Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does
this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

Many thanks...
A

Well, I imagine its slightly worse, but from one of mine here its not much
according to a thermometer pressed against the glass, about 1 degree
different to the next pane at -11 outseide when I last tried it.
Not entirely scientific of course...
grin

I can see a hair line crack, or rather I've had it seen for me, but as its
not got any bigger, I'm also loathe to do much as the make of window is now
so old its probably a window replacement job.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Al Shahadie" wrote in message
...
Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does
this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

Many thanks...
A

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
:

I can see a hair line crack, or rather I've had it seen for me, but as
its not got any bigger, I'm also loathe to do much as the make of
window is now so old its probably a window replacement job.

Thanks for the reply.

I would think you could easily get a made-to-measure sealed unit to fit
your window. Perhaps someone here can confirm this.

A

On 15 Sep 2012 12:20:35 GMT
Al Shahadie wrote:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
:

I can see a hair line crack, or rather I've had it seen for me, but
as its not got any bigger, I'm also loathe to do much as the make of
window is now so old its probably a window replacement job.

Thanks for the reply.

I would think you could easily get a made-to-measure sealed unit to
fit your window. Perhaps someone here can confirm this.

A

Yes. We recently had our two old kitchen windows replaced, as they were
almost falling out on their own, and the carpenter made up two new
oak-framed windows, and had double-glazed panes made to fit.
--
Davey.

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:48:28 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:
Good day..



I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside

its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does

this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly

reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new

sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.



Many thanks...

A

If there's any difference at all its trivial


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:48:28 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:
Good day..



I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside

its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed.
Does

this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly

reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new

sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.



Many thanks...

A

If there's any difference at all its trivial


NT


Apart from looking a bloody mess.

wrote:
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:48:28 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:
Good day..



I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside

its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does

this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly

reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new

sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.



Many thanks...

A

If there's any difference at all its trivial


well not quite.

The difference between argon filled, vacuum, and air is significant.

Whether it's worth the cost of a new panel is a quite detailed
calculation, however.




NT


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:09:49 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
meow2222 wrote:

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:48:28 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:

Good day..







I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside



its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does



this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly



reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new



sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.







Many thanks...



A



If there's any difference at all its trivial





well not quite.



The difference between argon filled, vacuum, and air is significant.

To some extent, sure, though I think we can forget about vacuum here. But any gas in the unit will have been lost long before it started to mist. It pretty well always is.


Whether it's worth the cost of a new panel is a quite detailed

calculation, however.

Not too hard to look up u values for air versus argon dg, estimate an average winter temp and calcualte the difference in heat loss and cost. Not worth it though.

In principle they can be demisted by drilling a hole at the bottom of the exterior pane and plugging it with fine sand with a tiny bit of epoxy added. The porous plug allows very gradual air exchange with outdoors, and since air in the panel is warmer, and outdoor air at most 100%RH, the panel's air will become drier over time and very slowly clear.


NT

On Sep 15, 8:48*pm, wrote:
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:09:49 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
meow2222 wrote:

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:48:28 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:

Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside

its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed.. Does

this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly

reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new

sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation..

Many thanks...

A

If there's any difference at all its trivial

well not quite.

The difference between argon filled, vacuum, and air is significant.

To some extent, sure, though I think we can forget about vacuum here. But any gas in the unit will have been lost long before it started to mist. It pretty well always is.

Whether it's worth the cost of a new panel is a quite detailed

calculation, however.

Not too hard to look up u values for air versus argon dg, estimate an average winter temp and calcualte the difference in heat loss and cost. Not worth it though.

In principle they can be demisted by drilling a hole at the bottom of the exterior pane and plugging it with fine sand with a tiny bit of epoxy added. The porous plug allows very gradual air exchange with outdoors, and since air in the panel is warmer, and outdoor air at most 100%RH, the panel's air will become drier over time and very slowly clear.

NT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The reason argon is better than air is because it is more viscous.
This slows down internal convection currents that help the heat
escape.
Littleto do with conductivity.

