https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent sections, but
the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between wooden
sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then go over
with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark (rosewood
colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist movement and will not
fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like the
best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Watts wrote:
https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent
sections, but the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not
become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between
wooden sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then
go over with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark
(rosewood colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist
movement and will not fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like
the best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

Would it be possible for you to use www.tinypic.com to post the pics, as I
avoid (and probably many others do as well) google like the plague where
possible?

Their T&Cs are not to my liking in the way that they share information
around all their programs.

Cash

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:25 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:

https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent
sections, but the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not
become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between
wooden sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then
go over with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark
(rosewood colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist
movement and will not fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like
the best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

Would it be possible for you to use www.tinypic.com to post the pics, as I
avoid (and probably many others do as well) google like the plague where
possible?

Their T&Cs are not to my liking in the way that they share information
around all their programs.

Cash

You don;t need to log in with the link I gave - but if the cookies bother
you, hold on...


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:29 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:25 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:


https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent
sections, but the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not
become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between
wooden sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then
go over with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark
(rosewood colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist
movement and will not fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like
the best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

Would it be possible for you to use www.tinypic.com to post the pics, as
I avoid (and probably many others do as well) google like the plague
where possible?

Their T&Cs are not to my liking in the way that they share information
around all their programs.

Cash

You don;t need to log in with the link I gave - but if the cookies bother
you, hold on...



Here's the worst one:

http://tinypic.com/r/fm3vbs/5

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:31 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:29 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:25 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:



https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent
sections, but the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not
become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between
wooden sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then
go over with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark
(rosewood colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist
movement and will not fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like
the best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

Would it be possible for you to use www.tinypic.com to post the pics, as
I avoid (and probably many others do as well) google like the plague
where possible?

Their T&Cs are not to my liking in the way that they share information
around all their programs.

Cash

You don;t need to log in with the link I gave - but if the cookies bother
you, hold on...



Here's the worst one:

http://tinypic.com/r/fm3vbs/5


I don't think that worked.

Bugger it. Here's a public flickr link - I *know* that works!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timjwatts/9301067673/


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:31 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:29 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 21:25 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:



https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent
sections, but the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not
become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between
wooden sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then
go over with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark
(rosewood colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist
movement and will not fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like
the best idea.

Cheers!

Tim

Would it be possible for you to use www.tinypic.com to post the pics,
as
I avoid (and probably many others do as well) google like the plague
where possible?

Their T&Cs are not to my liking in the way that they share information
around all their programs.

Cash

You don;t need to log in with the link I gave - but if the cookies
bother
you, hold on...



Here's the worst one:

http://tinypic.com/r/fm3vbs/5


I don't think that worked.

Bugger it. Here's a public flickr link - I *know* that works!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timjwatts/9301067673/


FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used
before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood fillers
by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but
they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used
before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood fillers
by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but
they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

which I have just been using on similar gaps

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:26 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

which I have just been using on similar gaps

Ah - looks interesting - thanks for the link

Did you paint or stain it?


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:34:17 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:26 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

which I have just been using on similar gaps

Ah - looks interesting - thanks for the link

Did you paint or stain it?

Seems a bit odd using _car_ body filler for wood.

Yes I know some old car bits are/were wooden, but I'd have thought
that in those circumstances one would want to use real wood for
repair/restoration.

--
Frank Erskine

On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used
before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood fillers
by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I have used a number of two part wood fillers. All have been very good
(in reality not that different from car body filler except a more
pleasing colour). Good for window repairs that are going to be over
painted.

For ones that are to be varnished, I would be more tempted to attack
with a multimaster to chop out the rotten sections, and then scarf in
new wood (bedded on aforementioned filler).

I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but
they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/07/2013 22:26, newshound wrote:
On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used
before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood
fillers
by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but
they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

Everbuild do a wood coloured one that is good and fairly cheap.

Like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350700861517


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 03:59 John Rumm wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used
before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood
fillers by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I have used a number of two part wood fillers. All have been very good
(in reality not that different from car body filler except a more
pleasing colour). Good for window repairs that are going to be over
painted.

For ones that are to be varnished, I would be more tempted to attack
with a multimaster to chop out the rotten sections, and then scarf in
new wood (bedded on aforementioned filler).


That's a possible approach - I have some scrap wood that is something semi
decent.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 04:01 John Rumm wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 16/07/2013 22:26, newshound wrote:
On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:

FWIW, all the links worked just fine.
I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.
I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.


Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...

Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have
used before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part
wood fillers
by Ronseal.

