I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.
The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with breeze blocks).
I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).
I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding....any thoughts?

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:51:45 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.

The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with breeze blocks).

I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).

I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any thoughts?


This sounds confused. Fit insulation under the cladding, it would be foolish not to really. PIR is best, fibreglass cheapest. I'd skip multifoils.


NT

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:41:09 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:51:45 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.



The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with breeze blocks).



I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).



I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any thoughts?





This sounds confused. Fit insulation under the cladding, it would be foolish not to really. PIR is best, fibreglass cheapest. I'd skip multifoils.





NT

I'd also fit CWI from inside. Its just a no brainer £wise. Polystyrene balls are the easiest to do.


NT

On Sunday, 30 September 2012 17:41:09 UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:51:45 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.



The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with breeze blocks).



I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).



I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any thoughts?





This sounds confused. Fit insulation under the cladding, it would be foolish not to really. PIR is best, fibreglass cheapest. I'd skip multifoils.





NT

I do agree proper insulation would be ideal but Wallrock Thermal Liner isn't proper insulation - it seems to me it acts like a reflector of heat which is fine but not enough...and PVC panels in themselves do reflect heat back in the room.
What do you mean by PIR? Something like Celotex? I have some spare 50mm boards but these takes some precious space (the bathroom is only 1.8m x 1.5m)....maybe I can consider some 25mm and then attach the PVC panels on top?
At least the bathroom extension has a proper air gap made of breeze blocks (which provide some insulation) the rest of the house is made of bricks - so I prefer to use the Celotex where is most needed.

On Monday, October 1, 2012 9:50:44 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Sunday, 30 September 2012 17:41:09 UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:51:45 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

I do agree proper insulation would be ideal but Wallrock Thermal Liner isn't proper insulation - it seems to me it acts like a reflector of heat which is fine but not enough...and PVC panels in themselves do reflect heat back in the room.

Sounds like marketing speak.


What do you mean by PIR? Something like Celotex?

yup, polyisocyanurate foam

I have some spare 50mm boards but these takes some precious space (the bathroom is only 1.8m x 1.5m)...maybe I can consider some 25mm and then attach the PVC panels on top?

indeed.

At least the bathroom extension has a proper air gap made of breeze blocks (which provide some insulation) the rest of the house is made of bricks - so I prefer to use the Celotex where is most needed.

Put it everywhere youre going to resurface anyway.


NT

In article ,
writes
I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.
The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with
breeze blocks).
I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought
that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much
space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC
cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also
mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an
overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).
I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any
thoughts?

The product you mention is only 3mm thick and no material in that
thickness can provide any meaningful level of insulation. If you can
stand to lose the space then use your spare celotex, if you can't then
think about sourcing 25mm celotex (or substitute in seconds). If you're
really stuck for space then hack the plaster off the walls and then use
25mm. With cavity walls I'd say you could do that without risk (although
be sure to 360degree seal panels to the bare wall).

I assume you're thinking of this because you're finding the room cold at
present and with 3 external walls I think you'd benefit from something
extra.

At domestic temperatures claims of reflecting heat are just pants and
bear in mind that in insulation no surface can reflect anything
meaningful if it is in intimate contact with something else.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Monday, 1 October 2012 21:48:58 UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article ,

writes

I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.

The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with

breeze blocks).

I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought

that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much

space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC

cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also

mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an

overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).

I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any

thoughts?



The product you mention is only 3mm thick and no material in that

thickness can provide any meaningful level of insulation. If you can

stand to lose the space then use your spare celotex, if you can't then

think about sourcing 25mm celotex (or substitute in seconds). If you're

really stuck for space then hack the plaster off the walls and then use

25mm. With cavity walls I'd say you could do that without risk (although

be sure to 360degree seal panels to the bare wall).



I assume you're thinking of this because you're finding the room cold at

present and with 3 external walls I think you'd benefit from something

extra.



At domestic temperatures claims of reflecting heat are just pants and

bear in mind that in insulation no surface can reflect anything

meaningful if it is in intimate contact with something else.

--

fred

it's a ba-na-na . . . .

