Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon
batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads
but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and
make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a
better choice than NiHM.

What does the panel think? TIA

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

In a fair world you should get a few more AAAs for constant price pack.
I have found the Poundland Kodak ones about the cheapest cheerful ones -
last time I looked £1 for 12 special offer or 8p each.

When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

The electricity to charge them is noise in the general scheme of things
- a 2Ah AA 1.4v cell will recharge about 80 times from 1kWhr of mains.

I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon
batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads
but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and
make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a
better choice than NiHM.

Depends how disciplined you are about using them and keeping them as
sets and charged ready to use. The old NiMH that lost their charge in a
matter of weeks if unused were pretty dire but the latest low self
discharge types are pretty easy to use for 10-50 recharges so long as
you don't have someone throwing them out when they run out of charge.

Some last longer than that. And the odd one dies prematurely. I use a
pretty large selection of rechargeables up to and including D cells.

It is worth using sacrificial cells in places where they may be subject
to serious abuse - like children leaving torches on for days. Being at
zero volts into a dead short for extended periods will kill them.

What does the panel think? TIA

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

On 28/01/2013 15:03, Apellation Controlee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

The no load terminal voltage is lower, but the internal resistance is
also lower so that under a heavy load it more or less balances out.

There are a few devices - my old Kodak DC-120 was one of them that are
tetchy about being used on rechargeable cells as they sense the battery
pack terminal voltage under no load and refuse to switch on!

Using rechargables in cheap flash guns you have to be a little bit
careful as their low internal resistance means that the current draw can
be enough to burn out the step-up transformer if you take a long run of
flash shots one after another.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Apellation Controlee writes:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

NiMH are only a nominal 1.2 volts instead of 1.5, but NiZn are 1.5 if
you can find them.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On 01/02/2013 04:05, Windmill wrote:
Apellation Controlee writes:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

NiMH are only a nominal 1.2 volts instead of 1.5, but NiZn are 1.5 if
you can find them.


So what we really need is a five-battery compartment. Four alkalines or
five lower-voltage rechargeables. 6V whichever you use.

--
Rod

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
On 01/02/2013 04:05, Windmill wrote:
Apellation Controlee writes:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

NiMH are only a nominal 1.2 volts instead of 1.5, but NiZn are 1.5 if
you can find them.


So what we really need is a five-battery compartment. Four alkalines or
five lower-voltage rechargeables. 6V whichever you use.

I did come across a piece of equipment some years ago, that was just like
that. They even provided a dummy cell for you insert if you weren't using
rechargeables. I can't rememebr what it was, though. (20+ years ago)

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 01/02/2013 16:45, polygonum wrote:
On 01/02/2013 04:05, Windmill wrote:
Apellation Controlee writes:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:58:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

Aren't rechargeable batteries lower rated voltage than expendables?

NiMH are only a nominal 1.2 volts instead of 1.5, but NiZn are 1.5 if
you can find them.


So what we really need is a five-battery compartment. Four alkalines or
five lower-voltage rechargeables. 6V whichever you use.


I love the simplistic logic you get on uk.d-i-y.

B0;271;0cOn 2013-01-28, Martin Brown wrote:

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:

I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon
batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads
but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and
make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a
better choice than NiHM.

Depends how disciplined you are about using them and keeping them as
sets and charged ready to use. The old NiMH that lost their charge in a
matter of weeks if unused were pretty dire but the latest low self
discharge types are pretty easy to use for 10-50 recharges so long as
you don't have someone throwing them out when they run out of charge.

Some last longer than that. And the odd one dies prematurely. I use a
pretty large selection of rechargeables up to and including D cells.

It is worth using sacrificial cells in places where they may be subject
to serious abuse - like children leaving torches on for days. Being at
zero volts into a dead short for extended periods will kill them.

What does the panel think? TIA

Generally it is a win to use rechargables when you can, but you always
need a few classical cells in reserve for emergencies.

That's pretty much my experience too. I find by trial & error that
NiMH rechargeables don't work well in a few things (e.g., the Wii
remotes can play up but the battery indicators on the screen don't
indicate they're low), but really not many.

In article ,
Fred wrote:
When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

I use re-chargables in a couple of mouses and keyboards and have recharged
them more times than I can remember. Alkalines do last longer, but I
reckon I'm quids in. I keep spares ready recharged to hand.

--
*Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/01/2013 15:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fred wrote:
When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

I use re-chargables in a couple of mouses and keyboards and have recharged
them more times than I can remember. Alkalines do last longer, but I
reckon I'm quids in. I keep spares ready recharged to hand.

