[[email protected]]

I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!
As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter (I've never joned that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...is this a way for certain forums to gather new members? (Forcing me to enter yet another forum?)
Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership somewhere else - we got plenty of accounts and passwords to remember - I don't need a new one.
Please bring back the thread where was originally started (thanks).

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

wrote:

I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!

You need to understand that you're using a web front-end (google groups)
to a usenet group, you'll get a better experience if you use a usenet
client, e.g. Agent, Thunderbird, even Outlook Express and talk to the
group direct ...

As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter (I've never joned that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...

DIYbanter is another web front-end to usenet, it sucks most of its
content from there, but makes it look like it's a forum

Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership somewhere else -

I suggest you get *one* extra account, for a proper news server, which
will give you tens of thousands of groups, rather than the one account
per forum approach.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

[alan]

On 20/10/2012 14:06, wrote:
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!

For most of us using Newsreading software the length of time an article
is retained is down to settings on our own computers. You are probably
using some other method to access the Usenet and are limited by the
server that you are connected to. You sometimes see the thread
reappearing because someone else keeps articles for, say, 14 days and
has replied after your copy has expired from the server.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

[fred]

In article ,
writes
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them
anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!
As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter (I've never joned
that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...is this a way for certain forums to
gather new members? (Forcing me to enter yet another forum?)
Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership somewhere else -
we got plenty of accounts and passwords to remember - I don't need a new one.
Please bring back the thread where was originally started (thanks).

Good answers already, just to add:

Google is an excellent archiving resource, they earned the right to
archive our posts following their take over of the archives of the
original Deja-vu usenet archive and I welcome their continuing service.

They are however a flawed interface for posting, breaking the format of
replies and, as you have found, losing posts. As others have suggested,
there are better ways to talk to usenet.

DIYbanter and the other branches of banter portal do nothing to further
the concept of usenet and have done nothing to earn the right to archive
content. In my view they are a third rate rip off of usenet, presenting
the content as their own and earning revenue from ads along side our
posts, thieves pure and simple.

Maybe try one of the alternate methods of access, it doesn't need to
cost anything.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[Martin Brown]

On 20/10/2012 14:13, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find
them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!

You need to understand that you're using a web front-end (google groups)
to a usenet group, you'll get a better experience if you use a usenet
client, e.g. Agent, Thunderbird, even Outlook Express and talk to the
group direct ...

You should always be able to find thread on Google groups though (at
least in principle). In practice they have seriously broken the indexing
from way back so post that I know I have made are inaccessible. But this
is years back I have never seen modern ones vanish although you do see
parasitic sites harvest content from Usenet.

As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter
(I've never joned that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...

DIYbanter is another web front-end to usenet, it sucks most of its
content from there, but makes it look like it's a forum

DIYbanter is a parasitic copy of a Usenet group just like GardenBanter
and a host of others. Denizens of uk.rec.gardening have been known to be
quite sharp with folk from gb who don't understand where they are.

Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership
somewhere else -

I suggest you get *one* extra account, for a proper news server, which
will give you tens of thousands of groups, rather than the one account
per forum approach.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

To dip a toe in the water there are various free servers of mildly
annoying characteristics of which AOIE is probably worth a try.

I use Teranews which for text groups is a one time registration fee of
$5 and refusing their invitations to upgrade once a year.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Murmansk[_2_]]

On 20/10/2012 15:29, fred wrote:
In article ,
writes
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find
them
anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!
As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter
(I've never joned
that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...is this a way for
certain forums to
gather new members? (Forcing me to enter yet another forum?)
Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership
somewhere else -
we got plenty of accounts and passwords to remember - I don't need a
new one.
Please bring back the thread where was originally started (thanks).

Good answers already, just to add:

Google is an excellent archiving resource, they earned the right to
archive our posts following their take over of the archives of the
original Deja-vu usenet archive and I welcome their continuing service.

They are however a flawed interface for posting, breaking the format of
replies and, as you have found, losing posts. As others have suggested,
there are better ways to talk to usenet.

DIYbanter and the other branches of banter portal do nothing to further
the concept of usenet and have done nothing to earn the right to archive
content. In my view they are a third rate rip off of usenet, presenting
the content as their own and earning revenue from ads along side our
posts, thieves pure and simple.

Maybe try one of the alternate methods of access, it doesn't need to
cost anything.

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird to
read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to be
inferior?

[Adrian[_8_]]

In message , Murmansk
writes
Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to
be inferior?

Try eternal-september


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

[Nick Odell]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:54:28 +0100, Murmansk make
the word newsgroup plural to reply" wrote:

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird to
read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to be
inferior?

I'm reading and writing to usenet from plusnet and I've just checked.
All the uk.telecom groups appear to be there. I'm on the
usenet.plus.net server. I don't know how Thunderbird works (I'm using
paid-for Agent) but if it is case-sensitive, try searching for
uk.telecom instead of the capitalised version.

Nick

[John Williamson]

Nick Odell wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:54:28 +0100, Murmansk make
the word newsgroup plural to reply" wrote:

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird to
read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to be
inferior?

I'm reading and writing to usenet from plusnet and I've just checked.
All the uk.telecom groups appear to be there. I'm on the
usenet.plus.net server. I don't know how Thunderbird works (I'm using
paid-for Agent) but if it is case-sensitive, try searching for
uk.telecom instead of the capitalised version.

In the "Manage Newsgroup Subscriptions" dialogue box, available when you
open an account in the left hand column, just type in however much of
the name you can remember, and it will find all occurrences of that
string in real time. In TB2, it's not case sensitive.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some discussions aren't kept in certain archives...
The point is that the last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!
I don't even know if I can reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I should enter another page with another format.

Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way - just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of messages on their site).

[polygonum]

On 20/10/2012 23:19, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some
discussions aren't kept in certain archives... The point is that the
last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads
I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet
(including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new
discussions are hijacked somewhere else!! I don't even know if I can
reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same
account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of
extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I
should enter another page with another format.

Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way -
just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my
signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of
messages on their site).

I suspect you are completely wrong. The DIY Banter garbage web interface
will be 100% automatic and no-one who has anything to do with them will
know or care what you put in your sig.

--
Rod

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, 20 October 2012 23:19:13 UTC+1, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some discussions aren't kept in certain archives...

The point is that the last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!

I don't even know if I can reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I should enter another page with another format.



Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way - just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of messages on their site)..

Someone's got the message...the discussion in question (the one I couldn't find on UKDIY) is now listed on Groups.google.com - I've used exactly the same criteria as in the past. Go figure...
I'm not an expert (as many have understood by now) but I've been using UKDIY for ages and never come across this sort of problems before...

[[email protected]]

Good then....I'll use an anti DIYBANTER signature and it will be listed on their site!!
The system is automated for sure but there are filters and some messages simply don't register.

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

Murmansk wrote:

I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird to
read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

What version?

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Are you just scrolling through the group list, or typing the name of the
group(s) you're trying to subscribe to? If the latter try a partial
search for "k.teleco" without the quotes, rather than "uk.telecom" in
full - this bug affected older versions.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to be
inferior?

No, plusnet's is actually outsourced to giganews, if certainly carries
uk.telecom.

[Martin Brown]

On 20/10/2012 23:19, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some discussions aren't kept in certain archives...
The point is that the last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!

You can't stop that happening though.

Anything posted on Usenet is easily grabbed by these parasitic sites and
although they mostly rebroadcast the contributions of their members back
to Usenet the ones that don't end up with threads that you have
contributed to going in an entirely different direction.

They steal posts from Usenet as pretend content and usually wrap it with
adverts and click based revenue generating schemes.

I don't even know if I can reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I should enter another page with another format.

Actually posting through Google groups you are actually in a different
place just like DIYbanter that harvests Usenet and allows postings both
ways. They took over the DejaNews archive many moons ago. They are legit
but their posting interface is hopelessly broken and they are a conduit
for spammers and scammers which means posting through there will get you
ignored by a proportion of old hands.

If you were posting from @gmail for instance I would not be responding
as I do not normally see any @gmail posts - too many copy watch UGG
boots spams are injected that way.

Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way - just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of messages on their site).

Try it and see. My impression is that *YES* they are that dumb.

Your complaints are mild compared to the violent beating about the head
that some poor denizens of GardenBanter get for posting in
uk.rec.gardens and talking about "this forum".

I do object to my content being hijacked by these parasitic sites but
there isn't anything realistically that can be done about it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Martin Brown]

On 20/10/2012 23:30, wrote:
On Saturday, 20 October 2012 23:19:13 UTC+1, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some discussions aren't kept in certain archives...

The point is that the last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!

I don't even know if I can reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I should enter another page with another format.

Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way - just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of messages on their site).

Someone's got the message...the discussion in question (the one I couldn't find on UKDIY) is now listed on Groups.google.com - I've used exactly the same criteria as in the past. Go figure...
I'm not an expert (as many have understood by now) but I've been using UKDIY for ages and never come across this sort of problems before...

That is because the search function on Google groups is defective and
has been for about two years now. Existing posts might or might not be
found depending on the way the wind is blowing and position of the
planets when you hit return. Basically they wrecked it.

It is just as likely to spontaneously vanish from the search results
again tomorrow. It is fairly rare problem but by no means unknown.
Mostly I see it looking for archived posts to use msgid links.

I haven't seen it on newish posts but then I avoid posting through
Google groups if at all possible. Nothing goes missing if you have your
own local copies of subscribed newsgroups and update by NNTP.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[alan]

On 20/10/2012 23:19, wrote:

these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site)

There is no uk.d-i-y site - the Usenet doesn't work that way.

I subscribe to the uk.d-i-y group on a news server provided by my ISP.
When I post my ISP puts a copy on its own server and then propagates a
copy to other servers maintained by other ISPs or other organisations.
These in turn proaogate the post onwards, potentially to every news
server in the world that wishes to carry the news group.
The posts in the group don't exist in any one place at any one time.

Each of the servers that carry the group will have different policy with
regards retention times. Some servers may delete articles after a few
days, some after a few months and some after a few years. UK.d-i-y being
a text only group often means that the servers can keep copies for a
significant amount of time, unlike groups that allow pictures and eat up
expensive storage space. However, an individual has the option of
downloading posts to their own computer where the length of time an
article is keep is a configuration option in the software configured by
the user.

At one time it was possible to find posts 10+ years old the news
archives but since Google took them over and F***** them up this is now
an unreliable.

Web interfaces such as "banter" just leach the information from the
Usenet to add advertising.



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

[[email protected]]

these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site)



There is no uk.d-i-y site - the Usenet doesn't work that way.



I subscribe to the uk.d-i-y group on a news server provided by my ISP.

When I post my ISP puts a copy on its own server and then propagates a

copy to other servers maintained by other ISPs or other organisations.

These in turn proaogate the post onwards, potentially to every news

server in the world that wishes to carry the news group.

The posts in the group don't exist in any one place at any one time.



Each of the servers that carry the group will have different policy with

regards retention times. Some servers may delete articles after a few

days, some after a few months and some after a few years. UK.d-i-y being

a text only group often means that the servers can keep copies for a

significant amount of time, unlike groups that allow pictures and eat up

expensive storage space. However, an individual has the option of

downloading posts to their own computer where the length of time an

article is keep is a configuration option in the software configured by

the user.



At one time it was possible to find posts 10+ years old the news

archives but since Google took them over and F***** them up this is now

an unreliable.



Web interfaces such as "banter" just leach the information from the

Usenet to add advertising.







--

mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

I must admit I haven't fully grasped the idea of Usenet...
Anyhow...what was happening recently was that in certain cases when replying to some messages I was being notified that my email was going public and had an option to go ahead or cancel.
Now, if I see the same dialogue box I'll check the message to be replied and simply delete the line showing my email address - that way the dialogue box doesn't appear anymore and no discussions are being "stolen" (even temporarily).
I don't think this is the right solution but so far so good...
(when I find the time I'll find out a bit more on how the Usenet works).

[alan]

On 21/10/2012 17:16, wrote:

I must admit I haven't fully grasped the idea of Usenet...
Anyhow...what was happening recently was that in certain cases when replying to some messages I was being notified that my email was going public and had an option to go ahead or cancel.
Now, if I see the same dialogue box I'll check the message to be replied and simply delete the line showing my email address - that way the dialogue box doesn't appear anymore and no discussions are being "stolen" (even temporarily).
I don't think this is the right solution but so far so good...
(when I find the time I'll find out a bit more on how the Usenet works).


The Usenet is not email. In general you do not reply via an email - you
reply to the newsgroup and everyone can see the reply. There may be
instances where you may want to take something to personal email but
this is very rare. In any case, many posters to the usenet do not give a
valid reply address (because of the vast amount of spam it can attracts
) and any email you send stands a good chance of disappearing into thin air.
--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

[hugh]

In message , John Williamson
writes
Nick Odell wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:54:28 +0100, Murmansk make
the word newsgroup plural to reply" wrote:

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird
to read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known
to be inferior?
I'm reading and writing to usenet from plusnet and I've just
checked.
All the uk.telecom groups appear to be there. I'm on the
usenet.plus.net server. I don't know how Thunderbird works (I'm using
paid-for Agent) but if it is case-sensitive, try searching for
uk.telecom instead of the capitalised version.

In the "Manage Newsgroup Subscriptions" dialogue box, available when
you open an account in the left hand column, just type in however much
of the name you can remember, and it will find all occurrences of that
string in real time. In TB2, it's not case sensitive.

Is there a newsgroups for TB support? I have looked in the past but
never found one.
--
hugh

[polygonum]

On 21/10/2012 20:56, hugh wrote:
In message , John Williamson
writes
Nick Odell wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:54:28 +0100, Murmansk make
the word newsgroup plural to reply" wrote:

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird
to read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known
to be inferior?
I'm reading and writing to usenet from plusnet and I've just checked.
All the uk.telecom groups appear to be there. I'm on the
usenet.plus.net server. I don't know how Thunderbird works (I'm using
paid-for Agent) but if it is case-sensitive, try searching for
uk.telecom instead of the capitalised version.

In the "Manage Newsgroup Subscriptions" dialogue box, available when
you open an account in the left hand column, just type in however much
of the name you can remember, and it will find all occurrences of that
string in real time. In TB2, it's not case sensitive.

Is there a newsgroups for TB support? I have looked in the past but
never found one.

I assume that alt.fr.outil.thunderbird doesn't meet your requirements? :-)

--
Rod

[John Rumm]

On 20/10/2012 21:54, Murmansk wrote:
On 20/10/2012 15:29, fred wrote:
In article ,
writes
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find
them
anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!
As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter
(I've never joned
that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...is this a way for
certain forums to
gather new members? (Forcing me to enter yet another forum?)
Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership
somewhere else -
we got plenty of accounts and passwords to remember - I don't need a
new one.
Please bring back the thread where was originally started (thanks).

Good answers already, just to add:

Google is an excellent archiving resource, they earned the right to
archive our posts following their take over of the archives of the
original Deja-vu usenet archive and I welcome their continuing service.

They are however a flawed interface for posting, breaking the format of
replies and, as you have found, losing posts. As others have suggested,
there are better ways to talk to usenet.

DIYbanter and the other branches of banter portal do nothing to further
the concept of usenet and have done nothing to earn the right to archive
content. In my view they are a third rate rip off of usenet, presenting
the content as their own and earning revenue from ads along side our
posts, thieves pure and simple.

Maybe try one of the alternate methods of access, it doesn't need to
cost anything.

Inspired by this thread I've just had a go at setting up Thunderbird to
read newsgroups rather than using Google Groups.

I've set it up with Plusnet's news server and I can't find a group
called UK.Telecom that I sometimes look at.

Presumably some servers are better than others. Is Plusnet's known to be
inferior?

Plusnet now subcontract their news service to giganews, who are one of
the top providers.

(uk.telecom is there, btw!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

hugh wrote:

Is there a newsgroups for TB support? I have looked in the past but
never found one.

mozilla.support.thunderbird

However the group is only carried on the server news.mozilla.org (even
though that is outsourced to giganews).

[John Rumm]

On 20/10/2012 23:19, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some
discussions aren't kept in certain archives... The point is that the
last discussion was nicked after a couple of days! I can find threads
I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over the internet
(including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that brand new
discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!

You are fundamentally misunderstanding usenet. Its a distributed system
with multiple severs spread all over the world. That is the way its
supposed to work - you post to one, it is replicated on all the others.

I don't even know if I can
reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or other sites using the same
account - simply, don't want to give in to this form of
extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't see why I
should enter another page with another format.

DIYbanter is nothing to do with the group beyond the fact that it acts
as a web based front end to scrape content from it.

Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way -
just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my
signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of
messages on their site).

"They" is a bit of software, you think it cares?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[John Rumm]

On 21/10/2012 17:16, wrote:

I must admit I haven't fully grasped the idea of Usenet...

Have a look at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...up_access_tips

and for details of how usenet itself works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Jeremy Nicoll - news posts[_2_]]

Andy Burns wrote:

mozilla.support.thunderbird

However the group is only carried on the server news.mozilla.org (even
though that is outsourced to giganews).

Traffic is also visible on a mailling list though. See a list of all the
mozilla mail lists, at: https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo

The TB-specific one can be joined via options at:
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

[Martin Brown]

On 21/10/2012 17:16, wrote:




these are peppered all over the internet (including UKDiy site)



There is no uk.d-i-y site - the Usenet doesn't work that way.



I subscribe to the uk.d-i-y group on a news server provided by my ISP.

When I post my ISP puts a copy on its own server and then propagates a

copy to other servers maintained by other ISPs or other organisations.

These in turn proaogate the post onwards, potentially to every news

server in the world that wishes to carry the news group.

The posts in the group don't exist in any one place at any one time.



Each of the servers that carry the group will have different policy with

regards retention times. Some servers may delete articles after a few

days, some after a few months and some after a few years. UK.d-i-y being

a text only group often means that the servers can keep copies for a

significant amount of time, unlike groups that allow pictures and eat up

expensive storage space. However, an individual has the option of

downloading posts to their own computer where the length of time an

article is keep is a configuration option in the software configured by

the user.



At one time it was possible to find posts 10+ years old the news

archives but since Google took them over and F***** them up this is now

an unreliable.



Web interfaces such as "banter" just leach the information from the

Usenet to add advertising.







--

mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

I must admit I haven't fully grasped the idea of Usenet...
Anyhow...what was happening recently was that in certain cases when replying to some messages I was being notified that my email was going public and had an option to go ahead or cancel.

If your email address is swimmydeepo at a well known ISP that sounds
something like an American cowboy shout then it already is very public.

Now, if I see the same dialogue box I'll check the message to be replied and simply delete the line showing my email address - that way the dialogue box doesn't appear anymore and no discussions are being "stolen" (even temporarily).
I don't think this is the right solution but so far so good...
(when I find the time I'll find out a bit more on how the Usenet works).

Download Thunderbird and subscribe directly via AOIE (provided you don't
want to post to uk.rec.gardens - for reasons that are completely
incomprehensible to me that group is blocked for posting from AOIE).

Oh and use a posting identity that is sacrificial for Usenet postings or
one day you will wake up to find 1GB/day of hostile emails arriving in
your inbox. That happened to me in the great Swenfest of 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swen

Even on broadband and deleting on headers GB/day spam rates are
challenging to deal with and we are overdue another such incident.

BTW Google groups now also screws up the line breaks and double spaces
everything quoted which does not endear you to denizens of Usenet.

Defects all left in place as a protest against Google's incompetence.
Their share price deserves to go through the floor.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[[email protected]]

guess what? this very thread disappeared from UKDiy for a while (since this early afternoon) - I googled a bit and found it in another site - this time it wasn't DIYBanter but homeownershub.com...now, I find it again on the right site (where I started it).
Our threads (or those of too relaxed fellas like myself) are just public properties (ok, no damage there) - so public that not even us the "authors" can access them as we wish...

HOMEOWNERSHUB STOLE MY THREAD

let's see which site is next to add to the "name and shame" list...

[Arfa Daily]

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 October 2012 23:19:13 UTC+1, wrote:
I haven't read all messages but someone mentioned that some discussions
aren't kept in certain archives...

The point is that the last discussion was nicked after a couple of days!
I can find threads I started 5-6 years ago - these are peppered all over
the internet (including UKDiy site) - but I can't stand the fact that
brand new discussions are hijacked somewhere else!!

I don't even know if I can reply to my own discussion in DIYbanter or
other sites using the same account - simply, don't want to give in to
this form of extortion...I'm familiar with the UKdiy format and I don't
see why I should enter another page with another format.



Funny, this thread is still running here...I might have found a way -
just put something like: "DIYBANTER ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS" in my
signature (surely they aren't dumb enough to take this sort of messages
on their site).

Someone's got the message...the discussion in question (the one I couldn't
find on UKDIY) is now listed on Groups.google.com - I've used exactly the
same criteria as in the past. Go figure...
I'm not an expert (as many have understood by now) but I've been using
UKDIY for ages and never come across this sort of problems before...


I don't really understand what the problem is here. The 'net by its very
nature is basically an open global public service. The only reason that
usenet has been somewhat 'private' to date, is that the average computer Joe
doesn't even know it exists, or if they do know, haven't a clue how to
access it. In recent years, that has changed by virtue of web-based access
engines such as Google groups and DIY banter. There are many others that
trawl their content from usenet as well. I am very active on an electronics
repair group, and have engaged in many posts regarding Bose equipment
repair, and repair of a particular CD changer mechanism from Sanyo. I get
private emails all the time from all over the world from people who have
tried to research repairing these items using the web, and have turned up my
usenet posts on all sorts of web forums that I've never even heard of, let
alone contributed to.

However, far from having a problem with this, I'm actually quite pleased
that these people have found my posts, and take the trouble to contact me to
either thank me for them being helpful in getting a fix on their equipment,
or to ask for further help and advice. At the end of the day, when I made
the posts to a newsgroup, I placed the material knowingly on something that
is in the public domain, so if it gets found by web-based scrapers, and ends
up elsewhere, then sobeit.

Or am I missing something here ?

Arfa

[Martin Brown]

On 21/10/2012 22:57, wrote:
guess what? this very thread disappeared from UKDiy for a while (since this early afternoon) - I googled a bit and found it in another site - this time it wasn't DIYBanter but homeownershub.com...now, I find it again on the right site (where I started it).
Our threads (or those of too relaxed fellas like myself) are just public properties (ok, no damage there) - so public that not even us the "authors" can access them as we wish...

HOMEOWNERSHUB STOLE MY THREAD

They haven't *STOLEN* it they have taken a copy of it. Your original
thread is still where you put it. Although you don't seem to have the
first clue where that is and you don't seem to be learning either.

let's see which site is next to add to the "name and shame" list...