So, it seems you agree with my point - that Wallrock Thermal liner isn't the solution.
I'll consider hacking the plaster off...maybe I can regain some space and then use some Celotex...but then, I'm not that sure how to attach the PVC panels to the Celotex maybe some glue? Stapling would be quick and easy but I'm going to bore the insulation...(dunno).

wrote:


So, it seems you agree with my point - that Wallrock Thermal liner isn't
the solution. I'll consider hacking the plaster off...maybe I can regain
some space and then use some Celotex...but then, I'm not that sure how to
attach the PVC panels to the Celotex maybe some glue? Stapling would be
quick and easy but I'm going to bore the insulation...(dunno).

Low expansion PU Foam aka drywall adhesive would probably work pretty well.

On an aside, I am costing the insulation phase of my roof thre seem to be
some pretty good prices on ebay for Celotex (pristine, not seconds) -
especially if you can buy a set of 10,20 or 30 sheets - eg 18-19 quid a
sheet for 50mm - that's the sort of price I was getting second-grade
Ballytherm for 3 years back.



--
Tim Watts
Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

In article ,
writes

Sorry, had to snip all the context, that double line spaced quoting ****
from GG is really ****ing me off.

So, it seems you agree with my point - that Wallrock Thermal liner isn't the
solution.
I'll consider hacking the plaster off...maybe I can regain some space and then use
some Celotex...but then, I'm not that sure how to attach the PVC panels to the
Celotex maybe some glue? Stapling would be quick and easy but I'm going to bore
the insulation...(dunno).

You can glue the celotex to the brick with low expansion 'fill & fix'
foam and once set stick the panels to that using waterproof no more
nails type product (you use 1/3 to 1/2 of a tube per panel).

Btw, you mention again in another reply that Wallrock and/or PVC
cladding reflects heat back into the room, this simply does not happen
at domestic temperatures.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:02:46 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, 1 October 2012 21:48:58 UTC+1, fred wrote:

In article ,



swimmydeepo writes



I'm thinking of lining the wall of a small bathroom with PVC cladding.



The bathroom is basically an extension with 3 external walls (double leaf with



breeze blocks).



I've read some positive comments about the Wallrock Thermal Liner and thought



that this might help keeping this bathroom a bit warmer without wasting much



space (I have some spare Celotex 50mm). Then, on second thoughts, PVC



cladding in itself offer some heat reflection properties and it also



mould/condensation resistant and in the end installing the Wallrock would be an



overkill as it doesn't retain the heat (only reflect - just like PVC cladding).



I'm inclined to ditch the idea of the Wallrock and using only PVC cladding...any



thoughts?







The product you mention is only 3mm thick and no material in that



thickness can provide any meaningful level of insulation. If you can



stand to lose the space then use your spare celotex, if you can't then



think about sourcing 25mm celotex (or substitute in seconds). If you're



really stuck for space then hack the plaster off the walls and then use



25mm. With cavity walls I'd say you could do that without risk (although



be sure to 360degree seal panels to the bare wall).







I assume you're thinking of this because you're finding the room cold at



present and with 3 external walls I think you'd benefit from something



extra.







At domestic temperatures claims of reflecting heat are just pants and



bear in mind that in insulation no surface can reflect anything



meaningful if it is in intimate contact with something else.



--



fred



it's a ba-na-na . . . .



So, it seems you agree with my point - that Wallrock Thermal liner isn't the solution.

I'll consider hacking the plaster off...maybe I can regain some space and

too much work

then use some Celotex...but then, I'm not that sure how to attach the PVC panels to the Celotex maybe some glue? Stapling would be quick and easy but I'm going to bore the insulation...(dunno).

you know upvc surface roughens over time, becoming uncleanable

In article ,
writes

too much work

Speaking of too much work, is there really no way you can snip those
useless lines of now quadspace filling that your news interface is
inserting into otherwise useful contributions?

Time to hard kill GG posters I think, this junk really is too tiresome.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:51:04 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
In article ,

meow2222 writes



too much work



Speaking of too much work, is there really no way you can snip those

useless lines of now quadspace filling that your news interface is

inserting into otherwise useful contributions?



Time to hard kill GG posters I think, this junk really is too tiresome.


Abysmal isn't it. Still legible though.


NT

Thanks for all useful feedback.

Surely PVC panels cannot compare to Celotex in terms of insulation but maybe they are very close to the products like the Wallrock.
The Wallrock has a soft/fluffy side while one surface is covered by some lining paper which is supposed to act as a heat reflector while the fluffy side is in direct contact with the wall. Well, the PVC panels in theory offer something similar as these are hollow (trapped air act as an insulator) and if some lining paper backed by some fluffy material reflect heath why can't some PVC backed by trapper air?
Regarding the problem of PVC panels becoming unclean-able over time - this apply to normal walls too...at one point one need to repaint the lot - then, why not paint over a PVC cladding (by sanding first).

