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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.

I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from
facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything
they do)

Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this?

I can think of a few....

Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then
unfused.

They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long
cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just
having them fused in the plug.

They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4
ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse!

Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded
with suspiscion (and why)?

TIA

Chris
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

Chris Holmes :
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.


Ask him/her for their evidence.

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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:26:26 AM UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:

At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.
I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from
facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything
they do)
Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this?
I can think of a few....
Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then
unfused.
They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long
cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just
having them fused in the plug.
They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4
ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse!
Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded
with suspiscion (and why)?
TIA
Chris


If they're on a lead with a fused plug, there is no safety difference whether the socket is fused or not.

If they're wired direct to the ring circuit, there are a few problems. Their max total rating is 13A total, which is easily exceeded with 4 sockets. A quad socket on a spur can overload the spur cable. The plastic is not necessarily able to contain a minor fire.

Most things are driven by profit - at your expense


NT
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

In article ,
Chris Holmes writes:
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.

I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from
facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything
they do)

Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this?

I can think of a few....

Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then
unfused.

They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long
cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just
having them fused in the plug.

They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4
ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse!

Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded
with suspiscion (and why)?


I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363,
and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters
and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't
require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363.

If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been
manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or
import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't
conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good
enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant
when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_
the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been
cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong
with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks.

I don't have BS1363 though (I did have some parts of it once, but I
can't find them now).

--
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

In article
,
Chris Holmes wrote:
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.


He's simply got a bee in his bonnet. Ask him what electrical
qualifications he has to come to this conclusion.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363,
and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters
and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't
require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363.


I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp
socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug?

If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been
manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or
import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't
conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good
enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant
when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_
the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been
cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong
with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks.


Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension
lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never
seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on
4+ way ones.

I don't have BS1363 though (I did have some parts of it once, but I
can't find them now).


--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363,
and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters
and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't
require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363.


I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp
socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug?

If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been
manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or
import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't
conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good
enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant
when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_
the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been
cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong
with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks.


Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension
lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never
seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough on
4+ way ones.


Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't
come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't
conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A
fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

I'd not say fused ones are any better made an unfused ones, though the
unfused are probably now quite old as I've not seen them on sale for some
time. The way the bent bits of metal and rod only connect really well when
you shove plugs in seem to be very poor to me and most seem to be made this
way.

Brian

--
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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Chris Holmes" wrote in message
...
At work the Fire Officer is having a clampdown on Unfused 4 Way Mains
Blocks/Leads.

I presume this is following advice either from his "industry" or from
facilities (a separate company who charge us loadsamoney for anything
they do)

Any ideas what the rationale might be behind this?

I can think of a few....

Perhaps they feel that in general fused 4 ways are better quality then
unfused.

They feel that having a fuse at the outlet end of a 4 way on a long
cable (most of ours are 2 metres) might blow / blow faster than just
having them fused in the plug.

They feel that supplying us with a load of good quality (expensive) 4
ways at a premium, is a major contribution to their new greenhouse!

Any ideas as to whether these unfused 4 ways are generally regarded
with suspiscion (and why)?

TIA

Chris



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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On 20/02/2013 15:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd not say fused ones are any better made an unfused ones, though the
unfused are probably now quite old as I've not seen them on sale for some
time.


Unfused ones (i.e. ones with no additional fuse in the socket itself)
are commonly and widely available. They probably make up the bulk of the
ones on sale I would estimate.

The way the bent bits of metal and rod only connect really well when
you shove plugs in seem to be very poor to me and most seem to be made this
way.


Indeed - they are not quality items.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension
lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've
never seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common
enough on 4+ way ones.


Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't
come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't
conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A
fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform?


It seemed to be a 'what if' post.

Causally glancing at some various 4 way extension leads hanging in this
workshop - no idea where they came from - finds them all marked BS 1363/A

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:01:57 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd not say fused ones are any better made an unfused ones, though the
unfused are probably now quite old as I've not seen them on sale for
some time.


Well you wouldn't would you. B-)

Bought several 4 way, unfused at the socket, extension leads last year.
Looked at one earlier marked BS1363/A (might have been B). It also states
it is non-rewireable and a maximum load of 10A. I wonder if the plug top
fuse is 10A...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?



"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I would guess that a 4-way socket is not explicitly covered by BS1363,
and therefore it needs a fuse to be legal (same as for 3-way adapters
and 3-way socket outlets). Double sockets and 2-way adapters don't
require a fuse, because they're explicitly covered by BS1363.


I'm assuming it is a four way outlet on a flex plugged into a 13 amp
socket, so protected by the fuse in the plug?

If this is the case, then 4-way sockets without fuses haven't been
manufactured to BS1363 (which makes them illegal to manufacture or
import), and there will be other aspects of them which don't
conform, and they haven't been properly tested. That's a good
enough reason not to use them, even though that fuse is redundant
when made up into an extention lead with a fused plug on it, _if_
the plug and fuse conform to BS1363 and BS1362. There have been
cases of this in the past where there was also something wrong
with the mains flexes used by the socket blocks.


Any rational which said the outlet on what is essentially an extension
lead would surely apply regardless of the number of ways? And I've never
seen a single flex outlet with a fuse - although they are common enough
on
4+ way ones.


Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote, or my message didn't
come across, but at the most basic level, if the socket doesn't
conform to BS1363, what makes you think the lead, plug, and 13A
fuse (if it has one) which you seem to be relying on instead conform?


It is most likely they do, just because there isnt any point in
them not conforming just because BS1363 doesn't mention
4+ way ones.

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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

En el artículo , John
Rumm escribió:

Indeed - they are not quality items.


Time for a repost of this :-)

http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg

Kwality...

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On 23/02/2013 09:19, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , John
Rumm escribió:

Indeed - they are not quality items.


Time for a repost of this :-)

http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg

Kwality...


Yes, but it has probably failed *safe*, hasn't it, even if it wasn't
protected by an RCD. The only real risk is if it was located where it
was insulated by flammable material.

--
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and wrong.
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 21:40:26 +0000, newshound wrote:

http://jasper.org.uk/pics/Boom.jpg

Kwality...


Yes, but it has probably failed *safe*, hasn't it, even if it wasn't
protected by an RCD. The only real risk is if it was located where it
was insulated by flammable material.


But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine.
What has let out lots of magic black smoke are a couple of electrical
components, probably MOVs used as "surge arrestors".

--
Cheers
Dave.





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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

En el artículo o.uk,
Dave Liquorice escribió:

But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look fine.


The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin
and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:41:05 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look
fine.


The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin
and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that.


How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Fused 4 ways good, unfused 4 ways bad?

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:41:05 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

But all the contacts for the plugs into that socket strip all look
fine.


The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very thin
and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that.


How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A.


But they're brass rather than copper, so you'd need 2x to 4x the csa.

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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:41:34 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

The contacts are made up of one long strip of metal which is very
thin and flimsy. I'd be unhappy about pulling 13A through that.


How wide and thick? 4 mm x 0.5mm = 2 mm^2 ample for 13 A.


But they're brass rather than copper, so you'd need 2x to 4x the csa.


1 mm^2 copper T&E is rated at 14 A (thought it was a tad higher) so 2
mm^2 of brass is a similar ball park.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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