I don't think you have yet grasped the idea of how Usenet works.

It is an almost prehistoric system from the dawn of the Internet and
originally intended for text based academic discussions. There are
servers all over the world that shuffle the messages to every corner.
You post to one and eventually it goes everywhere. ISPs don't like it
because it is resource intensive and now a minority interest (ie they
cannot make any money from it).

These days there are also a lot of people like you that have never heard
of anything but the World Wide Web and to cater for that market various
parasitic organisations scrape content from Usenet groups and present it
in a web based interface to generate money for themselves.

Most of us on Usenet dislike this practice, but there is nothing that
can be done about it. Some take their frustration out on people who
innocently post to Usenet via GardenBanter and refer to a "forum".

If you read the following thread you might gain some insight:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!search/garden$20banter$20forum$20rec.$2Fgardening/uk.rec.gardening/f0AyBMlPldk/ohNPdyqOEPwJ


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[[email protected]]

I don't really understand what the problem is here. The 'net by its very

nature is basically an open global public service. The only reason that

usenet has been somewhat 'private' to date, is that the average computer Joe

doesn't even know it exists, or if they do know, haven't a clue how to

access it. In recent years, that has changed by virtue of web-based access

engines such as Google groups and DIY banter. There are many others that

trawl their content from usenet as well. I am very active on an electronics

repair group, and have engaged in many posts regarding Bose equipment

repair, and repair of a particular CD changer mechanism from Sanyo. I get

private emails all the time from all over the world from people who have

tried to research repairing these items using the web, and have turned up my

usenet posts on all sorts of web forums that I've never even heard of, let

alone contributed to.



However, far from having a problem with this, I'm actually quite pleased

that these people have found my posts, and take the trouble to contact me to

either thank me for them being helpful in getting a fix on their equipment,

or to ask for further help and advice. At the end of the day, when I made

the posts to a newsgroup, I placed the material knowingly on something that

is in the public domain, so if it gets found by web-based scrapers, and ends

up elsewhere, then sobeit.



Or am I missing something here ?



Arfa

You have missed the main point...I don't mind if my messages are spread all over the web...what bothers me is that I don't find my threads (let alone single messages) where I started them....why is it that I start a discussion using UKDiy then, after a few hours/days the thread disappear from the same site but is found on another site (e.g. DIYBanter or else)...then the same thread reappears mysteriously on UKdiy....it looks I've no control of my own discussions somehow.
Those who say "they haven't stolen your threads" are wrong...or maybe they haven't checked at the right time. I use the same keyword on the UKDiy site(fairly simple as my nickname is quite unique) and a long list of past threads appears - I opt to sort by date (so I get the latest first) and I don't see my latest....so I google to find that missing thread on the web and bingo, I find it, but not on the UKDiy site! (that's really annoying).
Now, since my thread are so public you can try by yourselves and find that out.
As I've already mentioned, I've been using UKDiy for ages and only recently I'm having this problems.

[polygonum]

On 22/10/2012 10:47, wrote:


You have missed the main point...I don't mind if my messages are
spread all over the web...what bothers me is that I don't find my
threads (let alone single messages) where I started them....why is it
that I start a discussion using UKDiy then, after a few hours/days
the thread disappear from the same site but is found on another site
(e.g. DIYBanter or else)...then the same thread reappears
mysteriously on UKdiy....it looks I've no control of my own
discussions somehow. Those who say "they haven't stolen your threads"
are wrong...or maybe they haven't checked at the right time. I use
the same keyword on the UKDiy site(fairly simple as my nickname is
quite unique) and a long list of past threads appears - I opt to sort
by date (so I get the latest first) and I don't see my latest....so I
google to find that missing thread on the web and bingo, I find it,
but not on the UKDiy site! (that's really annoying). Now, since my
thread are so public you can try by yourselves and find that out. As
I've already mentioned, I've been using UKDiy for ages and only
recently I'm having this problems.

You are right - many of us seem to have missed your point. Probably
because we do not know what you mean by "UKDiy site".

This Usenet group is actually called uk.d-i-y. And I cannot readily find
somewhere called UKDiy.

--
Rod

[John]

expressed precisely :
guess what? this very thread disappeared from UKDiy for a while (since this
early afternoon) - I googled a bit and found it in another site - this time
it wasn't DIYBanter but homeownershub.com...now, I find it again on the right
site (where I started it). Our threads (or those of too relaxed fellas like
myself) are just public properties (ok, no damage there) - so public that not
even us the "authors" can access them as we wish...

HOMEOWNERSHUB STOLE MY THREAD

let's see which site is next to add to the "name and shame" list...

Swimmydeepo, you still haven't quite grasped what's going on have you,
so I'll try to explain.

"The Internet" has been around for many years but in the early days it
was all text-based. In 1989, Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide
Web (that's the www that you see in front of Internet addresses such as
www.bbc.co.uk) and that gave us a way to use graphics and pictures and
clickable buttons and all sorts of useful things.

To use the World Wide Web, you need something called a "web browser" -
popular browsers include Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Mozilla
Firefox, and Google Chrome for instance.

Now, when you use a web browser to look at, say, www.bbc.co.uk, all the
text, all the pictures, all the content of the website www.bbc.co.uk is
created by, and belongs to, the BBC (I know that that's not quite
correct but for the sake of my simplistic explanation let's just say
that it is) and is held on the BBC's web servers.

The most important thing to remember is that we're talking about the
World Wide WEB and WEB SITES.

USENET is not part of the World Wide WEB and does not use WEBSITES.

Usenet is a different system altogether and runs in parallel with the
web. Usenet (for the purposes of this explanation) is 'old-fashioned'
and text-based, it does not use websites and you cannot read, see or
post any usenet content with a web browser. Instead, you have to use a
'newsgroup reader' or 'news client' such as Mesnews, Microsoft's
Outlook Express, Forte Agent or Mozilla Thunderbird, to name but a few.

Just like a web browser connects to a web server so that you can see,
read and even post to web sites, a news client or newsgroup reader
connects to usenet servers for similar functionality. A usenet server
holds 'newsgroups' that can be seen by news clients/newsgroup readers.

My ISP (BT Internet) provides a usenet server (called
news.btinternet.com) that my newsreader (Mesnews) connects to, and I'm
currently replying to your thread in the uk.d-i-y newsgroup held on
that server.

You, however, are NOT using a usenet server or a news reader. You are
using a web browser and you are looking at a website called
www.diybanter.com. This is considered to be "a bad thing" because the
people behind DIYBanter are copying all the content of the usenet
newsgroup uk.d-i-y, pasting it into their website and claiming it as
their own.

Everything you read on the 'forum' website www.diybanter.com has been
sucked up from the usenet group uk.d-i-y and everything you post into
the forum website www.diybanter.com gets deposited into the usenet
group uk.d-i-y. Websites like diybanter.com are called 'parasitic web
interfaces' to usenet and there are many more of them besides just
diybanter.com, but all are just interfaces or gateways to usenet.

Webservers (again, for this simplistic explanation at least) will hold
their content in one place. For instance, in our example case of the
BBC, the website www.bbc.co.uk will be held on the BBC's webservers in,
say, London, and that's it. If anyone, anywhere in the world, opens up
their web browser and types www.bbc.co.uk into the address bar, they
will be taken to the BBC's webservers in London. Usenet servers
however, work quite differently.

When I've finished this message and hit the "Send" button, it will go
to my ISP's news server at news.btinternet.com, but then it will begin
to propogate to all usenet servers around the world that carry the
group uk.d-i-y - so it could end up on some Outer Mongolian equivalent
of diybanter.com.

My explanation may have some inaccuracies and is simplistic so no flame
wars please folks, I just hope Mr Swimmy now understands ;o)

[[email protected]]

Thanks you all for all your efforts to make me understand all about Usenet, News etc.

My point is very simple - is the point of view from a user of the internet....
This is what I do step by step:
1) I got a diy issue I want to solve so I decide to gather more opinions to make up my mind - yes, let's use UKDiy - now, you are saying this isn't a website...dunno, and it doesn't really matter to me (the user)...I just have a few bookmarks that links me to UKDiy (since I've used it in the past)....now I believe this bookmark bring me to a certain IP number lets' call it 1.2.3.4 (a fake one - obviously) which is associated with UKDiy.
Now, I post my message (after signing in) then I log out and turn off my computer...
Later on, I turn on my computer to check if someone come up with something interesting which might solve my diy problem...I use the same bookmarks which is linked to that same IP address 1.2.3.4 (which is associated to UKdiy) - I don't see my thread on top (clearly some newer threads have been generated which pushed mine downwards) so, I decide to search for my thread using "swimmydeepo", but my latest thread isn't listed. I can see all my thread there but not the latest one - (at this point I have to point out that failing to find my thread using "swimmydeepo" I use other clues...still no sight of my thread).
As I know some of my threads are all over the web, I decide to check if other "sites" have a copy of my thread...so I google and there you are, I find my thread on another "site" (in brackets, as you say it isn't a site)...
Now, I don't know exactly what you mean by "site" - the only issue that bothers me is that now I can see my thread on IP adress 4.3.2.1 (a fake IP for DIYbanter) and not on IP address 1.2.3.4 where it was originally started (and is bookmarked from my computer)...most frustratingly, someone answered my message and it seems I'm being forced to enter my message on IP 4.3.2.1 instead of 1.2.3.4 - I haven't tried but probably I can used both in a similar way (signing-in in the same way without registering), but I don't particularly like that other "site" format nor like the fact that my discussion is now only on 4.3.2.1...and not on 1.2.3.4 anymore (then, I've found out this is only temporarily).
Clearly, IP 4.3.2.1 is gaining from 1.2.3.4 (and wasting my time too). Maybe the 2 IP addresses are linked (as I've understood from your comments about Usenet), but still, me (the user) is having some issue of USABILITY...(I've been posting on UKdiy for more than 10 years by now...this problem has been noticed only in recent months).
I believe some have found a sneaky and parasitic way to increase "clicks" and "bookmarks" on certain IP addresses rather than others...

[sm_jamieson]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 2:03:06 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Thanks you all for all your efforts to make me understand all about Usenet, News etc.



My point is very simple - is the point of view from a user of the internet...

This is what I do step by step:

1) I got a diy issue I want to solve so I decide to gather more opinions to make up my mind - yes, let's use UKDiy - now, you are saying this isn't a website...dunno, and it doesn't really matter to me (the user)...I just have a few bookmarks that links me to UKDiy (since I've used it in the past)....now I believe this bookmark bring me to a certain IP number lets' call it 1.2.3.4 (a fake one - obviously) which is associated with UKDiy.

Now, I post my message (after signing in) then I log out and turn off my computer...

Later on, I turn on my computer to check if someone come up with something interesting which might solve my diy problem...I use the same bookmarks which is linked to that same IP address 1.2.3.4 (which is associated to UKdiy) - I don't see my thread on top (clearly some newer threads have been generated which pushed mine downwards) so, I decide to search for my thread using "swimmydeepo", but my latest thread isn't listed. I can see all my thread there but not the latest one - (at this point I have to point out that failing to find my thread using "swimmydeepo" I use other clues...still no sight of my thread).

As I know some of my threads are all over the web, I decide to check if other "sites" have a copy of my thread...so I google and there you are, I find my thread on another "site" (in brackets, as you say it isn't a site)...

Now, I don't know exactly what you mean by "site" - the only issue that bothers me is that now I can see my thread on IP adress 4.3.2.1 (a fake IP for DIYbanter) and not on IP address 1.2.3.4 where it was originally started (and is bookmarked from my computer)

The bookmark link to "UKdiy" on your computer (represented by 1.2.3.4) is a link to where ?
Please post the actual thing that appears in your browser address bar when you click on this link, whether that is an IP address or a URL.
Everyone here (unless they've got bored by now !) is wondering what on earth you mean by "UKdiy".

Simon.

[Martin Brown]

On 22/10/2012 14:03, wrote:
Thanks you all for all your efforts to make me understand all about Usenet, News etc.

My point is very simple - is the point of view from a user of the internet...

Take it up with UKDIY then! It is their broken interface to a working
Usenet system that is giving you this grief. Your choices are simple -
do it properly or live with the limitations of their parasitic feed.

This is what I do step by step:
1) I got a diy issue I want to solve so I decide to gather more opinions to make up my mind - yes, let's use UKDiy - now, you are saying this isn't a website...dunno, and it doesn't really matter to me (the user)...I just have a few bookmarks that links me to UKDiy (since I've used it in the past)...now I believe this bookmark bring me to a certain IP number lets' call it 1.2.3.4 (a fake one - obviously) which is associated with UKDiy.
Now, I post my message (after signing in) then I log out and turn off my computer...
Later on, I turn on my computer to check if someone come up with something interesting which might solve my diy problem...I use the same bookmarks which is linked to that same IP address 1.2.3.4 (which is associated to UKdiy) - I don't see my thread on top (clearly some newer threads have been generated which pushed mine downwards) so, I decide to search for my thread using "swimmydeepo", but my latest thread isn't listed. I can see all my thread there but not the latest one - (at this point I have to point out that failing to find my thread using "swimmydeepo" I use other clues...still no sight of my thread).
As I know some of my threads are all over the web, I decide to check if other "sites" have a copy of my thread...so I google and there you are, I find my thread on another "site" (in brackets, as you say it isn't a site)...
Now, I don't know exactly what you mean by "site" - the only issue that bothers me is that now I can see my thread on IP adress 4.3.2.1 (a fake IP for DIYbanter) and not on IP address 1.2.3.4 where it was originally started (and is bookmarked from my computer)...most frustratingly, someone answered my message and it seems I'm being forced to enter my message on IP 4.3.2.1 instead of 1.2.3.4 - I haven't tried but probably I can used both in a similar way (signing-in in the same way without registering), but I don't particularly like that other "site" format nor like the fact that my discussion is now only on 4.3.2.1...and not on 1.2.3.4 anymore (then, I've found out this is only temporarily).
Clearly, IP 4.3.2.1 is gaining from 1.2.3.4 (and wasting my time too). Maybe the 2 IP addresses are linked (as I've understood from your comments about Usenet), but still, me (the user) is having some issue of USABILITY...(I've been posting on UKdiy for more than 10 years by now...this problem has been noticed only in recent months).
I believe some have found a sneaky and parasitic way to increase "clicks" and "bookmarks" on certain IP addresses rather than others...

No. All that is happening is that the gateway "site" you have chosen is
unreliable.

You should also be able to see everything you posted on Google Groups
however that doesn't seem to be the case. Google is not indexing a fair
proportion of your posts. Blame UKDIY ofr Google groups for that!

https://groups.google.com/groups/pro...RG9UNxXUBjH4rw

Or go to GG and look at your posting profile directly.
They reckon you have only posted four times this year.

The thread is on there but the index doesn't have it listed!

https://groups.google.com/group/uk.d...ce80?hl=en-GB#

So maybe the XXXbanter sites are actually backdoors onto the Google
gropes database ... I find it very hard to understand how both services
should have identical search indexing errors in their databases.

(though xxxBanter might be using defective Google tools)

Although swimmydeepo is clueless there is something pretty weird and
crazy going on here with postings that seem not to exist.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[John]

brought next idea :
Thanks you all for all your efforts to make me understand all about Usenet,
News etc.

My point is very simple - is the point of view from a user of the internet...
This is what I do step by step:
1) I got a diy issue I want to solve so I decide to gather more opinions to
make up my mind - yes, let's use UKDiy - now, you are saying this isn't a
website...dunno, and it doesn't really matter to me (the user)

But that's the whole point - yes, it does matter! As I said, the WEB is
different and parallel to usenet.

....I just have
a few bookmarks that links me to UKDiy (since I've used it in the past)...now

No, you haven't. Bookmarks only exist in WEB BROWSERS for looking at
the World Wide WEB. You cannot bookmark uk.d-i-y as it is a usenet
newsgroup, not a website.

I believe this bookmark bring me to a certain IP number lets' call it 1.2.3.4
(a fake one - obviously) which is associated with UKDiy. Now, I post my
message (after signing in) then I log out and turn off my computer... Later
on, I turn on my computer to check if someone come up with something
interesting which might solve my diy problem...I use the same bookmarks which
is linked to that same IP address 1.2.3.4 (which is associated to UKdiy) - I
don't see my thread on top (clearly some newer threads have been generated
which pushed mine downwards) so, I decide to search for my thread using
"swimmydeepo", but my latest thread isn't listed. I can see all my thread
there but not the latest one - (at this point I have to point out that
failing to find my thread using "swimmydeepo" I use other clues...still no
sight of my thread). As I know some of my threads are all over the web, I
decide to check if other "sites" have a copy of my thread...so I google and
there you are, I find my thread on another "site" (in brackets, as you say it
isn't a site)... Now, I don't know exactly what you mean by "site" - the only
issue that bothers me is that now I can see my thread on IP adress 4.3.2.1 (a
fake IP for DIYbanter) and not on IP address 1.2.3.4

This is due to the nature of parasitic web interfaces or gateways to
usenet. As I said above, this whole thread may end up in Russia or
Outer Mongolia on their regional equivalent of diybanter.com or google
groups.

where it was originally
started (and is bookmarked from my computer)...most frustratingly, someone
answered my message and it seems I'm being forced to enter my message on IP
4.3.2.1 instead of 1.2.3.4

You may have posted your original question on diybanter.com but it has
been picked up by google groups and someone has replied from there (or
the equivalent).

- I haven't tried but probably I can used both in
a similar way (signing-in in the same way without registering), but I don't
particularly like that other "site" format nor like the fact that my
discussion is now only on 4.3.2.1...and not on 1.2.3.4 anymore (then, I've
found out this is only temporarily). Clearly, IP 4.3.2.1 is gaining from
1.2.3.4 (and wasting my time too). Maybe the 2 IP addresses are linked (as
I've understood from your comments about Usenet), but still, me (the user) is
having some issue of USABILITY

Then PLEASE use a proper usenet news reader and stop posting into a
usenet group through a web interface. I can't make it any clearer - the
web sites (diybanter.com, googlegroups.com etc) are NOT uk.d-i-y

[robgraham]

On Oct 20, 2:13*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!

You need to understand that you're using a web front-end (google groups)
to a usenet group, you'll get a better experience if you use a usenet
client, e.g. Agent, Thunderbird, even Outlook Express and talk to the
group direct ...

As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter (I've never joned that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...

DIYbanter is another web front-end to usenet, it sucks most of its
content from there, but makes it look like it's a forum

Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership somewhere else -

I suggest you get *one* extra account, for a proper news server, which
will give you tens of thousands of groups, rather than the one account
per forum approach.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

No just go with Google Groups. I've tried a number of the
alternatives and none of them provide the ease of use of this format -
and the 'new' Google format is just as bad.

Google Groups comes in for some stick but the ability to slide up and
down a thread so that each contribution can be viewed immediately just
does not exist elsewhere that I can find. The ability to have ten
posts open at anyone time and view them with a slider is GG's major
attribute IMO.
Rob

[Jeremy Nicoll - news posts[_2_]]

wrote:

1) I got a diy issue I want to solve so I decide to gather more opinions
to make up my mind - yes, let's use UKDiy - now, you are saying this isn't
a website...dunno, and it doesn't really matter to me (the user)...

It DOES matter to you, because the problems you're describing have nothing
to do with usenet, but are caused by the specific website you're using.


Now, I post my message (after signing in) then I log out and turn off my
computer...

When you say you "post a message" what you've actually done is send its
content to the web server that's running that website.

The webserver is presumably then posting the content to usenet (if it didn't
do that then other parasitic websites will never be able to scrape it off
any usenet server).

Presumably the webserver also keeps a copy for you to read later. But it
might not do; it might rely on scraping a copy of the publically-distributed
post off a usenet server later.

Whatever it does is no concern of anyone on uk.d-i-y.



Later on, I turn on my computer to check if someone come up with something
interesting which might solve my diy problem...I use the same bookmarks
which is linked to that same IP address 1.2.3.4 (which is associated to
UKdiy) - I don't see my thread on top (clearly some newer threads have
been generated which pushed mine downwards) so, I decide to search for my
thread using "swimmydeepo", but my latest thread isn't listed. I can see
all my thread there but not the latest one - (at this point I have to
point out that failing to find my thread using "swimmydeepo" I use other
clues...still no sight of my thread).

This is a problem you need to take up with the people who run the website.
It has nothing to do with us.



As I know some of my threads are all over the web, I decide to check if
other "sites" have a copy of my thread...so I google and there you are, I
find my thread on another "site" (in brackets, as you say it isn't a
site)...

No, if you're using the part of google that searches websites then you will
have found a copy of your post that's on a website. Remember that google
doesn't see every website change instantly though.

But all these websites are not usenet.



Now, I don't know exactly what you mean by "site"

A website - something you access with a browser via a URL like http://...


Maybe the 2 IP addresses are linked (as I've understood from your comments
about Usenet),

Any number of websites, that's to say webservers (computers) can grab
content from usenet servers and re-present it via their own look & feel
webpages to anyone.

But the information they are presenting on these sites is not theirs.


but still, me (the user) is having some issue of USABILITY...(I've been
posting on UKdiy for more than 10 years by now...this problem has been

So complain to the webmaster of the site you are using.

And, as a matter of interest, where is the thing that you call "UKdiy"?

What URL is showing in your browser?


--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

[Martin Brown]

On 22/10/2012 14:37, robgraham wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:13 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:
I've started some thread recently and after a few replies I can't find them anymore...tough, one thread reappeared after a few days?!

You need to understand that you're using a web front-end (google groups)
to a usenet group, you'll get a better experience if you use a usenet
client, e.g. Agent, Thunderbird, even Outlook Express and talk to the
group direct ...

As I've just found out, my latest thread is now listed on DIYbanter (I've never joned that forum) and I wonder why is this happening...

DIYbanter is another web front-end to usenet, it sucks most of its
content from there, but makes it look like it's a forum

Surely I've plenty to do than trying to open a new membership somewhere else -

I suggest you get *one* extra account, for a proper news server, which
will give you tens of thousands of groups, rather than the one account
per forum approach.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

No just go with Google Groups. I've tried a number of the
alternatives and none of them provide the ease of use of this format -
and the 'new' Google format is just as bad.

Google Groups comes in for some stick but the ability to slide up and
down a thread so that each contribution can be viewed immediately just
does not exist elsewhere that I can find. The ability to have ten
posts open at anyone time and view them with a slider is GG's major
attribute IMO.
Rob

Google groups is itself screwed though. This thread does not show up in
a search on Google groups at least when I try it from my machine.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown