exchange. The Infinity cabinet is 0.5 miles
away and BT claims I should get 7 times that if I switch but if they can
do that over half a mile of copper they should be able to give me the 20
meg that their weasel words originally promised without the need to
upgrade.

Up to means exactly what is says. You were never guaranteed 20 only that
the maxiumum capability of that type of service was 20 and that the
actual speed would be dependent on a number of factors of which line
length was a major one. To suggest otherwise is simply not true. The
reality is that getting the speed you have is about what might be
expected for your line length.


--
Peter Crosland