I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

Rob

In article
,
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

Just a guess, but if it's operated by the arm it might be a standard
microswitch.

However, you could always bypass it and fit any old switch elsewhere.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.


You can brake a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.

LOTS of good decks probably around still.

I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!


Rob

On Dec 13, 11:35*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *robgraham wrote:

I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. *I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.
It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. *It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.
It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.
So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

Just a guess, but if it's operated by the arm it might be a standard
microswitch.

However, you could always bypass it and fit any old switch elsewhere.

It probably is just a microswitch. Replace it if standard pattern, if
not then open it, file the contacts clean and reassemble.

Duals were largely good to very good, but if its a plastic plinth one,
some of those were pretty awful. The plastics can be much improved
with generous amounts of reinforcement and damping on the underside of
the plinth.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/cs-505.shtml
(unchecked)


NT

On Dec 14, 12:10*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. *I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. *It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

You can brake *a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.

LOTS of good decks probably around still.

I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!







Rob

I should accuse you, TNP, of being a pedant, but I would have made the
same sort of comment. Errors like that annoy me too, and even more so
when you make them youself.

I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is. The wealthy ones will wonder what part of
their yacht that is!

Rob

robgraham :
I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is.

I had a B&O Beogram which was certainly distinctive and performed well.

http://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=264

--
Mike Barnes

robgraham wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:10 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.
It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.
It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.
So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.
You can brake a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.

LOTS of good decks probably around still.

I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!







Rob

I should accuse you, TNP, of being a pedant, but I would have made the
same sort of comment. Errors like that annoy me too, and even more so
when you make them youself.

I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is. The wealthy ones will wonder what part of
their yacht that is!

Rob
well LINN Garrard 301 and better, 401. Thorens. Thorens was THE one to
have unless you were going ape **** on gold plated speaker cables etc.

On Dec 15, 9:17*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:10 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. *I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.
It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. *It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.
It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.
So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.
You can brake *a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.

LOTS of good decks probably around still.

I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!

Rob

I should accuse you, TNP, of being a pedant, but I would have made the
same sort of comment. Errors like that annoy me too, and even more so
when you make them youself.

I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is. *The wealthy ones will wonder what part of
their yacht that is!

Rob

well LINN Garrard 301 and better, 401. Thorens. Thorens was THE one to
have unless you were going ape **** on gold plated speaker cables etc.

I wouldnt put thorens that high up the heap. Pause controls are very
useful for djing, but for home use there are plenty of better decks
about.


NT

NT wrote:
On Dec 15, 9:17 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:10 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.
It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.
It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.
So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.
You can brake a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.
LOTS of good decks probably around still.
I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!
Rob
I should accuse you, TNP, of being a pedant, but I would have made the
same sort of comment. Errors like that annoy me too, and even more so
when you make them youself.
I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is. The wealthy ones will wonder what part of
their yacht that is!
Rob
well LINN Garrard 301 and better, 401. Thorens. Thorens was THE one to
have unless you were going ape **** on gold plated speaker cables etc.

I wouldnt put thorens that high up the heap. Pause controls are very
useful for djing, but for home use there are plenty of better decks
about.

There are NOW but back then.. well...not really. I had the 301 with the
moving COIL cartridge!!!

Bugger to put a new needle in so I switched to a shure 75 and a third
party arm.

Then I got given a Revox parallel.

Then I got a CD player :-)





NT

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:44:55 -0800 (PST), robgraham
wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:10*am, The Natural Philosopher
I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from
the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought.
I have a Dunlop Systemdek with a Mission 770 arm. Haven't used it for
ages though.

--
Reentrant

--
Reentrant

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 12:10 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

You can brake a formula one car, but you cant brake a bank..unstoppable
over the cliff edge jobs mate.

LOTS of good decks probably around still.

I rather liked my old decca 301.. ie got a REvox parallel somewhere..but
I ain't selling that!







Rob

Join your local Freecycle group, that's where my old Garrard deck went.

