Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:07:10 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

But what they do want even if they don't say so is something that is or
has some familiarity to what their used to and thats almost always
working on an MS powered machine.....

For me, the reverse is true...I've been using UNIX for damn near double
the time that I've used Windows (I started with Win 3.1).

well I cant say really..CP/M in 1981, MSDOS about 1985, VMS 1985, Unix
1987 or so...Venix, SCO unix, Sunows 4, Sun Solaris, SySV unix, all
flavours of windows from 3.1 to XP at which point I gave up..Linux

On 02/11/2011 08:27, John Williamson wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 21:04, John Williamson wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 19:35, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2011 14:18, dennis@home wrote:


Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

Linux

They don't sell Linux.

https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html


They sell you the install media, and a level of support. They do not
charge for (i.e. sell) the GNU and GPL software.

Oh, so you have changed your mind, and now there *is* money in linux
and free software....

only took you three posts time time dennis.

You're not replying to Dennis....

You are right, my most humble apologies - that was an unwarranted
accusation!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

8

People download it, decide they don't like it and buy office home and
student, or get a copy off their friends (it can run on three machines so
its only ~£20 a copy).

No, they download it, decide they love it and never look back.

Most people download it and then forget it.
Home and student is cheap, the free office that most PCs come with does what
most people want.


Assuming they have some intelligence and knowledge of computers

Most people know nothing of computers.


If they are thick and think they are smart, they buy windows.

If they want friends and family to help they buy windows.

Almost nobody knows anyone knowledgeable enough about linux to get help.
there just aren't many linux experts out there.

If they are thick and rich and think they are smart, they buy a Mac,.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-01, dennis@home wrote:

There is no money in linux or other free software.

Oh, so Red Hat's business is imaginary, is it?

Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

They don't sell software. They sell support for software..the software is
of course 'free'

Its not free.
Care to point to the link where you can download all of RH enterprise for
free, legally that is.

On 02/11/2011 12:40, dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-01, dennis@home wrote:

There is no money in linux or other free software.

Oh, so Red Hat's business is imaginary, is it?

Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

They don't sell software. They sell support for software..the software
is of course 'free'

Its not free.
Care to point to the link where you can download all of RH enterprise
for free, legally that is.

Back peddling again Menace!

So there IS money in linux (as in something not Windows)? You said there
isn't.

I can see the subtle swing in the last few exchanges, and so can others.
You are quite greasy. How do you keep your trousers up?

--
Adrian C

On Nov 2, 11:37*am, Hugh Jampton wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:52:37 +0000, Scott M wrote:

[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

I'm running 7 (only use it for work stuff), and mine looks pretty
traditional! Apart from the Start button not saying, Start, that is.

My Start button says "Start" in large black letters. What are you people
doing I ask myself.

Simply choose "Windows Classic" from the Theme selections and, apart
from the menu layout, it looks like W95!

And that's good is it ? ;-0

been a while since I used W95, using W7 now previously ran XP.
I quite like W7 for a PC OS, I still prefer OS X .

There's some good things abot W7 and some rather annoying things too.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


How much did you think a mass produced CD and case cost to make then? ;-)

About 10p for the disk and about 15p for the case and inserts?

That is irrevlant ... that is production cost .... what you are paying for
is development & right to use intellectual property

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Andy Champ wrote:


Since applying SP2 Vista has been stable, no BSD (unlike my XP laptop)

On Nov 2, 12:11*pm, "dennis@home" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in ...

8

People download it, decide they don't like it and buy office home and
student, or get a copy off their friends (it can run on three machines so
its only ~£20 a copy).

No, they download it, decide they love it and never look back.

Most people download it and then forget it.
Home and student is cheap, the free office that most PCs come with does what
most people want.

Not forgetting there are ways for most people, (especaily those that
know what they are doing)
to obtain most software virtually free (a pint or two might be
involved).

As you say one of the most important things is nowing were to get
help
and as most people have used word adn windows to some extent that's
the one to go for given the chance/choice.


Assuming they have some intelligence and knowledge of computers

Most people know nothing of computers.

I think that is only true of those above 60 nowadays.
I dont; think you'll find many people that no nothing about
computers.



If they are thick and think they are smart, they buy windows.

If they want friends and family to help they buy windows.

Almost nobody knows anyone knowledgeable enough about linux to get help.
there just aren't many linux experts out there.

It;s an OS for a younger gen. for those that like hacking and messing
with an OS.
Those types spend more time getting things working and tingering with
them than they do using a computer
for 'real' work.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:

In an enterprise environment where the software savings would be immense
to use 'free Linux'...... there is no move to Linux on the desktop.

That is plain wrong.


How so ?
..... worked in several companies that have had Linux support people for
their own products, but ALL desktop / Laptop machines use Windows ... my
current company still on XP Pro, due to move to W7 next year.
The standard for desk top is MS office suite.

I work in finance sector all major banks I am involved with have windows on
desktop .... Linux only appears in server room.

On 02/11/2011 11:41, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2011 21:04, John Williamson wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 19:35, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2011 14:18, dennis@home wrote:


Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

Linux

They don't sell Linux.

https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html


They sell you the install media, and a level of support. They do not
charge for (i.e. sell) the GNU and GPL software.

