In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Despite doing all the legwork for them (and my work was service based
and did not contain many lines) all the savings they achieved were
mysteriously offset by their rather non small fees. And then some.

And they still made mistakes.

This was a small firm - not a bloke operating out of his bedroom.

Quite the reverse of my experience. My accountant was a one man band
operating out of a house, partially converted into offices.

He knew my business (broadcasting) better than anyone else I could find,
and used this knowledge to get the best (for me) from the ILR. Worth every
penny - which wasn't many. He was also used by many of my colleagues, who
had the same opinion of him.

--
*I didn't like my beard at first. Then it grew on me.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent -
right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts, and yes, that *is*
the truth -

Didn't know haircuts were an allowable expense for the self employed.
Wonder if I can submit a retrospective claim?

Derrrr ... It wasn't about claiming against haircuts. It was about adding
up the total cost of his lifestyle, and setting it against what his tax
return claimed he was earning ...

Arfa



--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan 2013,
Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent - right
down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?
--
Roland Perry


Obviously, no one here understands the implications of being investigated by
the Revenue. See my reply to Dave Plowman, above ...

Arfa

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:59:41 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that didn't
offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".

--
Cheers
Dave.



Ah, someone who *does* understand ...

Arfa

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:59:41 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

Quite.

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that
didn't offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".

I'd say it unreasonable to expect a self employed type - like a builder -
to keep such receipts anyway. Not that I've ever been given a receipt
after having my hair cut. They're usually self employed too. ;-)

And so you begin to understand the apparent nightmare - lasting months, and
including Spanish Inquisition-style interviews, that being investigated by
them, is ...

Arfa


--
*Venison for dinner again? Oh deer!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.


Yes, that's exactly it ...

Arfa

On 26/01/13 16:49, A.Lee wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21064030
quote
The Italian authorities have been accused of resorting to police
state-style tactics with the introduction of a new weapon to hunt down
the nation's many tax dodgers.

The new procedure makes it possible to scrutinise any family's spending
pattern, and compare this with what it says it earns.
/quote

--
djc

On 26 Jan, 14:45, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...

On 26 Jan, 11:01, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I'd agree that an accountant is totally unnecessary at that level.
Money

I think that a decent accountant is worth his weight.

I know two people - one had a small shop, and the other was a jobbing
builder - who did not employ an accountant.

Were they both sub 20K turnover in today's money? If not, what point
are you trying to make?

MBQ

It makes no difference whether they were sub 20k or not.

It does to the OP and that's who (and only who) the advice was aimed
at. For sub-20K it's not worth paying an accountant if you have half a
brain.

MBQ

On 26/01/2013 16:49, A.Lee wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.

They also have a good idea, or so they say, on how much a business of
whatever ilk and whatever size should bring in each year. Lodge figures
that vary from their norm and you're on the way to questions being asked.

--
F

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
snip
But for me, the strongest thing in favour of employing one, is that it
gives your figures pretty much total credibility with the Revenue, and if
in the unlikely event they do decide to investigate you, you have a person
at the interviews with you, fighting your corner (my accountant has a
small annual insurance policy that I pay to cover this).

I know two people - one had a small shop, and the other was a jobbing
builder - who did not employ an accountant. Both were investigated at
random by the Revenue, and had their lives made a total misery for months.
In the end, they found nothing wrong with the shopkeeper, and he didn't
even get an apology. The builder got 'fined' thousands by them, which he
disputes to this day. It virtually put him out of business. He has since
stopped taking on any 'projects' where he manages getting trades in, and
instead sticks to building garden walls and the like. What a waste ...

I think the revenue rightly suspect builders are not fully accounting for
cash payments for extension work where 20% VAT is applicable.

And it would be interesting to know how many of them who do use
an accountant have never had the revenue monster them like that.

Corse its easier when they do to have an accountant that can tell them
to **** off when they try something they know they cant get away with.

djc wrote:
On 26/01/13 16:49, A.Lee wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21064030
quote
The Italian authorities have been accused of resorting to police
state-style tactics with the introduction of a new weapon to hunt down
the nation's many tax dodgers.

The new procedure makes it possible to scrutinise any family's spending
pattern, and compare this with what it says it earns.
/quote

Hardly new. Every adult in Italy has to have a "Codice Fiscale". This is,
in effect, a personal VAT number. Every time you make a significant
purchase or employ a tradesman you must give your CF and this is recorded
on the invoice.

