We have a house and small shop, same building but independent utilities.
With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are turning to
perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Quite apart from seeking permission to return the shop part of the
building back to domestic use, assuming successful, what is involved in
amalgamating the electricity supply? I don't mean the actual wiring,
but disconnecting the business supply? Would the leccy company just
switch off the supply, or remove their kit, or both? Power is supplied
by overhead cable, from a pole outside on the pavement.
--
Graeme

In message , News
writes

We have a house and small shop, same building but independent
utilities. With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are
turning to perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Quite apart from seeking permission to return the shop part of the
building back to domestic use, assuming successful, what is involved in
amalgamating the electricity supply? I don't mean the actual wiring,
but disconnecting the business supply? Would the leccy company just
switch off the supply, or remove their kit, or both? Power is supplied
by overhead cable, from a pole outside on the pavement.

Don't know!

However, locally there is a high level of planning authority resistance
to a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , News
writes

We have a house and small shop, same building but independent utilities.
With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are turning to
perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Quite apart from seeking permission to return the shop part of the
building back to domestic use, assuming successful, what is involved in
amalgamating the electricity supply? I don't mean the actual wiring, but
disconnecting the business supply? Would the leccy company just switch
off the supply, or remove their kit, or both? Power is supplied by
overhead cable, from a pole outside on the pavement.

Don't know!

However, locally there is a high level of planning authority resistance to
a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just
shutting the shop and not opening it again.

On 18/07/2012 09:43, Rod Speed wrote:

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
However, locally there is a high level of planning authority
resistance to a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just
shutting the shop and not opening it again.

in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner
has to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:13:12 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

On 18/07/2012 09:43, Rod Speed wrote:

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
However, locally there is a high level of planning authority
resistance to a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just shutting the shop
and not opening it again.

in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner
has to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

Thank god there's a surplus of housing, otherwise things would be
terrible.

in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner has
to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

Not sure if it's still true but if premises which are considered unfit for
business use, then no rates are payable - which explains the number of
"semi-derelict" office blocks sometimes encountered. Once the pigeons get
in, why bother stopping them if it means you don't need to pay rates on an
empty building?

Paul DS.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 18/07/2012 09:43, Rod Speed wrote:

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
However, locally there is a high level of planning authority
resistance to a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just
shutting the shop and not opening it again.

in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner has
to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

You don't know that his isnt on that last.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

On Jul 18, 10:28*am, "Paul D Smith" wrote:
in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner has
to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

Not sure if it's still true but if premises which are considered unfit for
business use, then no rates are payable - which explains the number of
"semi-derelict" office blocks sometimes encountered. *Once the pigeons get
in, why bother stopping them if it means you don't need to pay rates on an
empty building?

Paul DS.

Unfortunately rates relief on vacant commercial property no longer
exists.

Used to get intentional vandalism to avoid rates, think had to take
out all the toilets , all but one stairway unuseable, services
diconnected. Rent-a-plant did good business covering windows of
internally totalled town centre office blocks.

Now its cheaper to totally demolish servicable buildings than pay the
rates on them,

Cheers
Adam

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , News
writes

We have a house and small shop, same building but independent
utilities. With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are
turning to perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Don't know!

grin Neither did I, but things are slowly changing. Local planning
office don't have too much of a clue, but are finding out, and will let
me know regarding change of use. Their first thoughts are that I should
market the property for a year, as proof that it is no longer viable.

The valuation office tell me that they offer 50% relief for empty shops.
I already receive, and would keep, 50% rural shop relief, so would not
pay business rates for an empty shop. Result!
--
Graeme

"Rod Speed" wrote in message ...



"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , News
writes

We have a house and small shop, same building but independent utilities.
With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are turning to
perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Quite apart from seeking permission to return the shop part of the
building back to domestic use, assuming successful, what is involved in
amalgamating the electricity supply? I don't mean the actual wiring, but
disconnecting the business supply? Would the leccy company just switch
off the supply, or remove their kit, or both? Power is supplied by
overhead cable, from a pole outside on the pavement.

Don't know!

However, locally there is a high level of planning authority resistance to
a change of use from business to domestic.

It might be best to get their views at an early stage.

They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just
shutting the shop and not opening it again.

except continue to demand that business rates are paid

tim

News wrote:
Their first thoughts are that I should market the property
for a year, as proof that it is no longer viable.

Market it as a practical proposition. When I was on the Planning
Board I used to look very unfavourably on landlords who's made
their commercial properties as unlettable as possible by removing
toilets, storage, washing facilities, windows, stairs, cupboards,
then came saying "I can't let it, boo hoo, let me convert it into
a house".

Upthread you said "return the shop part ... back to domestic use".
Do you mean "back to" or do you actually mean "back"? Are you
sure, and can you prove, that the building was built as entirely
residential, and than at some point part of it was converted to
commercial? You can only convert /back/ to residential if it
used to be residential.

JGH

In message
,
jgharston writes
News wrote:
Their first thoughts are that I should market the property
for a year, as proof that it is no longer viable.

Market it as a practical proposition. When I was on the Planning
Board I used to look very unfavourably on landlords who's made
their commercial properties as unlettable as possible by removing
toilets, storage, washing facilities, windows, stairs, cupboards,
then came saying "I can't let it, boo hoo, let me convert it into
a house".

