OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make

references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and

their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

It's illegal, but I don't know off hand which bit of legialation prohibits it.
I think it's the Construction and Use Regualtions (?) rather than the Highway Code.

On coaches fitted with video screens, the screen has to be behind the driver where it cannot distract him.

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:02:18 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:

It's illegal, but I don't know off hand which bit of legialation prohibits it.


Illegal.
Full answer here;
http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode ray tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer..

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.€”(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information€”

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..
.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made




--
Tony Sayer

On 05/10/2013 11:27, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.€”(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information€”

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..

That is the text as originally published. Amendment regulations are
issued almost every year, as technology advances.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:27:24 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article ,
Onetap scribeth thus
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle
on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether
directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode ray
tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image derived
from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer

Yes .. in need of a bit of updating re CRT's!..
.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made





I saw a big UPS delivery van, driver in brown army fatigues, and a big
CRT monitor in the cab. I think it must have been for the reversing
camera, but it looked ever so "retro" (see what I did there?)


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0

Copied and pasted;

You're looking for s.109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986:

Television sets
109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor
vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see,
whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other
cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.
(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any cathode
ray tube carried on a vehicle and on which there can be displayed an image
derived from a television broadcast, a recording or a camera or computer.

Full regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:11:54 PM UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

No, but it still falls under the description of "other cinematographic apparatus" and is still illegal.

In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
But its not a cathode ray tube any more is it?

Brian


Well it still sez CRT in the current regs. One of our neighbours is a
barrister I'll ask him when I get a moment...
--
Tony Sayer

On 5 Oct 2013 11:03:17 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0


(2) In this regulation €œtelevision receiving apparatus€� means any
cathode ray tube

There's your get-out, right there.


I thought that, but it goes on:
"...or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other
than information."

--
Davey.

On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 12:18:07 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On 5 Oct 2013 11:03:17 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:09:35 AM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Illegal.

Full answer here;

http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/for...p?topic=9544.0


(2) In this regulation “television receiving apparatus” means any
cathode ray tube

There's your get-out, right there.


I thought that, but it goes on:
"...or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other
than information."

Actually it doesn't go on, it comes before the reference to CRT.

Para (2) seeks to clarify para (1) but in doing so it limits the
display device to a CRT.

IANAL, but I recon a good one could get you off on a technicality.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article , alo
writes
OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

Driving without due care and attention would apply (probably replaced by
a different name these days), definitely an offence.

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

uk.legal might have been a better choice of group.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris

Regardless of whether passenger and driver are seeing different things,
no-one in another vehicle should be able to see any video.

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

Plenty of the factory-fit screens for rear seat passengers fit into the
headrests of the front seats.

On 06/10/2013 10:16, Andy Burns wrote:
polygonum wrote:

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

Plenty of the factory-fit screens for rear seat passengers fit into the
headrests of the front seats.


But, as a driver, I do not notice them. Do they have especially narrow
fields of view? Or in some other way not attract my attention?

--
Rod

polygonum scribbled...


On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris

Regardless of whether passenger and driver are seeing different things,
no-one in another vehicle should be able to see any video.


National Express Coaches had tellies for a while, but had to remove them
when it was found that truck drivers were pulling up beside them on
motorways and watching.



A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 08:33:45 +0100, polygonum
wrote:

On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

Chris

Regardless of whether passenger and driver are seeing different things,
no-one in another vehicle should be able to see any video.

A few weeks ago I noticed video (children's cartoons) on a screen in the
back of, IIRC, some form of 4X4 on the M25 in the dark. It struck me
forcibly that I could not remember ever seeing that before. Suspect
someone who didn't know what they were doing simply put it too high on
the seat back.


I see that quite a lot. I fail to see why it would be particularly
distracting to the driver behind.

I was once behind a coach carrying a ladies hockey team who were
"Getting them out for the lads". That was distracting.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 06/10/2013 08:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
fred wrote:

Not relevant in this case but built in dashboard screens are required
not to operate in video mode whilst the engine is running but can
display route finding info.

Isn't it Landrover that can have a clever screen that has a
different display for driver and FS passenger?

It is an option on most high-end cars these days.

Colin Bignell

alo wrote:

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

If the driver can see the video when in motion, then no it's not legal,
but there *are* some screens which can show e.g. satnav to the driver,
while simultaneously showing a video to the front-seat passenger.

On 5 Oct 2013 14:23:03 GMT
Huge wrote:

On 2013-10-05, Andy Burns wrote:
alo wrote:

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large
smartphone or tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of
the dashboard.The device was on and playing a video. The screen
was even tilted in the direction of the driver....

If the driver can see the video when in motion, then no it's not
legal, but there *are* some screens which can show e.g. satnav to
the driver, while simultaneously showing a video to the front-seat
passenger.

