Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

How do I know if a tv signal amplifier** will also transmit IR signals
or maybe they are converted IR signals in the opposite direction?
**Like is used to go from a VCR to an distant analog TV, especially if
there were signal-weakening splitters for other tvs in between. I'm
using either Gemini signal amps, or amp/splitters or something that
looks just like them. I want to use my IR remote control and shine
it at a target on the TV, which will then relay the signal back
through the amp and to the PVR or VCR, and allow me to change
channels, for example, from another room.

Do you know either which amps will do this, or how I can test it short
of setting up the whole setup? Or do you know what words describe
what I want, so I can google them?

Tnanks.

Background:
In May UCLAN told me about the Channelplus modulator model 5425 that
would modulate a digital tv signal to any of a 80 or 100 analog
channels, not just channels 3 or 4. No real need to look at it, but
here it is http://www.channelplus.com/product_d...?productId=225

And I was gradually getting ready to buy one when I read that models
5525 and 5545 also will also transmit IR signals back from the TV to
the tuner. And that would help me a lot, but then it occurred to me
that I'd probably have to use Channelplus's amplifier. (That's
another 150 dollars, plus it means installing home runs to every tv,
even the ones whose co-ax is snaked through the basement ceiling, and
the ones whose wires in the attic are now covered with plywood. I'm
25 years older and 50 pounds heavier than when I did this the first
time, and it took a long time then, so I'd like to not do it. Plus I'm
afraid if I enlarge the holes in the floors or ceiling with a 10"
drill bit, I'll drill into the co-ax that is already there.)

So I called Channelplus and asked them if it had to be their amp, and
instead of saying "Yes, it has to be an amp we make", he said it
depended on the voltage and amperage of the amp and they couldn't
guarantee it. That sounds like some will work, but I don't know how
to figure out which one's will.

Do you either know which amps will do this, or know how I can test it
short of setting up the whole setup? Or do you know what words
describe what I want, so I can google them?





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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

How do I know if a tv signal amplifier** will also transmit IR signals
or maybe they are converted IR signals in the opposite direction?


**Like is used to go from a VCR to an distant analog TV, especially
if there were signal-weakening splitters for other tvs in between.


Rather than answering your question directly, I'm going to ask you to think
about what sort of hardware would be required to do that. You can then
figure it out for yourself, and you'll have learned something in the
process.


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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?


"mm" wrote in message
...
How do I know if a tv signal amplifier** will also transmit IR signals
or maybe they are converted IR signals in the opposite direction?
**Like is used to go from a VCR to an distant analog TV, especially if
there were signal-weakening splitters for other tvs in between. I'm
using either Gemini signal amps, or amp/splitters or something that
looks just like them. I want to use my IR remote control and shine
it at a target on the TV, which will then relay the signal back
through the amp and to the PVR or VCR, and allow me to change
channels, for example, from another room.

Do you know either which amps will do this, or how I can test it short
of setting up the whole setup? Or do you know what words describe
what I want, so I can google them?

Tnanks.

Background:
In May UCLAN told me about the Channelplus modulator model 5425 that
would modulate a digital tv signal to any of a 80 or 100 analog
channels, not just channels 3 or 4. No real need to look at it, but
here it is http://www.channelplus.com/product_d...?productId=225

And I was gradually getting ready to buy one when I read that models
5525 and 5545 also will also transmit IR signals back from the TV to
the tuner. And that would help me a lot, but then it occurred to me
that I'd probably have to use Channelplus's amplifier. (That's
another 150 dollars, plus it means installing home runs to every tv,
even the ones whose co-ax is snaked through the basement ceiling, and
the ones whose wires in the attic are now covered with plywood. I'm
25 years older and 50 pounds heavier than when I did this the first
time, and it took a long time then, so I'd like to not do it. Plus I'm
afraid if I enlarge the holes in the floors or ceiling with a 10"
drill bit, I'll drill into the co-ax that is already there.)

So I called Channelplus and asked them if it had to be their amp, and
instead of saying "Yes, it has to be an amp we make", he said it
depended on the voltage and amperage of the amp and they couldn't
guarantee it. That sounds like some will work, but I don't know how
to figure out which one's will.

Do you either know which amps will do this, or know how I can test it
short of setting up the whole setup? Or do you know what words
describe what I want, so I can google them?






What do IR signals have to do with RF amplifiers? Light vs Radio waves... I
don't see the connection. Please enlighten me to what you are trying to do.

Mike


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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

In article ,
Michael Kennedy wrote:

What do IR signals have to do with RF amplifiers? Light vs Radio waves... I
don't see the connection. Please enlighten me to what you are trying to do.


Some video distribution systems allow for "relayed" IR remote control,
from the viewing point back to the signal source (e.g. from a bedroom
TV, back to a DVR or VCR in the living room).

