Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

"RobertL" wrote in message
...


Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our
victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and
installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in
contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with
rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in
front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the new
stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new one
onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

Your problem is not the ceiling moulding, it's the neighbour.
Noise abatement?
http://noiseabatementsociety.com/

On 08/10/2013 08:46, Richard wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...


Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our
victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and
installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not
in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b
with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build
another in front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind
the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast
a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

Your problem is not the ceiling moulding, it's the neighbour.
Noise abatement?
http://noiseabatementsociety.com/

Quite so :-)

Aside from the visible part of the wall, I'd look above the ceiling and
below the floor. Check for loose brick and any other gaps.

I'd guess the nature of the noise might help troubleshoot. Say, higher
frequency and intelligible speech suggest movement through air, and gaps
in brick. Lower frequency thuds and bumps suggest lack of mass, and
lightweight porous construction. I'd stress the word 'guess' :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 09:04:59 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 08/10/2013 08:46, Richard wrote:


Aside from the visible part of the wall, I'd look above the ceiling and
below the floor. Check for loose brick and any other gaps.

I'd guess the nature of the noise might help troubleshoot. Say, higher
frequency and intelligible speech suggest movement through air, and gaps
in brick. Lower frequency thuds and bumps suggest lack of mass, and
lightweight porous construction. I'd stress the word 'guess' :-)
Cheers, Rob

Yes, I didn't go into full details of the soundproofing. I plan to go below the floor and into the ceiling/floorboard void above and remove all mechanical contact with the existing (solid) party wall. The bedroom above already has soundproofing but it stops at floorboard level. Closing off the flanking paths is very important as you point out.

My experience upstairs was very good. Before we added the soundproofing we could hear the baby crying next door very clearly, and conversation. Afterwards we could hear nothing.

The transmission seems to be quite broad spectrum. I have a dB meter and most of the sound does seem to becoming directly through the wall right behind their piano. I expect there is some transmission via the underfloor void also which I will need to take care of at the same time.

We do have our own piano (not against the party wall) and I would like to protect them from ours also.

Robert

On 08/10/2013 12:02, RobertL wrote:

We do have our own piano (not against the party wall) and I would like to protect them from ours also.

Robert




Not going for "Duelling Pianos" then :-)

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our
victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and
installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in
contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with
rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in
front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the
new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new
one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

These "mouldings" were constructed in situ by passing a former over wet
plaster applied to the ceiling/wall junction.
It was done progressively in many layers.
The former is just s thin piece of wood with one edge cut to the desired
shape, at the desired angle.
I have only seen it done once, highly skilled work.
Any fancy patterns (mouldings) are made of plaster of paris, stuck on with
more plaster of paris.

All from the days when plastering was a profession.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
These "mouldings" were constructed in situ by passing a former over wet
plaster applied to the ceiling/wall junction.

Not if it contains flowers etc as many do. Those were cast off site.

--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:30:49 AM UTC+1, RobertL wrote:
Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and installed a piano against the party wall.
For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in front of the first.
My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.


http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Cornice
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...oise_reduction


NT

On 08/10/2013 08:30, RobertL wrote:

Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in front of the first.

Asking the neighbour to move the piano might be a simpler solution!

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

I have seen it done once by a specialist repairer after a tenant in the
upstairs apartment above our premises installed themselves a shower
*without* bothering to plumb in the drain! I am *NOT* kidding !!!

Most of the boardroom ceiling came down and crumpled one cylindrical
steel leg of the large meeting table. The plaster dust totally wrecked
all the inkjet printers in the premises for good measure. We were very
lucky it happened at the weekend if anyone had been in there it could
have been fatal! It was all repaired by the landlords insurance and his
upstairs tenants were evicted as a result of their negligence.

The way they did it was to take silicone or latex mouldings from the
remaining good parts and then cast chunks offsite and attach them. I
didn't get to see how they stuck the new parts back up to the main
ceiling. It took them quite a while to finish it with many visits.

I think you will find it very hard to do a decent job unless you have a
lot of experience working with plastering ceilings and plaster casting.

Fred Aldous has the latex and suitable remeltable PVC plastics for
making the moulds - you will also need to make a support for the mould.

Don't do anything irreversible until you have been able to cast some
matching ceiling moulding of an acceptable quality.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 10:53:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/10/2013 08:30, RobertL wrote:



Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and installed a piano against the party wall.



For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in front of the first.



Asking the neighbour to move the piano might be a simpler solution!


I suspect it will need that as well.

Robert

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 10:53:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
The way they did it was to take silicone or latex mouldings from the
remaining good parts and then cast chunks offsite and attach them....

Fred Aldous has the latex and suitable remeltable PVC plastics for
making the moulds - you will also need to make a support for the mould.

Don't do anything irreversible until you have been able to cast some
matching ceiling moulding of an acceptable quality.

Thank you that's a good lead.

Robert

In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 10:53:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
The way they did it was to take silicone or latex mouldings from the
remaining good parts and then cast chunks offsite and attach them....

Fred Aldous has the latex and suitable remeltable PVC plastics for
making the moulds - you will also need to make a support for the mould.

Don't do anything irreversible until you have been able to cast some
matching ceiling moulding of an acceptable quality.