On 15/09/2012 12:48, Al Shahadie wrote:

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does

Yup - they need to be totally air tight to prevent condensation...
(normally they are purged and filled with dry gas prior to sealing
during manufacture)

this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced?

Probably not... it depends a bit on what sort of unit it was in the
first place. The highest insulation value modern units are filled with
argon rather than air - this adds a small gain in performance. If you
have lost the seal then you can assume that you now have ordinary air in
the gap and so will lost the slight advantage the argon may have given
(if you had it in the first place!). Also damp air will conduct heat a
little better than dry air.

I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A

"Al Shahadie" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking idea.
Well done for finking of this solution.

"Mr Pounder" wrote in news:k328sn$9ta$1
@dont-email.me:

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking idea.
Well done for finking of this solution.

Can anyone recommend a suitable type of drill bit that won't break the
bank? I don't think I've ever tried drilling through glass before.

A

Al Shahadie presented the following explanation :
"Mr Pounder" wrote in news:k328sn$9ta$1
@dont-email.me:

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking idea.
Well done for finking of this solution.

Can anyone recommend a suitable type of drill bit that won't break the
bank? I don't think I've ever tried drilling through glass before.

A

You do not drill the glass, you drill the edge of the seal.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

"Al Shahadie" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking idea.
Well done for finking of this solution.

How do you get 'warm dry air' ?

Jim Hawkins explained :
"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

"Al Shahadie" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking idea.
Well done for finking of this solution.

How do you get 'warm dry air' ?

By recirculating it through a box, which is filled with dry silical
gel.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Jim Hawkins" wrote in
:


Yes of course you can. This will work very well indeed. A cracking
idea. Well done for finking of this solution.

How do you get 'warm dry air' ?

Hair dryer, on a dry day? The one I have would be easy to attach a flexible
tube to...

A

Al Shahadie formulated the question :
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A

You could experiment with some plastic fish tank air tubing, a fish
tank pump, a tin box filled with dry silica gell and a two holes in
opposite corners of the panel's seals.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:56:25 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Al Shahadie formulated the question :
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A

You could experiment with some plastic fish tank air tubing, a fish
tank pump, a tin box filled with dry silica gell and a two holes in
opposite corners of the panel's seals.

And plug the holes with silicone?
I thought of something along those lines for the failed unit I have,
but it doesn't address the original leak and I have no idea where it
is.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Graham. pretended :
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:56:25 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Al Shahadie formulated the question :
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk:

From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

A

You could experiment with some plastic fish tank air tubing, a fish
tank pump, a tin box filled with dry silica gell and a two holes in
opposite corners of the panel's seals.

And plug the holes with silicone?
I thought of something along those lines for the failed unit I have,
but it doesn't address the original leak and I have no idea where it
is.

Then re-seal it all of the way round.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:56:20 PM UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:56:25 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote




Al Shahadie formulated the question :

John Rumm wrote in

o.uk:



From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in

a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.



Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the

condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through

the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.



A



You could experiment with some plastic fish tank air tubing, a fish

tank pump, a tin box filled with dry silica gell and a two holes in

opposite corners of the panel's seals.



And plug the holes with silicone?

I thought of something along those lines for the failed unit I have,

but it doesn't address the original leak and I have no idea where it

is.

Indeed. You need to either reseal the whole thing in a way that'll last, or else have it unsealed with the air path leading to the outside, not the interior. The latter is easier.


NT

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:54:01 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:
John Rumm wrote in

o.uk:
From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

It's certainly been done - e.g.
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/window.html
(no responsibility accepted if the pane shatters when you try to drill it, though!)

On 19/09/2012 18:13, wrote:
On Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:54:01 PM UTC+1, Al Shahadie wrote:
John Rumm wrote in

o.uk:
From a cost perspective - you would not regain the cost of the unit in
a reasonable timespan. Hence it really comes down to aesthetics.

Thanks for your input. I'm now wondering if I can eliminate the
condensation in some way, say by drilling acouple of small holes through
the glass, say in opposite corners, and blowing warm dry air through.

