Hi,
we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather than new build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical sort I suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate rather than giving a quote.

However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to allow for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a quote rather than an estimate and
(ii) if it was discovered that extra work needs doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge it/ cover it up as they are working to a fixed price, rather than bringing attention to any extra work and informing us of the cost before proceeding further (although if that happened would we really be in a position to say no to the extra).
(he subsequently gave a written estimate rather than a quote).
Part of me thinks he has a point, but on the other hand is this just part of his sales spiel ?

What does the collective wisdom of the newsgroup think ?

Is it better to request a quote or an estimate ? (thinking of other firms rather than just this one)

Thanks.


P.S. I am posting this to uk.d-i-y and uk.legal. If anybody thinks a different group is more appropriate please let me know.

wrote:

Hi,
we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather than new
build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical sort I
suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate rather than
giving a quote.

As well as your concerns, there's other problems especially with roofing
jobs where few customers ever venture onto a roof to see what the problems
are and/or what the solution is or how well the job is executed. In recent
times whenever a roofer has told me there's a problem I've asked him to take
pics of it on his mobile phone and show them to me... and I've looked at the
pics carefully enough to be sure I'm looking at my roof not some stock pics
of some other roof. And I've been up their ladders for a closer look.

In the past I've had an instance of a company's quote describe in quite
grandiose terms what the necessary work/processes for a repair was. But
when the men came to do the job they spent about 2 minutes doing something
(bodging perhaps?) which wasn't at all what the estimate implied was needed.
I complained & the firm concerned had the balls to say "do you want us to
come back and do what the estimate said?". No I bloomin' didn't, if what
was done was actually adequate... but at the same time if what was done was
enough, I didn't plan to pay the original estimated cost... That's a
company I plan never to use again.

However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to allow
for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a quote rather
than an estimate and (ii) if it was discovered that extra work needs
doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge it/ cover it up as
they are working to a fixed price, rather than bringing attention to any
extra work and informing us of the cost before proceeding further
(although if that happened would we really be in a position to say no to
the extra). (he subsequently gave a written estimate rather than a quote).
Part of me thinks he has a point, but on the other hand is this just part
of his sales spiel ?

I think it depends on the scale of the job. If you're planning to spend
thousands then you want not just to say "I need x, y and z done", but to say
I think there are problems p q & r - what would you do to fix them and how
much will that cost - you want to know how thoughtful they are and whether
they already foresee issues you maybe don't know about. You need several
quotes/viewpoints.

I don't think there's a solution to the issue of whether or not some quotes
will have contingencies built in. I think every company will, if they find
unexpected problems, try to get you to pay more to solve them.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 12/08/2013 00:52, wrote:
Hi, we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather
than new build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical
sort I suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate
rather than giving a quote.

No estimate is 'free'.

However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to
allow for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a
quote rather than an estimate and (ii) if it was discovered that
extra work needs doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge
it/ cover it up as they are working to a fixed price, rather than
bringing attention to any extra work and informing us of the cost
before proceeding further (although if that happened would we really
be in a position to say no to the extra). (he subsequently gave a
written estimate rather than a quote). Part of me thinks he has a
point, but on the other hand is this just part of his sales spiel ?

What does the collective wisdom of the newsgroup think ?

I think he has a genuine point.

Is it better to request a quote or an estimate ? (thinking of other
firms rather than just this one)

I would only give a fixed price quote for doing a specific task. e.g.
'replace those 4 tiles'. If I then found the roof battens were rotten,
I would tell you, but still expect to be paid the fixed price - sorting
the battens would be another job. (Example only, I don't do roofing).


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 12/08/2013 00:52, wrote:
Hi,
we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather than new build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical sort I suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate rather than giving a quote.

However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to allow for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a quote rather than an estimate and
(ii) if it was discovered that extra work needs doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge it/ cover it up as they are working to a fixed price, rather than bringing attention to any extra work and informing us of the cost before proceeding further (although if that happened would we really be in a position to say no to the extra).
(he subsequently gave a written estimate rather than a quote).
Part of me thinks he has a point, but on the other hand is this just part of his sales spiel ?

What does the collective wisdom of the newsgroup think ?

Is it better to request a quote or an estimate ? (thinking of other firms rather than just this one)

Thanks.


P.S. I am posting this to uk.d-i-y and uk.legal. If anybody thinks a different group is more appropriate please let me know.