Thank you that's a good lead.

Robert

It may prove easier (and cheaper) to simply replace the lot with new
'foam' stuff. Which looks very good.

http://www.ukhomeinteriors.co.uk/

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 10:53:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
The way they did it was to take silicone or latex mouldings from the
remaining good parts and then cast chunks offsite and attach them....

Fred Aldous has the latex and suitable remeltable PVC plastics for
making the moulds - you will also need to make a support for the mould.

Don't do anything irreversible until you have been able to cast some
matching ceiling moulding of an acceptable quality.

Thank you that's a good lead.

Robert

It may prove easier (and cheaper) to simply replace the lot with new
'foam' stuff. Which looks very good.

http://www.ukhomeinteriors.co.uk/

Thanks for that Dave, good looks and prices.

Hacking off the old stuff might be a bit messy though.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 21:18:56 +0100, fred wrote:

Hacking off the old stuff might be a bit messy though.

I don't think you've said if this is a plain coving or an ornate
moulded one. Plain ought to do able in place with a template and
smooth flat runners fixed either side so that imperfections in wall
or ceiling don't get transfered to the cove.

If it's ornate maybe you could (try to) move the bit you are going to
hide. I wouldn't like to rate your chances of getting it off though.
Small sections maybe 9" long with the breaks/joins carefully chosen
in relation to the pattern might make it easier. And cut away with a
drywall saw rather than pry.

--
Cheers
Dave.

RobertL wrote:
Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our
victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and
installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove,
not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of
p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will
build another in front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind
the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and
cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

it's a specialised skill, and I've witnessed hundreds of attempts, all of
which looked hideous, so be warned.

I've patched up holes / chasings in cornices and they're fairly easy, but to
re cast a new one from scratch isn't feasible unless you have about forty
years experience and a wide range of specialist tools and equipment

If it were mine, I would simply build the false wall as planned, but put an
ornate pelmet of wood at the top, to hide the missing cornice, or maybe
setting the false wall back as far as possible into the recess, and building
a display cabinet with lights and shelves etc and again, a pelmet or similar
to disguise the awol cornice

On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:30:49 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

has anyone done such copying/casting?

Just a bit of sheet metal, a few scarps of wood, and practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyBLMZbdS8c

Aiui a corner molding is made similarly, but "drawn" in a corner, with straw put
in the bottom it to give it strength. Castings were sometimes made in molds of
gelled hide glue...


Thomas Prufer

On 08/10/2013 08:30, RobertL wrote:

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind
the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and
cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

Saw a friend do it once - just to replace a one off straight section. He
used a combination of techniques, but it seemed to work ok.

Starting with a accurate tracing of the profile, he made a ply template
to act as a profiling tool. Then rather than try and do it in place made
up a long ply trough to hold the section. Lined the bottom of it with
scrim and some EML. Then poured in the fist mix of plaster. After that
had gone off, added another mix and profiled that with the template.
Basically repeating that until it was full enough, and the final pass of
the template was leaving behind the required profile.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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On 08/10/2013 08:30, RobertL wrote:

Can anyone advise me please? I want to soundproof an alcove in our victorian terraced house; next door have removed a chimney breast and installed a piano against the party wall.

For sound proofing here will be a new stud wall across the alcove, not in contact with the party wall, faced with 2 or three sheets of p/b with rockwook fill in the space. If that's not enough I will build another in front of the first.

My problem is the nice ceiling moulding which will be hidden behind the new stud wall(s). Ideally I'd like to take a copy of it and cast a new one onto the ceiling and new wall.

has anyone done such copying/casting?

Doing it properly is a dying art but there is another approach, which
might feel a bit of a cheat, but may work for you. I went to the
homebuilding and renovating show last year at the NEC. There was a
stand there selling preformed mouldings that (according to them) could
be assembled in combinations to replicate almost any traditional
pattern. I thought it seemed a useful resource at the time but haven't
had cause to make use of them since. Can't recall if the products were
plaster or something else (may have been a mix).

Unfortunately, I can't recall the name of the firm and SWMBO seems to
have 'cleared up' (ie binned) all the propaganda I picked up there, but
I remember they had a fairly extensive web site, so a bit of time with
google and/or looking up the exhibitors at that show might be productive.

In article , GMM
GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk@?.? writes

Doing it properly is a dying art but there is another approach, which
might feel a bit of a cheat, but may work for you. I went to the
homebuilding and renovating show last year at the NEC. There was a
stand there selling preformed mouldings that (according to them) could
be assembled in combinations to replicate almost any traditional
pattern. I thought it seemed a useful resource at the time but haven't
had cause to make use of them since. Can't recall if the products were
plaster or something else (may have been a mix).

Unfortunately, I can't recall the name of the firm and SWMBO seems to
have 'cleared up' (ie binned) all the propaganda I picked up there, but
I remember they had a fairly extensive web site, so a bit of time with
google and/or looking up the exhibitors at that show might be productive.

Lots of this going on in Glasgow, here's some inspiration:

http://www.wmboyle.co.uk/

http://www.reproduction-plaster.co.uk/products-cornice (really slow
site)

Ready made may save a lot of work if the o/p can find a match.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .