Nazi EU plans rules to curb adverse press reporting.
**
Visit Mike's web-site at:
www.ukipmep.org

Issue Date: Tuesday, January 22 2013


West Midlands MEP Mike Nattrass has warned that the freedom of the
British press could be imprisoned by a raft of EU rules which could
muffle free speech and give Brussels ’ bureaucrats the power to sack
journalists.

The UKIP MEP fears investigative journalism could become a thing of
the past, as the EU looks poised to grab control of national media
regulation.

Interfering Eurocrats may soon wield major press-gagging powers
following the publication of the new report which recommends tight
press regulation and having independent media councils who would be
forced to comply with EU laws and “European values”.

MEP Mike Nattrass said: “The new press watchdogs would have to bark to
the tune of their EU masters, the European Commission which is “Odious
Joy” (Ode to Joy is the EU Anthem).

“The European Commission would be judge and jury over press regulation
as the Commission would monitor the new independent media councils to
ensure they toe the EU line.

“I strongly believe in having an accountable and responsible press but
this report’s recommendations propose having a system of state
regulators who would have to follow Europe-wide standards and laws.

“The European Commission would be calling the shots. They could soon
be in a position where they can fine or fire journalists if they fail
to comply with ‘European values.’

“This is where we have cultural differences with ‘European Values.’’
Our Legal System is based on freedom under the law, whereas Napoleonic
Law (now EU law) is designed to control the individual.

“In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem “Britons never, never, never shall be slaves”
will soon need to be modified."


ENDS

"harry" wrote in message
...
Nazi EU plans rules to curb adverse press reporting.
**
Visit Mike's web-site at:
www.ukipmep.org

Issue Date: Tuesday, January 22 2013


West Midlands MEP Mike Nattrass has warned that the freedom of the
British press could be imprisoned by a raft of EU rules which could
muffle free speech and give Brussels ’ bureaucrats the power to sack
journalists.

The UKIP MEP fears investigative journalism could become a thing of
the past, as the EU looks poised to grab control of national media
regulation.

Interfering Eurocrats may soon wield major press-gagging powers
following the publication of the new report which recommends tight
press regulation and having independent media councils who would be
forced to comply with EU laws and “European values”.

MEP Mike Nattrass said: “The new press watchdogs would have to bark to
the tune of their EU masters, the European Commission which is “Odious
Joy” (Ode to Joy is the EU Anthem).

“The European Commission would be judge and jury over press regulation
as the Commission would monitor the new independent media councils to
ensure they toe the EU line.

“I strongly believe in having an accountable and responsible press but
this report’s recommendations propose having a system of state
regulators who would have to follow Europe-wide standards and laws.

“The European Commission would be calling the shots. They could soon
be in a position where they can fine or fire journalists if they fail
to comply with ‘European values.’

“This is where we have cultural differences with ‘European Values.’’
Our Legal System is based on freedom under the law, whereas Napoleonic
Law (now EU law) is designed to control the individual.

“In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem “Britons never, never, never shall be slaves”
will soon need to be modified."

You're always free to vote to tell the EU to go and **** itself
in the referendum that Cameron will have once re-elected.

harry wrote ...


West Midlands MEP Mike Nattrass has warned that the freedom of the
British press could be imprisoned by a raft of EU rules which could
muffle free speech and give Brussels ? bureaucrats the power to sack
journalists.



Good idea, they can start with the ****ers at the daily mail.

On 24/01/2013 10:20, Kenny wrote:
harry wrote ...


West Midlands MEP Mike Nattrass has warned that the freedom of the
British press could be imprisoned by a raft of EU rules which could
muffle free speech and give Brussels ? bureaucrats the power to sack
journalists.



Good idea, they can start with the ****ers at the daily mail.


ROFL!

In article
,
harry wrote:

“I strongly believe in having an accountable and responsible press but

Says it all, really.