Mike

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:16:14 +0000, Reentrant wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:44:55 -0800 (PST), robgraham
wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:10Â*am, The Natural Philosopher I
was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from
the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective isn't
as high as I thought.
I have a Dunlop Systemdek with a Mission 770 arm. Haven't used it for
ages though.

Had a Garrard 301 with SME arm for a while. Still have a Thorens TD160
somewhere.

(I used to work in an electronics/hi-fi shop - Technical Trading, used to
advertise valves on page 3 of Practical Wireless)

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Huge wrote:
I have a Thorens TD160c, which I still use.

I always wondered who ripped off who between Thorens and Linn, since the
Sondek is apparently identical to the TD160.

I've got a TD 150. This Thorens design pre-dates Linn by some time. I can
only assume either it wasn't patented or Linn found a loophole.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NT wrote:
[snip]

I wouldnt put thorens that high up the heap. Pause controls are very
useful for djing, but for home use there are plenty of better decks
about.

Cobblers. If the Thorens was so bad, why did Linn copy it?

On Dec 13, 11:04*pm, robgraham wrote:
I'm getting grief from my missus because the record deck doesn't
switch on. *I know all about the problem but very much doubt I can get
a replacement part now.

It's a Dual 505, bought very many years ago as the acceptable price
'hi-fi' player - I think I was working with Plessey then and was able
to get it at a discount which helped. *It doesn't get used all that
often but we have a reasonable collection of LP's and it's nice to
play them every so often.

It's the motor ON switch that has gone stroppy in that the playing arm
needs lots of wiggles to get the motor to come on.

So there are two options - anyone know how to sort this?
Alternatively, given that there are 505's on Ebay, can someone remind
me what replacement 2nd hand alternatives might become available that
won't brake the bank.

Rob

Despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the motor switch on
my Garrard SP25 mkII, I decided to bypass it so the motor was running
continuously with a mains power switch on. I cut the steel motor
board to take a mains rocker switch. I disconnetcted the mechanically
triggered arm return and stop because it interfered with the correct
functioning of a high compliance stylus. I was considering adding an
arm controlled switch but I believe it is an unecessary complication.
This setup is particularly suited to singles playing.

Mike Barnes :
robgraham :
I was hoping for a few more reminders of decks of distinction from the
70's etc., but it looks as if the collected age of the collective
isn't as high as I thought, and they are all youngsters who don't know
what a record deck is.

I had a B&O Beogram which was certainly distinctive and performed well.

http://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=264

I replaced the Beogram with a Dual 701 (well pleased with that, too).

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/701.shtml

Then a Linn. Then a Philips CD player, followed by a Meridian. Now a
Buffalo NAS drive.

--
Mike Barnes

On Dec 16, 12:51*am, Steve Firth wrote:
NT wrote:

[snip]



I wouldnt put thorens that high up the heap. Pause controls are very
useful for djing, but for home use there are plenty of better decks
about.

Cobblers. If the Thorens was so bad, why did Linn copy it?

The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.


NT

On Dec 16, 5:51*pm, NT wrote:
On Dec 16, 12:51*am, Steve Firth wrote:

NT wrote:

[snip]

I wouldnt put thorens that high up the heap. Pause controls are very
useful for djing, but for home use there are plenty of better decks
about.

Cobblers. If the Thorens was so bad, why did Linn copy it?

The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.

NT

Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle. Of course with a proper mono stylusand cart, one
could get the tracking pressure required with a big tip and still have
a relatively low compliance. Some nutter thought it was good to make
singles in stereo and no more mono LP's though and totally fooked it
all up.

In article
,
NT wrote:
The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.
Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Dec 16, 7:57*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *NT wrote: The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.

Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

Yes, thats how those thorens worked. But the secondary platter of the
thorens isnt as good an idea as it sounds, as dropping the platter to
start the record causes a great big thunk, and someone's going to get
the fade up point wrong sooner or later. Hence it was common practice
to not use them, and just hold the record still with a finger to pause
it.


NT

On Dec 16, 7:57*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *NT wrote: The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.

Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much

Not required with a flywheel on the motor spindle, but required a
starting circuit to get the motor up to speed before the programme
start.

faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive

A foam mat directly onto a cast zinc platter gives closest audio
reproduction so that you can easily distiguish instruments. A stereo
cartridge is particularly sensitive about the record support

NT wrote:
On Dec 16, 7:57 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
NT wrote: The thorens I had used an idler wheel, which on a non direct drive
deck is a necessity with pause control. You're never going to get the
same sort of specs from an idler wheel deck that you can from belt
drive. It was a worthwhile compromise for a radio station, but not for
home use. Very solidly built, but not the performance of its high end
rivals.
Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

Yes, thats how those thorens worked. But the secondary platter of the
thorens isnt as good an idea as it sounds, as dropping the platter to
start the record causes a great big thunk, and someone's going to get
the fade up point wrong sooner or later. Hence it was common practice
to not use them, and just hold the record still with a finger to pause
it.


That's how I got my quartz controlled direct drive parallel tracking
turntable. Revox sold a bunch to the SABC and they rejected them as they
were completely effing useless for DJ work.

I did a job via the company I worked for to get Revox out of a
hole..essentially they were trying to record subsonic VLF timestamps in
an audio tape, and needed an ultra steep minimal phase shift low pass
filter to pull them off, which with the help ofa text book I had, was
not that hard..

...and they gifted a couple to my boss who gave me one as a 'bonus'




NT

In article
,
NT wrote:
Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually
achieved by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To
allow a much faster start, since there was little inertia, while
retaining a heavy turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct
drive.

Yes, thats how those thorens worked. But the secondary platter of the
thorens isnt as good an idea as it sounds, as dropping the platter to
start the record causes a great big thunk, and someone's going to get
the fade up point wrong sooner or later. Hence it was common practice
to not use them, and just hold the record still with a finger to pause
it.

But the idea pre-dated stereo - and there's no vertical output from a mono
cartridge. Slip mats get round the problem.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle.

But lots of rumble. Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

But presumably after the era of releasing your grip on the corner
of a square of green baize?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle.

But lots of rumble. Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

Hmm.. I have a BD2 somewhere, I wonder if its worth finding it?
It had something like a sure 95 with an elliptical diamond on the arm.

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

But presumably after the era of releasing your grip on the corner
of a square of green baize?

No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

Just to add, the 78 rpm only version I referred to above was mainly used
for playing in sound FX. Like, say, on a Goon Show. All done as live. I
believe that used 8 turntables and two operators. The skill levels were
incredible.

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually achieved
by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To allow a much
faster start, since there was little inertia, while retaining a heavy
turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct drive.

But presumably after the era of releasing your grip on the corner
of a square of green baize?

No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

Oh yes! I remember seeing those in the BBC studio at the first Radio
Show I went to when I was 14 - so that would be 1958. 301s with modified
bearings.

Don't know about 'motoring' though. I thought it was direct mechanical
linkage between the turntable bearing arrangement and the operating
lever.

The first time I saw someone doing the green baize trick - many years
later - my first reaction was "How crude!"

--

Terry

No - the BBC ...

Ahem, butting into this thread and going off topic, I see your sig says:

"It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep"

This is because you're thinking in UK terms. The sorts of sheep and goats
one would find in biblical territory do in fact look pretty much like each
other.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On Dec 16, 11:09*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *thirty-six wrote:

Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. *No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle.

But lots of rumble.

I was able to kill the rumble on the SP25 idler drive by mixing the
motor mounting rubbers. Cant remember arrangement but consist of both
grey and black for the three point mounting for the four pole motor.
Attention to the platter bearing will also help but I believe that the
changes in elastomers show that Garrard knew how to fix the problem
but didn't quite get round to it in production. I expect there was
also variations in the mounting plate for four pole motors.

Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

Depends on the preference of the owner. I prefer a quick start speed
and no lazzy bands, which rot.

On Dec 17, 6:40*am, thirty-six wrote:
On Dec 16, 11:09*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
* *thirty-six wrote:

Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. *No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle.

But lots of rumble.

I was able to kill the rumble on the SP25 idler drive by mixing the
motor mounting rubbers. *Cant remember arrangement but consist of both
grey and black for the three point mounting for the four pole motor.
Attention to the platter bearing will also help but I believe that the
changes in elastomers show that Garrard knew how to fix the problem
but didn't quite get round to it in production. *I expect there was
also variations in the mounting plate for four pole motors.

Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

Depends on the preference of the owner. *I prefer a quick start speed
and no lazzy bands, which rot.

I hope youre not suggesting that garrard had any connection with low
rumble decks.


NT

On Dec 16, 11:07*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *NT wrote:

Pause in a radio station - for cueing up a record - was usually
achieved by lifting the platter off the turntable in some way. To
allow a much faster start, since there was little inertia, while
retaining a heavy turntable for speed consistency, etc. Before direct
drive.
Yes, thats how those thorens worked. But the secondary platter of the
thorens isnt as good an idea as it sounds, as dropping the platter to
start the record causes a great big thunk, and someone's going to get
the fade up point wrong sooner or later. Hence it was common practice
to not use them, and just hold the record still with a finger to pause
it.

But the idea pre-dated stereo - and there's no vertical output from a mono
cartridge. Slip mats get round the problem.

Right. But when flimsy platter hits the heavy deck, I'll bet in
practice there's plenty of lateral in-phase noise as well. I could be
wrong though.


NT

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

Oh yes! I remember seeing those in the BBC studio at the first Radio
Show I went to when I was 14 - so that would be 1958. 301s with modified
bearings.

Don't know about 'motoring' though. I thought it was direct mechanical
linkage between the turntable bearing arrangement and the operating
lever.

There were two units based on the 301. The DRD5 was a single unit with a
mechanical lift mechanism, and a pickup arm fitted with an Acos crystal
cartridge. 33 and 45 only - designed to supplement an area with 78 rpm
only turntables.
The one I referred to was the RP2 - two units in one desk, and designed
for both microgroove and 78 rpm, with a Tannoy magnetric cartridge and
turnover stylus. This unit had the motorised lift. Must have cost a
fortune to make. It even had a mirror and light arrangement to show the
groove number (as it were) to aid track location.

--
*You can't teach an old mouse new clicks *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

Depends on the preference of the owner. I prefer a quick start speed
and no lazzy bands, which rot.

So did idler wheels. And develop 'flats' causing even more rumble.

My Thorens TD 150 is only on its third drive band - despite being some 40
years old.

Other problem with a idler drive system is the motor is usually under the
turntable. The stray fields from that can induce hum into some types of
pickups. A belt drive by nature has the motor outside the turntable, so
further away from the pickup at all times. It also allows the motor and
turntable to be independently mounted to further reduce noise and
vibration, etc. Idler drive requires a fairly strict relationship between
motor and turntable.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Dec 17, 10:44*am, NT wrote:
On Dec 17, 6:40*am, thirty-six wrote:









On Dec 16, 11:09*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
* *thirty-six wrote:

Idler drive gives a quick start and rock-steady performance. *No pitch
shift on the drum beat with those highly modulated singles and a low
compliance needle.

But lots of rumble.

I was able to kill the rumble on the SP25 idler drive by mixing the
motor mounting rubbers. *Cant remember arrangement but consist of both
grey and black for the three point mounting for the four pole motor.
Attention to the platter bearing will also help but I believe that the
changes in elastomers show that Garrard knew how to fix the problem
but didn't quite get round to it in production. *I expect there was
also variations in the mounting plate for four pole motors.

Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.

Depends on the preference of the owner. *I prefer a quick start speed
and no lazzy bands, which rot.

I hope youre not suggesting that garrard had any connection with low
rumble decks.

NT

They did also produce lazzy band drives. The top BSR decks under the
Macpherson (or some such) brand were rumoured to be from Garrard and
were of true Hi-fi standards (measured by myself as a service item).

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

Oh yes! I remember seeing those in the BBC studio at the first Radio
Show I went to when I was 14 - so that would be 1958. 301s with modified
bearings.

Don't know about 'motoring' though. I thought it was direct mechanical
linkage between the turntable bearing arrangement and the operating
lever.

