I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.


--
Peter Crosland

On 22/08/2012 19:58, Peter Crosland wrote:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

Forget starters and get a high frequency electronic ballast. I haven't
looked back since I posted the thread below in 2010 and the light works
every time.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...-y/e8VQuTuKqa8

On 22/08/2012 20:25, Part Timer wrote:
On 22/08/2012 19:58, Peter Crosland wrote:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

Forget starters and get a high frequency electronic ballast. I haven't
looked back since I posted the thread below in 2010 and the light works
every time.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...-y/e8VQuTuKqa8




Also
http://users.tpg.com.au/pschamb/light.html

and if you want instant start (with a slight womfff noise from the fitting)
http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...be-starter.asp
--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Aug 22, 9:16*pm, alan wrote:
On 22/08/2012 20:25, Part Timer wrote:



On 22/08/2012 19:58, Peter Crosland wrote:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

Forget starters and get a high frequency electronic ballast. I haven't
looked back since I posted the thread below in 2010 and the light works
every time.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...topic/uk.d-i-y...

Alsohttp://users.tpg.com.au/pschamb/light.html

and if you want instant start (with a slight womfff noise from the fitting)http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

last tiem I got fed up with starters I just replaced it with a switch
& small capacitor.


NT

On 22/08/2012 21:16, alan wrote:
On 22/08/2012 20:25, Part Timer wrote:
On 22/08/2012 19:58, Peter Crosland wrote:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

Forget starters and get a high frequency electronic ballast. I haven't
looked back since I posted the thread below in 2010 and the light works
every time.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...-y/e8VQuTuKqa8



Also
http://users.tpg.com.au/pschamb/light.html

and if you want instant start (with a slight womfff noise from the fitting)
http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...be-starter.asp

Most helpful and I have ordered some. Many thanks. If anyone has any
comments on the original question I would still be interested.



--
Peter Crosland

In article ,
Peter Crosland writes:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

I think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer, or if manufactured
outside the EU, the responsibility of the importer to the EU.

The CE mark isn't any guarantee the product works.

Are you sure the starters were for the correct tube rating?
Are these for long tubes in cold locations?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Peter Crosland writes:
I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive
observations welcomed.

I think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer, or if manufactured
outside the EU, the responsibility of the importer to the EU.

The CE mark isn't any guarantee the product works.

indeed not. it stands for Chinese Export

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Dec 20, 1:02*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Peter Crosland writes:

I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

I think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer, or if manufactured
outside the EU, the responsibility of the importer to the EU.

Correct.

The CE mark isn't any guarantee the product works.

Nor of any particular quality.

The mark does not neccessarily have to be on the goods. If not, it
must be on the packaging or documentation.

MBQ

On 20/12/2012 13:32, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Dec 20, 1:02 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Crosland writes:

I bought a pack of two of these from my village hardware shop a few
weeks ago and both have failed. No big deal costwise but it is an
agravation to change them. I noticed that neither the packing or the
starters were CE or BS marked. I had thought that this was a legal
requirement in the UK. Googling confirms this so wondered if it was
actually legal to sell them in the UK. I assume it is too trivial a
matter for Trading Standards to be interested. Constructive observations
welcomed.

I think it's the responsibility of the manufacturer, or if manufactured
outside the EU, the responsibility of the importer to the EU.

Correct.

The CE mark isn't any guarantee the product works.

Nor of any particular quality.

The mark does not neccessarily have to be on the goods. If not, it
must be on the packaging or documentation.

Not on the packing either. I spoke to TS and their answer was basically TS!

--
Regards Peter Crosland

On 20 Dec 2012 16:46:52 GMT, Huge wrote:


And if it came from China, it's no proof of anything whatsoever.

Yes it is, it stands for "Chinese Export" :-)

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 13:08:02 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

The CE mark isn't any guarantee the product works.

indeed not. it stands for Chinese Export

It can, but that is not the same as CE, nor the same as CE, it's all in the
length of the horizontal in the E and the separation between the C and the E

CE Mark

http://www.cemarkingassociation.co.u...arking_009.gif

CE mark vs China Export

http://www.boatingbusiness.com/__dat...s/carousel.jpg



--

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2012-12-20, Peter Parry wrote:
On 20 Dec 2012 16:46:52 GMT, Huge wrote:


And if it came from China, it's no proof of anything whatsoever.