The only 'accountability' the press wants is to its accountants.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article
,
harry wrote:

–I strongly believe in having an accountable and responsible press
but

Says it all, really.

The only 'accountability' the press wants is to its accountants.

Possibly the case in the rags you read.

I don't read any of them.

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Rod Speed" wrote...


You're always free to vote to tell the EU to go and **** itself
in the referendum that Cameron will have in the unlikely event that he's
re-elected.
I fixed that for you...

Dave H. (the other one)

news.virginmedia.com wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote...
You're always free to vote to tell the EU to go and **** itself
in the referendum that Cameron will have in the unlikely event that he's
re-elected.
I fixed that for you...

^^^^
may
I corrected the other typo for you. HTH.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article
,
harry wrote:

#I strongly believe in having an accountable and responsible
press but

Says it all, really.

The only 'accountability' the press wants is to its accountants.

Possibly the case in the rags you read.

I don't read any of them.

In that case how do you know what the newspapers want?

Hard to avoid the Leveson Inquiry.

-

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In that case how do you know what the newspapers want?

Hard to avoid the Leveson Inquiry.

Tarring them all with the same brush, eh?

No different to objecting to EU legislation without knowing exactly what
is proposed.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

Nazi EU plans rules to curb adverse press reporting.
**

As it emanates from UKIP it has all the credibility of the straight
banana story.
--
rbel

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

“In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem “Britons never, never, never shall be slaves”
will soon need to be modified."

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

On Jan 24, 10:28*pm, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:
In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem Britons never, never, never shall be slaves
will soon need to be modified."

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

Ah, Racism and jingoism. The two reasons wheeled out by those who have
no logical arguments.

On Jan 24, 7:39*pm, rbel wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:
Nazi EU plans rules to curb adverse press reporting.
**

As it emanates from UKIP it has all the credibility of the straight
banana story.
--
rbel

Well then check it out elsewhere ****ferbrains.

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

“In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem “Britons never, never, never shall be slaves”
will soon need to be modified."

Blimey. Blimey!

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

+1! Bravo!

The one consolation about all this vast amount of hot air being
generated at the moment by Cameron (I suspect it's all a diversionary
tactic from the ghastly horror story of his failing administration), is
that the silver haired nutters who cannot recognise that the world
started moving on from the British Empire in 1945, never mind 1975, ...
will be dead before long, and hopefully the "British people" (whoever
they might be, in 2018) will de debating intelligently with their
European counterparts about how we all move forward.

[I always was a romantic.]

John
[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who bemoans
the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However, we have
blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far by our
politicians, and you can never, ever go back, so let's get on with it.]

"Another John" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

“In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem “Britons never, never, never shall be slaves”
will soon need to be modified."

Blimey. Blimey!

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

+1! Bravo!

The one consolation about all this vast amount of hot air being
generated at the moment by Cameron (I suspect it's all a diversionary
tactic from the ghastly horror story of his failing administration), is
that the silver haired nutters who cannot recognise that the world
started moving on from the British Empire in 1945, never mind 1975, ...
will be dead before long, and hopefully the "British people" (whoever
they might be, in 2018) will de debating intelligently with their
European counterparts about how we all move forward.

[I always was a romantic.]

John
[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who
bemoans the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However,
we have blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far
by our politicians, and you can never, ever go back,

Corse you can with that sort of thing.

Happened with Ireland, and may well happen with Scotland too.

so let's get on with it.]

Or just decide that the EU aint worth the downsides.

In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who
bemoans the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However,
we have blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far
by our politicians, and you can never, ever go back,

Course you can with that sort of thing.

Happened with Ireland, and may well happen with Scotland too.

so let's get on with it.]

Or just decide that the EU aint worth the downsides.

Sure there are downsides --- in fact they're the only things that people
in this country ever talk about .... almost:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...u-ever-done-us


The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it. And
now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest of us
are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school playground.