I've certainly given up on re-chargeables, not worth the hassle IMHO,
and adding the re-charger price not that much of a saving.

--
Remember the early bird may catch the worm but the second mouse gets the
cheese.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
On 28/01/2013 15:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fred wrote:
When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

I use re-chargables in a couple of mouses and keyboards and have
recharged
them more times than I can remember. Alkalines do last longer, but I
reckon I'm quids in. I keep spares ready recharged to hand.

I've certainly given up on re-chargeables, not worth the hassle IMHO,

I haven't, particularly with the cordless mouse and
keyboard that need recharging every week or so.

I haven't with the cordless phones either.

and adding the re-charger price not that much of a saving.

It is with those higher consumption devices.

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
I use re-chargables in a couple of mouses and keyboards and have
recharged them more times than I can remember. Alkalines do last
longer, but I reckon I'm quids in. I keep spares ready recharged to
hand.

I've certainly given up on re-chargeables, not worth the hassle IMHO,
and adding the re-charger price not that much of a saving.

The saving here is considerable. Provided I don't charge my time for
changing them. Other thing is I don't suddenly run out of batteries.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
I use re-chargables in a couple of mouses and keyboards and have
recharged them more times than I can remember. Alkalines do last
longer, but I reckon I'm quids in. I keep spares ready recharged to
hand.

I've certainly given up on re-chargeables, not worth the hassle IMHO,
and adding the re-charger price not that much of a saving.

The saving here is considerable. Provided I don't charge my time for
changing them. Other thing is I don't suddenly run out of batteries.


Yeah, I mostly use rechargables nowadays, I've gradually built up a
stock of mostly low self discharge ones, and so find I use them in most
things as they last a decent amount of time even in things like TV
remotes. A decent stock, and having ones that don't lose charge very
quickly when stored charged makes it all easy.
--
Chris French

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:41:11 +0000, Fred wrote:

When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback.

You should get several hundred "uses" from a set of rechargeables...

That's not including the electricity or charger to recharge them.

The decent charger will be just under £20 from Lidl/Aldi.

I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient.

Only you can judge that. A lot depends on how often you need to change
the batteries. There is a nighlight here that gets through a set of 3
AAA's every three days or so. So that's £7.99 every 40 days at your costs
or around £72/year against £23 for a set of NiMH AAA's and charger. The
amount of electricty consumed is well less than a tenner (assuming 10W
24/7 (which it won't be) = 87kWHrs @ 10p/kWHr = £8.70) so call the
rechargeable route £30 first year after that it's £8.70/year for lets say
3 years (121 * 3 = 363 cycles).

Alkaline 3 year cost = 72 * 3 = £216.00
Rechargeable 3 year cost = 20 + 3 + (8.7 *3) = £49.10

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Monday, January 28, 2013 2:41:11 PM UTC, Fred wrote:

Hi,
Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about �7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.
When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were �2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.
I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon
batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads

that's the marketing line. Really they're not well suited to heavy loads, it reduces their capacity heavily, and its heavy loads where nimh win most.


but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and
make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a
better choice than NiHM.

sure, the old zinc carbons work and are cheap. But they're the worst option in terms of capacity per cost. And they leak routinely.


What does the panel think? TIA

Rechargeables: reasonably good AA ones now give similar capacity to alkaline. At £1 a cell lasting say 400 charges that's 0.25p per charge. Alkaline AAs at 17p each are thus 68x the cost.

Where capacity isnt so important, poundland do 1/3 the capacity rechargeables for half the price.


NT

On 28/01/13 14:41, Fred wrote:

When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they
were £2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more
expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to
use them five times to get payback. That's not including the
electricity or charger to recharge them.

I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries
when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon
batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads
but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and
make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a
better choice than NiHM.


For things that are regularly used I think rechargeables are best. The
4AAs in my radio seem to last a couple of weeks between charges and have
been in use for over a year. For my small camera the two AA cells were
fine when recharged after daily use but not suitable to keep in a camera
that may not b used for weeks. Similarly for the GPS, I used
rechargebles when out walking but put alkalines back in when it is stored.


--
djc

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

Probably worth noting that the cheap alkaline batts at CPC are usually
GP branded. I usually find these to be pretty poor compared to real
batteries.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 03:17:18 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

Probably worth noting that the cheap alkaline batts at CPC are usually
GP branded. I usually find these to be pretty poor compared to real
batteries.

Last week I got 24 AA cells from CPC for about £7.70. That's about as low
as I'd go - they were Energizer ones. Duracell Procell are around the
same price. Any cheaper and they're GP, as you say, and not nearly as
good.