This system has been in place for at least 12 years.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 26/01/2013 15:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:59:41 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that didn't
offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".


Sparky mate of mine, who was on the fiddle, got a spin from HMRC.

They wanted details of how many Xmas/birthday presents he bought his
grand kids, how much he spent on breakfast & a paper, how many pints a
week he drank, what he had for lunch, did he eat sweets - every single
penny he spent.

They then back calculate to see if you could do that on the income you
declare.

Guilty until proven innocent with the tax man.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

I'd say it unreasonable to expect a self employed type - like a builder -
to keep such receipts anyway. Not that I've ever been given a receipt
after having my hair cut. They're usually self employed too. ;-)

And so you begin to understand the apparent nightmare - lasting months, and
including Spanish Inquisition-style interviews, that being investigated by
them, is ...

Arfa


Someone I know had this happen after his useless accountant cocked
something up. They went into the childrens piggy banks and investigated
everything, absolutely everything, and in the end after some months of
absolute grief for him and his wife they ....



Refunded him the grand total of 6 pence;!!!....

--
Tony Sayer

"Nick" wrote in message
...
In message , tim.....
writes


Of course, if you are too lazy to do that research then just pay the
account's fee,

My accountant sets his £250 against my tax bill as a business expense.

Still costs you more when using one that doing it yourself.

Unless he's unique, why would anyone bother doing it themselves and take
the risk of making a mistake?

Because they save the entire £250 and not just part of that.

F news@nowhere wrote:

On 26/01/2013 16:49, A.Lee wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.

They also have a good idea, or so they say, on how much a business of
whatever ilk and whatever size should bring in each year. Lodge figures
that vary from their norm and you're on the way to questions being asked.

Yes. My window cleaner was dragged in to account for his income. They
didnt believe he earned so little, his (true) excuse was he didnt need
to earn much, as the house was paid for, his wife has a part time job,
so all he needed were basic living expenses.
This cut no ice with them, and they demanded £2000.
In the end, he had to pay £1000, or go to Court. He paid, but was very
bitter about it, and said he would be doing far more cash work now, and
not declaring it.
He later found out he was the lowest earning window cleaner in the
region, and, he had used an accountant to prepare his return. The IR
were suspicious, and thought he was avoiding tax, not believing that he
was not able to do it himself, or use a computer (he doesnt).
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent -
right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts, and yes, that *is*
the truth -

Didn't know haircuts were an allowable expense for the self employed.

Its more likely they were attempting to work out all his costs,
not just the allowable expense ones, to try to see if what he
had said was the amount he received was likely to be the
same as what he had actually received cash wise for the work
he claimed to have done.

Wonder if I can submit a retrospective claim?

Corse you can, and get an obscene gesture in your general direction when you
do.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan 2013,
Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent - right
down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

No one said they were.

Most likely they were attempting to calculate his total outgoings
so they could decide if what he claimed he had received from
his customers in cash was understated or not.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:59:41 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

Quite.

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that
didn't offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".

I'd say it unreasonable to expect a self employed type - like a builder -
to keep such receipts anyway.

He never said anything about keeping such receipts.

They were likely just asking him to say what he
usually paid and how often he usually got one etc.

Not that I've ever been given a receipt after having
my hair cut. They're usually self employed too. ;-)

When it isnt deductible, its most likely they just asked
for estimates of the stuff they couldn’t see from his
other stuff they could see like the grocerys paid for
using a card etc.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, at
15:25:23 on Sat, 26 Jan 2013, Dave Liquorice
remarked:
Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

If barristers can't get their court clothes tax deductible, I'm not sure a
TV presenter can argue their haircuts are.

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that didn't
offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".

Boggle. How did they even know he was paying for haircuts, without
receipts?

Presumably because he told them that he was.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:59:41 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

For a builder not, for a TV presenter...

Quite.

It would have been the revenue looking for spending of income that
didn't offically exist. ie spending the earnings from "cash jobs".

I'd say it unreasonable to expect a self employed type - like a builder -
to keep such receipts anyway. Not that I've ever been given a receipt
after having my hair cut. They're usually self employed too. ;-)

And so you begin to understand the apparent nightmare - lasting months,
and including Spanish Inquisition-style interviews, that being
investigated by them, is ...

But its very far from clear that using an accountant means that
that can never happen to you if yours is an operation that sees
most of the work paid for with cash.