John

On 25/01/13 08:49, Another John wrote:
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

€œIn 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem €œBritons never, never, never shall be slaves€�
will soon need to be modified."

Blimey. Blimey!

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

+1! Bravo!

The one consolation about all this vast amount of hot air being
generated at the moment by Cameron (I suspect it's all a diversionary
tactic from the ghastly horror story of his failing administration), is
that the silver haired nutters who cannot recognise that the world
started moving on from the British Empire in 1945, never mind 1975, ...
will be dead before long, and hopefully the "British people" (whoever
they might be, in 2018) will de debating intelligently with their
European counterparts about how we all move forward.

[I always was a romantic.]

It would be correct except that those people to who you refer are found
in the LABOUR party still stuck in some ant-boss class rant, and in the
depths of the tory party and the BNP..

The reason, al la UKIP, to be out of the EU, is because it is a failure.


John
[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who bemoans
the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However, we have
blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far by our
politicians, and you can never, ever go back, so let's get on with it.]


Except the only party that appears to be actually looking forward, is UKIP.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 25/01/13 10:37, Another John wrote:
In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who
bemoans the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However,
we have blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far
by our politicians, and you can never, ever go back,

Course you can with that sort of thing.

Happened with Ireland, and may well happen with Scotland too.

so let's get on with it.]

Or just decide that the EU aint worth the downsides.

Sure there are downsides --- in fact they're the only things that people
in this country ever talk about .... almost:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...u-ever-done-us


The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it. And
now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest of us
are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL
INTEREST. As did France.

You should look at the Eurozone as a whole. Its less successful than the UK.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article
,
harry wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:28 pm, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:
In 1805 Lord Nelson took us out of this kind of control at Trafalgar
and yet here we are in 2013 considering this surrender of power. A
line in a certain anthem Britons never, never, never shall be slaves
will soon need to be modified."

What a load of jingoistic ****e, Harry.
Get a ****ing grip.

Ah, Racism and jingoism. The two reasons wheeled out by those who have
no logical arguments.

And what 'argument' do you put forward for using 'Nazi' in the title?

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it.
And now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest
of us are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school
playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL
INTEREST. As did France.

So France and Germany have the same interests. Totally different from the
UK? That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they think the
UK somehow superior to other countries in every way. Pure jingoism.

You should look at the Eurozone as a whole. Its less successful than the
UK.

Depends which point in time you use.

The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/01/13 11:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it.
And now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest
of us are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school
playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL
INTEREST. As did France.

So France and Germany have the same interests. Totally different from the
UK? That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they think the
UK somehow superior to other countries in every way. Pure jingoism.

You should look at the Eurozone as a whole. Its less successful than the
UK.

Depends which point in time you use.

The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thursday, January 24, 2013 7:39:01 PM UTC, rbel wrote:
As it emanates from UKIP it has all the credibility of the straight
banana story.

Have no fear, the marketing standards for other fruit and veg are alive and well and very detailed.

http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/frui...s/index_en.htm

I particularly like "National authorities can exempt products (e.g. misshapen, under-sized) from specific marketing standards if they are labelled "products intended for processing" or "for animal feed" or any other equivalent wording."

How very generous of them.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?

There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
So France and Germany have the same interests.

Do try and read for comprehension. Germany and France each pursued its
own national interest.

So in both cases are net recipients of EU funds?

Totally different from the UK?

No, the UK (hopefully), pursues *its* own national interest. Why would
it do anything different?

Define 'national interest'. It's bandied about by plenty where they
actually mean 'self interest'.

That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they think the
UK somehow superior to other countries in every way. Pure jingoism.

Perhaps you'd like to detail how you came to that conclusion, from the
above.

Most anti Europe factions put out all sorts of stories about even vaguely
proposed legislation as if it had already happened. Or simply invent some
where it suits.

*Every* country in the EU pursues its own national interest. Such as,
for example, the Greeks. When Portugal was joining, everything was
settled, until at the *last* minute the Greeks demanded an extra one
billyun ECUs (as it was then) before they'd actually sign up.