Yes it is, it stands for "Chinese Export" :-)

*grin*

Caveat Emptor is another one - "Let the buyer beware"...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2012-12-20, Peter Parry wrote:
On 20 Dec 2012 16:46:52 GMT, Huge wrote:

And if it came from China, it's no proof of anything whatsoever.

Yes it is, it stands for "Chinese Export" :-)


Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life buying goods with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any way.

It reminds me of the US warnings against buying drugs from Canada, something along the lines of 'don't buy them because we can't guarantee they're safe.' Well, who cares if its the US or CDN legal framework that oversees their safety. I don't think a CE mark guarantees the consumer much of anything.


NT

On Dec 21, 1:21*pm, wrote:
Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life
buying goods with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any way.

But would you have necessarily noticed a problem? A classic issue is
EMC: often a non-compliant product (with inadequate filtering, or with
the filtering components omitted) will appear to be working perfectly
well to the end user - it's the poor radio amateur living next door
who will be suffering!

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 21/12/2012 13:21, wrote:
On 2012-12-20, Peter Parry wrote:
On 20 Dec 2012 16:46:52 GMT, Huge
wrote:

And if it came from China, it's no proof of anything
whatsoever.

Yes it is, it stands for "Chinese Export" :-)


Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life buying goods
with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any way.

It reminds me of the US warnings against buying drugs from Canada,
something along the lines of 'don't buy them because we can't
guarantee they're safe.' Well, who cares if its the US or CDN legal
framework that oversees their safety. I don't think a CE mark
guarantees the consumer much of anything.


NT

I actually had thought that the Canada issues were things like bogus
pharmacies, fake medicines, etc. rather than simply "different
regulatory regime".

--
Rod

On Friday, December 21, 2012 2:03:33 PM UTC, Richard Russell wrote:
On Dec 21, 1:21 pm, wrote:

Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life
buying goods with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any way.

But would you have necessarily noticed a problem? A classic issue is
EMC: often a non-compliant product (with inadequate filtering, or with
the filtering components omitted) will appear to be working perfectly
well to the end user - it's the poor radio amateur living next door
who will be suffering!
Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to foreign info is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-filter days.

But my main point is that a CE sticker has not a whole lot to do with RFI filtering, safety, reliability, function or anything else. Anyone can and usually does mark their products 'CE.'


NT

In article ,
scribeth thus
On Friday, December 21, 2012 2:03:33 PM UTC, Richard Russell wrote:
On Dec 21, 1:21 pm, wrote:

Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life
buying goods with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any
way.

But would you have necessarily noticed a problem? A classic issue is
EMC: often a non-compliant product (with inadequate filtering, or with
the filtering components omitted) will appear to be working perfectly
well to the end user - it's the poor radio amateur living next door
who will be suffering!
Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to foreign info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-filter
days.


Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

NT

--
Tony Sayer

On Friday, December 21, 2012 5:53:40 PM UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
scribeth thus
On Friday, December 21, 2012 2:03:33 PM UTC, Richard Russell wrote:
On Dec 21, 1:21 pm, wrote:

Does CE marking matter much? I've spent much of my life
buying goods with no CE markings, and I've not found it a problem in any
way.

But would you have necessarily noticed a problem? A classic issue is
EMC: often a non-compliant product (with inadequate filtering, or with
the filtering components omitted) will appear to be working perfectly
well to the end user - it's the poor radio amateur living next door
who will be suffering!
Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to foreign info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,' but
a) most UKers didnt experience problems with fm interference in the 60s, 70s and 80s
b) radio hams are more shortwave than uhf
c) research always recommends spending more money on research


NT

In article ,
writes:

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,' but
a) most UKers didnt experience problems with fm interference in the 60s, 70s and 80s

My parents did - there was a radio ham a couple of houses up the
road and he came through quite loudly on the HiFi speakers even
when it was turned off! We didn't actually mind at all - heard
all about his holidays, and what he was up to. One day my dad
mentioned it to him and he was very concerned, but said we wouldn't
be able to understand it as it was all single side band. So we told
him about his holidays... (it did sound somewhat donald-duck-like).
He rushed round with a large box of ferrite cores and wound all the
speaker leads, mains leads, etc through them, and it helped a lot,
but still some slight break-though. We didn't actually mind at all,
but if we had complained, it could have caused problems for the
planning permission for his aerial, which had to be renewed every
5 years.