"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
...
On 26/01/2013 16:49, A.Lee wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:45:38 on Sat, 26 Jan
2013, Arfa Daily remarked:
And just so that everyone understands the level of these
investigations, they had the builder guy accounting for every penny
that he spent - right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts,

Since when were haircuts tax deductible?

They arent, YTC, they work out/estimate how much you spend a year, down
to very small details, like haircuts, how much milk you have delivered a
week etc, add it all up, then see if you are fiddling the books, as you
seemed to have spent £15k this year, yet you only declared a £10k
income.

They also have a good idea, or so they say, on how much a business of
whatever ilk and whatever size should bring in each year.

And that is a reasonable claim given how many returns they get.

Lodge figures that vary from their norm and you're on the way to questions
being asked.

You have to be well away from the norm to get that result.

On 26/01/2013 12:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Ideally you need to find a self employed Tax Accountant rather than go
through an general purpose accountancy firm, the overheads of the latter
push up the fee.

One who works for cash in hand?

In message , at 05:43:36 on Sun, 27
Jan 2013, Rod Speed remarked:

They were likely just asking him to say what he
usually paid and how often he usually got one etc.

"Nothing", and "about once every three months" for me. My wife cuts my
hair, and has done for 25yrs. Before we married I don't think it had
been cut for about five years.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:33:49 on
Sat, 26 Jan 2013, Tim Watts remarked:
Despite doing all the legwork for them (and my work was service based and
did not contain many lines) all the savings they achieved were mysteriously
offset by their rather non small fees. And then some.

My own experience (in the 90's) was no identifiable savings, and yet a
substantial bill. I have no desire to exploit loopholes, and don't think
there are any that would apply to me - having a distaste for various
"offshore" schemes recommended by colleagues.

Since then I've done my own accounting, all very plain and above board.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:09:54 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

Someone I know had this happen after his useless accountant cocked
something up. They went into the children s piggy banks and
investigated everything, absolutely everything, and in the end after
some months of absolute grief for him and his wife they ....



Refunded him the grand total of 6 pence;!!!....

If they ever came knocking on my door I'd just fire up the accounts
program I've been using since 1999 and print out the entire lot. That
data is reconciled with CC and bank statements every month and the CC
slips. I may well still have those statements and they might go back to
1978 when I started work, though I have a feeling I did have a purge a
few years ago and destroyed everything older than 8 years.

I could have a problem with where I spend the odd bit of cash I use
(maybe £20/month on average) but the source is recorded as ATM
withdrawals.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 05:43:36 on Sun, 27 Jan
2013, Rod Speed remarked:

They were likely just asking him to say what he
usually paid and how often he usually got one etc.

"Nothing", and "about once every three months" for me.

Irrelevant to him.

My wife cuts my hair, and has done for 25yrs.

I do my own. No idea how often it is, I do it when it
gets long enough so I have to comb it after a shower.

Before we married I don't think it had been cut for about five years.

I cant be bothered farting around with it anything like that long.

On 26/01/2013 14:45, Arfa Daily wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent -
right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts, and yes, that *is*
the truth - so you can imagine the stress levels that this generated.

I'm self-employed, and don't use an accountant (though I have in the
past), and have always thought that one of these random investigations
would be my worst nightmare.

Every penny of my income is paid by bank transfer or occasionally
cheque, and it's not the sort of business where you'd ever expect cash
payments to be made, ie there's no opportunity for tax evasion even if I
wanted to. My allowable expenses are (sadly!) absolutely minimal too.
I wonder whether I am equally likely to get a random inquisition, or
would I just not look attractive enough as a proposition??

If they pick on you, do they always do the full
'trousers-down-and-bend-over' routine, or do they only go that far if
they're still suspicious after making preliminary enquiries?

--
David

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
Didn't know haircuts were an allowable expense for the self employed.
Wonder if I can submit a retrospective claim?

Derrrr ... It wasn't about claiming against haircuts. It was about
adding up the total cost of his lifestyle, and setting it against what
his tax return claimed he was earning ...

I dunno how many haircuts I have in a year. And I'd say it very
unreasonable for the ILR to expect anyone to remember this sort of thing
accurately.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I'd say it unreasonable to expect a self employed type - like a
builder - to keep such receipts anyway. Not that I've ever been given
a receipt after having my hair cut. They're usually self employed too.
;-)

And so you begin to understand the apparent nightmare - lasting months,
and including Spanish Inquisition-style interviews, that being
investigated by them, is ...

I did have a problem with them after my first few years as self employed
where I'd done my own tax returns.