There were two units based on the 301. The DRD5 was a single unit with a
mechanical lift mechanism, and a pickup arm fitted with an Acos crystal
cartridge. 33 and 45 only - designed to supplement an area with 78 rpm
only turntables.
The one I referred to was the RP2 - two units in one desk, and designed
for both microgroove and 78 rpm, with a Tannoy magnetric cartridge and
turnover stylus. This unit had the motorised lift. Must have cost a
fortune to make. It even had a mirror and light arrangement to show the
groove number (as it were) to aid track location.

I seem to recall a bank of illuminated indicators along the back, angled
at about 45 degrees which displayed the selected speed and flashed if
the wrong stylus appropriate to the speed was selected ...

--

Terry

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
No - the BBC made turntables which lifter the platter clear in 78 days -
before pop radio stations. They had a later very sophisticated version
which motored the turntable up and down - the platter resting on pads to
the side of the turntable. Based on a Garrard 301. The beauty of those
designs is you could cue up a record and leave it - unlike a slip mat
where you have to hold on to it.

Just to add, the 78 rpm only version I referred to above was mainly used
for playing in sound FX. Like, say, on a Goon Show. All done as live. I
believe that used 8 turntables and two operators. The skill levels were
incredible.

Ah! Another Radio Show memory - possibly 1959 or 1960 ...

One operator and four turntables. 25 years of broadcasting, or something
like that, at breakneck speed. All short clips, all on separate disks
and surrounded by the audience - which must have been off-putting! I was
fairly close to the action and it was a truly amazing sight.

It sounded good as well!

--

Terry

On Dec 17, 11:36*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *thirty-six wrote:

Turntables with the best measured signal to noise were
belt driven - before direct drive came along. FWIW, start speed is
unimportant for a domestic deck.
Depends on the preference of the owner. *I prefer a quick start speed
and no lazzy bands, which rot.

So did idler wheels. And develop 'flats' causing even more rumble.

I've not seen any permanent 'flats' in Garrard idler wheels. First of
all, they only occur when the drive is left engaged on the slower
speeds with the power disconnected, which is not the normal operating
procedure. Secondarily, they are only temporary and can be eliminated
by running the turntable with the motor-board clamped down for an
hour. The clamping down of the motor-board allows sufficient warmth
for the rubber to soften without deterioration and running with the
drive engaged massages the idler back into shape. The idler can also
be removed and softened in warm water, but then requires replacement,
lubrication and testing. It's easier just to clamp down the motor-
board for an hour.


My Thorens TD 150 is only on its third drive band - despite being some 40
years old.

To me, it's a wishy-washy system, a product of minimal and inferior
design.

Other problem with a idler drive system is the motor is usually under the
turntable. The stray fields from that can induce hum into some types of
pickups.

Put another half twist in the wires at the cartridge.

A belt drive by nature has the motor outside the turntable, so
further away from the pickup at all times. It also allows the motor and
turntable to be independently mounted to further reduce noise and
vibration, etc.

That's bodging it.

Idler drive requires a fairly strict relationship between
motor and turntable.

It'll make you smile when you fix one to be rumble-free. It's not
hard, you just need two different motor mounting rubbers and an O-ring
under the platter bearing.

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
There were two units based on the 301. The DRD5 was a single unit with a
mechanical lift mechanism, and a pickup arm fitted with an Acos crystal
cartridge. 33 and 45 only - designed to supplement an area with 78 rpm
only turntables.
The one I referred to was the RP2 - two units in one desk, and designed
for both microgroove and 78 rpm, with a Tannoy magnetric cartridge and
turnover stylus. This unit had the motorised lift. Must have cost a
fortune to make. It even had a mirror and light arrangement to show the
groove number (as it were) to aid track location.

I seem to recall a bank of illuminated indicators along the back, angled
at about 45 degrees which displayed the selected speed and flashed if
the wrong stylus appropriate to the speed was selected ...

That was the RP2, and would have been in a desk of two units. But in a TV
studio, commonly two of these giving four units in all.

The turntable was driven up and down by a motor allowing remote control,
if needed. Possibly from the backstop switch on a fader.

It also used the 110 volt winding on the Garrard motor. To allow a boost
at higher voltage when it was started up.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.