Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the name down
but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went through a list of
building items before they hit upon a back door, which she wants replaced.
Most of the time she tells them to ring back on a specific day and time when
she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that because
mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She kept using the
words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same sentence. So I asked
what specific Govt or local council scheme this was part of. She couldn't
answer. Long story short, she admitted that the "subsidy" was just that
their supplier sold them doors and windows at bulk discount because they
bought huge amounts. The "Government scheme" didn't exist, the only link to
the Govt was that their windows and doors met efficiency standards. She
disappeared and passed me on to her manager in the end, who pretty much
repeated what the saleswoman had said.

I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet. But to a
(confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this was an official
scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for old people like the
insulation/central heating stuff used to be. Disgraceful.

On 13/08/2013 19:26, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the name
down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went through
a list of building items before they hit upon a back door, which she
wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring back on a
specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this was
part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that the
"subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and windows at
bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The "Government scheme"
didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that their windows and doors
met efficiency standards. She disappeared and passed me on to her
manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what the saleswoman had said.

I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet. But
to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this was an
official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for old people
like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be. Disgraceful.

+1. My late mother suffered from these for a while. I'm worrying about
how I will cope when the time comes. I'm tempted to get some cards
printed to hand out, which just say "F*** off", perhaps with a backup
with the kids' phone numbers for the really persistent.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 19:26:27 +0100, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:

Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the name
down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went through
a list of building items before they hit upon a back door, which she
wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring back on a
specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this was
part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that the
"subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and windows at
bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The "Government scheme"
didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that their windows and doors
met efficiency standards. She disappeared and passed me on to her
manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what the saleswoman had
said.

I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet. But
to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this was an
official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for old people
like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be. Disgraceful.

Out of interest, what is the legal situation, had your mother "signed
up" ? In the same way a contract with a minor would be invalid, assuming
someone has power of attorney for your mother, would any contract with
her be similarly invalid ?

Giving someone power of attorney does not remove your ability to make (daft)
decisions yourself. You would need someone to declare you incapax so that
your decision were null and void. I run my mother-in-law's affairs under
POA but she can and does still sign cheques - she is not gaga.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:48:42 PM UTC+1, Geoff Pearson wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...

Out of interest, what is the legal situation, had your mother "signed
up" ? In the same way a contract with a minor would be invalid, assuming
someone has power of attorney for your mother, would any contract with
her be similarly invalid ?

Giving someone power of attorney does not remove your ability to make (daft)
decisions yourself. You would need someone to declare you incapax so that
your decision were null and void. I run my mother-in-law's affairs under
POA but she can and does still sign cheques - she is not gaga.

To expand: Whether the OP's mother has mental capacity to enter
contracts and whether somebody has power of attorney are two independent
questions. All four combinations are possible.

Note also that normal power of attorney (the power to act on someone's
behalf) lapses as soon as the donor loses capacity. It is only
Enduring (new) or Lasting (old) powers of attorney that survive the
loss of capacity.

Note also that "No, she doesn't have mental capacity" and "No, nobody
has lasting/enduring power of attorney" is an inconvenient and expensive
position to get to. It is possible to go to the Court of Protection
and gain the necessary powers, but it is worth avoiding.

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the
name down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went
through a list of building items before they hit upon a back door,
which she wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring
back on a specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this
was part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that
the "subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and
windows at bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The
"Government scheme" didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that
their windows and doors met efficiency standards. She disappeared and
passed me on to her manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what
the saleswoman had said.
I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet.
But to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this
was an official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for
old people like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be.
Disgraceful.

I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list" and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

Tim

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:48:42 PM UTC+1, Geoff Pearson wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...

Out of interest, what is the legal situation, had your mother "signed
up" ? In the same way a contract with a minor would be invalid,
assuming
someone has power of attorney for your mother, would any contract with
her be similarly invalid ?

Giving someone power of attorney does not remove your ability to make
(daft)
decisions yourself. You would need someone to declare you incapax so
that
your decision were null and void. I run my mother-in-law's affairs under
POA but she can and does still sign cheques - she is not gaga.

To expand: Whether the OP's mother has mental capacity to enter
contracts and whether somebody has power of attorney are two independent
questions. All four combinations are possible.

