On Thursday, 7 May 2015 13:34:35 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2015 13:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2015 12:46, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:20:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GMM wrote:
I would check with you fitter first that that would be acceptable. A
couple of years ago, my gas safe man (who's a reasonable bloke) refused
to fit a fire for me because the instructions were missing from the
box,
despite the fact that I located the relevant pdf online.
It's about liability and insurance.

This is a DIY group. Fit it yourself, if competent. No more difficult
than
water.


I question that "no more difficult than water". My usual approach with
water is "fit, wait, find leaks, fix". That works fine with water
because
leaking a couple of litres of water over a 12 hour period is pretty
obvious,
and fairly harmless (provided fixed promptly). A similar sized hole with
gas is a) not nearly so obvious; b) significantly less harmless.

The maximum extent to which I am prepared to DIY gas is "plug bayonet
fitting into cooker".

Its easy to detect gas leaks with a simple manometer.

If any doubts get a Landlord or similar gas safety certificate.

you can do that at the connector at the meter can't you ? ......


Correct. I forget the pressure drop criterion, isn't it something like
less than 10 mm in five minutes (which is about 1 mb) for a typical
domestic installation?

Or "no detectable drop" if all the appliances have been disconnected.

Its easy to detect gas leaks with a simple manometer.

It is called a 'Personometer' these days.......same as a
personhole.....or.....the place Personchester

In article ,
Martin Bonner wrote:
I question that "no more difficult than water". My usual approach with
water is "fit, wait, find leaks, fix".


I did say if competent. ;-)

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 07/05/2015 13:39, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, 7 May 2015 13:34:35 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2015 13:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2015 12:46, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:20:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GMM wrote:
I would check with you fitter first that that would be acceptable. A
couple of years ago, my gas safe man (who's a reasonable bloke) refused
to fit a fire for me because the instructions were missing from the
box,
despite the fact that I located the relevant pdf online.
It's about liability and insurance.

This is a DIY group. Fit it yourself, if competent. No more difficult
than
water.


I question that "no more difficult than water". My usual approach with
water is "fit, wait, find leaks, fix". That works fine with water
because
leaking a couple of litres of water over a 12 hour period is pretty
obvious,
and fairly harmless (provided fixed promptly). A similar sized hole with
gas is a) not nearly so obvious; b) significantly less harmless.

The maximum extent to which I am prepared to DIY gas is "plug bayonet
fitting into cooker".

Its easy to detect gas leaks with a simple manometer.

If any doubts get a Landlord or similar gas safety certificate.

you can do that at the connector at the meter can't you ? ......


Correct. I forget the pressure drop criterion, isn't it something like
less than 10 mm in five minutes (which is about 1 mb) for a typical
domestic installation?

Or "no detectable drop" if all the appliances have been disconnected.

There is also the small proviso that the regulator hasn't kicked in and
regulating the high pressure gas between the lever valve and regulator.

In other words you should ensure the starting pressure is a little below
this 'regulated' pressure to ensure the lack of any drop isn't caused by
this.

In article ,
Fredxxx writes:
On 07/05/2015 13:39, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, 7 May 2015 13:34:35 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2015 13:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...

Its easy to detect gas leaks with a simple manometer.

It is quite easy, but there is a defined procedure which is not
obvious if you don't already know it.

If any doubts get a Landlord or similar gas safety certificate.

you can do that at the connector at the meter can't you ? ......

At the test nipple.
Afterwards you should check the test nipple is sealed closed by using
leak detector fluid.

Correct. I forget the pressure drop criterion, isn't it something like
less than 10 mm in five minutes (which is about 1 mb) for a typical
domestic installation?

Or "no detectable drop" if all the appliances have been disconnected.

There is also the small proviso that the regulator hasn't kicked in and
regulating the high pressure gas between the lever valve and regulator.

In other words you should ensure the starting pressure is a little below
this 'regulated' pressure to ensure the lack of any drop isn't caused by
this.

You also have to check that the main stop cock is sealing off, which
you do by closing it, safely venting the pipework down to atmospheric
pressure and then closing off the vent point, and monitor the pressure
for a while to make sure the pressure doesn't start increasing in the
pipework. If the main stop cock is not sealing off, it can hide a leak
in the system during the pressure drop test.

Note that you do these tests before *and* after making changes. If you
only check afterwards and find a leak, you will not know if you caused
it or if it was already there, which makes a big difference to the
fault area which needs searching.

Second note - ambient temperature changes during a pressure test will
cause the pressure in the pipework to change even when there aren't
any leaks.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

newshound wrote:

I forget the pressure drop criterion, isn't it something like
less than 10 mm in five minutes (which is about 1 mb) for a typical
domestic installation?

Ed Sirret's gas FAQ is still out there somewhere ...

On Thu, 07 May 2015 08:23:11 +0100, cl wrote:

Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2015 13:27:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


Really? So confusing, I spoke to a distributor in Italy who said they
ship to UK all the time. Don't really know who to believe!

Bottled gas is usually Propane, UK natural gas is mainly Methane. They
have differing energy content and require different burners (or burner
nozzles) to be fitted. Most manufacturers can supply bits for either
gas supply as long as you specify it when ordering. Simply saying "UK
use" is inadequate as rural locations in the UK with no natural gas
supply often use Propane.

Our Ilve hob (Britannia in the UK) came with the conversion jets, just a
matter of unscrewing the natural gas ones and screwing in the bottled
gas ones for us.

Our Bosch 4 burner hob came supplied with the NG jets fitted along with
a pack of THREE sets of alternative jets (which I've put 'somewhere safe'
- as per the usual, I've already forgotten, after just a couple of months
or so, where that 'somewhere safe' actually is).

Naturally enough, this being a DIY group, I fitted the hob myself, using
up the very last of my gas ptfe tape transferring the quick connect
flexible hose from the old New World(?) 4 burner hob which had seen
better days (some 12,000 of them in fact) wherein the battery powered
igniter had failed over 11,000 of those days ago.

The only extra complication was the need to connect its ignition unit to
the existing FCU serving the cooker hood. As per usual, the supplied
mains cable was about a metre too short but, after verifying the attached
mains flex was nothing special by way of being heat resistant (a
cigarette lighter flame test revealed it to be nothing more than standard
PVC insulated flex), I simply cut a suitable length off a coil of 10A 3
core flex I'd been keeping in the basement for the past 3 decades or so
for such occasions and wired it up with that. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On 08/05/2015 21:15, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2015 08:23:11 +0100, cl wrote:

Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2015 13:27:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


Really? So confusing, I spoke to a distributor in Italy who said they
ship to UK all the time. Don't really know who to believe!

Bottled gas is usually Propane, UK natural gas is mainly Methane. They
have differing energy content and require different burners (or burner
nozzles) to be fitted. Most manufacturers can supply bits for either
gas supply as long as you specify it when ordering. Simply saying "UK
use" is inadequate as rural locations in the UK with no natural gas
supply often use Propane.

Our Ilve hob (Britannia in the UK) came with the conversion jets, just a
matter of unscrewing the natural gas ones and screwing in the bottled
gas ones for us.

Our Bosch 4 burner hob came supplied with the NG jets fitted along with
a pack of THREE sets of alternative jets (which I've put 'somewhere safe'
- as per the usual, I've already forgotten, after just a couple of months
or so, where that 'somewhere safe' actually is).

Naturally enough, this being a DIY group, I fitted the hob myself, using
up the very last of my gas ptfe tape transferring the quick connect
flexible hose from the old New World(?) 4 burner hob which had seen
better days (some 12,000 of them in fact) wherein the battery powered
igniter had failed over 11,000 of those days ago.

The only extra complication was the need to connect its ignition unit to
the existing FCU serving the cooker hood. As per usual, the supplied
mains cable was about a metre too short but, after verifying the attached
mains flex was nothing special by way of being heat resistant (a
cigarette lighter flame test revealed it to be nothing more than standard
PVC insulated flex), I simply cut a suitable length off a coil of 10A 3
core flex I'd been keeping in the basement for the past 3 decades or so
for such occasions and wired it up with that. :-)

If the cable was heat resistant, it would have had details along its
length to which BSxxxx it conforms to. In the absence of any
indication, I would tend to assume it was general purpose PVC cable.

On Fri, 08 May 2015 21:28:35 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

On 08/05/2015 21:15, Johnny B Good wrote:

====snip====


The only extra complication was the need to connect its ignition unit
to
the existing FCU serving the cooker hood. As per usual, the supplied
mains cable was about a metre too short but, after verifying the
attached mains flex was nothing special by way of being heat resistant
(a cigarette lighter flame test revealed it to be nothing more than
standard PVC insulated flex), I simply cut a suitable length off a coil
of 10A 3 core flex I'd been keeping in the basement for the past 3
decades or so for such occasions and wired it up with that. :-)

If the cable was heat resistant, it would have had details along its
length as to which BSxxxx it conforms to. In the absence of any
indication, I would tend to assume it was general purpose PVC cable.

Well, the cable didn't have the distinctive feel of a silicone based
insulant and, rather than rely upon labelling alone and ass u m(e) ption,
I figured it was easier to try a "Char & Sniff" test to prove,
definitively, that it was merely standard PVC insulated 10A 3 core
flex. :-)

--
Johnny B Good