My home is a semi detached chalet bungalow originally built in 1956. The
upper storey was created some 25 years ago by adding a back flat roof
conversion to a previous semi- detached bungalow. The main bathroom is
downstairs on the (front) north east corner of the building and the mains
electrical panel is in a kitchen pantry at the south east corner of the
building. The switch panel is a recent Wylex unit with spare slots. Upstairs
bathroom provision consists of a cloakroom with a toilet and wash handbasin.

We are completely refitting the main bathroom and as part of this plan to
have a 10.5 kw electric shower fitted as our aging central heating boiler is
a backboiler and we wish to keep all options open (including a combination
boiler) when we consider replacement in due course. Given that the upstairs
flooring consists of 8x4 foot chipboard sheets we are daunted by the
disruption which is likely to arise from the exercise of taking a new power
supply from the switch panel to the bathroom. We realise that the cabling
required for a 10.5kw shower is thick and inflexible but would like to use a
high rated shower in order to enjoy good performance. Looking at the
possible options:-

1. Would it be legal / practical to take the wiring along the outside of the
building in conduit - this would appear to be a straightforward run of some
25 feet. The wall involved is adjacent to the (concrete) driveway and is
covered for the majority of the length by a carport? Would we be likely to
encounter problems in bending the cable sufficiently to cope with the angles
involved?
2. If the above is not an approved approach and we do have to cope with the
disruption upstairs - what would be the easiest way of gaining access
through the floor? The chipboard (19mm) lays on 38mmx225mm joists which run
at right angles to the direction in which the cable has to be taken. The
original downstairs ceiling joists run in the direction the cable has to
take.
3. Any other ideas?

Any help gratefully accepted.

"peter" wrote in message
...
My home is a semi detached chalet bungalow originally built in 1956. The
upper storey was created some 25 years ago by adding a back flat roof
conversion to a previous semi- detached bungalow. The main bathroom is
downstairs on the (front) north east corner of the building and the mains
electrical panel is in a kitchen pantry at the south east corner of the
building. The switch panel is a recent Wylex unit with spare slots.
Upstairs bathroom provision consists of a cloakroom with a toilet and wash
handbasin.

We are completely refitting the main bathroom and as part of this plan to
have a 10.5 kw electric shower fitted as our aging central heating boiler
is a backboiler and we wish to keep all options open (including a
combination boiler) when we consider replacement in due course. Given that
the upstairs flooring consists of 8x4 foot chipboard sheets we are daunted
by the disruption which is likely to arise from the exercise of taking a
new power supply from the switch panel to the bathroom. We realise that
the cabling required for a 10.5kw shower is thick and inflexible but would
like to use a high rated shower in order to enjoy good performance.
Looking at the possible options:-

3. Any other ideas?

while I think about the cable routing question, would just highlight one
issue. Intrigued by the passing reference to a combination boiler as if
that rules out future non-electric shower options. Well the combi would be
24kW minimum, probably 28kW, perhaps 32kW. Your electric shower will be
10.5kW, OK IMHO as a backup but not even up to combi standards.

Jim A

"peter" wrote in message
...
My home is a semi detached chalet bungalow originally built in 1956. The
upper storey was created some 25 years ago by adding a back flat roof
conversion to a previous semi- detached bungalow. The main bathroom is
downstairs on the (front) north east corner of the building and the mains
electrical panel is in a kitchen pantry at the south east corner of the
building. The switch panel is a recent Wylex unit with spare slots.
Upstairs bathroom provision consists of a cloakroom with a toilet and wash
handbasin.