This generally requires an IR receiver at the viewing location, whose
output is then modulated onto a low-level RF signal that is mixed onto
the video distribution coax. At the "sending" end of the video signal
(e.g. living room) the RF signal is tapped out of the coax,
demodulated into a baseband signal, and used to drive an IR LED which
then is "seen" by the remote-control receiver on the device being
controlled. [A somewhat similar trick is used by the infamous X-10
"black pyramid" IR repeater systems, which do a similar IR-RF-IR
repeating trick over the air (and are so prone to pick up RF
interference that they don't work very well and can even block in-room
IR control signals).]

If you try to use this system with an RF distribution amplifier
in-line, it may or may not work, depending on the design of the
distribution amplifier. A simple "downstream-only" RF amplifier (e.g.
one based on a simple MMIC circuit) is likely to have rather high
rejection in the reverse direction - the modulated RF signal from the
IR repeater's receiver will be blocked when it hits the output of the
amp, and won't continue to travel back "upstream" to the source.

Whether it would work, would depend on several things, including the
specific RF frequency being used for IR repeating, and whether the
distribution amp has some sort of "bypass" circuit which allows this
particular frequency to "flow around" the amplifier without being
blocked (or amplified and fed back downstream, which would create a
feedback loop that would surely result in oscillation).

I'd guess that you'd need to buy an IR repeating system, and
amplifier, which were specifically designed to work together in this
way. Most off-the-shelf distribution amps are unidirectional and
probably do not have any sort of duplexing "bypass" circuit in their
design.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?


mm wrote:

Do you either know which amps will do this, or know how I can test it
short of setting up the whole setup? Or do you know what words
describe what I want, so I can google them?



Find datasheets or specifications for each product and read them,
like anyone else has to.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!


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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 04:04:18 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

How do I know if a tv signal amplifier** will also transmit IR signals
or maybe they are converted IR signals in the opposite direction?


**Like is used to go from a VCR to an distant analog TV, especially
if there were signal-weakening splitters for other tvs in between.


Rather than answering your question directly, I'm going to ask you to think
about what sort of hardware would be required to do that. You can then
figure it out for yourself, and you'll have learned something in the
process.


Well, I understand your desire to make this a learning experience for
me**.

I did think about it quite a bit, even before calling the company, and
I couldn't figure out how to do it, which is why I thought his answer
would be No, nothing else works. It occured to me but didn't seem
likely that there were two amps going in the opposite direction, one
for the RF and one for the IR


**Back in 1964, my cousin had turned 80 and he gave me his '50
Oldsmobile. At the same time, he also gave me a 1amp battery
charger. The battery went dead every night, and I had to borrow my
mother's car to get to work. After trying one night (from 5:30 to
10:30 to fix it) I tried to find someplace that had the wiring
diagram, and eventually I did, but he wouldn't lend it to me, or even
show it to me.*** I don't know if that was his real reason, but he
said I needed to do it the hard way and learn something. I spent 4
nights in a row unscrewing connectors and putting them back. For test
equipment, I had only a 110volt lightbulb and an ice pick, to pierce
insulation. One or two days in, I found what I thought was a short
between two wires and was very excited, and maybe it was that I
disconnecting both of them, but the battery still went dead. I
finally figured out that the wires weren't "shorted" but they had a
shunt between them which was connectded to the ammeter, in parallel.
The shunt had low resistance that my 110v lightbulb didn't show. This
may be when I decided I had to have a wiring diagram or I'd never fix
it.

There were no quick connectors then and not very many fuses, so I had
to unscrew wires, and I'd keep disconnnecting things until the test
light showed no continuity. After 4 or 5 disconnects, I got that, and
I figuered the last thing I had disconnected was the problem, but I'd
reconnect it and there would still be no short, and I'd reconnect the
previous thing, and the previous thing and I'd be at the top when
there was a short again. So I'd start disconnecting, probably in a
different order, and still it would take 4 or 5 disconnects to get rid
of the short, and back up again, to the top, and down and back up.

Finally I found the problem. I guess at every critical point, I had
opened the


***(My recollection is that I wanted to make a copy and bring it right
back, although now I can't imagine how I intended to make a copy in
1964. Maybe I was just going to draw a copy.
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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

EVen when holding the remote in my hand, I've noticed
that the Philips DVDR is more picky than the VCR I had.
I have to point it just right to get the DVDR to do anything.


Check the battery in the DVDR remote.


So I'm going to get an emitter that plugs into the
Leapfrog receiver. Maybe that will do it.


I require a supplemental emitter to "hit" the SACD player. The transponder
receiver sits too high.


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Default How do I know if an amp goes both ways?

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 17:36:52 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

EVen when holding the remote in my hand, I've noticed
that the Philips DVDR is more picky than the VCR I had.
I have to point it just right to get the DVDR to do anything.


Check the battery in the DVDR remote.


Thanks. I'm pretty sure it's been that way from the start, and also
when I replaced the battery. But I'll pay closer attention.


So I'm going to get an emitter that plugs into the
Leapfrog receiver. Maybe that will do it.


I require a supplemental emitter to "hit" the SACD player. The transponder
receiver sits too high.


Uh huh. Okay.

Thanks
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