My old gas cooker was a free-standing one with an AA-battery powered
ignition system. The new (built in) oven and hob require a mains
electrical supply for their ignition and the oven light. The
installation instructions for the oven state that it must be connected
via a double-pole switch and protected by a 13A fuse.

What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

I'm not sure whether I'd be better off using two 13A FCUs instead of the
double-socket, but then I don't think I can have two separate FCUs from
the DP-switch as one will be a spur-off-a-spur. I haven't been able to
find a 2-gang FCU, which is why I'm thinking of using a standard
double-socket.

Is this a reasonable way of doing this? Is there a better way?
--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:27:48 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote:

I'm not sure whether I'd be better off using two 13A FCUs instead of the
double-socket, but then I don't think I can have two separate FCUs from
the DP-switch as one will be a spur-off-a-spur. I haven't been able to
find a 2-gang FCU, which is why I'm thinking of using a standard
double-socket.

For the sake of clarity, here's some ASCII art:-

______
---ring----------|45A DP|-------ring------
|______|
|
|
|
___|___
|Sockets|
|_______|

"45A DP" is the double-pole cooker switch. "Sockets" is a two-gang 13A
socket into which the oven and hob would be plugged (tucked away
somewhere discreet, probably inside a unit). The instructions for the
oven state that a "13A socket outlet" is suitable, so I guess my
question really is: is it acceptable/correct to have the (gas) hob
plugged into the same switched spur as the oven?

In article ,
Chris Cowley wrote:
My old gas cooker was a free-standing one with an AA-battery powered
ignition system. The new (built in) oven and hob require a mains
electrical supply for their ignition and the oven light. The
installation instructions for the oven state that it must be connected
via a double-pole switch and protected by a 13A fuse.

What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

No need to use a cooker switch as these are 45 amps. Or indeed to use
FCUs. If it's plugged in that provides the necessary isolation for
servicing, as well as the plug fuse providing protection.

--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:21:48 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Cowley wrote:
My old gas cooker was a free-standing one with an AA-battery powered
ignition system. The new (built in) oven and hob require a mains
electrical supply for their ignition and the oven light. The
installation instructions for the oven state that it must be connected
via a double-pole switch and protected by a 13A fuse.

What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

No need to use a cooker switch as these are 45 amps. Or indeed to use
FCUs. If it's plugged in that provides the necessary isolation for
servicing, as well as the plug fuse providing protection.

That makes perfect sense to me and is what I was originally intending to
do, but the thing that is throwing me off is the fact that the
instructions for the oven state: "It is necessary that you install a
double pole switch between the oven and the electricity supply (mains),
with a minimum gap of 3mm between the switch contacts...".

I personally find this odd given that the only electrical power required
by the oven is a single 25W light bulb, and the igniter (which is
presumably no more than a couple of hundred milliamps). There isn't even
so much as a fan, so a DP switch seems rather unnecessary, but there it
is in black and white! I wasn't sure if this was a typical requirement
or not.

I'm leaning towards having a DP-switch on the kitchen ring, with an FCU
and the rest as per Owain's post, if that is regs-compliant (I wasn't
sure that I'd be allowed two items on one switch) as that would satisfy
the installation guide for the oven. I very much doubt the hob will be
required to be on a DP switch, but it makes sense to me to have both
items on the one switch if it's allowed.


--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:08:05 +0000, Owain
wrote:

Chris Cowley wrote:
For the sake of clarity, here's some ASCII art:-

amended
[snip]
1 x FCU and JB cheaper than DP switch, double socket etc.

Many thanks for that, it makes perfect sense but see my other post about
the instructions for the oven being very particular about specifying a
DP switch. I don't understand why this is at all, but I will go along
with it - as long as going along with it is regs-compliant.
--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:27:48 +0000 someone who may be Chris Cowley
wrote this:-

What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

Fixed equipment should be connected with fixed wiring, not a plug
and socket.

I assume that you have a gas oven and a gas hob. The ignition and
oven light for these are most unlikely to draw more than 1A. Bearing
in mind that I have not seen the kitchen, what I would do is fit a
switched fused connection unit in the ring main, near the socket,
fitted with a 3A fuse. From there I would run a cable to two cord
outlets in a suitable place. These could be mounted on a metal or
plastic box that takes two single items, or mounted separately. The
plastic ones are certainly made by MK and perhaps other suppliers,
most B&Qs will have the metal version.

http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/products...1&rangeid=1003
is the surface mounted plastic version.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:34:05 +0000 someone who may be Chris Cowley
wrote this:-

That makes perfect sense to me and is what I was originally intending to
do, but the thing that is throwing me off is the fact that the
instructions for the oven state: "It is necessary that you install a
double pole switch between the oven and the electricity supply (mains),
with a minimum gap of 3mm between the switch contacts...".