So this is an example of Germany and France following their national
interest?

Bit like our last house move. Our buyers waited until a month before
exchange to demand extra dosh. Not illegal, of course, but it makes you
feel like kicking them in the nuts.

Then get the EU to legislate against such things.

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/01/13 13:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?

There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Friday 25 January 2013 13:46 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 25/01/13 13:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?

There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...




And give it all to Greece...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On 25/01/13 14:55, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 25 January 2013 13:46 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 25/01/13 13:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?

There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...




And give it all to Greece...

and take it over politically, as the price..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
The 'national interest' *is* self-interest - on the part of the country
concerned.

TYM on the part of those in power in that country.

--
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...




And give it all to Greece...

So perhaps you'd explain how 'giving it all to Greece' is in the self
interest of those other countries?

--
*A day without sunshine is like... night.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...




And give it all to Greece...

So perhaps you'd explain how 'giving it all to Greece' is in the self
interest of those other countries?


Well the Germans never repaid the Greeks what they stole from them when
Greece was under the jack boot during WW2, nor did they pay the reparations
they were supposed to so perhaps they should 'give it all to Greece'. How
any of the EU countries can still want to climb into bed with Germany after
what has happened in living memory is beyond me. What is happening now is a
take over by economics having failed to do it by blitzkrieg. Up an out and
take our £8.5 Billion net contribution I say and the sooner the better. We
are one of the very few net contributors to the EU and it is them not us who
would be stuffed if we left.

In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:
How any of the EU countries can still want to climb into bed with
Germany after what has happened in living memory is beyond me.

And much of the rest of the world with the UK, by your reasoning.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Another John wrote
Rod Speed wrote

[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who
bemoans the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However,
we have blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far
by our politicians, and you can never, ever go back,

Course you can with that sort of thing.

Happened with Ireland, and may well happen with Scotland too.

so let's get on with it.]

Or just decide that the EU aint worth the downsides.

Sure there are downsides --- in fact they're the only things
that people in this country ever talk about .... almost:

Bull****, plenty believe that Britain should stay in
the EU, just like with every country that’s in the EU.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...u-ever-done-us

The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU:

That’s bull**** too, plenty of them have moaned about the worst of the
downsides.

they recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it.

More bull****.

And now they're the most successful country in Europe

That’s very arguable indeed, particularly politically.

and all the rest of us are ****ed off with them.

Even sillier.

God. It's like a ****ing school playground.

Politics always is.

Least you fools have finally stopped having
a full war in almost every generation.

And that was NOT due to the EU, it was due to
the fact that the US had enough of a clue to do
the Marshal Plan after the war had ended that time.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/13 10:37, Another John wrote:
In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

[For whom the Union Jack has always created a frisson, and who
bemoans the loss of British identity as much as anyone. However,
we have blindly stumbled, slid about, and been dragged this far
by our politicians, and you can never, ever go back,

Course you can with that sort of thing.

Happened with Ireland, and may well happen with Scotland too.

so let's get on with it.]

Or just decide that the EU aint worth the downsides.

Sure there are downsides --- in fact they're the only things that people
in this country ever talk about .... almost:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...u-ever-done-us


The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it. And
now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest of us
are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL INTEREST.
As did France.

You should look at the Eurozone as a whole.

Nope, whats being discussed is whether
the EU is worth being part of for Britain.

Its less successful than the UK.

The dregs of it always were, LONG before the EU was even invented.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it.
And now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest
of us are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school
playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL
INTEREST. As did France.

So France and Germany have the same interests.

No one ever said that. Those two being the initiators managed
to get each other to agree to allow the system to promote both
of their wildly different national interests.

You lot, essentially because you were very much johnny come
very latelys never did get to do anything like that and got to
decide if you like the deal that they had decided on or not.

Totally different from the UK?

Yep, completely.

