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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads. I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything they do) Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this? I can think of a few.... Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then unfused. They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just having them fused in the plug. They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4 ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse! Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded with suspiscion (and why)? TIA Chris |
#2
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Chris Holmes :
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains Blocks/Leads. Ask him/her for their evidence. -- Mike Barnes |
#3
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On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:26:26 AM UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains Blocks/Leads. I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything they do) Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this? I can think of a few.... Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then unfused. They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just having them fused in the plug. They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4 ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse! Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded with suspiscion (and why)? TIA Chris If they're on a lead with a fused plug, there is no safety difference whether the socket is fused or not. If they're wired direct to the ring circuit, there are a few problems. Their max total rating is 13A total, which is easily exceeded with 4 sockets. A quad socket on a spur can overload the spur cable. The plastic is not necessarily able to contain a minor fire. Most things are driven by profit - at your expense NT |
#4
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In article ,
Chris Holmes writes: At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains Blocks/Leads. I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything they do) Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this? I can think of a few.... Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then unfused. They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just having them fused in the plug. They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4 ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse! Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded with suspiscion (and why)? I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363, and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363. If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_ the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks. I don't have BS1363 though (I did have some parts of it once, but I can't find them now). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#5
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In article
, Chris Holmes wrote: At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains Blocks/Leads. He's simply got a bee in his bonnet. Ask him what electrical qualifications he has to come to this conclusion. -- *HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CIVIL WAR? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#6
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In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote: I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363, and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363. I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug? If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_ the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks. Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on 4+ way ones. I don't have BS1363 though (I did have some parts of it once, but I can't find them now). -- *What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#7
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In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363, and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363. I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug? If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_ the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks. Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on 4+ way ones. Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform? -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#9
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On 20/02/2013 15:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd not say fused ones are any better made an unfused ones, though the unfused are probably now quite old as I've not seen them on sale for some time. Unfused ones (i.e. ones with no additional fuse in the socket itself) are commonly and widely available. They probably make up the bulk of the ones on sale I would estimate. The way the bent bits of metal and rod only connect really well when you shove plugs in seem to be very poor to me and most seem to be made this way. Indeed - they are not quality items. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#10
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In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote: Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on 4+ way ones. Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform? It seemed to be a 'what if' post. Causally glancing at some various 4 way extension leads hanging in this workshop - no idea where they came from - finds them all marked BS 1363/A -- *We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#11
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:01:57 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd not say fused ones are any better made an unfused ones, though the unfused are probably now quite old as I've not seen them on sale for some time. Well you wouldn't would you. B-) Bought several 4 way, unfused at the socket, extension leads last year. Looked at one earlier marked BS1363/A (might have been B). It also states it is non-rewireable and a maximum load of 10A. I wonder if the plug top fuse is 10A... -- Cheers Dave. |
#12
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![]() "Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363, and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363. I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug? If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_ the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks. Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on 4+ way ones. Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform? It is most likely they do, just because there isnt any point in them not conforming just because BS1363 doesn't mention 4+ way ones. |
#13
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En el artículo , John
Rumm escribió: Indeed - they are not quality items. Time for a repost of this :-) http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg Kwality... -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#14
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On 23/02/2013 09:19, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , John Rumm escribió: Indeed - they are not quality items. Time for a repost of this :-) http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg Kwality... Yes, but it has probably failed *safe*, hasn't it, even if it wasn't protected by an RCD. The only real risk is if it was located where it was insulated by flammable material. -- For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat, and wrong. H L Menken |
#15
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 21:40:26 +0000, newshound wrote:
http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg Kwality... Yes, but it has probably failed *safe*, hasn't it, even if it wasn't protected by an RCD. The only real risk is if it was located where it was insulated by flammable material. But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine. What has let out lots of magic black smoke are a couple of electrical components, probably MOVs used as "surge arrestors". -- Cheers Dave. |
#16
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En el artículo o.uk,
Dave Liquorice escribió: But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine. The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that. -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#17
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:41:05 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine. The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that. How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A. -- Cheers Dave. |
#18
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Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:41:05 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote: But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine. The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that. How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A. But they're brass rather than copper, so you'd need 2x to 4x the csa. |
#19
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:41:34 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that. How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A. But they're brass rather than copper, so you'd need 2x to 4x the csa. 1 mm^2 copper T&E is rated at 14 A (thought it was a tad higher) so 2 mm^2 of brass is a similar ball park. -- Cheers Dave. |
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