Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html

harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html


They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a
year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000.

Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our
behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more
economically, which is just what they want for various reasons.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They
exist to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility
of the tax being fair.


I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000
miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does
100,000.

Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep.

--
Adam

On 09/11/2012 20:13, ARW wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They
exist to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility
of the tax being fair.


I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000
miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does
100,000.

Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep.


They'll have a job finding a car that pays a road tax that is lower per
mile than the rep - unless it's a city biscuit box.

Tax on fuel would have the great advantage that they could dismantle all
the red tape involved in handling tax discs.

Andy

ARW wrote:

I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000
miles a year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does
100,000.

Well they do not have to if they drive a lower emmison car than the rep.

They might have kept an old car a long time, because of only doing low
mileage.

Bill

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a
year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000.

Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our
behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more
economically, which is just what they want for various reasons.

but that's achange of policy. Outside Slough there is a set of traffic
lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without stopping.
some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop and start -
this was done to increase Treasury revenue. Only lasxt year was the proper
phasing restored.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:20:38 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

Outside Slough there is a set of traffic
lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without stopping.
some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop and start -
this was done to increase Treasury revenue.

Bull****.
More like simple cock-up.

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:20:38 +0000, charles wrote:
Outside Slough there is a set of traffic
lights- the first set of phased ones so you could drive without
stopping. some years ago the phasing was altered to make the cars stop
and start - this was done to increase Treasury revenue.

It was done so that town councillors had a better opportunity to shoot
anyone who tried to escape.

Jules (who had the misfortune to live in Slough for three years)

On Nov 9, 8:04*pm, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a
year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000.

Why shouldn't they? The mileage difference is more than accounted for
by fuel duty. I know w few pensioners who can afford to pay far more
tax than any sales rep.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:

Why shouldn't they? The mileage difference is more than accounted for
by fuel duty. I know w few pensioners who can afford to pay far more
tax than any sales rep.

I'm thinking of my friends, retired farm workers, who are living on a
pathetic pension and yet have to drive 16 miles to the nearest shop.

Bill

On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair.

Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce
less revenue than one that is unfair to some.

I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a
year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000.

Someone who does 3,000 miles a year would probably be better off selling
the car and using taxis.

Governments use taxes for social engineering purposes; for modifying our
behaviour. If all the tax was on fuel people would drive less, and more
economically, which is just what they want for various reasons.

It would also significantly increase the cost of many daily necessities,
which would increase the RPI, which they don't want.

Colin Bignell

On 10/11/2012 11:17, Nightjar wrote:


Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce
less revenue than one that is unfair to some.


Though we do seem to have quite a number of taxes which catch most
ordinary mortals but are easily escaped by some - often those with the
most reason to escape them. Which I think should be classified as being
unfair to almost all.

--
Rod

In message , Huge
writes
On 2012-11-10, Nightjar wrote:
On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair.

Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce
less revenue than one that is unfair to some.

I don't believe it is possible to have a tax that is "fair", anyway.

Tax the use seems close.

Fuel tax ticks most boxes except reducing the competitiveness of our
industry.


--
Tim Lamb

On 11/11/2012 09:26, Huge wrote:
On 2012-11-10, Nightjar wrote:
On 09/11/2012 20:04, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.

Colin Bignell

The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair.

Generally it does. A tax that is fair to everybody is likely to produce
less revenue than one that is unfair to some.

I don't believe it is possible to have a tax that is "fair", anyway.

As people often seem to define fair as meaning it suits their
circumstances, it can seem fair to some people. However, as you say
being fair to everybody is probably impossible.

Colin Bignell

On Friday, November 9, 2012 8:04:15 PM UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
? wrote:
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of taxes and duties. They exist
to raise revenue, not to be fair.


The purpose is to raise revenue. That doesn't exclude the possibility of
the tax being fair. I don't see why a pensioner who does 3,000 miles a
year should pay the same road tax as a sales rep who does 100,000.

Also, given that there is a tax on fuel, it costs nothing to increase
it. Whereas adding a whole new tax is expensive.

They should abolish VED too, and add the extra charge to fuel duty.
(There used to be an argument that VED ensured that there was an MOT
and an insurance certificate once a year. Now they have got both of
those computerised, VED is no longer necessary.)

On Nov 9, 7:36*pm, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa...