OK, point taken.

Upthread you said "return the shop part ... back to domestic use".
Do you mean "back to" or do you actually mean "back"? Are you
sure, and can you prove, that the building was built as entirely
residential, and than at some point part of it was converted to
commercial? You can only convert /back/ to residential if it
used to be residential.

A bit of both. There was a room on the side of the kitchen, dating back
I don't know how long. Possibly when the house was built, 1880-ish.
That room was about 12 by 12 (feet!), and possibly a scullery. The room
was extended in two directions. I'll try a little ASCII art.

Public pavement

|--------------------------------------|------|-|
| (door) |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| EXTENSION |
| |
| |
| |
| |
!...............................| |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| ORIGINAL | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
|------------------------------------------------
| |
| House (kitchen) |
| |


I have the plans, which were drawn up and approved in 1978, and probably
built shortly after. I have owned the property for ten years.

--
Graeme

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , News
writes

We have a house and small shop, same building but independent
utilities. With retirement (i.e. old age) approaching, thoughts are
turning to perhaps closing the shop, and retiring.

Quite apart from seeking permission to return the shop part of the
building back to domestic use, assuming successful, what is
involved in amalgamating the electricity supply? I don't mean the
actual wiring, but disconnecting the business supply? Would the
leccy company just switch off the supply, or remove their kit, or
both? Power is supplied by overhead cable, from a pole outside on
the pavement.

Don't know!

I thought it was you that was not allowed two supplies into one of yours
barns (I could be wrong)

I suppose things vary if there are actually two supplies and the house and
shop have seperate billing addresss and meters. It's not uncommon for we to
work in an old shop with a flat upstairs that has become one house,
sometimes with a 3 phase supply where the utility just remove two fuses and
leave the incoming cut out as a 3 phase.


--
Adam

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , News
writes

Don't know!

I thought it was you that was not allowed two supplies into one of yours
barns (I could be wrong)

Me, or Tim? Not me, anyway :-)

I suppose things vary if there are actually two supplies and the house and
shop have seperate billing addresss and meters. It's not uncommon for we to
work in an old shop with a flat upstairs that has become one house,
sometimes with a 3 phase supply where the utility just remove two fuses and
leave the incoming cut out as a 3 phase.

Oh bugger. The house was built around 1880, and the shop part added in
1978. House and shop have different address, different postcode,
different utilities. Entirely separate electric meters etc., although
they are one and the same building.

I perhaps naively assumed that, if the shop becomes part of the house,
then the shop supply, fuse box and meter can be removed, and the house
rings extended to where the shop meter currently is, so that the shop
can be powered from the house, without changing any of the existing
wiring. Or possibly not.
--
Graeme

On 18/07/2012 10:44, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Jul 18, 10:28 am, "Paul D Smith" wrote:
in Australia, that may be true. In the UK, after six months, the owner has
to pay the full business rates as if the place was open and running
commercially, unless it's a very small, cheap-to-rent shop.

It's one reason that councils are now against conversion of shops into
domestic premises. The Government loses money on the deal.

Not sure if it's still true but if premises which are considered unfit for
business use, then no rates are payable - which explains the number of
"semi-derelict" office blocks sometimes encountered. Once the pigeons get
in, why bother stopping them if it means you don't need to pay rates on an
empty building?

Paul DS.

Unfortunately rates relief on vacant commercial property no longer
exists.

Used to get intentional vandalism to avoid rates, think had to take
out all the toilets , all but one stairway unuseable, services
diconnected. Rent-a-plant did good business covering windows of
internally totalled town centre office blocks.

Now its cheaper to totally demolish servicable buildings than pay the
rates on them,


Or rent to mates for 6 weeks to reset the clock, or 'meanwhile lease' to
a charity?

Rob

On 18/07/2012 09:43, Rod Speed wrote:




They wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about just
shutting the shop and not opening it again.


OK they can't force the business to open but they can stop you using it
for any other purpose ... a Material Change of Use application would
need to be submitted.

News wrote:
(snip notes and plan)

I've dug out my NEDL documents, and what you want is a
"network disconnection (single)". It's chargable, but
my paperwork doesn't say how much.

The simplest thing to do will be to remove all the
consumer side installation back to the consumer
isolator - ie, the double-pole consumer switch or
the consumer unit if no isolator switch. Then
request a network disconnection. Gurgle for
"network disconnection (your area network)"
eg "network disconnection nedl".

The plan you've down looks like the shop was
an extension at the back of the building. It
looks like an offshot kitchen has been extended
over the back yard. If that is so, and the shop
frontage does not fact front a parade of other
retail premises, it should be simple to get
Material Change of Use by Integrating Former
Retail Premesis Into Existing Residential
Premises.

Fees about £330-ish. By eliminating an address
you will also have to notify the council's
Street Naming And Numbering Officer. Do this
/after/ you've had the supply removed otherwise
the network company will deny you actually have
a supply and refuse to remove it......

JGH

In message
,
jgharston writes


All very useful - thank you.

Fees about £330-ish. By eliminating an address
you will also have to notify the council's
Street Naming And Numbering Officer. Do this
/after/ you've had the supply removed otherwise
the network company will deny you actually have
a supply and refuse to remove it......

They will deny I have a supply - but they'll continue to charge me for a
supply I don't have! :-)

--
Graeme