On Mar 19, 6:14*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
On 19/03/2012 16:36, Man at B&Q wrote:









On Mar 18, 12:20 pm, The Medway
wrote:
Installed a couple of Argos items last week. When I say installed, I
mean hung on the wall.

First was a large mirror. Two 'upside down keyhole' brackets with a
recess behind them. *Simple. *Measure the distance between them, divide
by 2, mark centre line on wall, draw horizontal line, drill 2 accurate
holes.

This method of fixing is generally a PITA because you have to get the
holes 100% spot on - there is no adjustment or 'play'.

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. *Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! *FFS
why not just make it 92 cm? *Or 90cm?

How do you think that would help?

Because whole numbers are easier to read off a tape.

All my tapes have clear graduations every mm. You should be aiming for
at least mm accuracy, i.e., 91.5/2 use 45.7 or 45.8mm. 92/2 would be
46.0mm, not 46mm.

MBQ

stuart noble wrote

er.. why not hold up the object to be fixed and use a pencil/scribe to mark the hole positions?

They often arent visible when the object is held where its going to be permanently.

Oh.

I suppose a sheet of newsprint could be used as a template but at
some additional effort. Bit of Blue tack to take an imprint of the holes?

Template is easy enough (and why can't Ikea print one on the
packaging?) but no one can can guarantee the drill bit isn't going to
wander a mm or so on at least one of the holes. How much extra can
adjustable mirror clips cost?

A hell of a lot more than a keyhole hold in the back.

Nothing to stop anyone flogging adjustable clips that use the keyhole holes.

On 19/03/2012 08:30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 18/03/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
The Medway wrote:
Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! FFS
why not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?

Because it's actually an imperial dimension? 36 inches?

We went metric in 1973 :-)


Far from it, as a look at any road sign with distance on it will show.
All we did in 1973 was to promise the EU that we would adopt metric
within five years, which we eventually did for selling goods some 27
years later, after a corruption scandal in the EU prevented legislation
that would have allowed us to continue to use imperial from getting
through the EU parliament in time. Even now, it is only a legal
requirement that pricing units are expressed in metric. A shed can
still, quite legally, be sold as 6' x 8' without any need to give metric
equivalents.

Colin Bignell

On 19/03/2012 18:12, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 19/03/2012 08:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:29:13 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm.

But you highlight the point nicely, much less chance of user error if
the fixing centres were directly divisible by 2.

Keep up, 36 is divisible by 2. B-)

But I've spent the time & trouble to 'go metric'.

More to the point, anyone under 35 is unlikely to know what 36" is.


That is a fault of the education system. Pupils should be prepared for
the real world, not just the one that exists in academia. Imperial
measurements are still widely used in the UK, while the USA is still a
major manufacturer and market and still uses pre-imperial British
measurements.

Of course, if the mirror was made in China, the centres may have been
2.75 chi = 91.6667 cm.

Colin Bignell

stuart noble wrote
Tim Watts wrote
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote
Rod wrote

I notice it most with plug boards. They are hardly ever visible
with those, only visible from the back, basically because then
they dont show when installed.

Sometimes with units like that, especially if the holes aren't on
the same 'level' (so the line on the wall you might draw needs to
be at a funny angle) or there's more than two holes and they're in
weird places, I tape a peice of paper onto the back of the unit,
then shade it with a pencil in the way that you could take a
'rubbing' of a coin.

Then I unpeel the piece of paper, make tiny holes through it in the
centre of the keyslots (or whatever) then tape the paper to the
wall (You need to be careful to have the shading away from you, not
facing you!) I then mark through the tiny holes.

2 blobs of bluetak on the wall around the right points, off up,
level then press into position - now remove and you can see where
you are drilling.

I have not tried this but it might just work...

If you can persuade the blue tak to stick to the wall and not the unit :-)

It'd probably work to put some talcum powder or even just flour on
the outside of the bluetack once its on the wall, to stop it sticking to
what you are pressing against it to mark the keyhole locations.

Again, I havent tried it, but I'd be surprised if that didnt work.

And is quite a bit quicker and easier than the paper template that should work too.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
The Medway Handyman wrote

Keep up, 36 is divisible by 2. B-)

But I've spent the time & trouble to 'go metric'.

More to the point, anyone under 35 is unlikely to know what 36" is.

Really?

Likely. And a yard in spades.

Most seem to talk about feet when describing a person's height.

Yeah, that one is remarkably resistant to change, likely because most dont use it very much at all.

And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Keep up, 36 is divisible by 2. B-)

But I've spent the time & trouble to 'go metric'.

More to the point, anyone under 35 is unlikely to know what 36" is.

Really? Most seem to talk about feet when describing a person's height.
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?


I noticed the nation curriculum has a small section on inches...
--
Tim Watts

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote:

And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

I dont plan to drive it there.

Much cheaper to buy one or hire one to use there instead.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

Scott

On 18/03/2012 16:19 Ian Jackson wrote:

I helped my son put up his large-ish bathroom mirror. The kit had a
thoughtfully-included template for marking the positions of the fixing
holes. Unfortunately, the dimensions were about 3/8" wrong - not quite
close enough to use the holes we'd so carefully drilled in the wall, and
not quite far enough away to drill a new ones.

A few years back I fitted a Bathrooms.com washbasin. It wasn't until I
came to hang the brackets I'd fixed using the supplied template that I
found that said template had been drawn with the holes for them out of
position by 180º.

The guy at the shop couldn't understand what the problem was...

--
F

On 18/03/2012 12:20, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Installed a couple of Argos items last week. When I say installed, I
mean hung on the wall.

First was a large mirror. Two 'upside down keyhole' brackets with a
recess behind them. Simple. Measure the distance between them, divide by
2, mark centre line on wall, draw horizontal line, drill 2 accurate holes.

This method of fixing is generally a PITA because you have to get the
holes 100% spot on - there is no adjustment or 'play'.

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! FFS why
not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?

Doesn't your tape rule also have feet and inches?

Next practical joke by Argos - No:8 gauge/4mm screw (surely the most
common screw size used?) won't fit the 'kin hole! I've been caught like
this before so I tried it first. Had to use No:6 screws - great for a
heavy mirror.


Think of it this way. They've got your best interests at heart. If it
was *too* easy, no-one would need to employ you to do it for them!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 19/03/2012 18:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
The Medway wrote:
Keep up, 36 is divisible by 2. B-)

But I've spent the time& trouble to 'go metric'.

More to the point, anyone under 35 is unlikely to know what 36" is.

Really? Most seem to talk about feet when describing a person's height.
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

Flaming BBC newsreaders / correspondents.

David

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote:

And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

I dont plan to drive it there.

Much cheaper to buy one or hire one to use there instead.

Then perhaps you'd explain the relevance of your post on this a UK based
group?

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Scott M wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

--
*White with a hint of M42*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Really? Most seem to talk about feet when describing a person's height.
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

Flaming BBC newsreaders / correspondents.

David

Ooops, sorry.

What I meant was the correspondent say something like " 100 metres
behind me" or "20 metres over road".

David

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mar 19, 8:46*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
The Medway *wrote
Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. *Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! FFS why not just make it 92 cm? *Or 90cm?
Because it's actually an imperial dimension? 36 inches?
We went metric in 1973 :-)

Those making whatever it was clearly didnt.

Imperial. Made for the American market. Like a lot of tools advertised
in strange metric sizes.

The answer to the problem was to make a paper or cardboard template.
That way the dimensions used are immaterial.

Paul Mc Cann

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

Oh indeed. Mine will change the temperature readout from celsius to
fahrenheit as well. Perhaps that's beyond Mr Speed.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
fred wrote:
Those making whatever it was clearly didnt.

Imperial. Made for the American market. Like a lot of tools advertised
in strange metric sizes.

The answer to the problem was to make a paper or cardboard template.
That way the dimensions used are immaterial.

You don't possess a tape measure which has imperial measurements?

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:20:36 PM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Installed a couple of Argos items last week. When I say installed, I
mean hung on the wall.

First was a large mirror. Two 'upside down keyhole' brackets with a
recess behind them. Simple. Measure the distance between them, divide
by 2, mark centre line on wall, draw horizontal line, drill 2 accurate
holes.

This method of fixing is generally a PITA because you have to get the
holes 100% spot on - there is no adjustment or 'play'.

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! FFS
why not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?


91.4mm = 36 inches.

Robert

On 20/03/2012 10:28 Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:

On 18/03/2012 16:19 Ian Jackson wrote:

I helped my son put up his large-ish bathroom mirror. The kit had a
thoughtfully-included template for marking the positions of the fixing
holes. Unfortunately, the dimensions were about 3/8" wrong - not quite
close enough to use the holes we'd so carefully drilled in the wall,
and
not quite far enough away to drill a new ones.

A few years back I fitted a Bathrooms.com washbasin. It wasn't until I
came to hang the brackets I'd fixed using the supplied template that I
found that said template had been drawn with the holes for them out of
position by 180º.

The guy at the shop couldn't understand what the problem was...

Turn the template over.

The way the holes were spaced, it was impossible to get the template
into a position that would get them into the correct position.

--
F

RobertL wrote:
On Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:20:36 PM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Installed a couple of Argos items last week. When I say installed, I
mean hung on the wall.

First was a large mirror. Two 'upside down keyhole' brackets with a
recess behind them. Simple. Measure the distance between them, divide
by 2, mark centre line on wall, draw horizontal line, drill 2 accurate
holes.

This method of fixing is generally a PITA because you have to get the
holes 100% spot on - there is no adjustment or 'play'.

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! FFS
why not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?


91.4mm = 36 inches.

914mm = 91.4 cm = 36 inches = 1 yard = half a fathom = 1.975850714 Greek
Cubits.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message , F
writes
On 20/03/2012 10:28 Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:

On 18/03/2012 16:19 Ian Jackson wrote:

I helped my son put up his large-ish bathroom mirror. The kit had a
thoughtfully-included template for marking the positions of the fixing
holes. Unfortunately, the dimensions were about 3/8" wrong - not quite
close enough to use the holes we'd so carefully drilled in the wall,
and
not quite far enough away to drill a new ones.

A few years back I fitted a Bathrooms.com washbasin. It wasn't until I
came to hang the brackets I'd fixed using the supplied template that I
found that said template had been drawn with the holes for them out of
position by 180º.

The guy at the shop couldn't understand what the problem was...

Turn the template over.

The way the holes were spaced, it was impossible to get the template
into a position that would get them into the correct position.

Uh? If you couldn't get the template into a position that would get the
holes into the correct position, presumably the washbasin wouldn't fit
either?
--
Ian

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Dave Liquorice wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

Oh indeed. Mine will change the temperature readout from
celsius to fahrenheit as well. Perhaps that's beyond Mr Speed.

Mine doesnt allow any change at all.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

That turns the service light off on my van.

--
Adam

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2012-03-19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And does anyone measure road distance in Km?

I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.

Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

Speedo is in Oz.

Sadly, not far enough away.

Indeed. Perhaps they could print the Gmail upside down to give due warning.

--
*The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/03/2012 15:59 Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , F
writes
On 20/03/2012 10:28 Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:

On 18/03/2012 16:19 Ian Jackson wrote:

I helped my son put up his large-ish bathroom mirror. The kit had a
thoughtfully-included template for marking the positions of the
fixing
holes. Unfortunately, the dimensions were about 3/8" wrong - not
quite
close enough to use the holes we'd so carefully drilled in the wall,
and
not quite far enough away to drill a new ones.

A few years back I fitted a Bathrooms.com washbasin. It wasn't until I
came to hang the brackets I'd fixed using the supplied template that I
found that said template had been drawn with the holes for them out of
position by 180º.

The guy at the shop couldn't understand what the problem was...

Turn the template over.

The way the holes were spaced, it was impossible to get the template
into a position that would get them into the correct position.

Uh? If you couldn't get the template into a position that would get the
holes into the correct position, presumably the washbasin wouldn't fit
either?

They had to supply the correct template. The way the brackets fitted
wasn't symmetrical...

--
F

On 20/03/12 19:41, ARWadsworth wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

That turns the service light off on my van.

That's quite handy then. So when the light comes on, you can just give
Dave a ring and he can save you the cost of a service )

Cheers,

Colin.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:13:47 +0000, Colin Stamp wrote:

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to
km.

That turns the service light off on my van.

That's quite handy then. So when the light comes on, you can just give
Dave a ring and he can save you the cost of a service )

Ah but you don't know how much I'll charge for the call out...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 20/03/12 19:41, ARWadsworth wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches to km.
The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor scale.