A switched fused connection unit has such a switch built in
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/products...1&rangeid=1030

You then need suitable cable outlets.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

Fixed equipment should be connected with fixed wiring, not a plug
and socket.

If it comes with a fitted 13 amp plug?

How is a gas oven or hob more 'fitted' than a washing machine, etc?

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:44:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
What I intend to do is replace a socket on the ring with a DP "cooker"
switch and have this switching a new 13A double socket into which the
oven and hob will be plugged.

Fixed equipment should be connected with fixed wiring, not a plug
and socket.

If it comes with a fitted 13 amp plug?

How is a gas oven or hob more 'fitted' than a washing machine, etc?

I broadly agree that permanently wired outlets are be preferable, but
just to add to the confusion slightly, although the oven doesn't come
fitted with a 13A plug the instructions do state that a 13A socket
outlet is a valid option (just before it goes on to say about the DP
switch). Obviously that doesn't supercede whatever the IEE regs say on
the matter though (I do have a copy of the 16th Edn, and the OSG, but
they're up in the loft and I'm feeling too lazy to pick through them to
form an opinion at the moment!).
--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:42:41 +0000, Owain
wrote:

You can have what you like on the load side of an FCU.

Gotcha, thanks for your help.
--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:34:20 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

A switched fused connection unit has such a switch built in
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/products...1&rangeid=1030

You then need suitable cable outlets.

That looks like it's exactly what I'm after, cheers. I'll get hold of
one of those and use a junction box as described be Owain, with fixed
cable outlets.
--
Chris Cowley

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:44:03 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

Fixed equipment should be connected with fixed wiring, not a plug
and socket.

If it comes with a fitted 13 amp plug?

Cut it off.

How is a gas oven or hob more 'fitted' than a washing machine, etc?

A built in oven and hob are fixed equipment, because they are
fixed:-) A washing machine is not fixed.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:44:03 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

Fixed equipment should be connected with fixed wiring, not a plug
and socket.

If it comes with a fitted 13 amp plug?

Cut it off.

Well, that makes sense. ;-)

How is a gas oven or hob more 'fitted' than a washing machine, etc?

A built in oven and hob are fixed equipment, because they are
fixed:-) A washing machine is not fixed.

Built in ones are as much as ovens.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Chris Cowley wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:27:48 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote:


I'm not sure whether I'd be better off using two 13A FCUs instead of the
double-socket, but then I don't think I can have two separate FCUs from
the DP-switch as one will be a spur-off-a-spur. I haven't been able to
find a 2-gang FCU, which is why I'm thinking of using a standard
double-socket.

What's wrong with simply using the following arrangement, where
"Sockets" is a 2G, DP double socket, fitted out of the way but
accessible below the worktop?


---ring------------- ---ring------
| |
| |
| |
| |
__|_|__
|Socket |
|_______|

David

"It is necessary that you install a double pole switch between the
oven and the electricity supply (mains), with a minimum gap of 3mm
between the switch contacts...".

All FCUs and most modern switched sockets have double pole switching with
3mm contact gaps. Older socket designs have single pole switching.

Christian.

Built in ones are as much as ovens.

Not quite. Most built in washing machines are just freestanding with the
ability to attach a door. They don't screw to anything.

An oven would require a screwdriver to remove.

Christian.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:23:25 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

"It is necessary that you install a double pole switch between the
oven and the electricity supply (mains), with a minimum gap of 3mm
between the switch contacts...".

All FCUs and most modern switched sockets have double pole switching with
3mm contact gaps. Older socket designs have single pole switching.

Ahah! That explains everything, then. In my mind, a "double pole switch
with 3mm contact gaps" meant a gert big 45A cooker switch. I haven't got
around to buying a switched FCU yet, but it's good to know that a
standard it will fully satisfy the installation requirements as well as
the IEE regs.

It should look a bit more discreet than a 45A electric cooker switch
too!
--
Chris Cowley

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Built in ones are as much as ovens.

Not quite. Most built in washing machines are just freestanding with the
ability to attach a door. They don't screw to anything.

An oven would require a screwdriver to remove.

Mine doesn't. It's simply pushed into the housing.

--
*Born free - taxed to death *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

An oven would require a screwdriver to remove.

Mine doesn't. It's simply pushed into the housing.

Ours used to be like that but it'd slowly creep forwards so it's screwed
in now.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

In article ,
Guy King wrote:
An oven would require a screwdriver to remove.

Mine doesn't. It's simply pushed into the housing.

Ours used to be like that but it'd slowly creep forwards so it's screwed
in now.

Must have a powerful fan, then?

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Ours used to be like that but it'd slowly creep forwards so it's screwed
in now.

Must have a powerful fan, then?

Hovercookers!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.