OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make

references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and

their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

It's illegal, but I don't know off hand which bit of legialation prohibits it.
I think it's the Construction and Use Regualtions (?) rather than the Highway Code.

On coaches fitted with video screens, the screen has to be behind the driver where it cannot distract him.

In article , alo
writes
OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

Driving without due care and attention would apply (probably replaced by
a different name these days), definitely an offence.

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

uk.legal might have been a better choice of group.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:02:18 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:

It's illegal, but I don't know off hand which bit of legialation prohibits it.


Illegal.
Full answer here;
http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode ray tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer..

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.€”(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information€”

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..
.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made




--
Tony Sayer

On 5 Oct 2013 11:03:17 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0


(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any
cathode ray tube

There's your get-out, right there.


I thought that, but it goes on:
"...or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other
than information."

--
Davey.

alo wrote:

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

If the driver can see the video when in motion, then no it's not legal,
but there *are* some screens which can show e.g. satnav to the driver,
while simultaneously showing a video to the front-seat passenger.

On 5 Oct 2013 14:23:03 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Andy Burns wrote:
alo wrote:

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large
smartphone or tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of
the dashboard.The device was on and playing a video. The screen
was even tilted in the direction of the driver....

If the driver can see the video when in motion, then no it's not
legal, but there *are* some screens which can show e.g. satnav to
the driver, while simultaneously showing a video to the front-seat
passenger.

There was some plonker walking down the stairs at the railway station
yesterday watching something on a iPad. I was poised ready to step
over his twitching corpse, but he made it to the bottom of the stairs
OK.


So you missed your opportunity, then? g

--
Davey.

No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"alo" wrote in message
...
OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor
vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see,
whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode
ray tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image
derived from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.

With all the driving aid options chosen, the latest Mercedes S Class
could be autonomous. However, to avoid problems with litigation if there
were an accident, the driving aids only work so long as the driver keeps
a hand on the steering wheel. Otherwise, it gives a warning after 10
seconds and disconnects the driving aids after 15 seconds.

Colin Bignell

On 05/10/2013 11:27, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.€”(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information€”

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..

That is the text as originally published. Amendment regulations are
issued almost every year, as technology advances.

Colin Bignell

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:11:54 PM UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

No, but it still falls under the description of "other cinematographic apparatus" and is still illegal.

On 05/10/2013 18:37, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:11:54 PM UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

No, but it still falls under the description of "other cinematographic apparatus" and is still illegal.


It has probably been amended at some point, but searching for
Construction and Use (Amendment) Regulations on the government
legislation web site comes up with a six page list, which is a bit much
to wade through.

Colin Bignell

On 05/10/2013 18:32, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2013 11:27, tony sayer wrote:
.....
Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..

That is the text as originally published. Amendment regulations are
issued almost every year, as technology advances.

Looking at the list of amendment regulations on the legislation web
site, that should read 'issued up to nine times in any one year'.

Colin Bignell

On 05/10/2013 18:17, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things
and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.

With all the driving aid options chosen, the latest Mercedes S Class
could be autonomous. However, to avoid problems with litigation if there
were an accident, the driving aids only work so long as the driver keeps
a hand on the steering wheel. Otherwise, it gives a warning after 10
seconds and disconnects the driving aids after 15 seconds.

Colin Bignell

Could it have been a dash cam, which may be legal.

On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

SteveW

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:27:24 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..
.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made





I saw a big UPS delivery van, driver in brown army fatigues, and a big
CRT monitor in the cab. I think it must have been for the reversing
camera, but it looked ever so "retro" (see what I did there?)


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:27:24 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..
.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made





I saw a big UPS delivery van, driver in brown army fatigues, and a big
CRT monitor in the cab. I think it must have been for the reversing
camera, but it looked ever so "retro" (see what I did there?)



Ho ho. Don't you hate it when you cast your pearls before swine? The other
night I was crossing the road at a mini-roundabout by cutting across the
lanes as there was no traffic. I told my compatriots that I was "striking
a chord". Might as well have saved my breath. ;-)

Tim

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 12:18:07 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On 5 Oct 2013 11:03:17 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0


(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any
cathode ray tube

There's your get-out, right there.


I thought that, but it goes on:
"...or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other
than information."

Actually it doesn't go on, it comes before the reference to CRT.

Para (2) seeks to clarify para (1) but in doing so it limits the
display device to a CRT.

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:56:05 PM UTC+1, Graham. wrote:

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

An evil one might get you off, though I doubt it.
A good one would ensure you got the punishment you deserved.

fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris

Regardless of whether passenger and driver are seeing different things,
no-one in another vehicle should be able to see any video.

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

Plenty of the factory-fit screens for rear seat passengers fit into the
headrests of the front seats.

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 17:38:42 -0700 (PDT), Onetap wrote:

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

An evil one might get you off, though I doubt it.
A good one would ensure you got the punishment you deserved.

No the lawyer/barrister is employed by you to get the best result for
you and screw everybody else (and you of your money).

Anyway isn't the text we are arguing about the orginal rather than
what is actually in place now after amendments?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/10/2013 20:46, SteveW wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

I don't often look at my satnav. I rely more upon the voice
instructions, although the countdown bar can be useful when within the
last few hundred yards before a turn when there is more than one
possible option.

Colin Bignell

On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

It is an option on most high-end cars these days.

Colin Bignell

On 06/10/2013 10:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 17:38:42 -0700 (PDT), Onetap wrote:

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

An evil one might get you off, though I doubt it.
A good one would ensure you got the punishment you deserved.

No the lawyer/barrister is employed by you to get the best result for
you and screw everybody else (and you of your money).

Anyway isn't the text we are arguing about the orginal rather than
what is actually in place now after amendments?

Indeed. I count over 100 amendment regulations issued so far, but CBA to
go through them all to see which may amend this paragraph.

Colin Bignell

In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

Brian


Well it still sez CRT in the current regs. One of our neighbours is a
barrister I'll ask him when I get a moment...
--
Tony Sayer

Nightjar wrote:
On 06/10/2013 10:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Anyway isn't the text we are arguing about the orginal rather than
what is actually in place now after amendments?

Indeed. I count over 100 amendment regulations issued so far, but CBA to
go through them all to see which may amend this paragraph.

Regardless of what has been quoted here, in effect, any screen capable
of producing an image which the driver can see while the vehicle is in
motion must only be used to show information relating to the condition
of the vehicle or load (e.g. instrument readings or, in the case of the
ones I drive most days, a picture of the emergency exit(s) or the image
from a reversing camera. You can also have CCTV linkage with the load
bay of a lorry, which is handy if you've got animals on board.) or
information relating to navigation.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

Brian


Well it still sez CRT in the current regs. One of our neighbours is a
barrister I'll ask him when I get a moment...

Have they dropped the reference to "other cinematographic equipment", then?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 06/10/2013 10:16, Andy Burns wrote:
polygonum wrote:

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

Plenty of the factory-fit screens for rear seat passengers fit into the
headrests of the front seats.


But, as a driver, I do not notice them. Do they have especially narrow
fields of view? Or in some other way not attract my attention?

--
Rod

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 10:46:44 AM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Anyway isn't the text we are arguing about the orginal rather than

what is actually in place now after amendments?

I'm not arguing. My opinion is that non-CRT video devices fall under the "other cinematographic apparatus" description and you'd be convicted under the act.
You seem to disagree.

The only real test would be a court case arguing that defence.
That may already have been done, there may be relevant case law but,
SFAIK no-one can be arsed to trawl through the internet and court reports to find out.

We shall never know nor care.

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 13:05:31 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Anyway isn't the text we are arguing about the orginal rather
than
what is actually in place now after amendments?

Indeed. I count over 100 amendment regulations issued so far, but
CBA
to go through them all to see which may amend this paragraph.

Regardless of what has been quoted here, in effect, any screen capable
of producing an image which the driver can see while the vehicle is in
motion must only be used to show information relating to the condition
of the vehicle or load

We aren't discussing the content/information shown on the screen but
the technology of the screen used to display that
content/information.

The quoted section only mentions one type of screen technology (CRT)
for the display of the information, it does not mention the other
forms such as LCD, OLED etc. The section explicitly mentioning a
single display technology can mean that anything related to
restrictions on *that* technology need not apply to any other display
technology.

--
Cheers
Dave.

polygonum scribbled...


On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris

Regardless of whether passenger and driver are seeing different things,
no-one in another vehicle should be able to see any video.


National Express Coaches had tellies for a while, but had to remove them
when it was found that truck drivers were pulling up beside them on
motorways and watching.



A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 17:38:42 -0700 (PDT), Onetap wrote:

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

An evil one might get you off, though I doubt it.
A good one would ensure you got the punishment you deserved.

No the lawyer/barrister is employed by you to get the best result for
you and screw everybody else (and you of your money).

Good God, this is only solicitor type costs and a simple trip to the
magistrates court.


--
Adam

On 06/10/2013 11:05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2013 20:46, SteveW wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

I don't often look at my satnav. I rely more upon the voice
instructions, although the countdown bar can be useful when within the
last few hundred yards before a turn when there is more than one
possible option.

Colin Bignell

I had to go somewhere I don't know today and used my satnav, but just as
a test, when on a long road, I tried checking the names of the roads I
passed, as you would when navigating by A-Z. Every damned one of them
had only one sign and that was on the wrong side for me, meaning I could
only see them by virtually stopping and looking right round behind me -
not good on a busy, city centre main road.

SteveW

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:39:18 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

Well it still sez CRT in the current regs. One of our neighbours is a
barrister I'll ask him when I get a moment...

Hah.
I'm sure he loves getting his brains picked on obscure law, whenever
he's got a free moment.

In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus
On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:39:18 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

Well it still sez CRT in the current regs. One of our neighbours is a
barrister I'll ask him when I get a moment...

Hah.
I'm sure he loves getting his brains picked on obscure law, whenever
he's got a free moment.


Its getting him for a free moment, as he commutes he's off at the crack
of dawn and home at some ungodly hour;!..

--
Tony Sayer