Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
dovetail marking
I don't make dovetails, so this may be a dumb question, but in
perusing currently posted linked sites of recent work, I noticed in looking at some really beautiful dovetail joints the still aparant marking line along the bottom of the tails. I understand a scored line is superior to a marked line where the tails are, to guide a chisel accurately. But why not mark out the angled lines first, or score them first, and then score only where you will be chiseling, so as to leave no mark when done? Or mark all the lines first and then score only where cuts will be? This has long been bugging me, since the first time I saw the method laid out in pictures, anyone have an idea on this? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Gary DeWitt wrote:
I don't make dovetails, so this may be a dumb question, but in perusing currently posted linked sites of recent work, I noticed in looking at some really beautiful dovetail joints the still aparant marking line along the bottom of the tails. I understand a scored line is superior to a marked line where the tails are, to guide a chisel accurately. But why not mark out the angled lines first, or score them first, and then score only where you will be chiseling, so as to leave no mark when done? Or mark all the lines first and then score only where cuts will be? This has long been bugging me, since the first time I saw the method laid out in pictures, anyone have an idea on this? If nothing else, the marked lines show that the DTs were made by hand rather than by machine. As for the why not only where you're going to chisel question, try making them both ways sometime. Yes, I know you don't make them, but try. The reason will be immediately apparent, 'sides, you might just decide you like cutting your own. Dave in Fairfax -- Dave Leader reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ PATINA http://www.Patinatools.org/ |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Dingley wrote:
We*now*have the question of whether a deliberately visible dovetail should have the marking line or not ?**IMHO,*it's*an*affectation.*If*my*dovetails are any good, then judge them on how they're cut, not whether I drew an arrow pointing to them. Agreed. It's always struck me as a flaw, not as asset. In fact, if the dovetails look good, I don't care if they were made by hnad or machine, or gnawed out by a beaver. -- Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
I agree with LJ. I think a score line across the grain looks like crap. I
prefer using a marking knife, but I'll use a pencil for that mark. You can mark the inside with a knife and it does not show. It's just the outside that's a problem. -Steve |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Gary DeWitt" wrote :I don't make dovetails, so this may be a dumb question, but in : perusing currently posted linked sites of recent work, I noticed in : looking at some really beautiful dovetail joints the still aparant : marking line along the bottom of the tails. On medium quality work, this is sometimes tolerated on drawer sides where the maker's technique does not require much planing of the sides, otherwise as others have said it is an affectation. : .................................................. I understand a scored line : is superior to a marked line where the tails are, to guide a chisel : accurately. Quite so, though sometimes the line is cut with a cutting gauge (or marking gauge adapted to cut). : ..................But why not mark out the angled lines first, or score them : first, and then score only where you will be chiseling, so as to leave : no mark when done? A fairly common practice among careful workers, in fact. A knife line can be made right across the inside face of the workpiece and on the outer face, a pencil line temporarily indicates the depth of the pins/sockets until the elements are sawn. It is then fairly easy to pick up a knife line marked across the edge and cut between the sawcuts. Alternatively one can use the technique outlined on my web site - Projects - A bookcase in oak - A Strategy for the Dovetail joints. In brief this requires that the units are made slightly full in thickness, thus enabling a gauge line to be made right across the outside faces and subsequently planed off. There are other advantages to this technique. Incidentally this technique is very suitable for drawer making where the drawer front is made to fit its opening. Since Gimson and the Barnsleys have been mentioned, I was trained at Loughborough when Edward Barnsley was the visiting design/technique adviser. We did not show the remains of cut lines between dovetail pins. Jeff G -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK Email: username is amgron ISP is clara.co.uk www.amgron.clara.net |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 26 Nov 2004 06:53:36 -0800, (Nate Perkins) wrote: Don't believe the posters who tell you that leaving them in is a sign of sloppy work or an affectation -- plenty of fine craftsmen leave them in (pick up a copy of FWW and look at half of the work there, or any work by Chris Becksvoort). I don't recall any work by Chris Becksvoort that used visible dovetails (ie not just drawers) and had the marking-out lines visible. http://www.chbecksvoort.com/tbeckdiff.html from his own website (second photo from the top). Shows an applied molding on a traditional case; the scribes are right on the top surface of the case. Not just him, either: Lonnie Bird: FWW July/Aug 2004 p67 (Pennsylvania tall clock, sides around the clock face) Chris Gochnour: FWW Mar/Apr 2004 p36 (traditional tool chest, left on all corners) Michael Pekovich: FWW June 2004 p49 (base of chest of drawers) In the June 2003 FWW on page 39 there's an interesting photo: a flush drawer with scribes retained, and a lipped drawer with them removed. The intent of the photo is to contrast different styles. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
On 26 Nov 2004 21:52:21 -0800, (Nate Perkins)
wrote: I don't recall any work by Chris Becksvoort that used visible dovetails (ie not just drawers) and had the marking-out lines visible. http://www.chbecksvoort.com/tbeckdiff.html from his own website (second photo from the top). Shows an applied molding on a traditional case; the scribes are right on the top surface of the case. So where's the visible dovetail ? It has a marking line alright, but that's on the top of a wardrobe ! It's hardly a visible part of the piece - ever looked round the back of the pediment on a Goddard-Townsend secretary ? Rough as anything where it doesn't show. (You've got to love the work of someone who dovetails a moulding - now that really is a nice touch, even if the client never notices) -- Smert' spamionam |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 26 Nov 2004 21:52:21 -0800, (Nate Perkins) wrote: I don't recall any work by Chris Becksvoort that used visible dovetails (ie not just drawers) and had the marking-out lines visible. http://www.chbecksvoort.com/tbeckdiff.html from his own website (second photo from the top). Shows an applied molding on a traditional case; the scribes are right on the top surface of the case. So where's the visible dovetail ? It has a marking line alright, but that's on the top of a wardrobe ! It's hardly a visible part of the piece Why do you think that joint's at the top of a wardrobe? There are several pieces shown on that page, for the purpose of illustrating different details. And the wardrobe doesn't have the molding that's shown on the dovetail joint. The photo with the scribe line and molding is from the article he wrote for the Jan 97 issue of FWW (p54). In that article he shows the method for installing the molding on the top of a dovetailed case for a five-drawer chest. Doesn't get much more visible than that. - ever looked round the back of the pediment on a Goddard-Townsend secretary ? Rough as anything where it doesn't show. Nope, I've never seen the back of a Goddard-Townsend secretary. Heck, I've never seen one at all outside of a photo (and I had to look that up). (You've got to love the work of someone who dovetails a moulding - now that really is a nice touch, even if the client never notices) |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Nate Perkins" wrote in message om... Andy Dingley wrote in message . .. On 26 Nov 2004 21:52:21 -0800, (Nate Perkins) wrote: snip - ever looked round the back of the pediment on a Goddard-Townsend secretary ? Rough as anything where it doesn't show. Nope, I've never seen the back of a Goddard-Townsend secretary. Heck, I've never seen one at all outside of a photo (and I had to look that up). (You've got to love the work of someone who dovetails a moulding - now that really is a nice touch, even if the client never notices) They have two T-G secretaries at the Rhode Island School of Design museum. It's worth the trip to see them. You have to view them from some distance though. (10-12 feet) They did allow photography, but no flash. They also have a Stuart painting of George Washington that you could get within 2 feet to look at. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Need Dovetail Jig That Can Do Half-Blind and Through-Dovetails | Woodworking | |||
How to Make DoveTail Joints? Dovetail Saws | Woodworking | |||
Think twice before buying a Stots dovetail jig. | Woodworking |