One neighbour did always complain, but that was about the look of
it, not interference. He was then required to take the aerial down
when not in use. The aerial was just a long wire, held up by a tall
mast and guy ropes. So he replaced the wire with a string and pullies
to pull the wire over the mast when in use, and pull a draw-string
back over the mast when not in use. It didn't look any different
either way, but it met the new planning regs!

b) radio hams are more shortwave than uhf
c) research always recommends spending more money on research


NT

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to foreign
info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-
filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,'

PLA devices...

a) most UKers didnt experience problems with fm interference in the 60s, 70s and
80s

Interference to what or to whom?. If this relates to PLA's they weren't
around then;!...

b) radio hams are more shortwave than uhf

Not necessarily, more like the other way around in the UK I'd expect..
I'm not one BTW...

c) research always recommends spending more money on research

Http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf

Well this is about the first bit of serious research that has been done
in the UK relating to the VHF bands. Some has been done elsewhere.

It does demonstrate an increased "noise floor"...

--
Tony Sayer

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
writes:

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,' but
a) most UKers didnt experience problems with fm interference in the 60s, 70s
and 80s

My parents did - there was a radio ham a couple of houses up the
road and he came through quite loudly on the HiFi speakers even
when it was turned off! We didn't actually mind at all - heard
all about his holidays, and what he was up to. One day my dad
mentioned it to him and he was very concerned, but said we wouldn't
be able to understand it as it was all single side band. So we told
him about his holidays... (it did sound somewhat donald-duck-like).
He rushed round with a large box of ferrite cores and wound all the
speaker leads, mains leads, etc through them, and it helped a lot,
but still some slight break-though. We didn't actually mind at all,
but if we had complained, it could have caused problems for the
planning permission for his aerial, which had to be renewed every
5 years.

Most all of that is accidental demodulation caused by semi conducting
devices responding to signals they should not respond to. Its now for
most equipment a thing of the past owing to better EMC awareness. It can
be demonstrated by placing an operating mobile phone next to such as a
speakerphone or a computer speaker where the distinctive buzzing of the
QAM signal will be heard....



One neighbour did always complain, but that was about the look of
it, not interference. He was then required to take the aerial down
when not in use. The aerial was just a long wire, held up by a tall
mast and guy ropes. So he replaced the wire with a string and pullies
to pull the wire over the mast when in use, and pull a draw-string
back over the mast when not in use. It didn't look any different
either way, but it met the new planning regs!

Yes I have seen more then the one case of ""~interference~"" even when
the mains hadn't been connected to the new site let alone any equipment
installed;!...

--
Tony Sayer

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:30:54 AM UTC, tony sayer wrote:

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to foreign
info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-
filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,'
PLA devices...

Sorry but what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with this?

Http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf


NT

On 22/12/12 11:35, tony sayer wrote:

Yes I have seen more then the one case of ""~interference~"" even when
the mains hadn't been connected to the new site let alone any equipment
installed;!...



Indeed. As many people have pointed out the new restrictions on fracking
will halt it if it causes more than a 0.5 Richter scale seismic event.

There are over a dozen earthquakes of Richter scale 2+ in the UK every
year :-)

Gonna be hard to prove..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
scribeth thus
On Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:30:54 AM UTC, tony sayer wrote:

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to
foreign
info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-
filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,'
PLA devices...

Sorry but what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with this?

Http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf


NT

This above or below or elsewhere or the definition of PLA's or the
effects of same?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:21:30 PM UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
scribeth thus
On Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:30:54 AM UTC, tony sayer wrote:

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to
foreign
info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the pre-
filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,'
PLA devices...

Sorry but what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with this?

Http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf


NT
This above or below or elsewhere or the definition of PLA's or the
effects of same?..

My question is what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with the valuelessness of CE marking.

In article ,
scribeth thus
On Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:21:30 PM UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
scribeth thus
On Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:30:54 AM UTC, tony sayer wrote:

I and others have owned lots of equipment that generates RFI, and its
only
seldom an issue in practice. Radio hams are few nowadays, access to
foreign
info
is 1000x easier and better by internet. And most hams did ok in the
pre-
filter
days.

Err No .. they cause a fair old bit of interference on FM and DAB, there
is a very good BBC research paper on the effects of these devices if you
want me to look it up just ask...

I'm not clear what you mean by 'they,'
PLA devices...

Sorry but what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with this?

Http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf


NT
This above or below or elsewhere or the definition of PLA's or the
effects of same?..

My question is what does the use of power line adaptors have to do with the
valuelessness of CE marking.

Soz missed that bit . Still CE marking is just that a mark that means
feck all....

--
Tony Sayer