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 29/01/2013 07:49, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 03:17:18 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

Probably worth noting that the cheap alkaline batts at CPC are usually
GP branded. I usually find these to be pretty poor compared to real
batteries.

Last week I got 24 AA cells from CPC for about £7.70. That's about as low
as I'd go - they were Energizer ones. Duracell Procell are around the
same price. Any cheaper and they're GP, as you say, and not nearly as
good.

They had some Philips branded ones that I ordered on special last week.
I got 48 AAAs for £7.90 + VAT


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Bob Eager
scribeth thus
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 03:17:18 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

Probably worth noting that the cheap alkaline batts at CPC are usually
GP branded. I usually find these to be pretty poor compared to real
batteries.

Last week I got 24 AA cells from CPC for about £7.70. That's about as low
as I'd go - they were Energizer ones. Duracell Procell are around the
same price. Any cheaper and they're GP, as you say, and not nearly as
good.



I bought a box of 40 from Toolstation I'll let you know how they last!..

There're 25 p each. I've also used them for button cells CR2000 type for
computers and lead acid's for alarm panels and the like...

Doesn't seem to be much they don't do these days;!...


http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec...Life+Alkaline+
Battery+AA/d190/sd2450/p51998
--
Tony Sayer

On 2013-01-29, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/01/2013 14:41, Fred wrote:
Hi,

Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited
and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait
forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about £7.
They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out
about 17p per battery.

Probably worth noting that the cheap alkaline batts at CPC are usually
GP branded. I usually find these to be pretty poor compared to real
batteries.

TBH, I've been buying Maplin's own brand of AAs & AAAs when they're on
sale, with what I feel are reasonable results; but as a result of
previous discussion here I'm going to keep an eye out for
low-self-discharge ones at Aldi/Lidl & try them next.

On Monday, January 28, 2013 2:41:11 PM UTC, Fred wrote:
Hi,



Before Christmas I bought lots of toys that needed batteries. I waited

and waited for Lidl to do an offer on rechargeables but could not wait

forever so I bought a pack of 40 alkaline AAs from CPC for about �7.

They also sell 40 AAA for about the same price. I think that works out

about 17p per battery.



When Lidl sold their NiMH batteries a few weeks later, I think they

were �2.99 for 4, which I think makes them about five times more

expensive than the CPC alkalines, or in other words, I would have to

use them five times to get payback. That's not including the

electricity or charger to recharge them.



I just wonder whether it is worth the hassle of recharging batteries

when alkalines seem so cheap and convenient. CPC also sell zinc carbon

batteries for even less. I know alkaline is for more heavy duty loads

but I wonder if Zinc carbon would be enough to flash a few lights and

make a few sounds on children's toys. If so, they would seem to be a

better choice than NiHM.



What does the panel think? TIA


I'd suggest you look at the toys themselves unless they have an option or a setting for recharbles then it's unlikely recharables would be a good idea, some cheap toys might not work for very long due to the lower voltage 1.2V compared teh 1.5V alkaline and that can make quite a differnce with 4 cells or more. I've had cheap LED torches that work well with Alkaline batteries but quickly fail when useing recharbles as those £1 shop torches use the relatively high intenal resistance of alkaline cells to current limit. When usoing recharables they get rather warm and tend to stop woring after an hour or so and it's not the batteries that 'die' the LEDS do .


If a product is designed for recharbles I tend to think and from expeienece that they are a good idea and well worth while, but putting rechargable batteries in equipemtn not designed for them isn't a good idea.

I have a fujifinepix camera HCS10 that takes both types but you need to set that on the camera, not tried setting the wrong ones yet for obvious reasons :-)

On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:11:29 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

I'd suggest you look at the toys themselves unless they have an option or a setting for recharbles then it's unlikely recharables would be a good idea, some cheap toys might not work for very long due to the lower voltage 1..2V compared teh 1.5V alkaline and that can make quite a differnce with 4 cells or more. I've had cheap LED torches that work well with Alkaline batteries but quickly fail when useing recharbles as those £1 shop torches use the relatively high intenal resistance of alkaline cells to current limit. When usoing recharables they get rather warm and tend to stop woring after an hour or so and it's not the batteries that 'die' the LEDS do .
If a product is designed for recharbles I tend to think and from expeienece that they are a good idea and well worth while, but putting rechargable batteries in equipemtn not designed for them isn't a good idea.
I have a fujifinepix camera HCS10 that takes both types but you need to set that on the camera, not tried setting the wrong ones yet for obvious reasons :-)

It tends to be low end products can't use rechargeables these days, plus some goods designed before they became common.

If you change the camera setting it just reads the remaining charge wrong. But since it does that anyway with NiMH its of no consequence.


NT