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

I have often thought that.
Electricity would still be relatively tax free though.

harry wrote:
On Nov 9, 7:36 pm, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.
The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.
I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa...
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

I have often thought that.
Electricity would still be relatively tax free though.

Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the
tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for
transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the
revenue from petrol and diesel.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
I have often thought that.
Electricity would still be relatively tax free though.

Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the
tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for
transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the
revenue from petrol and diesel.

Unlike diesel etc which you can mark in some way to differentiate between
that used for road vehicles and other uses, electricity can't.

The only way therefore is to tax actual road usage - perfectly practical
these days.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:03:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the revenue from
petrol and diesel.

Too right they will it's a huge amount of money.

Unlike diesel etc which you can mark in some way to differentiate
between that used for road vehicles and other uses, electricity can't.

The only way therefore is to tax actual road usage ...

No just make those with electric vehicles be on a lecky tarrif that
charges all electricty consumed at say £1/unit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Nov 10, 9:08*am, John Williamson
wrote:
harry wrote:
On Nov 9, 7:36 pm, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.
The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.
I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa....
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

I have often thought that.
Electricity would still be relatively tax free though.

Only until it becomes popular and starts making a noticeable dent in the
tax take from fossil fuels, then they will find a way to tax its use for
transport. The government will be extremely reluctant to give up the
revenue from petrol and diesel.


That's exactly what the proposed new tax will do.

In message , at 19:36:14 on Fri, 9 Nov
2012, Bill Wright remarked:

They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

How do you propose to tax the electricity used to charge electric cars?
(More than it's taxed already, that is).

I suppose you could have a meter fitted to the car, and pay an
electricity tax surcharge annually.
--
Roland Perry

Bill Wright :
They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Agreed.

But, stupidly IMO, they moved in the opposite direction by relating VED
to emissions per km.

--
Mike Barnes

On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html


They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-)

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html


They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-)

which is one of the reasons why it is unfair

tim

On 10/11/2012 19:29, tim..... wrote:

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2012 19:36, Bill Wright wrote:
harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html



They should put all the tax on fuel. That would be much fairer.

Bill

But as I drive a large car, a toll tax system would be fairer for me :-)

which is one of the reasons why it is unfair


When travelling at speed, the recommended distance between cars being
far longer than a car makes the overall area of road used by a small car
and a large one near enough the same.

So having different rates of tax through differing fuel consumption is
even more unfair?

On 09/11/2012 18:21, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-routes.html

Glad you are on the ball. That was 28 October. I think you will find
some follow-up stories around. If you looked.

--
Rod

On Nov 9, 6:21*pm, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-drive-motorwa...

Do you believe everything in the Daily Mail?

MBQ

On Nov 9, 8:49*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Nov 9, 6:21*pm, harry wrote:

Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The gov.thinks we will soon mostly be driving electric cars, this is
probably to rake in the tax not paid by electric car drivers I think.
Tough **** if you end up not driving an electric car and paying both
petrol tax and new road tax.

I bet the present road tax will be kept as well.http://www.dailymail.co..uk/news/art...-drive-motorwa...

Do you believe everything in the Daily Mail?

MBQ

Yes?

In message
,
harry writes
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

It says they are "considering a proposal"

Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed
toad taxing system in less than 24 months

stick to the cartoons - more on your level


--
geoff

In message , geoff
writes
In message
,
harry writes
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

It says they are "considering a proposal"

Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed
toad taxing system in less than 24 months


Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway

--
geoff

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:09:05 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , geoff
writes
In message
,
harry writes
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

It says they are "considering a proposal"

Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed
toad taxing system in less than 24 months


Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway

And they're bloody bad drivers (based on a sample of one).


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:55:21 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:09:05 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , geoff
writes
In message
,
harry writes
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.
Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

It says they are "considering a proposal"

Do you REALLY think that it's possible to go from ideas to a managed
toad taxing system in less than 24 months


Its a completely crazy idea since toads rarely have any money anyway

And they're bloody bad drivers (based on a sample of one).

Yes, they make a right ol' mess of the ball.

On 09/11/2012 18:21, harry wrote:
Apparently we are all to be taxed for using the motorways from 2014.

No we are not! Where in the article, which must be true as it is in the
Daily Mail, does it mention a date when this will commence?

It is just one of many proposals which are under consideration!

Later perhaps. the system is to be expanded to all roads.

The scheme would have to apply to all roads in one way or another as,
otherwise, there would be no way to differentiate.

--
Frank