That turns the service light off on my van.

That's quite handy then. So when the light comes on, you can just give
Dave a ring and he can save you the cost of a service )

On my last two Vauxhalls you reset the service indicator by holding the in
trip reset (the one in the instrument cluster) and turning on the ignition,
it resets after a few seconds. Quite useful if you do your own service.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

And does anyone measure road distance in Km?
I do. Dont have any real choice, the car does it that way.
Then it's likely fitted with an illegal speedometer for the UK.

IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

I imagine the easiest way of dealing with an import is to put an MPH
scaled dial under the needle. Voila, MPH speed & KM odo.

Scott

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:13:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10, so when working
with these it's easier to use imperial than convert.

With the exception of DIP packages and a few connector series, most
electronic components are now metric. 2.54mm = 0.1" but 2.5mm != 0.1"

--

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:12:18 +0000, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

On 19/03/2012 08:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:29:13 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm.

But you highlight the point nicely, much less chance of user error if
the fixing centres were directly divisible by 2.

Keep up, 36 is divisible by 2. B-)

But I've spent the time & trouble to 'go metric'.

More to the point, anyone under 35 is unlikely to know what 36" is.

I'd hazard a guess that most of the UK, male and female know what 36"
is, along with a few other numbers in the mid to high 30's.


--

dennis@home wrote:
"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 20/03/12 19:41, ARWadsworth wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
IIRC, tho the speedo has to read MPH, the odo can be KM.

But where would you find such a device?

Press and hold the zero button on my cars odo and it switches
to km. The speedo is dual scale, mph major scale, kmph minor
scale.

That turns the service light off on my van.

That's quite handy then. So when the light comes on, you can just
give Dave a ring and he can save you the cost of a service )

On my last two Vauxhalls you reset the service indicator by holding
the in trip reset (the one in the instrument cluster) and turning on
the ignition, it resets after a few seconds. Quite useful if you do
your own service.

Do my own service:-)? I packed that in when my brother opened up his own
garage.

Although he always finds me an electrical job to do when he is working on my
van:-(

--
Adam

On Mar 19, 12:13*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 18/03/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
* * The Medway *wrote:
Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. *Divide by 2 = 47.75cm! *FFS
why not just make it 92 cm? *Or 90cm?

Because it's actually an imperial dimension? 36 inches?

We went metric in 1973 :-)

'We' may have done, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Where this
may have been made.

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10,

It might have been in the dark ages.

MBQ

In article
, Man at
B&Q wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:13 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , The Medway Handyman
wrote:

On 18/03/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , The Medway
wrote:
Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm!
FFS why not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?

Because it's actually an imperial dimension? 36 inches?

We went metric in 1973 :-)

'We' may have done, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Where
this may have been made.

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10,

It might have been in the dark ages.

Standard DIL package 0.1 inch hole centres (or centers)

MBQ

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article
,
Man at B&Q wrote:
'We' may have done, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Where
this may have been made.

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10,

It might have been in the dark ages.

Well, Veroboard still uses a 0.1" hole pitch, so for DIY purposes current?

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article
, Man at
B&Q wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:13 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , The Medway Handyman
wrote:

On 18/03/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , The Medway
wrote:
Distance between fixing centres? 91.5cm. Divide by 2 = 47.75cm!
FFS why not just make it 92 cm? Or 90cm?

Because it's actually an imperial dimension? 36 inches?

We went metric in 1973 :-)

'We' may have done, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Where
this may have been made.

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10,

It might have been in the dark ages.

Standard DIL package 0.1 inch hole centres (or centers)

Indeed. So when drawing out a PCB (hobby stuff) it's so much easier if you
use an imperial grid.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Man at B&Q wrote:
'We' may have done, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Where
this may have been made.

FWIW, electronic stuff is based on inches to the base 10,

It might have been in the dark ages.

Well, Veroboard still uses a 0.1" hole pitch, so for DIY purposes current?


ICs still have imperial pitched leadouts - up to the sort of massive CPU
stuff. So do most plug in discrete (as opposed to surface mount)
components.

It generally makes sense to lay PCBs out on an imperial grid, even today.

SMD pcbs I can't say - I never laid one out or designed one.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.