It's certainly been done - e.g.
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/window.html
(no responsibility accepted if the pane shatters when you try to drill it, though!)


I posted more than 10 years ago that DG is surrounded by crap statistics
..... had 17 units fail in my house at that time .... totally wiping out
any cost saving.

I am in a new house ...and after 6 years they have started failing, in
fact 2 of them have been replaced twice.

It is always the side of house facing the sun ... 9 failed so far.


I tried "Crystal Clear - Fog Away" they came along drilled holes in DG
unit front face, sprayed in a chemical cleaner to clean inside (good
job) ... and fitted a small valve.

The idea being over a couple of weeks unit would settle down .... all of
them were still fogging up .... and have now been replaced.

I also have a glass patent glazing roof in centre of house ... with 4m
long DG panes .... these were manufactured & installed by Pilkington
..... 4 so far have failed.
2 failed in first 18 months.




Office blocks seems to have much better results .... are commercial
units simply much better made ?

John Rumm wrote:

The highest insulation value modern units are filled with
argon rather than air - this adds a small gain in performance.

Had a cold caller recently trying to get me to replace my
existing units with argon-filled. He was adamant that these would
"lose no heat at all". When I suggested that this was against the
laws of physics, he was unable to comprehend the problem.

Similarly, when I suggested that any marginal improvement in
performance would have no chance of paying for itself in my
lifetime, he seemed unable to cope with the concept.

Don't think he was really cut out for the job.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Sunday, September 16, 2012 8:39:50 AM UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Had a cold caller recently trying to get me to replace my
existing units with argon-filled. He was adamant that these would
"lose no heat at all". When I suggested that this was against the
laws of physics, he was unable to comprehend the problem.

Similarly, when I suggested that any marginal improvement in
performance would have no chance of paying for itself in my
lifetime, he seemed unable to cope with the concept.

Don't think he was really cut out for the job.

I don't see why you conclude that. His job is to sell to people who /can't/ ask intelligent questions; his only real failing was that he should have moved on as soon as you raised the first issue.

Martin Bonner wrote:

I don't see why you conclude that. His job is to sell to people who /can't/ ask intelligent questions; his only real failing was that he should have moved on as soon as you raised the first issue.

I see what you mean.

Some of my recent "Your computer is sending us error messages"
callers must have a very well-tuned ear. I have only got as far
as responding "That doesn't sound good." before they hang up. I
had no need to ask them to identify which of my computers was
worrying them.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article , Martin Bonner wrote:
On Sunday, September 16, 2012 8:39:50 AM UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Had a cold caller recently trying to get me to replace my
existing units with argon-filled. He was adamant that these would
"lose no heat at all". When I suggested that this was against the
laws of physics, he was unable to comprehend the problem.

Similarly, when I suggested that any marginal improvement in
performance would have no chance of paying for itself in my
lifetime, he seemed unable to cope with the concept.

Don't think he was really cut out for the job.

I don't see why you conclude that. His job is to sell to people who /can't/ ask intelligent questions; his only real failing was that he should have moved on as soon as you raised the first issue.

I had a solar thermal salesman insist that while the panels couldn't be
expected to supply enough heat to heat a house, I could easily run an
underfloor heating system that heats a whole house off them.

Not only didn't he understand the contradiction, he complained that I was
wasting his time when I wasn't interested in buying immediately.

(Which in a sense I was. But if their lead generation system can't tell
that when I tell a cold caller "I'm not interested in buying now but if
you really still want to send an engineer round I'll talk to him" I don't
mean "send a clueless saleman and I'll sign up now", that's their problem.
And some of the brochures from their kit suppliers were quite interesting,
so my time wasn't totally wasted.)

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
On 15/09/2012 12:48, Al Shahadie wrote:

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does

Yup - they need to be totally air tight to prevent condensation...
(normally they are purged and filled with dry gas prior to sealing
during manufacture)

Don't know if they really bother with dry air, but the spacers
contain desiccant. By the time it mists up, it's been leaking
long enough for the desiccant to have saturated and stopped working.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sep 15, 12:48*pm, Al Shahadie wrote:
Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does
this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

Many thanks...
A


It's mostly an appearance thing unless they are gas filled.
There is a dessicant in a aluminium spacer in most windows (if you
look you can see tiny holes inside).
Not only is it leaking,the dessicant is used up.

You can take the unit out and take to glaziers and they will make up a
new on for you.

On Sep 15, 6:08*pm, harry wrote:
On Sep 15, 12:48*pm, Al Shahadie wrote:

Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does
this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

Many thanks...
A

It's mostly an appearance thing unless they are gas filled.
There is a desiccant in a aluminium spacer in most windows (if you
look you can see tiny holes inside).
Not only is it leaking, the desiccant is used up.

If you can get the desiccant out you can cook it dry then pour it back
in, if you can pour it back in.

You can take the unit out and take to glaziers and they will make up a
new on for you.

Getting the right width is crucial as the spacing strip that goes
around it after you put the unit back in is different gauge for
different units.

Or was a long time ago. I haven't touched one in sooooo long....
the whole design could be different from what I remember.

It's always difficult to start a drill on glass without using a centre punch.

In article ,
Al Shahadie writes:
Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation inside
its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer sealed. Does
this mean that its thermal insulation properties are now significantly
reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is worth paying out for new
sealed units or not. I can put up with the sight of the condensation.

Most common cause of seal failure in double glazed units is the
edge of the units sitting in a puddle in the frame, caused by
the frame drainage not working. The units should be sitting on
spacers to lift them clear of the drainage channels, and the
channels need to be able to drain out. (Note that the outside
frame seals against the glass are not expected to be waterproof,
and some water is expected to get into the frame, but it must
be able to drain away.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:k35i5a$9ip$2
@dont-email.me:

Most common cause of seal failure in double glazed units is the
edge of the units sitting in a puddle in the frame, caused by
the frame drainage not working. The units should be sitting on
spacers to lift them clear of the drainage channels, and the
channels need to be able to drain out. (Note that the outside
frame seals against the glass are not expected to be waterproof,
and some water is expected to get into the frame, but it must
be able to drain away.)


That's useful to know. Thanks for that. I will drill a coupla drainage
holes if necessary...

I'm still hoping someone can advise on the best drill bit for drilling
through glass. They pros who cure misted units by injecting demister appear
to use some kind of large dremmel-like tool with some kind of bit that
looks like grind-stone material or similar, about 5mm dia.

Thanks to all for the replies. You guys are the usenet's best!

A

On 17/09/2012 08:34, Al Shahadie wrote:
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:k35i5a$9ip$2
@dont-email.me:

Most common cause of seal failure in double glazed units is the
edge of the units sitting in a puddle in the frame, caused by
the frame drainage not working. The units should be sitting on
spacers to lift them clear of the drainage channels, and the
channels need to be able to drain out. (Note that the outside
frame seals against the glass are not expected to be waterproof,
and some water is expected to get into the frame, but it must
be able to drain away.)


That's useful to know. Thanks for that. I will drill a coupla drainage
holes if necessary...

I'm still hoping someone can advise on the best drill bit for drilling
through glass. They pros who cure misted units by injecting demister appear
to use some kind of large dremmel-like tool with some kind of bit that
looks like grind-stone material or similar, about 5mm dia.

Depending on how many times you want to use the 'drill' (it's actually a
grinding device rather than a conventional twist drill) then either use
a cheapie 'dremel-accessory' diamond burr, or a proper diamond core
drill (hollow tube with diamonds embedded - more expensive).

The core drill is best used in a drill press, and both types of drill
need water for lubrication / cooling - otherwise you'll find that the
diamonds will become separated from the 'drill' and you won;t get anywhere.

In stained / fused glass, I build a round dam (Blu-tack) around the site
of the hole, and fill it with water (or immerse the whole piece in water
if it's small enough). Use a drill press (fairly slow speed) and work in
short bursts, allowing the 'drill' to cool and adding fresh water as
necessary.

If you're trying to do it in situ then it will be more difficult to keep
the water where you need it.

If you're unlucky and the glass is toughened then it'll shatter. Eye
protection, gloves etc might be a good plan..

Seems like a lot of effort when replacement sealed unit are cheaply
available..

Adrian

In article , Al Shahadie
writes
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:k35i5a$9ip$2
:

Most common cause of seal failure in double glazed units is the
edge of the units sitting in a puddle in the frame, caused by
the frame drainage not working. The units should be sitting on
spacers to lift them clear of the drainage channels, and the
channels need to be able to drain out. (Note that the outside
frame seals against the glass are not expected to be waterproof,
and some water is expected to get into the frame, but it must
be able to drain away.)


That's useful to know. Thanks for that. I will drill a coupla drainage
holes if necessary...

I'm still hoping someone can advise on the best drill bit for drilling
through glass. They pros who cure misted units by injecting demister appear
to use some kind of large dremmel-like tool with some kind of bit that
looks like grind-stone material or similar, about 5mm dia.

'Glass bit' eg:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p13884
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

fred wrote in :

'Glass bit' eg:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p13884

Thanks...
A

On 17/09/2012 08:34, Al Shahadie wrote:
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:k35i5a$9ip$2
@dont-email.me:

Most common cause of seal failure in double glazed units is the
edge of the units sitting in a puddle in the frame, caused by
the frame drainage not working. The units should be sitting on
spacers to lift them clear of the drainage channels, and the
channels need to be able to drain out. (Note that the outside
frame seals against the glass are not expected to be waterproof,
and some water is expected to get into the frame, but it must
be able to drain away.)


That's useful to know. Thanks for that. I will drill a coupla drainage
holes if necessary...

I'm still hoping someone can advise on the best drill bit for drilling
through glass. They pros who cure misted units by injecting demister appear
to use some kind of large dremmel-like tool with some kind of bit that
looks like grind-stone material or similar, about 5mm dia.

Thanks to all for the replies. You guys are the usenet's best!

A

I don't know whether I'm missing something but, for the life of me, I
can't think why anyone would want to drill through the glass. You'd
almost certainly have to take the sealed unit out of the frame to do
this safely - in which case, why not simply drill through the spacer?

Incidentally, if you talk to a sealed unit supplier about the merits of
trying to remove condensation by blowing dry air through it, they will
tell you that the condensation will leave a stain on the inside of the
glass, so it won't quite look 'as new'. I know that "they would say
that, wouldn't they?" because they'd like to sell you a new unit - but
they might just have a point.

Nevertheless, I'm considering having a go at some of my conservatory
windows when I've assembled a sufficient quantity of round tuits.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On 15.09.2012 13:48, Al Shahadie wrote:
Good day..

I've noticed that one of my double-glazed windows has condensation
inside its sealed units. I gather this means that they are no longer
sealed. Does this mean that its thermal insulation properties are
now significantly reduced? I'm trying to determine whether it is
worth paying out for new sealed units or not. I can put up with the
sight of the condensation.

Let me tell you how I fixed that problem.
The window is 150 x 210 cm double glass and it had condensation inside.
I opened it with a thin knife and cleaned both panes well. I left the
last finish of cleaning to my wife and that was by big mistake. My wife
was not very exited by my project and that may the the reason why she
now was a bit sloppy. When the panes had got new seal and was mounted,
we discovered that a spot in the center needed more cleaning.

Thus I had to do the whole job once more. Then came the big accident.
One of the panes broke when resting on some wood while the morning sun
heated it. The local heat created to much tension. I then had to order
brand new panes with seal. Please observe that I mounted this big window
alone without any assistance.

I learned a lot from the project, and would have done all the cleaning
by myself if I had to do the job once more. I think you should open your
window and get rid of that condensation.
--
jo
"Academics that are climate denialists testify that
education can sometimes be wasted." --Jo Stein