I'm not sure that there's a standard definition of either term. Your
question implies that you are assuming definitions along the lines of:

Estimate: A rough guide as to what it might cost, but the actual cost
could be different by quite a margin

Quote: A fixed price quotation for doing the necessary work, which will
not vary whatever happens

In reality, life isn't quite as simple as that. What you need is for the
contractor to specify his current understanding of the problem and to
give a fixed price for fixing it - and also to spell out any caveats
which could result in the price increasing when he actually comes to do it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 12/08/2013 09:05, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/08/2013 00:52, wrote:


I'm not sure that there's a standard definition of either term. Your
question implies that you are assuming definitions along the lines of:

Estimate: A rough guide as to what it might cost, but the actual cost
could be different by quite a margin

Quote: A fixed price quotation for doing the necessary work, which will
not vary whatever happens

In reality, life isn't quite as simple as that. What you need is for the
contractor to specify his current understanding of the problem and to
give a fixed price for fixing it - and also to spell out any caveats
which could result in the price increasing when he actually comes to do it.

Indeed it would be very unwise for a business to give a firm quote
without also specifying the limits to that, and allowing for additional
costs if unforseen extra work beyond the scope of the initial quote
needs doing.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/08/2013 08:33, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 12/08/2013 00:52, wrote:
Hi, we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather
than new build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical
sort I suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate
rather than giving a quote.

No estimate is 'free'.

That is very true. Producing a detailed quote for a larger job can
amount to a very significant amount of work. In some cases you may even
have to actually do some of the design work before you can even price it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Jeremy Nicoll - news posts" wrote
in message nvalid...
wrote:

Hi,
we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather than
new
build).

Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical sort
I
suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate rather
than
giving a quote.

As well as your concerns, there's other problems especially with roofing
jobs where few customers ever venture onto a roof to see what the problems
are and/or what the solution is or how well the job is executed. In
recent
times whenever a roofer has told me there's a problem I've asked him to
take
pics of it on his mobile phone and show them to me... and I've looked at
the
pics carefully enough to be sure I'm looking at my roof not some stock
pics
of some other roof. And I've been up their ladders for a closer look.

In the past I've had an instance of a company's quote describe in quite
grandiose terms what the necessary work/processes for a repair was. But
when the men came to do the job they spent about 2 minutes doing something
(bodging perhaps?) which wasn't at all what the estimate implied was
needed.
I complained & the firm concerned had the balls to say "do you want us to
come back and do what the estimate said?". No I bloomin' didn't, if what
was done was actually adequate... but at the same time if what was done
was
enough, I didn't plan to pay the original estimated cost... That's a
company I plan never to use again.

However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to
allow
for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a quote
rather
than an estimate and (ii) if it was discovered that extra work needs
doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge it/ cover it up as
they are working to a fixed price, rather than bringing attention to any
extra work and informing us of the cost before proceeding further
(although if that happened would we really be in a position to say no to
the extra). (he subsequently gave a written estimate rather than a
quote).
Part of me thinks he has a point, but on the other hand is this just part
of his sales spiel ?

I think it depends on the scale of the job. If you're planning to spend
thousands then you want not just to say "I need x, y and z done", but to
say
I think there are problems p q & r - what would you do to fix them and how
much will that cost - you want to know how thoughtful they are and whether
they already foresee issues you maybe don't know about. You need several
quotes/viewpoints.

I don't think there's a solution to the issue of whether or not some
quotes
will have contingencies built in. I think every company will, if they
find
unexpected problems, try to get you to pay more to solve them.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.


Not quite the same type of business, I know, but if I do you an estimate of
what a repair is going to cost you, that's free, but it is made clear that
it is a 'guesstimate' based on experience of previously encountered similar
problems, and subject to change depending on what I actually find. If you
want a firm quote, you have to pay for that, due to the fact that I have to
virtually complete the repair to be sure of the costings involved.

Arfa

On Monday, 12 August 2013 00:52:58 UTC+1, wrote:
Hi,

we need to have some roofing/building work done. (repair rather than new build).
Most of them seem to advertise ‘free estimates’. Being the cynical sort I suspect this is so they can then charge more than the estimate rather than giving a quote.



However one chap said that (i) a quote would be deliberately high to allow for contingencies, so we might end up paying more by having a quote rather than an estimate and

(ii) if it was discovered that extra work needs doing, a firm that has given a quote may just bodge it/ cover it up as they are working to a fixed price, rather than bringing attention to any extra work and informing us of the cost before proceeding further (although if that happened would we really be in a position to say no to the extra).

(he subsequently gave a written estimate rather than a quote).

Part of me thinks he has a point, but on the other hand is this just part of his sales spiel ?



What does the collective wisdom of the newsgroup think ?

Is it better to request a quote or an estimate ? (thinking of other firms rather than just this one)



Thanks.





P.S. I am posting this to uk.d-i-y and uk.legal. If anybody thinks a different group is more appropriate please let me know.


When I asked for a quote for my roof I wasn;t sure whether I got an estimate or a Quote for a new roof £11.5K they produced an A4 sheet of what they were going to do. At the end there was an extra £800 to pay can;t remmebr the details.
I heard that they give basic quotes/estimates based on other properties and looking at googlemaps to work out the area of the roof. They didn't come inside ther property to inspect the roof.
Perhaps they would have charged for an estimate/quote vica-versa because someone would need to visit.