Anyone used them?

I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but
they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

Everbuild do a wood coloured one that is good and fairly cheap.

Like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350700861517



Thanks John, that looks like a good price
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
https://plus.google.com/photos/10680...=CPqXzua-0bef-
gE

(That's 4 pictures of my wooden window frames, with aluminium windows
fitted).

The first picture is the worst - 1/4" gaps between the woodent sections,
but
the wood is fairly hard around the gap - it has not become wholesale rot.

The last picture is near perfect, but still has some gaps between wooden
sections that let water in.

Now it's hot and dry, I want to harden the wood, fill the gaps then go
over
with Sadolin woodstain.

Hardening the wood - wood hardener - that's easy.


But what to fill the gaps with that will look OK under a dark (rosewood
colour) woodstain. Which keep water out, will resist movement and will not
fall out?


Any ideas most welcome...


I was wondering about brown frame sealer - but it does not feel like the
best idea.


You are likely on a hiding to nothing. Any repaurs you do will only be
temporary.
Ideally chuck them out and get some uPVC ones.
Save on the heating bill.
You can buy and fit your own & avoid a massive bill.

Most of the problem is likely caused by condensation.
There's probably a lot of hidden rot too.

On Wednesday 17 July 2013 08:13 harryagain wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You are likely on a hiding to nothing. Any repaurs you do will only be
temporary.

Maybe - such is the nature of wood...

Ideally chuck them out and get some uPVC ones.

Why? I have DG ali units in there (with a thermal break in the frame) which
are not far off modern uPVC units for U values. I've already done the calcs.

Save on the heating bill.

Seeing as these are load bearing bays and I would insist on rosewood finish
uPVC, the cost would be enormous and the payback time probably longer than I
will live.

You can buy and fit your own & avoid a massive bill.

Yes - have done that for a few old windows.

Most of the problem is likely caused by condensation.

One the outside?

There's probably a lot of hidden rot too.

Doesn;t seem to be - poked it...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 17/07/2013 00:58, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:34:17 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:26 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:

No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649

which I have just been using on similar gaps

Ah - looks interesting - thanks for the link

Did you paint or stain it?

Seems a bit odd using _car_ body filler for wood.

Yes I know some old car bits are/were wooden, but I'd have thought
that in those circumstances one would want to use real wood for
repair/restoration.

The Ronseal stuff is mineral-filled polyester too.

I've only ever painted car body filler although you should be able to
tint it with a spirit-based wood dye (before adding the hardener).

The point is, provided you are reasonably sure you have prevented
further rot this stuff can be used to fill quite large, irregular gaps,
and will stick well to the existing wood, and also is easy to shape,
particularly before it is fully cured, to fake an existing profile. It
lets you make a lasting repair for a fraction of the effort of a proper
carpentry fix. If you try to do something similar with "Pollyfilla" type
water-based products they don't work because they shrink, crack, and
don't stick.

On 17/07/2013 04:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/07/2013 22:26, newshound wrote:


No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649


Everbuild do a wood coloured one that is good and fairly cheap.

Like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350700861517


370 gm for £14 against 3.5 litres for £20; OK if you need the wood
colour and small quantities.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26:26 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:



FWIW, all the links worked just fine.

I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.

I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.





Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...



Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used

before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood fillers

by Ronseal.



Anyone used them?



I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but

they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.



No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649



which I have just been using on similar gaps

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it fell out fairly quickly.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 2:28:19 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26:26 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:

On 16/07/2013 22:10, Tim Watts wrote:



On Tuesday 16 July 2013 22:01 Richard wrote in uk.d-i-y:







FWIW, all the links worked just fine.



I don't know how to fix the problem with the frames.



I'm going to crawl off and die having visited Google.











Weird - the tinypic did not work for me...







Back on topic - while looking for Ronseal WoodHardener (which I have used



before, or something very similar), I noticed a range fo 2 part wood fillers



by Ronseal.







Anyone used them?







I'm not sure if they'd be very easy to deal with the long thin gaps, but



they look like a possibility for the lumpy holes.







No, but *very* much cheaper is something like this







http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1808357137... 4.m1439.l2649







which I have just been using on similar gaps



I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it fell out fairly quickly.

+1

I had more lasting success letting in new wood and using plenty of gorilla glue (painted properly afterwards to mitigate UV probs)

Also body filler etc took me a lot of time whittling to get to a suitable smooth "paint ready" profile. Wood is somewhat quicker overall.

Jim K

On 17/07/2013 21:36, Jim K wrote:


Also body filler etc took me a lot of time whittling to get to a
suitable smooth "paint ready" profile. Wood is somewhat quicker
overall.