An important point I forgot to mention about insulating the bathroom - there is a big double glazing windows - it takes about 80% of the surface one of the 2 bigger walls...it seems to me that no matter how much Celotex it's going to be used, the heat would escape through the window. In the end, it's better to see the wider picture (admit defeat) and settle for some extra heating sources (e.g. an underfloor heating system coupled with a radiator) - after all the bathroom is small and easy to heat up.

Now, as I settled for installing PVC panels (despite the skepticism) - remains to know how to attach things (e.g. a picture onto them)...maybe drilling the wall and using plastic plugs?

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:17:38 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
Thanks for all useful feedback.



Surely PVC panels cannot compare to Celotex in terms of insulation

no

but maybe they are very close to the products like the Wallrock.

The Wallrock has a soft/fluffy side while one surface is covered by some lining paper which is supposed to act as a heat reflector while the fluffy side is in direct contact with the wall. Well, the PVC panels in theory offer something similar as these are hollow (trapped air act as an insulator) and if some lining paper backed by some fluffy material reflect heath why can't some PVC backed by trapper air?

Seems you're still believing the marketing speak


Regarding the problem of PVC panels becoming unclean-able over time - this apply to normal walls too...at one point one need to repaint the lot - then, why not paint over a PVC cladding (by sanding first).

because it looks crap


An important point I forgot to mention about insulating the bathroom - there is a big double glazing windows - it takes about 80% of the surface one of the 2 bigger walls...it seems to me that no matter how much Celotex it's going to be used, the heat would escape through the window. In the end, it's better to see the wider picture (admit defeat) and settle for some extra heating sources (e.g. an underfloor heating system coupled with a radiator) - after all the bathroom is small and easy to heat up.

the presence of glass doesnt have any effect on the amount of heat lost through a wall, or the saving insulating it makes.

But if you can add tertiary glazing instead of pvc/3mm insulation etc it would save more money.


Now, as I settled for installing PVC panels (despite the skepticism) -

why is a mystery. You can get a nicer more durable fire safe finish with plaster.


remains to know how to attach things (e.g. a picture onto them)...maybe drilling the wall and using plastic plugs?

or use plugs for hollow PB walls. Or iron them on


NT

On Wednesday, 3 October 2012 10:46:59 UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:17:38 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

Thanks for all useful feedback.







Surely PVC panels cannot compare to Celotex in terms of insulation



no



but maybe they are very close to the products like the Wallrock.



The Wallrock has a soft/fluffy side while one surface is covered by some lining paper which is supposed to act as a heat reflector while the fluffy side is in direct contact with the wall. Well, the PVC panels in theory offer something similar as these are hollow (trapped air act as an insulator) and if some lining paper backed by some fluffy material reflect heath why can't some PVC backed by trapper air?



Seems you're still believing the marketing speak





Regarding the problem of PVC panels becoming unclean-able over time - this apply to normal walls too...at one point one need to repaint the lot - then, why not paint over a PVC cladding (by sanding first).



because it looks crap





An important point I forgot to mention about insulating the bathroom - there is a big double glazing windows - it takes about 80% of the surface one of the 2 bigger walls...it seems to me that no matter how much Celotex it's going to be used, the heat would escape through the window. In the end, it's better to see the wider picture (admit defeat) and settle for some extra heating sources (e.g. an underfloor heating system coupled with a radiator) - after all the bathroom is small and easy to heat up.



the presence of glass doesnt have any effect on the amount of heat lost through a wall, or the saving insulating it makes.



But if you can add tertiary glazing instead of pvc/3mm insulation etc it would save more money.