We are completely refitting the main bathroom and as part of this plan to
have a 10.5 kw electric shower fitted as our aging central heating boiler
is a backboiler and we wish to keep all options open (including a
combination boiler) when we consider replacement in due course. Given that
the upstairs flooring consists of 8x4 foot chipboard sheets we are daunted
by the disruption which is likely to arise from the exercise of taking a
new power supply from the switch panel to the bathroom. We realise that
the cabling required for a 10.5kw shower is thick and inflexible but would
like to use a high rated shower in order to enjoy good performance.
Looking at the possible options:-

1. Would it be legal / practical to take the wiring along the outside of
the building in conduit - this would appear to be a straightforward run of
some 25 feet. The wall involved is adjacent to the (concrete) driveway and
is covered for the majority of the length by a carport? Would we be likely
to encounter problems in bending the cable sufficiently to cope with the
angles involved?
2. If the above is not an approved approach and we do have to cope with
the disruption upstairs - what would be the easiest way of gaining access
through the floor? The chipboard (19mm) lays on 38mmx225mm joists which
run at right angles to the direction in which the cable has to be taken.
The original downstairs ceiling joists run in the direction the cable has
to

are you saying you can't access the eaves space above the first floor
joists, the space between the ceiling joists or even the (usual) space
between the new floor joists and the orginal ceiling joists? any space
under the ground floor?

Jim A

1. Would it be legal / practical to take the wiring along the outside of
the building in conduit - this would appear to be a straightforward run of
some 25 feet. The wall involved is adjacent to the (concrete) driveway and
is covered for the majority of the length by a carport? Would we be likely
to encounter problems in bending the cable sufficiently to cope with the
angles involved?

This is permitted and practical, but can be ugly if the wall is currently
good looking. A similar alternative is that external runs can be made in
Hi-Tuf, or SWA armoured cable. However, Hi-Tuf is probably not permitted in
your case, as mechanical protection is required under a car port, so
armoured cable or metal conduit would be indicated. If the possible ugliness
is mitigated by the current appearance of the area, then this is probably
your best option with the least work involved.

The chipboard (19mm) lays on 38mmx225mm joists which run at right angles
to the direction in which the cable has to be taken. The original
downstairs ceiling joists run in the direction the cable has to take.

It may be easier to run through the ceiling space and patch the ceiling,
than lift the chipboard.

Sometimes there is space between the edge of the flooring and the wall,
which you can get access to by removing the skirting boards. However,
there's no guarantee and it is not acceptable to run actually behind the
skirting above floor level. It will only work if there is a slot behind the
flooring that the cable can be dropped into. I've used this technique
several times, but been foiled a couple.

If you do decide to go under the floor, one method is to router out a few
inspection panels, which can then be filled with proprietary hatches to
allow subsequent access later and allow flooring (i.e. carpet or lino, but
not tiles) to be relaid. You will normally find that there is space
underneath the joists on a suspended floor, so the direction of joists
doesn't matter. Your only problem is getting the cable past any sleeper
walls. They are normally perforated for air circulation reasons and I have
usually been successful poking a long garden cane through a hole and
retrieving string to pull cable at the next panel. You can go a good 4 or 5
metres between panels, given long enough canes and arms.

A tip to working in such cases is to borrow (if you don't have one) a
camcorder. Drop it down below the floor, turn the shooting light on, angle
the screen up and you can see where you are poking. You can go one better
and duct tape it to an off road RC car and feed signals back to a monitor if
you really want! Don't forget to tie your string to it first, though!

Christian.

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:59:43 +0100 Christian McArdle wrote :
1. Would it be legal / practical to take the wiring along the outside of
the building in conduit - this would appear to be a straightforward run of
some 25 feet. The wall involved is adjacent to the (concrete) driveway and
is covered for the majority of the length by a carport? Would we be likely
to encounter problems in bending the cable sufficiently to cope with the
angles involved?

This is permitted and practical, but can be ugly if the wall is currently
good looking. A similar alternative is that external runs can be made in
Hi-Tuf, or SWA armoured cable. However, Hi-Tuf is probably not permitted in
your case, as mechanical protection is required under a car port, so
armoured cable or metal conduit would be indicated. If the possible ugliness
is mitigated by the current appearance of the area, then this is probably
your best option with the least work involved.

Assuming the OP can - or knows someone who can - terminate it properly is MICC
acceptable in this position: much less conspicuous.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:21:47 +0100 someone who may be Tony Bryer
wrote this:-

Assuming the OP can - or knows someone who can - terminate it properly is MICC
acceptable in this position: much less conspicuous.

Good idea, provided one does not use an orange or red sheath on the
stuff which would make it rather conspicuous. No problem running
this outside.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54