IME the two part wood fillers are quite easy to sand - from memory, much
more so than the car version (but to be fair I have not used that in
anger in years)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.


IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't any
further movement

On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.


IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't
any further movement

Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.

E.g. I couldn't shut the e garden gate yesterday - the wooden rails had
shrunk enough to pull the latch post just too far for the latch to work :-)

for sealing frames, you need - FRAME SEALER. a sort or rubbery mastic
that is flexible enough not to crack and available in suitable colours.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Thursday 18 July 2013 13:22 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.


IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't
any further movement

Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.

E.g. I couldn't shut the e garden gate yesterday - the wooden rails had
shrunk enough to pull the latch post just too far for the latch to work
:-)

for sealing frames, you need - FRAME SEALER. a sort or rubbery mastic
that is flexible enough not to crack and available in suitable colours.

Aside from the damaged bits (which I will use the various good advice
earlier) - do you reckon, for the long thin gaps between good wood sections
(gaps are about 2mm) - would ramming acrylic frame sealant perhaps be the
best approach?


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 18/07/13 14:03, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 18 July 2013 13:22 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:
I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.

IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't
any further movement
Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.

E.g. I couldn't shut the e garden gate yesterday - the wooden rails had
shrunk enough to pull the latch post just too far for the latch to work
:-)

for sealing frames, you need - FRAME SEALER. a sort or rubbery mastic
that is flexible enough not to crack and available in suitable colours.
Aside from the damaged bits (which I will use the various good advice
earlier) - do you reckon, for the long thin gaps between good wood sections
(gaps are about 2mm) - would ramming acrylic frame sealant perhaps be the
best approach?

yes, though 3-4mm is better...if its exterior woodwork, you wont get a
better time thatn right now with very low external humidity. or a crisp
autumn day.

RH is down around 40% at the moment..




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 18/07/2013 13:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.


IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't
any further movement

Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.



If I say "in my experience", and you say "not so", I guess that makes me
a liar?
The degree to which old timber moves depends on how exposed it is to
airflow. IN MY EXPERIENCE exterior joinery does not significantly
re-expand after filling, I suppose because at least half of it faces the
masonry.

On 18/07/13 16:14, stuart noble wrote:
On 18/07/2013 13:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:

I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with
the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it
fell out fairly quickly.


IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not
getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't
any further movement

Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.



If I say "in my experience", and you say "not so", I guess that makes
me a liar?
The degree to which old timber moves depends on how exposed it is to
airflow. IN MY EXPERIENCE exterior joinery does not significantly
re-expand after filling, I suppose because at least half of it faces
the masonry.

I say not so because in my experience which in a self built timber
house, is not inconsiderable, wood is never stable under changing humidity.

If you have been lucky enough to not have it affect you, fine, but the
text books say exactly what my experience shows. Up to 1% summer to
winter along the grain and maybe 3% across.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:22:42 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/07/2013 21:36, Jim K wrote:





Also body filler etc took me a lot of time whittling to get to a

suitable smooth "paint ready" profile. Wood is somewhat quicker

overall.



IME the two part wood fillers are quite easy to sand - from memory, much

more so than the car version (but to be fair I have not used that in

anger in years)


mmm thinking on I was using rather large amounts of it to rebuild sash winda cills etc 'til i realised I was better off ripping the crappy old ones out and fitting some new oak ones in - problem solved ;)

Jim K

On Thursday 18 July 2013 21:40 Jim K wrote in uk.d-i-y:


mmm thinking on I was using rather large amounts of it to rebuild sash
winda cills etc 'til i realised I was better off ripping the crappy old
ones out and fitting some new oak ones in - problem solved ;)

Jim K

Well, I have the PU glue, the Gorilla glue, the filler on order and some
frame sealant.

And fresh blades for the Fein

I'll tackle each bit as seams best - bigger more mouldy bits will get some
wood spliced in. Smaller bits filled. Gaps sealed.

Next: buy (finally) a nice random orbit sander....

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:57:36 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/07/13 16:14, stuart noble wrote:

On 18/07/2013 13:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/07/13 11:01, stuart noble wrote:



I tried body filler on this type of problem some time back. What with

the wood expanding and contracting under atmospheric conditions it

fell out fairly quickly.





IME there is often an initial shrinkage of the wood, due to its not

getting wet any more. Once that hairline gap is filled, there isn't

any further movement



Not so. wood moves all the time, so a flexible filler is a must.







If I say "in my experience", and you say "not so", I guess that makes

me a liar?