Note also that normal power of attorney (the power to act on someone's
behalf) lapses as soon as the donor loses capacity. It is only
Enduring (new) or Lasting (old) powers of attorney that survive the
loss of capacity.

Note also that "No, she doesn't have mental capacity" and "No, nobody
has lasting/enduring power of attorney" is an inconvenient and expensive
position to get to. It is possible to go to the Court of Protection
and gain the necessary powers, but it is worth avoiding.

Indeed. I have had enduring powers for several people - some with capacity,
others not. Everyone should set up am enduring/lasting power for the day
you don't know yet is coming.

"Geoff Pearson" wrote in message
...

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:48:42 PM UTC+1, Geoff Pearson wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...

Out of interest, what is the legal situation, had your mother "signed
up" ? In the same way a contract with a minor would be invalid,
assuming
someone has power of attorney for your mother, would any contract with
her be similarly invalid ?

Giving someone power of attorney does not remove your ability to make
(daft)
decisions yourself. You would need someone to declare you incapax so
that
your decision were null and void. I run my mother-in-law's affairs
under
POA but she can and does still sign cheques - she is not gaga.

To expand: Whether the OP's mother has mental capacity to enter
contracts and whether somebody has power of attorney are two independent
questions. All four combinations are possible.

Note also that normal power of attorney (the power to act on someone's
behalf) lapses as soon as the donor loses capacity. It is only
Enduring (new) or Lasting (old) powers of attorney that survive the
loss of capacity.

Note also that "No, she doesn't have mental capacity" and "No, nobody
has lasting/enduring power of attorney" is an inconvenient and expensive
position to get to. It is possible to go to the Court of Protection
and gain the necessary powers, but it is worth avoiding.

Indeed. I have had enduring powers for several people - some with
capacity, others not. Everyone should set up am enduring/lasting power
for the day you don't know yet is coming.

+1 definitely.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 05:27:35 -0700 (PDT), Martin Bonner wrote:

Note also that normal power of attorney (the power to act on someone's
behalf) lapses as soon as the donor loses capacity. It is only
Enduring (new) or Lasting (old) powers of attorney that survive the
loss of capacity.

Er, arse about face with "enduring" and "lasting".

The old system was "enduring", they can still be used if made and
signed before Oct 2007. The system now is for "Lasting Power of
Attorney" in two forms "Property and Financial Affairs" or "Health
and Welfare". The Health and Welfare one can only be used when the
donor has gone gaga.

Each LPA has to be registered with the Office of the Public Guardian
and costs £130. So for a couple taking out both forms of LPA mutually
the bill is £520.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the
name down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went
through a list of building items before they hit upon a back door,
which she wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring
back on a specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this
was part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that
the "subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and
windows at bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The
"Government scheme" didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that
their windows and doors met efficiency standards. She disappeared and
passed me on to her manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what
the saleswoman had said.
I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet.
But to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this
was an official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for
old people like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be.
Disgraceful.

I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list" and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the
name down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went
through a list of building items before they hit upon a back door,
which she wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring
back on a specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this
was part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that
the "subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and
windows at bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The
"Government scheme" didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that
their windows and doors met efficiency standards. She disappeared and
passed me on to her manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what
the saleswoman had said.
I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet.
But to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this
was an official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for
old people like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be.
Disgraceful.

I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list" and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital should give
out a switchboard number at the very least.

Tim

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:28:36 +0000 (UTC), Tim+
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the
name down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably went
through a list of building items before they hit upon a back door,
which she wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them to ring
back on a specific day and time when she knows I'll be here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were a
"Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and that
because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third off. She
kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised in the same
sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local council scheme this
was part of. She couldn't answer. Long story short, she admitted that
the "subsidy" was just that their supplier sold them doors and
windows at bulk discount because they bought huge amounts. The
"Government scheme" didn't exist, the only link to the Govt was that
their windows and doors met efficiency standards. She disappeared and
passed me on to her manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what
the saleswoman had said.
I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't yet.
But to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded like this
was an official scheme, backed by the Government and subsidised for
old people like the insulation/central heating stuff used to be.
Disgraceful.

I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list" and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her?

How long is a piece of string? ;-)

Doctors and hospital should give
out a switchboard number at the very least.

They should, but they don't.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list" and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital should give
out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

--
F

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital
should give out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

Which is disgraceful.

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.

The simple answer is to block all such calls and force the institutions to
change their policies. If it can work in Ayrshire (when hospitals
discovered that they couldn't contact patients), it could work anywhere.

Tim

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:28:36 +0000 (UTC), Tim+
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
Alzheimer mother was getting pestered by some company (I wrote the
name down but can't find it now). They phoned up and presumably
went through a list of building items before they hit upon a back
door, which she wants replaced. Most of the time she tells them
to ring back on a specific day and time when she knows I'll be
here.

Anyway, they phoned back and spoke to me, the lady said they were
a "Government Approved" company who fitted doors and windows, and
that because mum is over 65, it's "subsidised" for about a third
off. She kept using the words Government, scheme and subsidised
in the same sentence. So I asked what specific Govt or local
council scheme this was part of. She couldn't answer. Long story
short, she admitted that the "subsidy" was just that their
supplier sold them doors and windows at bulk discount because
they bought huge amounts. The "Government scheme" didn't exist,
the only link to the Govt was that their windows and doors met
efficiency standards. She disappeared and passed me on to her
manager in the end, who pretty much repeated what the saleswoman
had said.
I asked them not to contact again, and touch wood they haven't
yet. But to a (confused) elderly person, it must have sounded
like this was an official scheme, backed by the Government and
subsidised for old people like the insulation/central heating
stuff used to be. Disgraceful.

I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her?

How long is a piece of string? ;-)

She can still ring them though.


Doctors and hospital should give
out a switchboard number at the very least.

They should, but they don't.

So force them to change. Block all withheld numbers. Worked in Ayrshire.

Tim

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:25:57 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital
should give out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

And here.

Which is disgraceful.

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.

I totally agree. However I have had this discussion with many people
and consider we are in a minority. I have heard all sorts of lame
excuses for why they withhold their number such as:

- Their call might alert someone else that the intended recipient has
been contacted by a medical organisation and they might want to keep
it secret.
- Their switchboard can't (present a number).
- Their switchboard can only present one number and not their direct
dial number.

I don't accept any of these as valid reasons for withholding their
number.

The simple answer is to block all such calls and force the institutions to
change their policies. If it can work in Ayrshire (when hospitals
discovered that they couldn't contact patients), it could work anywhere.

It hasn't worked here.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:25:57 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital
should give out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

And here.

Which is disgraceful.

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.

I totally agree. However I have had this discussion with many people
and consider we are in a minority. I have heard all sorts of lame
excuses for why they withhold their number such as:

- Their call might alert someone else that the intended recipient has
been contacted by a medical organisation and they might want to keep
it secret.
- Their switchboard can't (present a number).
- Their switchboard can only present one number and not their direct
dial number.

I don't accept any of these as valid reasons for withholding their
number.

The simple answer is to block all such calls and force the institutions to
change their policies. If it can work in Ayrshire (when hospitals
discovered that they couldn't contact patients), it could work anywhere.

It hasn't worked here.

Yet. It takes time but when our hospital realised how many folk were
missing appointments or were unable to take advantage of cancellations they
started presenting a switchboard number. Problem solved.

Tim

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:46:50 +0100, Tim+
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:25:57 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital
should give out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

And here.

Which is disgraceful.

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.

I totally agree. However I have had this discussion with many people
and consider we are in a minority. I have heard all sorts of lame
excuses for why they withhold their number such as:

- Their call might alert someone else that the intended recipient has
been contacted by a medical organisation and they might want to keep
it secret.
- Their switchboard can't (present a number).
- Their switchboard can only present one number and not their direct
dial number.

I don't accept any of these as valid reasons for withholding their
number.

The simple answer is to block all such calls and force the institutions to
change their policies. If it can work in Ayrshire (when hospitals
discovered that they couldn't contact patients), it could work anywhere.

It hasn't worked here.

Yet. It takes time but when our hospital realised how many folk were
missing appointments or were unable to take advantage of cancellations they
started presenting a switchboard number. Problem solved.

I wonder how many hospitals would figure this out rather than just
accept it as unexplained.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:25:57 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.

But wear a burqa and apparently it is

--

On 15/08/13 12:46, Tim+ wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:25:57 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her
a Truecall unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a
"white list" and not ring at all for un-recognised numbers.
But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.
How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital
should give out a switchboard number at the very least.
Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.
And here.

Which is disgraceful.

I've never understood why it's considered okay for some hospitals (and other
institutions) to withhold their number. If I were to go around ringing
folks' doorbells wearing a paperbag over my head or a balaclava it would be
considered unacceptable.
I totally agree. However I have had this discussion with many people
and consider we are in a minority. I have heard all sorts of lame
excuses for why they withhold their number such as:

- Their call might alert someone else that the intended recipient has
been contacted by a medical organisation and they might want to keep
it secret.
- Their switchboard can't (present a number).
- Their switchboard can only present one number and not their direct
dial number.

I don't accept any of these as valid reasons for withholding their
number.

The simple answer is to block all such calls and force the institutions to
change their policies. If it can work in Ayrshire (when hospitals
discovered that they couldn't contact patients), it could work anywhere.
It hasn't worked here.
Yet. It takes time but when our hospital realised how many folk were
missing appointments or were unable to take advantage of cancellations they
started presenting a switchboard number. Problem solved.

what normally happens is the git programming the hospital PABX has the
option of 'present a single number, present actual callers DDI, or
present nothing (default) '

I actually had think about that, but being a commercial company we opted
for 'give our main number'

But lots of people never even get asked the question.

And as long as it is not an 'issue' on some 'manaqement' radar, it
doesn't get (trivially) fixed.

Same thing happen when email starts getting rejected for 'invalid
sender' reasons. people fix it, or bugger off.
..
Of course the NHS can do what it likes with your money.


Tim


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:

[Snip]

Yet. It takes time but when our hospital realised how many folk were
missing appointments or were unable to take advantage of cancellations
they started presenting a switchboard number. Problem solved.

It prbably depends on how big the organisation is. The caller will ring
back and say "you rang me?". With a small organisation a good swichboard
operator will be able to make sense of this call, but a big place, it's
open to doubt.

I recall in the dim and distant past, tryong to contacta colleague who
worked at Alexandrra palace which had a manual exchange. I asked for the
extention by number, to be told, "he's having coffee in thecanteen at th
moment, shall I page him?" That sort of thing only works with small sites.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 15/08/2013 11:27, Tim Downie wrote:
So force them to change. Block all withheld numbers. Worked in Ayrshire.

What worked in Ayrshire?

Have to say, it is the unpredictability of such calls that makes them
difficult to manage. Might be many years between calls from a hospital
so you might not even have questioned whether they have a presentation
number. When they need to get through urgently is too late.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:
On 15/08/2013 11:27, Tim Downie wrote:
So force them to change. Block all withheld numbers. Worked in Ayrshire.

What worked in Ayrshire?

Hospitals gave up withholding their number.

Tim

F wrote:
On 15/08/2013 10:28 Tim+ wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:48:37 +0100, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
I think if my mother were to start losing her marbles I'd buy her a
Truecall
unit and set it up to *only* pass calls through from a "white list"
and not
ring at all for un-recognised numbers.

But then she would not be able to receive calls from the Police,
Doctors or Hospital if she needed to.

How often do the police need to ring her? Doctors and hospital should
give
out a switchboard number at the very least.

Doctors and hospitals here come up as 'number withheld'.

Mine doesn't, and nor do the other medical teams I deal with.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:47:53 +0100, Tim+
wrote:

polygonum wrote:
On 15/08/2013 11:27, Tim Downie wrote:
So force them to change. Block all withheld numbers. Worked in Ayrshire.

What worked in Ayrshire?

Hospitals gave up withholding their number.

Do you/anyone have a link to any article that reports this? I'd like
to show it to some doubters.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:47:53 +0100, Tim+
wrote:

polygonum wrote:
On 15/08/2013 11:27, Tim Downie wrote:
So force them to change. Block all withheld numbers. Worked in
Ayrshire.

What worked in Ayrshire?

Hospitals gave up withholding their number.

Do you/anyone have a link to any article that reports this? I'd like
to show it to some doubters.

Alas no. My wife works in one of the hospitals concerned and it was only
something she heard whilst at work.


Tim