Now, as I settled for installing PVC panels (despite the skepticism) -



why is a mystery. You can get a nicer more durable fire safe finish with plaster.





remains to know how to attach things (e.g. a picture onto them)...maybe drilling the wall and using plastic plugs?



or use plugs for hollow PB walls. Or iron them on





NT

No I'm not buying the marketing talk...why do you keep repeating yourself? Are you a sentimental old school plasterer fighting against the PVC panels "movement"?!
If you read my messages I've admitted that Celotex is proper insulation while Wallrock and PVC Panels aren't - but surely the last 2 do a better job than plaster (in that context) - just the fact that I dropped the idea of buying Wallrock for my bathroom should tell I'm not that gullible.
The present plaster in my bathroom gets mouldy and that reason alone is a good excuse for using something else - e.g. PVC panels (at least in a bathroom).
Tiles are pleasant to look at, but these are prone to condensation just like plaster. PVC is just more practical for bathrooms...oh, and forget about the old pvc myth, the modern pvc panels just look stunning (get yourself updated).

Regarding the presence of glass not having any effect in the amount of heat loss - I must have read something about a 75% glazing rule somewhere - but sorry I'm just not bothered at the moment to find out the data (get yourself updated)....just common sense would be enough to figure out that your assumption (the glazing surface is irrelevant) is unfounded - if not why suggesting to use triple glazing?! That in fact should be the first priority; then perhaps it would make more sense using thicker Celotex panels for the rest of the bathroom - at least losing precious room volume would be justified.

On 03/10/12 20:27, wrote:
On Wednesday, 3 October 2012 10:46:59 UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:17:38 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

Thanks for all useful feedback.







Surely PVC panels cannot compare to Celotex in terms of insulation



no



but maybe they are very close to the products like the Wallrock.



The Wallrock has a soft/fluffy side while one surface is covered by some lining paper which is supposed to act as a heat reflector while the fluffy side is in direct contact with the wall. Well, the PVC panels in theory offer something similar as these are hollow (trapped air act as an insulator) and if some lining paper backed by some fluffy material reflect heath why can't some PVC backed by trapper air?



Seems you're still believing the marketing speak





Regarding the problem of PVC panels becoming unclean-able over time - this apply to normal walls too...at one point one need to repaint the lot - then, why not paint over a PVC cladding (by sanding first).



because it looks crap





An important point I forgot to mention about insulating the bathroom - there is a big double glazing windows - it takes about 80% of the surface one of the 2 bigger walls...it seems to me that no matter how much Celotex it's going to be used, the heat would escape through the window. In the end, it's better to see the wider picture (admit defeat) and settle for some extra heating sources (e.g. an underfloor heating system coupled with a radiator) - after all the bathroom is small and easy to heat up.



the presence of glass doesnt have any effect on the amount of heat lost through a wall, or the saving insulating it makes.



But if you can add tertiary glazing instead of pvc/3mm insulation etc it would save more money.





Now, as I settled for installing PVC panels (despite the skepticism) -



why is a mystery. You can get a nicer more durable fire safe finish with plaster.





remains to know how to attach things (e.g. a picture onto them)...maybe drilling the wall and using plastic plugs?



or use plugs for hollow PB walls. Or iron them on





NT

No I'm not buying the marketing talk...why do you keep repeating yourself? Are you a sentimental old school plasterer fighting against the PVC panels "movement"?!
If you read my messages I've admitted that Celotex is proper insulation while Wallrock and PVC Panels aren't - but surely the last 2 do a better job than plaster (in that context) - just the fact that I dropped the idea of buying Wallrock for my bathroom should tell I'm not that gullible.
The present plaster in my bathroom gets mouldy and that reason alone is a good excuse for using something else - e.g. PVC panels (at least in a bathroom).
Tiles are pleasant to look at, but these are prone to condensation just like plaster. PVC is just more practical for bathrooms...oh, and forget about the old pvc myth, the modern pvc panels just look stunning (get yourself updated).

Regarding the presence of glass not having any effect in the amount of heat loss - I must have read something about a 75% glazing rule somewhere - but sorry I'm just not bothered at the moment to find out the data (get yourself updated)....just common sense would be enough to figure out that your assumption (the glazing surface is irrelevant) is unfounded - if not why suggesting to use triple glazing?! That in fact should be the first priority; then perhaps it would make more sense using thicker Celotex panels for the rest of the bathroom - at least losing precious room volume would be justified.

better to put the celotex on the outside of the walls,
then the walls become a heat store.

But you'd have to waterproof them,
and the roof overhang may not work.

Removing plaster is great fun,
i'v got a special angled 4inch attachment for my SDS drill
and i've been having great fun with it today!

http://www.amazon.com/Insulate-Weath.../dp/1561585548

Insulate & Weatherize (Taunton's Build Like a Pro) [Paperback]
Bruce Harley (Author)




[g]