The degree to which old timber moves depends on how exposed it is to

airflow. IN MY EXPERIENCE exterior joinery does not significantly

re-expand after filling, I suppose because at least half of it faces

the masonry.



I say not so because in my experience which in a self built timber

house, is not inconsiderable, wood is never stable under changing humidity.



If you have been lucky enough to not have it affect you, fine, but the

text books say exactly what my experience shows. Up to 1% summer to

winter along the grain and maybe 3% across.





--

Ineptocracy



(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Wood expansion generally occurs across the grain. It is also dependent on the grain structure on the cross section. (Quarter sawn boards being the most stable)So it appears possible that you are both right.

Anyway in my experience the filler fell out and where it didn't fall out gaps appeared.YMMV

On 18/07/2013 23:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 18 July 2013 21:40 Jim K wrote in uk.d-i-y:


mmm thinking on I was using rather large amounts of it to rebuild sash
winda cills etc 'til i realised I was better off ripping the crappy old
ones out and fitting some new oak ones in - problem solved ;)

Jim K

Well, I have the PU glue, the Gorilla glue, the filler on order and some
frame sealant.

And fresh blades for the Fein

I'll tackle each bit as seams best - bigger more mouldy bits will get some
wood spliced in. Smaller bits filled. Gaps sealed.

I did a mate's windows which were a mixture of sound wood and the
occasional soggy mushy bit. I found the carbide rasp in the Fein riped
away at the soggy stuff until down to solid wood - it was then an easy
job to fill.

Next: buy (finally) a nice random orbit sander....

I wonder whether I should get a better one (got a Bosch PEX400 at the
mo). What have you been looking at?

(although for windows, I expect the fein will be more useful in the
sanding department)

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Friday 19 July 2013 20:03 John Rumm wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 18/07/2013 23:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 18 July 2013 21:40 Jim K wrote in uk.d-i-y:


mmm thinking on I was using rather large amounts of it to rebuild sash
winda cills etc 'til i realised I was better off ripping the crappy old
ones out and fitting some new oak ones in - problem solved ;)

Jim K

Well, I have the PU glue, the Gorilla glue, the filler on order and some
frame sealant.

And fresh blades for the Fein

I'll tackle each bit as seams best - bigger more mouldy bits will get
some wood spliced in. Smaller bits filled. Gaps sealed.

I did a mate's windows which were a mixture of sound wood and the
occasional soggy mushy bit. I found the carbide rasp in the Fein riped
away at the soggy stuff until down to solid wood - it was then an easy
job to fill.


That's an idea - I will try that.


Next: buy (finally) a nice random orbit sander....

I wonder whether I should get a better one (got a Bosch PEX400 at the
mo). What have you been looking at?

The PEX400 based on your recommendation from a while back ;-


(although for windows, I expect the fein will be more useful in the
sanding department)


My frames have no mouldings (thank god) and are large areas of flatness
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 19/07/2013 21:01, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 19 July 2013 20:03 John Rumm wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 18/07/2013 23:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 18 July 2013 21:40 Jim K wrote in uk.d-i-y:


mmm thinking on I was using rather large amounts of it to rebuild sash
winda cills etc 'til i realised I was better off ripping the crappy old
ones out and fitting some new oak ones in - problem solved ;)

Jim K

Well, I have the PU glue, the Gorilla glue, the filler on order and some
frame sealant.

And fresh blades for the Fein

I'll tackle each bit as seams best - bigger more mouldy bits will get
some wood spliced in. Smaller bits filled. Gaps sealed.

I did a mate's windows which were a mixture of sound wood and the
occasional soggy mushy bit. I found the carbide rasp in the Fein riped
away at the soggy stuff until down to solid wood - it was then an easy
job to fill.


That's an idea - I will try that.


Next: buy (finally) a nice random orbit sander....

I wonder whether I should get a better one (got a Bosch PEX400 at the
mo). What have you been looking at?

The PEX400 based on your recommendation from a while back ;-

Its certainly "ok" - although some of the time I think it might be nice
to have a 4" version for furniture projects. The main thing that seems
to improve on better ones is vibration control.

(although for windows, I expect the fein will be more useful in the
sanding department)


My frames have no mouldings (thank god) and are large areas of flatness

Yup, that does help.

The PEX is very good on that sort of stuff - stick a 40 or 60 grit on it
to start with, and use a relatively low speed (say 2 ish) and it hogs
off old finish and stuff nicely. If you work down through the grits
doing the bulk of the work with the coarse one, then just using the next
each time to clean up the scratch marks from the previous grit.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/