There was some plonker walking down the stairs at the railway station
yesterday watching something on a iPad. I was poised ready to step
over his twitching corpse, but he made it to the bottom of the stairs
OK.


So you missed your opportunity, then? g

--
Davey.

No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"alo" wrote in message
...
OT

The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or
tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The
device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the
direction of the driver....

Is this legal... I know it can't be, but does the highway code make
references to types of video devices, what they can show/play and
their positioning inside a moving vehicle.

I am glad I was behind them, they were an accident waiting to happen.

On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.

With all the driving aid options chosen, the latest Mercedes S Class
could be autonomous. However, to avoid problems with litigation if there
were an accident, the driving aids only work so long as the driver keeps
a hand on the steering wheel. Otherwise, it gives a warning after 10
seconds and disconnects the driving aids after 15 seconds.

Colin Bignell

On 05/10/2013 18:17, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.
its obvious that the human brain can only concentrate on five things
and if
four of them are out the window one is the dashboard, then another is one
too many. Still worry not driverless cars are on the way soon.

With all the driving aid options chosen, the latest Mercedes S Class
could be autonomous. However, to avoid problems with litigation if there
were an accident, the driving aids only work so long as the driver keeps
a hand on the steering wheel. Otherwise, it gives a warning after 10
seconds and disconnects the driving aids after 15 seconds.

Colin Bignell

Could it have been a dash cam, which may be legal.

On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

SteveW

On 05/10/2013 20:46, SteveW wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

I don't often look at my satnav. I rely more upon the voice
instructions, although the countdown bar can be useful when within the
last few hundred yards before a turn when there is more than one
possible option.

Colin Bignell

On 06/10/2013 11:05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2013 20:46, SteveW wrote:
On 05/10/2013 17:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
No as far as I'm aware the only devices allowed must bbe advising the
driver
of information pertaining to the act of driving, so I suppose satnavs
etc,
but I heard a rumour that they could be banning any map type displays
that
were visible while actually moving if they could figure out how to do
that.

I can't see them doing that. Yes a satnav is a distraction, but it is
far less of a distraction than trying to consult a paper list of
directions or a paper map, while looking out for road names which may
even be behind you as you pass a junction and trying to recall the next
part of the journey plan. Most roads have nowhere to stop to consult
your directions, so you've got to do it on the move or end up miles past
the turning you needed - even worse navigating in a busy city centre!

I don't often look at my satnav. I rely more upon the voice
instructions, although the countdown bar can be useful when within the
last few hundred yards before a turn when there is more than one
possible option.

Colin Bignell

I had to go somewhere I don't know today and used my satnav, but just as
a test, when on a long road, I tried checking the names of the roads I
passed, as you would when navigating by A-Z. Every damned one of them
had only one sign and that was on the wrong side for me, meaning I could
only see them by virtually stopping and looking right round behind me -
not good on a busy, city centre main road.

SteveW

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:
OT



The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or

tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The

device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the

direction of the driver....

Coincidentally, this came up on the 'Traffic Cops' programme on Dave last night.

The traffic cops stopped behind a car that had been emitting clouds of oil smoke, due to oil spilling over the exhaust.
Whilst the driver was rummaging under the bonnet (they had made no effort to stop him opening the bonnet) they noticed his kids
in the car were watching a DVD screen in the middle of the dashboard.

They said something to the effect that it was in the Road Traffic acts and could result in driving without due C&A or dangerous driving charges.

The driver said the kids had only switched it on when he'd stopped.
The cops hadn't seen it on whilst the car was moving, due to the smoke, so they let it pass.

They did him for his unapproved number plates (he'd been warned before) and something else on his blinged up motor.

On Wednesday 16 October 2013 09:17 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:19:06 AM UTC+1, alo wrote:
OT



The scenario...the car in front of me had either a large smartphone or

tablet mounted in a holder attached to the center of the dashboard.The

device was on and playing a video. The screen was even tilted in the

direction of the driver....

Coincidentally, this came up on the 'Traffic Cops' programme on Dave last
night.

The traffic cops stopped behind a car that had been emitting clouds of
oil smoke, due to oil spilling over the exhaust.
Whilst the driver was rummaging under the bonnet (they had made no effort
to stop him opening the bonnet) they noticed his kids in the car were
watching a DVD screen in the middle of the dashboard.

They said something to the effect that it was in the Road Traffic acts
and could result in driving without due C&A or dangerous driving
charges.

The driver said the kids had only switched it on when he'd stopped.
The cops hadn't seen it on whilst the car was moving, due to the smoke,
so they let it pass.

I should hope so - otherwise I could get busted for using my smartphone as a
GPS, because it could also play videos.

They did him for his unapproved number plates (he'd been warned before)
and something else on his blinged up motor.

Good...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage