So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

harry wrote:
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?


I think its a big car battery and that's all. Or snake oil


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Oct 10, 7:47*pm, Tim+
wrote:
harry wrote:
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big *energy problem or snake *oil?

The fact that they don't seem to know the word "battery" would make me
suspicious....

Even if it was a humongous battery, I can't quite see the point unless
you're intending to be "off grid" a lot of the time.

Do you get your FIT for all the power you generate or just the stuff you
feed back to the grid?

Tim

You get the FIT for everything generated regardless.

On Oct 10, 7:59*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 10/10/2012 19:57, Andy Burns wrote: Tim+ wrote:

Do you get your FIT for all the power you generate or just the stuff you
feed back to the grid?

You get all the generation payment and (unless an export meter is
fitted) half the export payment, total 47p/kWh pocketed, with no need to
actually export a sausage.

And don't you love the way they have a "solar collector" right in the
middle of the house... ?

--
Rod

Don't you love the way it isn't even "wired up" correctly?
Looks like the battery delivers AC.
And there are three "wires" to the meter.
They had adverts in national newspapers yesterday.

Dunno how they can get away with advertising such ****e.

On Oct 10, 8:48*pm, Bob Minchin
wrote:
harry wrote:
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big *energy problem or snake *oil?

I bet it is expensive.
Enough batteries to store 20-30kWh will non trivial.

Say 300v at 100Ah or 25 large car/truck batteries although ordinary car
batteries don't like deep cycle use so traction batteries would be needed..
Maybe 1 or 2 electric cars worth of batteries would do.

Whilst it might not affect the MCS accreditation for your PV system the
leccy board might not be too happy if they knew what you were up to.

You would have to be careful not to use imported power to charge the
batteries on days when the PV generation was low. Same sort of control
system as the solar dump scheme use would be needed. Similarly care
would be needed not to import too much power once the batteries had been
exhausted at night

Again to avoid affecting the accreditation, they would have to use a
second inverter which would add to the cost.

So a stack of batteries, another inverter, a control system and you have
a midnight sun set up costing £4k or so plus installation.

Bob

Well a 15Kwh battery for an electric car is £5,000-£8,000.
I suppose lead acid might be cheaper

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:21:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

I think its a big car battery and that's all. Or snake oil

Big (maybe) battery. Interestingly they say you can have power during a
power cut "whilst there is retained power in the solar collector".

I wonder how they deal with any back feeding? AIUI with a normal PV
system loss of mains meant loss of all power as the invertor shuts down
without mains.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:24:00 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:21:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

I think its a big car battery and that's all. Or snake oil

Big (maybe) battery. Interestingly they say you can have power during a
power cut "whilst there is retained power in the solar collector".

I wonder how they deal with any back feeding? AIUI with a normal PV
system loss of mains meant loss of all power as the invertor shuts down
without mains.

SMA do a system that lets you grid connect, but run off batteries when
mains fails. You need something called a Sunny Island as well as a
compatible SMA GTI and lots of batteries. Not cheap though, and
probably not what aweenergy are offering.

I've seen batteries quoted here in watt hours and amp hours. I think of a battery as a store of energy and the SI unit energy is joules. Watt hours are merely a non-SI way of expressing joules.

I know there are variables such as voltage variation and a duration of discharge and it's often best to use the unit that is less dependent on assumptions.

My impression is that phone and car batteries (for non-electric cars at least) are usually specified in amp hours.

In the weird world of domestic pv:
Which unit is more common for battery spec?
Which unit is 'better' as a guide to battery capacity?
Which unit would the sales people prefer in order to mislead you?

That page appears to be blank except for a title here. Is it some kind of
graphic?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harry" wrote in message
...
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

On 11/10/2012 10:15, wrote:
I've seen batteries quoted here in watt hours and amp hours. I think of a battery as a store of energy and the SI unit energy is joules. Watt hours are merely a non-SI way of expressing joules.

Mostly you want a particular voltage battery so Ah is a good metric.

I know there are variables such as voltage variation and a duration of discharge and it's often best to use the unit that is less dependent on assumptions.

My impression is that phone and car batteries (for non-electric cars at least) are usually specified in amp hours.

And that makes sense at fixed voltage. You have to specify discharge
rate and derate the battery capacity if you want a high current out.

In the weird world of domestic pv:
Which unit is more common for battery spec?

Vague hand waving with extra smoke and mirrors.

Which unit is 'better' as a guide to battery capacity?

kWh avoids needing to know the battery voltage. It is the preferred unit
for mains electricity too which gives you a handle on it.
1 unit = 1kWh ~ 10p (very roughly for easy mental arithmetic)

That is about the capacity of two 40Ah car batteries (although for power
storage you need more expensive deep cycle lead acid).

Which unit would the sales people prefer in order to mislead you?

None or failing that horsepower ;-)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

harry wrote:
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

AWE?
Midnight sun?

They aren't fitting a hydrogen bomb in your loft, are they?

Theo

On Oct 11, 10:34*am, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
That page appears to be blank except for a title here. Is it some kind of
graphic?

Brian
Brian
I replicate the text he-

The Midnight Sun is a revolutionary product that allows you to
maximise the potential of your solar PV system by powering your home
24 hrs a day with green energy generated by your solar system helping
you make huge savings on your energy bills. The Midnight Sun is
available exclusively from AWE Energy within the UK and Ireland.
The Midnight Sun can be retrospectively fitted to existing solar
systems or added to new systems at the time of installation.
How does the Midnight Sun work?
The Midnight Sun is a solar collector. Once installed the Midnight Sun
will collect excess energy generated by your pv system and retain it.
When the Midnight Sun is fully charged any excess electricity will be
returned to the national grid.
As the sun sets and your Solar PV system stops producing green energy
for your home, the Midnight Sun takes over and the retained power is
converted to electricity, to be used in your home.
If you use all of the power your pv system has generated then the
Midnight Sun will automatically switch back to drawing power from the
national grid.

There is a graphic with a dodgy line drawing of some kind of
electrical layout that makes no sense.

The question is how can they possibly store much electrical energy and
not cost an absolute fortune. ie, be completely uneconomic.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:48:53 +0100, Bob Minchin
wrote:

So a stack of batteries, another inverter, a control system and you have
a midnight sun set up costing £4k or so plus installation.

And budget for replacing the battery bank every five years, if you're
lucky.

On 11/10/2012 12:55, Theo Markettos wrote:

Midnight sun?

They aren't fitting a hydrogen bomb in your loft, are they?

No need to. The battery just needs the capacity to power a floodlight
for a very short time. At night the floodlight is switched on and the PV
panels generate enough power for the house and to keep the floodlight
burning.

Some people really don't understand this green energy stuff.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 14/10/2012 08:34, alan wrote:
On 11/10/2012 12:55, Theo Markettos wrote:

Midnight sun?

They aren't fitting a hydrogen bomb in your loft, are they?

No need to. The battery just needs the capacity to power a floodlight
for a very short time. At night the floodlight is switched on and the PV
panels generate enough power for the house and to keep the floodlight
burning.

Some people really don't understand this green energy stuff.

Don't think I get it. Is that a green light?

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:
On 14/10/2012 08:34, alan wrote:
On 11/10/2012 12:55, Theo Markettos wrote:

Midnight sun?

They aren't fitting a hydrogen bomb in your loft, are they?

No need to. The battery just needs the capacity to power a floodlight
for a very short time. At night the floodlight is switched on and the PV
panels generate enough power for the house and to keep the floodlight
burning.

Some people really don't understand this green energy stuff.

Don't think I get it. Is that a green light?

Its perpetual motion deary. A sort of green diarrhoea



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 11/10/2012 10:15, wrote:
I've seen batteries quoted here in watt hours and amp hours. I think of a battery as a store of energy and the SI unit energy is joules. Watt hours are merely a non-SI way of expressing joules.

I know there are variables such as voltage variation and a duration of discharge and it's often best to use the unit that is less dependent on assumptions.

My impression is that phone and car batteries (for non-electric cars at least) are usually specified in amp hours.

In the weird world of domestic pv:
Which unit is more common for battery spec?
Which unit is 'better' as a guide to battery capacity?
Which unit would the sales people prefer in order to mislead you?

As we rate the power of items that run off the mains (or solar PV) in
Watts or kilo-Watts and it is useful to know how much we'll have to pay
to run them for a set time or how big an energy store we need and that
ties nicely to kWh.

SteveW

"harry" wrote in message
...
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

Harry, they have definitely solved it. Yes they have.

In message
,
harry writes
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

What do you think ?


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes
So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php

Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

What do you think ?


Given the lack of a Nobel prize. Mind you, they gave one to Europe...



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

replying to harry , Bt wrote:
harry130747 wrote:

So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php
Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?



It is total snake oil. It was installed during the winter and I very
quickly found that if solar generation was too low it recharges on Mains
Electricity and then at night replaces mains with its power causing two
lots of energy wastage as you will never get out what you put in due to
inefficiencies inherent with all electrical equipment. Unit in mid summer
takes 10 minutes to charge and 5 minutes to discharge. Have commenced
legal action. What a waste of money!

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...re-841231-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

Bt wrote:

replying to harry , Bt wrote:
harry130747 wrote:

So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php
Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?

It is total snake oil. It was installed during the winter and I very
quickly found that if solar generation was too low it recharges on Mains
Electricity and then at night replaces mains with its power causing two
lots of energy wastage as you will never get out what you put in due to
inefficiencies inherent with all electrical equipment. Unit in mid summer
takes 10 minutes to charge and 5 minutes to discharge. Have commenced
legal action. What a waste of money!

Did they state an actual storage capacity?

Their web site is remarkably coy about any numbers or technical
detail. Did you ever get sight of any?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Bt" wrote in message
roups.com...
replying to harry , Bt wrote:
harry130747 wrote:

So what does the panel make about this one?
http://www.aweenergy.com/midnight_sun.php
Have they solved the world's big energy problem or snake oil?



It is total snake oil. It was installed during the winter and I very
quickly found that if solar generation was too low it recharges on Mains
Electricity and then at night replaces mains with its power causing two
lots of energy wastage as you will never get out what you put in due to
inefficiencies inherent with all electrical equipment. Unit in mid summer
takes 10 minutes to charge and 5 minutes to discharge. Have commenced
legal action. What a waste of money!

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...re-841231-.htm using
HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

Hah. I couldn't see how it worked, the explanation given sounded like
bull****.
Pity you had to find out the hard way.

I did see a system the other day that would work but it was just
(expensive) lead acid batteries.
About 4Kwh of storage for £K
Hard to see any return on it at all.

Please keep us posted on how you go on with them.

replying to Chris J Dixon , Bt wrote:
chris wrote:

Did they state an actual storage capacity?
Their web site is remarkably coy about any numbers or technical
detail. Did you ever get sight of any?
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK

Plant amazing Acers.


They did not state a capacity but implied that it would work all night.
The batteries are quite large and occupy a box 600mm *600mm* 800mm and
certainly should last more than 5 minutes on a load of about 400w.

The customer service is also poor. They refuse to put me through to the MD
and do not return calls. It is obvious that I have a faulty unit as well
as the charging on mains issue.

The system is controlled by an astronomical switch and other than that
appears to have no intelligence. This means that it charges when the astro
switch tells it to and takes no account of solar generation. I described
it in my letter of rejection to them as parasitic.

They wired our electric cooker so that permanently works on mains. That
again was not mentioned on the sales visit

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...re-841231-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 02:50:25 +0000, Bt
wrote:

They wired our electric cooker so that permanently works on mains. That
again was not mentioned on the sales visit

You didn't seriously expect a battery bank to power your cooker,
immersion, or anything else that relies on an electric heating
element?
This is old bull**** - ten, fifteen years ago, it was simply solar,
off-grid, battery banks, inverter (if used) and grid-tie (if needed).
Cost? Thousands. Only worthwhile for a cabin in the woods and if you
were absolutely determined.
Anyone in an urban setting with one of these setups is perhaps hoping
for a bit of a tide-over when the main grid starts falling apart, but
unless you actually have a cabin in the woods, you're kidding yourself
on.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

You didn't seriously expect a battery bank to power your cooker,
immersion, or anything else that relies on an electric heating
element?

You're right of course, although my mobile 24VDC microwave draws only
45A and thus can be used on two 110Ah batteries without any issues for
normal defrosting and warming up jobs.

Bill

On 19/07/2013 17:44, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 02:50:25 +0000, Bt
wrote:

They wired our electric cooker so that permanently works on mains. That
again was not mentioned on the sales visit

You didn't seriously expect a battery bank to power your cooker,
immersion, or anything else that relies on an electric heating
element?
This is old bull**** - ten, fifteen years ago, it was simply solar,
off-grid, battery banks, inverter (if used) and grid-tie (if needed).
Cost? Thousands. Only worthwhile for a cabin in the woods and if you
were absolutely determined.
Anyone in an urban setting with one of these setups is perhaps hoping
for a bit of a tide-over when the main grid starts falling apart, but
unless you actually have a cabin in the woods, you're kidding yourself
on.


There may still be some mileage in using batteries though. This bloke
claims to have made an inverter and a set of traction batteries pay for
itself by charging on economy 7 overnight and running background loads
during the day. He keeps the big loads away from it, of course, and I
think he knows where to get the kit cheap.

Not exactly automated though, and I think he has to be careful to avoid
switching the inverter directly on to the grid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka0M...OtK53scyZWLSD3



Cheers,

Colin.

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:35:45 +0100, Colin Stamp
wrote:

There may still be some mileage in using batteries though. This bloke
claims to have made an inverter and a set of traction batteries pay for
itself by charging on economy 7 overnight and running background loads
during the day. He keeps the big loads away from it, of course, and I
think he knows where to get the kit cheap.

You'd have to get it cheap - in the early days I knew of telecoms,
fork truck and even submarine batteries being used, but they were all
bought for scrap prices and salvaged good ones made up of parts.
Otherwise, budget for a new battery bank every five years or so and if
you pay normal prices for that, forget it.