That's when I found my accountant. He took them to the cleaners, rather
than the other way round...

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
I dunno how many haircuts I have in a year. And I'd say it very
unreasonable for the ILR to expect anyone to remember this sort of
thing accurately.

Since I went over to clipper (very short) cuts, I need to have my hair
cut every five weeks - by then it's starting to feel uncomfortable -
and I do so. Cost here is A$15, £10, and I only have to go downstairs
(street level of my tower is shops)

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:44:35 +0000 Lobster wrote :
I'm self-employed, and don't use an accountant (though I have in the
past), and have always thought that one of these random investigations
would be my worst nightmare.

Every penny of my income is paid by bank transfer or occasionally
cheque, and it's not the sort of business where you'd ever expect cash
payments to be made, ie there's no opportunity for tax evasion even if I
wanted to. My allowable expenses are (sadly!) absolutely minimal too.
I wonder whether I am equally likely to get a random inquisition, or
would I just not look attractive enough as a proposition??

If they pick on you, do they always do the full
'trousers-down-and-bend-over' routine, or do they only go that far if
they're still suspicious after making preliminary enquiries?

In my early days of having my own company (in UK) I got a VAT inspection -
bolshy guy in his 20s who was determined to find something and spent all
morning trying to (there was nothing to find) apart from a few
technicalities like undated VAT invoices from suppliers (their names were
noted for visits!).

Finally he asked me whether I had any audited accounts, which I produced.
After another half hour I was called over and formally cautioned. He then
asked why the accounts showed £28K of sales (this was 1980s) whilst my
first four VAT returns only declared £22K. I politely pointed out that the
first accounts were for a 15 month trading period, whereupon (in the words
of the NoW RIP) he made his excuses and left.

When I did my second degree we had a film on tax inspections, and
apparently the favourite line they follow for businesses to whom it
applies (i.e. not pure services) is to project the expenditure on
purchases on to sales - if you're buying paint by the barrel but show
minimal income from painting, something is going on. The comment was that
people somehow forget to declare income but never forget outgoings!

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

Tony Bryer wrote:

When I did my second degree we had a film on tax inspections, and
apparently the favourite line they follow for businesses to whom it
applies (i.e. not pure services) is to project the expenditure on
purchases on to sales - if you're buying paint by the barrel but show
minimal income from painting, something is going on. The comment was that
people somehow forget to declare income but never forget outgoings!

Locally, a Plumbers Merchants had a 'raid' from the IR/VAT, not for him,
but they wanted details of all his sales, and especially account
customers for the past year.

From that, they picked the one man bands, and added up how many boilers
they had bought over the last year, then they had them in, to see their
invoices to the customer, for the boilers they had bought.

One was taken to Court, others had extra tax to pay.
Mnay others were warned by the Merchants, so had to do a few more
receipts for jobs they had taken cash for, and didnt intend declaring.

It still goes on, I did a boiler install last week, I asked who the
invoice was to, was told dont bother, its a cash job. I did bother, but
only for my records.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On 27/01/2013 11:59, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
I dunno how many haircuts I have in a year. And I'd say it very
unreasonable for the ILR to expect anyone to remember this sort of
thing accurately.

Since I went over to clipper (very short) cuts, I need to have my hair
cut every five weeks - by then it's starting to feel uncomfortable -
and I do so. Cost here is A$15, £10, and I only have to go downstairs
(street level of my tower is shops)

Get yourself a beard trimmer and DIY, in the spirit of this group. I've
been doing that for many years now and it only takes a couple of minutes
every 2 weeks. A beard trimmer cost around £20 last time I looked.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:44:35 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Lobster disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

My allowable expenses are (sadly!) absolutely minimal too.
You are not thinking laterally.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:53:30 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, (A.Lee) disturbed my reverie and wrote:

From that, they picked the one man bands, and added up how many boilers
they had bought over the last year, then they had them in, to see their
invoices to the customer, for the boilers they had bought.
OT but in the same vein. Israelis make the Greeks and Italians look
like 110% tax payers.

Street vendors in Israel used to slice the top off a pitta before
filling it, and discarding it. Suddenly they started slicing it open.
Turned out the Israeli IR had started counting the tops and tallying
that with declared sales - the difference was obviously, 'cash'. I
know of one restaurant in London, that will only take cash...I wonder
why.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On 27/01/2013 16:15, DrTeeth wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:44:35 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Lobster disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

My allowable expenses are (sadly!) absolutely minimal too.
You are not thinking laterally.

I think as laterally as I can, trust me




--
David

On 27/01/2013 10:44, Lobster wrote:
On 26/01/2013 14:45, Arfa Daily wrote:

And just so that everyone understands the level of these investigations,
they had the builder guy accounting for every penny that he spent -
right down to how much a year he spent on haircuts, and yes, that *is*
the truth - so you can imagine the stress levels that this generated.

I'm self-employed, and don't use an accountant (though I have in the
past), and have always thought that one of these random investigations
would be my worst nightmare.

Every penny of my income is paid by bank transfer or occasionally
cheque, and it's not the sort of business where you'd ever expect cash
payments to be made, ie there's no opportunity for tax evasion even if I
wanted to. My allowable expenses are (sadly!) absolutely minimal too. I
wonder whether I am equally likely to get a random inquisition, or would
I just not look attractive enough as a proposition??

If they pick on you, do they always do the full
'trousers-down-and-bend-over' routine, or do they only go that far if
they're still suspicious after making preliminary enquiries?


They certainly don't waste their time unless they expect a big lump of
unpaid tax. In my day a ploy they sometimes used was to ask for all your
paperwork for the last 7 years. Then they would let you sweat for 6
months. Than they would give it all back, having usually not looked at
any of it.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:56:43 +0000, unknown
wrote:

On 27/01/2013 11:59, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
I dunno how many haircuts I have in a year. And I'd say it very
unreasonable for the ILR to expect anyone to remember this sort of
thing accurately.

Since I went over to clipper (very short) cuts, I need to have my hair
cut every five weeks - by then it's starting to feel uncomfortable -
and I do so. Cost here is A$15, £10, and I only have to go downstairs
(street level of my tower is shops)

Get yourself a beard trimmer and DIY, in the spirit of this group. I've
been doing that for many years now and it only takes a couple of minutes
every 2 weeks. A beard trimmer cost around £20 last time I looked.

An angle grinder would be even better.

--
Frank Erskine

if you're buying paint by the barrel but show
minimal income from painting, something is going on. The comment was that
people somehow forget to declare income but never forget outgoings!

Like the Chinese takeaway caught out by buying too many food containers
for the declared amount of sales. The tax people don't need to be very
clever.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:19:19 +0000, DrTeeth
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:53:30 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, (A.Lee) disturbed my reverie and wrote:

From that, they picked the one man bands, and added up how many boilers
they had bought over the last year, then they had them in, to see their
invoices to the customer, for the boilers they had bought.
OT but in the same vein. Israelis make the Greeks and Italians look
like 110% tax payers.

Street vendors in Israel used to slice the top off a pitta before
filling it, and discarding it. Suddenly they started slicing it open.
Turned out the Israeli IR had started counting the tops and tallying
that with declared sales - the difference was obviously, 'cash'. I
know of one restaurant in London, that will only take cash...I wonder
why.

OT, OT but in the same, same vein, the Argentine tax authorities have
performed acts that can only be described as sheer genius - unless you
happen to be an Argentine tax-payer, that is. And given that a
significant proportion of Argentines are of Italian origin, you
probably already know about the general attitude to paying tax over
there.

First, they cut off all legitimate sources for the US Dollar. An awful
lot of under-the-counter business is conducted in USD rather than
local currency and then spirited away into overseas accounts.
Immediately a black market sprang up but the huge difference between
that and the legitimate market means you must be really desperate to
use it to launder your black-economy pesos. But people do.

Next, they started making USD available again, but only to bona fide
travellers and only on the basis of declared tax returns. A
businessman acquaintance of mine was allowed to obtain just USD13 per
day of his overseas trip because the tax authorities determined, based
on his tax return, that was all he could afford to purchase.

Now the tax authorities have placed an automatic 15% loading on all
Argentine credit and debit cards used overseas. It's not a tax because
the value of this loading can be set against your declared tax bill -
if you are declaring enough tax to cover it, of course.

My top tip for anyone visiting Buenos Aires any time soon: buy your
spending money in USD in the UK and then convert it to pesos at a
Cueva or use an Arbolito in the city at the black market rate. Check
out the difference in rates now from the front pages of
buenosairesherald.com (it publishes both) and see how much you will
save over taking pesos out of cash machines over there. Oh: and be
careful out there. The Arbolitos aren't the only ones who will want
your dollars and some of the others offer an exchange rate of pretty
coloured paper or a knock over the head.

Nick