That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they
think the UK somehow superior to other countries in every way.

Some of them certainly do, but plenty just don’t
see that the advantages are worth the downsides.

Pure jingoism.

Nope.

You should look at the Eurozone as a
whole. Its less successful than the UK.

Depends which point in time you use.

Nope, that’s been true all the time the EU has been around for.

Its just not relevant to the question of whether Britain should be part of
the EU.

The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries.

That’s only a tiny part of what the EU is about.

To help prevent wars.

And that’s nothing to do with it.

That’s what NATO is about and even Cameron isnt even
considering asking you lot if you want to pull out of that.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/13 11:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans, you will note, have never moaned about the EU: they
recognised the importance of it from Day 1, and have got on with it.
And now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest
of us are ****ed off with them. God. It's like a ****ing school
playground.

John

That's because they used it to selfishly promote GERMAN NATIONAL
INTEREST. As did France.

So France and Germany have the same interests. Totally different from the
UK? That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they think
the
UK somehow superior to other countries in every way. Pure jingoism.

You should look at the Eurozone as a whole. Its less successful than the
UK.

Depends which point in time you use.

The idea of it is it sort of equalises countries. To help prevent wars.

well that isn't working is it?

Corse it is with EU members.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
So France and Germany have the same interests.

Do try and read for comprehension. Germany and France each pursued its
own national interest.

So in both cases are net recipients of EU funds?

The EU is about a hell of a lot more
than being a net recipient of EU funds.

Totally different from the UK?

No, the UK (hopefully), pursues *its* own national interest. Why would
it do anything different?

Define 'national interest'.

Like all those things, its not possible to
define it, but it’s a valid concept anyway.

It's bandied about by plenty where they actually mean 'self interest'.

There is a real sense in which those two arent very different.

That's the trouble with most of the anti Europe types - they think the
UK somehow superior to other countries in every way. Pure jingoism.

Perhaps you'd like to detail how you came to that conclusion, from the
above.

Most anti Europe factions put out all sorts of stories about even
vaguely proposed legislation as if it had already happened. Or
simply invent some where it suits.

That’s how politics is done. Doesn’t make it pure jingoism.

*Every* country in the EU pursues its own national interest. Such as,
for example, the Greeks. When Portugal was joining, everything was
settled, until at the *last* minute the Greeks demanded an extra one
billyun ECUs (as it was then) before they'd actually sign up.

So this is an example of Germany and France following their national
interest?

Nope, its an example of new entrants managing to get the
ones already in the scheme to agree to some stuff for them.

Britain did too.

Bit like our last house move. Our buyers waited until a month before
exchange to demand extra dosh. Not illegal, of course, but it makes you
feel like kicking them in the nuts.

Then get the EU to legislate against such things.

Even sillier.

On 25/01/13 15:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
There's been a war between EU countries? A very well kept secret...

The EU, a master plan to take over other countries economies without
actually firing any weapons...




And give it all to Greece...

So perhaps you'd explain how 'giving it all to Greece' is in the self
interest of those other countries?

simples! They spend it all on German cars... the money comes from e.g.
us. goes to a German bank, who lends it to Greece for them to buy
Porsche 4x4's with! Jobs for German Wurkahs.

The Euro means they are cheap.

Until the money Ponzi scheme collapsed....leaving german banks very
exposed and crippling Greece with an inflated pegged currency and
massive debts.

So Germany says that what Greece is going to do...is exactly what
Germany wants.

Takeover.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:37:54 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Another John disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

And
now they're the most successful country in Europe and all the rest of us
are ****ed off with them.

They are the most successful not because they are any good, it is just
that the rest are ****ed up due to the EU. Being the 'most successful'
is relative.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On 25/01/13 18:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:
How any of the EU countries can still want to climb into bed with
Germany after what has happened in living memory is beyond me.

And much of the rest of the world with the UK, by your reasoning.

What an extraordinary thing to say.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.