Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

there is a hall and a dining room adjacent to the lounge and I am
putting ionisation detectors in these two rooms. The bedroom above the
lounge will have an ionisation detector.

Regards,

Stephen.

Stephen H wrote:
Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

ionization works here.

Guaranteed to work on high level smoke, but will false on steam..hence
less good in kitchen bathroom araes.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

there is a hall and a dining room adjacent to the lounge and I am
putting ionisation detectors in these two rooms. The bedroom above the
lounge will have an ionisation detector.

Its normal to alarm exit routes: not rooms themselves

Regards,

Stephen.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:21:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its normal to alarm exit routes: not rooms themselves

Aye unless this is a multi occupancy dwelling rather than just a
normal house with a single family living in it.

Individual bedrooms seems decidedly excessive. Landings, halls,
kitchens, lounge with woodburner, loft with the kit, garage maybe.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Apr 13, 10:18*pm, Stephen H wrote:
I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up *to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

Do not use Kidde.
Do use alarms with either 9V Lithium or permanent long life battery.
Alkaline are a pain when you have a lot of alarms because they do
cause annoying "low battery" signals typically at 4am in the morning
and you have to hunt around to find which.

Why are you putting smoke alarm's in every room in the house?
Multiple storey sprawling town house, difficulty in achieving required
dB(A) measurement next to bed head?

- Hall Up
- Hall Down
- Kitchen - heat alarm
- Garage - heat alarm
- Loft - heat alarm
- Room with wood burner in

I would put the saving into fire blanket, 55B foam extinguisher
(electric ok), 55B CO2 extinguisher (toast :-) on each floor.

On 13/04/2012 22:44, js.b1 wrote:
On Apr 13, 10:18 pm, Stephen wrote:
I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

Do not use Kidde.

Whats wrong with Kidde?

Do use alarms with either 9V Lithium or permanent long life battery.
I am doing that anyway.

Alkaline are a pain when you have a lot of alarms because they do
cause annoying "low battery" signals typically at 4am in the morning
and you have to hunt around to find which.

Amen brother.....


Why are you putting smoke alarm's in every room in the house?

I am deaf..... thats why and I can get a special alarm clock that
detects the sound of smoke detectors but for it to work, there has to be
a smoke detector physically in the same room as the special alarm clock.

Multiple storey sprawling town house, difficulty in achieving required
dB(A) measurement next to bed head?

- Hall Up
- Hall Down
- Kitchen - heat alarm
- Garage - heat alarm
- Loft - heat alarm
- Room with wood burner in

So an ionisation detector is OK in the same room as wood burner?


I would put the saving into fire blanket, 55B foam extinguisher
(electric ok), 55B CO2 extinguisher (toast :-) on each floor.

js.b1 wrote:

On Apr 13, 10:18 pm, Stephen H wrote:
I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

Do not use Kidde.

Just out of interest - why?

For interlinked that mostly leaves Aico or a full on commercial system - are
there any other companies that make interlinked alarms?

Do use alarms with either 9V Lithium or permanent long life battery.
Alkaline are a pain when you have a lot of alarms because they do
cause annoying "low battery" signals typically at 4am in the morning
and you have to hunt around to find which.

Why are you putting smoke alarm's in every room in the house?
Multiple storey sprawling town house, difficulty in achieving required
dB(A) measurement next to bed head?

- Hall Up
- Hall Down
- Kitchen - heat alarm
- Garage - heat alarm
- Loft - heat alarm
- Room with wood burner in

I would put the saving into fire blanket, 55B foam extinguisher
(electric ok), 55B CO2 extinguisher (toast :-) on each floor.

It's an interesting problem that I am also tackling.

Would it not be wise to have smoke detectors in bedrooms that are full of
running mains powered electronics (computers, tvs etc) and all the plugs and
trailing cables entailed?

I'm thinking that should a small fire break out, the difference in time
between a room alarm tripping and anough smoke getting into the hall to trip
that one would be significant?

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote:

For interlinked that mostly leaves Aico or a full on commercial system -
are there any other companies that make interlinked alarms?

I meant to say Aico or BRK
--
Tim Watts

On Apr 14, 5:20*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
js.b1 wrote:
Do not use Kidde.

Just out of interest - why?

Kidde CO detectors.
- My experience of the LCD units was repeated failure (888 displayed &
continuous alarm).
- Argos reviewers also found similar failure mode.
- Amazon reviewers I think found the same.

Kidde Smoke detectors.
- Many versions bought over the years, false alarms or dead when
pressed.
- Replaced by AICO, no problems at all.

On balance AICO have proven themselves reliable.

Hit send too quick.
The Kidde replacement did exactly the same, this is after only a few
months.

Stephen H wrote:

Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

CO detector (ideally also interlinked) - seem to remember noticing that any
solid fuel stoves fitted after some date in 2010 should be backed up with CO
detection as a new thing in the building regs. Even if your stove predates
that date, it is a good idea.

Then add whichever of optical or ionisation would suit the room use best.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

there is a hall and a dining room adjacent to the lounge and I am
putting ionisation detectors in these two rooms. The bedroom above the
lounge will have an ionisation detector.

Regards,

Stephen.
--
Tim Watts

On Apr 13, 10:18*pm, Stephen H wrote:
Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up *to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

there is a hall and a dining room adjacent to the lounge and I am
putting ionisation detectors in these two rooms. The bedroom above the
lounge will have an ionisation detector.

Regards,

Stephen.


What you want is a carbon monoxide detector.
Ideally several.
You want one for any fuel burning appliance inside the house.
(Gas,coal fire/stove etc.)

Personally, I let my stove go out before I go to bed.

On 14/04/2012 07:28, harry wrote:
On Apr 13, 10:18 pm, Stephen wrote:

Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

What you want is a carbon monoxide detector.
Ideally several.
You want one for any fuel burning appliance inside the house.
(Gas,coal fire/stove etc.)

There should certainly be one in the same room as the wood burning stove
and in the recommended location.

Personally, I let my stove go out before I go to bed.

Do you never sleep? Or is this more pseudo green nonsense?

My wood burning stove will usually relight from the embers in the
middle of the afternoon provided that I don't disturb the ashes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Apr 14, 9:57*am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 14/04/2012 07:28, harry wrote:

On Apr 13, 10:18 pm, Stephen *wrote:
Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

What you want is a carbon monoxide detector.
Ideally several.
You want one for any fuel burning appliance inside the house.
(Gas,coal fire/stove etc.)

There should certainly be one in the same room as the wood burning stove
and in the recommended location.



Personally, I let my stove go out before I go to bed.

Do you never sleep? Or is this more pseudo green nonsense?

My wood burning stove will usually relight from the embers in the
middle of the afternoon provided that I don't disturb the ashes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

My stove is very small. I light it only if it's very cold. I only fire
it for an hour from around fivish & then let it go out.

On 14/04/2012 16:45, harry wrote:
On Apr 14, 9:57 am, Martin
wrote:
On 14/04/2012 07:28, harry wrote:

Personally, I let my stove go out before I go to bed.

Do you never sleep? Or is this more pseudo green nonsense?

My wood burning stove will usually relight from the embers in the
middle of the afternoon provided that I don't disturb the ashes.

My stove is very small. I light it only if it's very cold. I only fire
it for an hour from around fivish& then let it go out.

So it is just more of your pointless greenwash renewable tokenism then.

My stove drives the entire CH system and saves me around 30% of the oil
that I used to use during the winter. Additional savings of about 10%
came from thicker loft insulation. No mains gas in our village although
we are in the hazard zone for a deeply buried high pressure gas pipline!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Apr 13, 10:18*pm, Stephen H wrote:
Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up *to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

there is a hall and a dining room adjacent to the lounge and I am
putting ionisation detectors in these two rooms. The bedroom above the
lounge will have an ionisation detector.

Regards,

Stephen.

Ionisation are cheap but overly sensitive, and are best kept away from
kitchens, garages, boiler rooms. If you're putting alarms everywhere,
I'd include at least 1 or 2 opticals, since the 2 types respond well
and poorly to different fire types.

Heat and rate of rise are the usual thing for boiler rooms, the latter
being an improvement on the former. But both are far less effective at
fire detection than the ionisation/optical.


NT

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:18:04 +0100, Stephen H
wrote:

Hi I have a lounge that has a wood burning stove.

I am fitting 12 interlinked mains detectors all with battery backup.

I have a choice of three for each of the 12 locations in the house.

They are optical, ionisation and heat.

