http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:33:04 AM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html

Swamp forests in the US are being felled to help keep the lights on in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22630815

In NZ we've just approved a new open cast coal mine, if you guys would like some coal.

On 08/08/13 08:45, Matty F wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:33:04 AM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html
Swamp forests in the US are being felled to help keep the lights on in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22630815

In NZ we've just approved a new open cast coal mine, if you guys would like some coal.
Oddly enough NZ is the one country that might actually derive small
benefits from windpower, because you have so much hydro to co-operate it
with.

I was not aware NZ had any coal to speak of?

Great little country. Try to stop socialism from ruining it.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows world
they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal emmissions, so
what went wrong?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:33:04 AM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html

Swamp forests in the US are being felled to help keep the lights on in the
UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22630815

In NZ we've just approved a new open cast coal mine, if you guys would
like some coal.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it
I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows
world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal
emmissions, so what went wrong?

I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:33:04 AM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html

Swamp forests in the US are being felled to help keep the lights on in
the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22630815

In NZ we've just approved a new open cast coal mine, if you guys would
like some coal.

On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:


I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


Non stick pans and word processors are two that jump immediately to mind
but TW seemd to do regular articles on a very early form of renewable
energy "Salters Ducks" - whatever happened to them.....


--
Chris

news wrote:
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:


I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


Non stick pans and word processors are two that jump immediately to mind
but TW seemd to do regular articles on a very early form of renewable
energy "Salters Ducks" - whatever happened to them.....

Project failed to secure the next round of research funding with claims
that the design was unreliable. Salter argued that it was a prototype and
hence wasn't properly production engineered. Then I think he gave up. It
did strike me that it was so good at taking energy out of waves that it
would have value as a coastal defence with a bit of energy on the side.

Film at the time showed calm water on the land side of the ducks,
significant waves out to sea.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 8:06:46 PM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/13 08:45, Matty F wrote:

On Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:33:04 AM UTC+12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914158.html

Swamp forests in the US are being felled to help keep the lights on in the UK:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22630815



In NZ we've just approved a new open cast coal mine, if you guys would like some coal.

Oddly enough NZ is the one country that might actually derive small

benefits from windpower, because you have so much hydro to co-operate it

with.



I was not aware NZ had any coal to speak of?

Last time I heard, we have enough coal to last at least 1200 years.
Yes windpower can make sense in NZ, with 70% hydro power. There's also geothermal power, and I don't know why we don't use tidal power. The tide in a couple of places (Kaipara, Cook) is enough to run the whole country.
With earthquakes and active volcanoes, there's nowhere safe to put nuclear power.

Brian Gaff wrote:
We have plenty of coal ... so what went wrong?

Politicians.

JGH

On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:14:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows world
they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal emmissions, so
what went wrong?

May 4th 1979 -

--

On 08/08/2013 10:51, news wrote:
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:


I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a
collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


Non stick pans and word processors are two that jump immediately to mind
but TW seemd to do regular articles on a very early form of renewable
energy "Salters Ducks" - whatever happened to them.....


SNAFUs. The costs were badly over-estimated and a research grant of
several millions allocated to the project never actually got to the
research team. Add to that falling oil prices and the project simply
faded into the background. The idea has been revived in recent years but
ISTR they never completely solved the problem of very rough seas
flipping the ducks over.

Colin Bignell

On Thursday, 8 August 2013 10:34:55 UTC+1, Max Quad wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message

...

We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it

I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows

world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal

emmissions, so what went wrong?



I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

CDs I'm sure there was some other stuff too.

Mobile phone 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vix6TMnj9vY

Digital camera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOsHo-bjbIM

In article ,
"Max Quad" writes:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it
I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows
world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal
emmissions, so what went wrong?

I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Compact fluorescents (the original Philips SL18 with a magnetic
ballast and starter).
Inkjet printers.
Probably more if I gave it some more thought...

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.

That was excellent.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose.

We *had* plenty of coal, a few hundreds of years in known workable seams.
However, once mines have been abandoned and allowed to flood/collapse,
it's unlikely to ever be possible to retrieve it - the costs and risks
have become astronomic, because the mines can't ever be made stable
enough to work in again.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 08/08/13 14:14, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose.
We *had* plenty of coal, a few hundreds of years in known workable seams.
However, once mines have been abandoned and allowed to flood/collapse,
it's unlikely to ever be possible to retrieve it - the costs and risks
have become astronomic, because the mines can't ever be made stable
enough to work in again.

the problem was the USA had coal for hundreds of years almost on the
surface, which they could scrape up in a dragline excavator, and it took
less enery and manpower to do that and stick it on a boat than it does
to get it out of the ground here.

watt hour for watt hour, we would probably get nore out per unit
invested mining British uranium.

UK coal industry was dead on its feet from 1970 onwards, apart from a
few pits.

Which is why we started building nukes. Then came cheap North sea gas
and high interest rates and the economic arguments for nukes vanished
for 30 years.


All these qualitative comments are fluff and bollox.

There is a huge fusion reactor in the sky 93 million miles away capable
of putting pout more energy than we know what to do with.

Sadly a tiny fraction arrives here, and an even tinier fraction is
usable, and at massively high overall costs. Which is why solar panels
are a total waste of time.

It doesn't matter how much coal oil gas uranium or renewable energy we
have if we cant use it or it costs a bomb to use it.

Depending on what is discovered, right now fracked gas should be the
cheapest way to go for 20 years+ Long enough to build the nukes.

So when it too gets too expensive (NOT 'runs out') we just phase in the
nukes in an orderly fashion.

having phased out all uneconomic renewables by 2025, and kept the gas
plants instead..

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 08/08/2013 13:22, The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:14:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows world
they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal emmissions, so
what went wrong?

May 4th 1979 -


Is that when scargill declared war and caused the run from coal?

On 08/08/2013 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows world
they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal emmissions, so
what went wrong?


Wrong sort of coal. By the 1970s, it was cheaper to ship open cast coal
from Australia than it was to get it from British deep mines. However,
our coal seams are quite well suited to underground gasification.

Colin Bignell

On 08/08/2013 14:04, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 8 August 2013 10:34:55 UTC+1, Max Quad wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message

...

We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it

I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows

world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal

emmissions, so what went wrong?



I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

CDs I'm sure there was some other stuff too.

Mobile phone 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vix6TMnj9vY

Aha, from my former Uni's campus... (now demolished!)

That was the pioneering UK version of the technology before we (well
post office and the home office) decided there was no value in it, and
left it to the likes of Ericsson and Nokia to flog that dead horse ;-))


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:34:55 +0100, "Max Quad" wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it
I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows
world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal
emmissions, so what went wrong?

I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


All ten episodes are on youtube. Watchable. (just)

"Ericp" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:34:55 +0100, "Max Quad" wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use
it
I suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows
world they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal
emmissions, so what went wrong?

I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


All ten episodes are on youtube. Watchable. (just)


I put it on my birthday list. I daren't spoil the surprise, since I'll have
the real thing soon enough.

Nightjar wrote:
On 08/08/2013 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
We have plenty of coal, just not got the balls or the investment to use it I
suppose. What is really weird is that many many years ago on Tomorrows world
they were on about a coal fired power station with minimal emmissions, so
what went wrong?


Wrong sort of coal. By the 1970s, it was cheaper to ship open cast coal
from Australia than it was to get it from British deep mines. However,
our coal seams are quite well suited to underground gasification.

Scargill could supply the gas. If he croaks then there's Bob "Windbag"
Crowe to take over.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

--
Rod

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for was
typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few other
vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!

--
Rod

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:51, news wrote:
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:


I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

I also liked James Burke's Connections, but that seems to be a
collector's
item nowadays, and costs a bloody fortune.


Non stick pans and word processors are two that jump immediately to mind
but TW seemd to do regular articles on a very early form of renewable
energy "Salters Ducks" - whatever happened to them.....


SNAFUs. The costs were badly over-estimated and a research grant of
several millions allocated to the project never actually got to the
research team. Add to that falling oil prices and the project simply faded
into the background. The idea has been revived in recent years but ISTR
they never completely solved the problem of very rough seas flipping the
ducks over.

Bit here on the topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salter_duck

"Max Quad" wrote in message
. uk...

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for was
typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few
other vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!


ESSO OIL and SHELL OIL

On Friday 09 August 2013 07:15 harryagain wrote in uk.d-i-y:


"Max Quad" wrote in message
. uk...

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for
was typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few
other vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!


ESSO OIL and SHELL OIL

80085

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:15:26 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Max Quad" wrote in message
.uk...

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for was
typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few
other vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!


ESSO OIL and SHELL OIL

GEAR OIL AXLE OIL DAMPER OIL CRUDE OIL OLIVE OIL BABY OIL 3-IN-1-OIL



--

On 09/08/2013 10:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 09 August 2013 07:15 harryagain wrote in uk.d-i-y:


"Max Quad" wrote in message
. uk...

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 10:34, Max Quad wrote:
I used to love TW, especially in the days of the John Dankworth theme
tune,
but have you ever since seen anything that was on it?

Well they did have a calculator. Think I saw one once...

Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for
was typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few
other vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!


ESSO OIL and SHELL OIL

80085

and 55378008

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:03:34 UTC+1, Max Quad wrote:


Was it the Sinclair one? A mate had one at school. All it was used for was

typing 0553 (and then turning the thing upside down), 7175, and a few other

vaguely amusing things. Those were the days!

I heard a roumour that our CS department brought one of teh fists and expensive hex calculators in the mid to late 70s but it got stolen.
It was said that a someone in a local pub tried to sell it and when demostarting it found it didn;t work, as examples like 10 + 10 = 14 so they throw it away.

Not sure how true it was but I heard it from a number of people that worked there at that time.....

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:14:20 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

I heard a roumour that our CS department brought one of teh fists and
expensive hex calculators in the mid to late 70s but it got stolen.
It was said that a someone in a local pub tried to sell it and when
demostarting it found it didn;t work, as examples like 10 + 10 = 14 so
they throw it away.

Surprised it wasn't reverse polish notation as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Saturday 10 August 2013 21:35 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:14:20 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

I heard a roumour that our CS department brought one of teh fists and
expensive hex calculators in the mid to late 70s but it got stolen.
It was said that a someone in a local pub tried to sell it and when
demostarting it found it didn;t work, as examples like 10 + 10 = 14 so
they throw it away.

Surprised it wasn't reverse polish notation as well.


When PCs were just starting to get around, someone nicked a load of dumb
terminals from my uni - it was presumed they were thought to be "PCs".

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 10/08/2013 22:45, Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 10 August 2013 21:35 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:14:20 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave wrote:

I heard a roumour that our CS department brought one of teh fists and
expensive hex calculators in the mid to late 70s but it got stolen.
It was said that a someone in a local pub tried to sell it and when
demostarting it found it didn;t work, as examples like 10 + 10 = 14 so
they throw it away.

Surprised it wasn't reverse polish notation as well.


When PCs were just starting to get around, someone nicked a load of dumb
terminals from my uni - it was presumed they were thought to be "PCs".

Shortly before I started at mine, someone drove into the campus, and
reversed a van up to the double doors at the end of a corridor, then
proceeded to unload a complete labs worth of XT clone computers into the
back of it. They looked like they were supposed to be doing it, so no
one questioned them!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/