The 12 locations are kitchen, garage, loft, 5 bedrooms, lounge, dining,
hall and landing.

Contrary to some opinions more does not always equal better when it
comes to fire alarms. There is always a compromise between nuisance
alarms and real fire alarms. Nuisance alarms are not false alarms but
simply ones caused by normal activities which produce combustion
products (cooking is the most obvious) . If when you cook the alarm
tends to go off then people eventually ignore it or disable it.

The ideal is to have adequate alarms to detect the major fire risks
quickly but not so many that nuisance alarms occur. In a two storey
house the first priority should be an ionisation alarm on the ceiling
at the top of the stairs. This is the alarm which will normally go
off first for any fire starting downstairs.

Living and dining room alarms are normally not necessary unless you
have open fires, wood burning stoves or someone who smokes. Bedroom
alarms similarly are not usually helpful unless someone smokes or (as
in your case) is deaf or hard of hearing in which case a combined
sound and flash light type can be fitted to act simply as an alarm
repeater (or see later for a better alternative).

I'm using heat detectors in the kitchen and garage. i plan to use
ionisation elsewhere for the rest of the house. The loft will be an
ionization type as there will be servers, multiswitches and network
switches in there as well as the power and lighting. Ionisation as I
understand it is best for electrical fires.

Ionisation detects gaseous and usually invisible products of
combustion. It is quite possible to have something like a smoothing
capacitor fail in a computer and fill a room with smoke but for there
to be no triggering of an ionisation detector. This isn't a problem,
lots of smoke from a faulty component doesn't mean there is a
particular risk of fire. Once something actually starts burning the
ionisation detector will trigger. An optical detector in the same
situation will tend to trigger earlier but is no "safer".

However, lofts are dusty places with insects and many particulate and
ionisation alarms don't like that sort of atmosphere so you would be
better fitting a rate of rise detector above the bits of electronics.
Remember the aim of a fire alarm is to allow everyone to get out - not
to stop the building burning down.

1. Now which is the best choice of detector for a lounge that is 3m by
4m that has a wood burning stove, giving the best compromise between
false alarms and maximising chances of being alerted to a real unwanted
fire.

A rate of rise detector on the ceiling above the fire. Ionisation in
the hall outside.

However, a lot depends upon how you use the fire and how old the house
is. An old building with leaky windows and ill fitting doors will
behave quite differently to a modern one with double glazed sealed
windows and well fitting doors.

Each time you open the stove you are releasing combustion products
into the room. In a well sealed room with few air changes these may
trigger either an optical or ionisation detector.

2. are there any particular rooms that should have an optical detector
instead of an ionisation type? if so, why?

Fitting detectors in each room (unless you have smokers) isn't usually
beneficial. The vast majority of dangerous fires occur at night from
discarded cigarette ends or in the kitchen (chip pans or cloths on
stoves).

I can't use more than 12 alarms interlinked (dicon and BRK range) I
could use Kidde instead as that will go up to 24 interlinks but they
are expensive in comparison to Dicon or BRK

The number of detectors you are proposing, unless the building is of
unusual construction, is rather on the high side. You may find the
number of nuisance trips in operation to be excessive.

As part of the problem is alerting someone with no hearing a better
solution might be to either use a dedicated system such as the one
made by Bellman
http://www.actiondeafnesstech.org.uk...ystem-12-c.asp

or instead of a plethora of interlinked alarms wire individual sensors
to a fire alarm panel such as :-

http://www.protectingpeople.co.uk/do...all_Manual.pdf
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/mo...cpc/509365.xml

You can use such a panel with standard detector heads such as
http://www.nobydirect.co.uk/shop/cat...aram=cid%3D%26
http://cpc.farnell.com/menvier-secur...tor/dp/SR04245

As the panel has a number of alarm output options it is relatively
easy to connect it to things like strobe lights in the bedroom

http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/tk3...obe/dp/SR00194
or to vibrating pads/bed shakers etc.

Carbon Monoxide has been mentioned. Unlike fire which poses an
immediate risk the threat from CO tends to be more insidious, it is
more important to be able to measure the level and be alerted if it
starts going up over time (days) rather than trigger at a single set
point. For that reason I would use something like

http://cpc.farnell.com/kidde/kn-copd...lay/dp/SR06919
rather than something connected to the central system.