Oh, so you have changed your mind, and now there *is* money in linux
and free software....

only took you three posts time time dennis.

You need to read more carefully, I haven't said that.
As I said there is no money in linux or free software.

I know what you said, and as Red Hat's business model demonstrates, what
you said can't be true. There is plenty of money "in" free software.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/11/2011 00:55, geoff wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

There really is little to commend Vista over Win7 beyond "that is what
the machine came with, and I can't be bothered to change it".

As you may know I only use the PC for limited things.

Are you the Amiga freak?

Twas me in its day... well Amiga fan anyway, (freak for other reasons ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

whisky-dave wrote:

wrote:

there just aren't many linux experts out there.

It;s an OS for a younger gen. for those that like hacking and messing
with an OS.

Plenty of grey-beards like it too ...

On 02/11/2011 13:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Nov 2, 11:37 am, Hugh wrote:
In , Bob Eager
writes

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:52:37 +0000, Scott M wrote:

[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

I'm running 7 (only use it for work stuff), and mine looks pretty
traditional! Apart from the Start button not saying, Start, that is.

My Start button says "Start" in large black letters. What are you people
doing I ask myself.

Simply choose "Windows Classic" from the Theme selections and, apart
from the menu layout, it looks like W95!

And that's good is it ? ;-0

Depends on your point of view... I had reason to fire up Win95 on a
Pentium 120 some time ago. I was amazed at just how fast and responsive
the GUI was in comparison to XP running on my C2Q 9550!

The desktop has never recovered its performance since some dozy muppet
glued Internet Explorer into it!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/11/2011 09:54, Mark wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:32:57 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 01/11/2011 21:12, NT wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:26 pm, John wrote:
On 01/11/2011 18:25, NT wrote:



On Oct 31, 10:10 pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
Carrying out upgrade so it has an element of diy :-)

PC is running Vista Ultimate (genuine licensed)
If I look around I can get Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade for about 150

However .. I can buy the student version for 59 ..http://www.software4students.co.uk/M...Ultimate_32_bi...

It even says family members of students can buy at this rate ?

How does this work ... does the big Bill gates empire time out the software
after 3 years, do they check you are a student ?

Anybody used the 'student' route to buy MS software ?

How it works is you sit around trying to work out how much you can pay
for windows when linux is now as user friendly,

Arguable, but not clear cut.

is better in most respects

If you can live with it not running the software you need.

is free, and also free of most horrible windows issues. Try

Swaps them for horrible "insert name of any other OS here" issues...

Mint 7, pretty much no learning curve to worry about.

And no need to learn it, because for most folks, any flavour of linux
really does not hack it on the desktop (yet).

Those points certainly used to be true. I think Mint really cracked it
a year or 2 back with Mint 6.


Does it run IE and active X, MS Office 2010, Photoshop CS5, InDesign,
Illustrator,& Dreamweaver?

Not being able to run IE and MS Office 2010 could be seen as an
advantage ;-)

Well to me yes, I agree. However if your whole business runs on an app
that sits on IE and MS Word, then its a moot point...

A lot of people think the UI of the MS Office is an abomination and
I've even pursuaded my kids to look at OpenOffice and LibreOffice
despite being brainwashed by Windows at school.

I am finding that for some people who knew Office 2000 and XP/2003, that
Libre office (or one of the variants) is actually a smoother transition
than MS Office 2007 or 10. (assuming they don't have massively
complicated document formats to open). So have managed to install a few
copies of the windows version of that into commercial offices.

If not its going to be a non starter for pretty much all of our business
customers. This may change with time, as more and more stuff moves to
web or cloud based offerings (once we can finally get shot of cludges
that depend on IE and embedded extensions for it). You have then just
got to overcome the inertia of the decision makers.

Part of the problem is that it is not easy to buy a PC without Windows
already installed.

Indeed for many users this is true, although in this particular case we
supply most of their machines and have them built to order, so it does
not really apply.

What about CoD Modern Warfare / Battlefield Bad Company etc? That makes
it less attractive as a home machine...

Buy an XBOX/PS3? IMHO you can buy a mid/low end PC and a console for
less money than a "gaming" PC.

I have never really been happy with consoles for gaming platforms (well
for the sort of games I like on a PC). Quite often they are dumbed down
for the console, and now are beginning to lag in the visual departments
as well. Using a mouse for a first person shooter still seems more
natural than a joypad.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/11/2011 11:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 21:12, NT wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:26 pm, John wrote:
On 01/11/2011 18:25, NT wrote:



On Oct 31, 10:10 pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
Carrying out upgrade so it has an element of diy :-)

PC is running Vista Ultimate (genuine licensed)
If I look around I can get Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade for about 150

However .. I can buy the student version for 59
..http://www.software4students.co.uk/M...Ultimate_32_bi...


It even says family members of students can buy at this rate ?

How does this work ... does the big Bill gates empire time out the
software
after 3 years, do they check you are a student ?

Anybody used the 'student' route to buy MS software ?

How it works is you sit around trying to work out how much you can pay
for windows when linux is now as user friendly,

Arguable, but not clear cut.

is better in most respects

If you can live with it not running the software you need.

is free, and also free of most horrible windows issues. Try

Swaps them for horrible "insert name of any other OS here" issues...

Mint 7, pretty much no learning curve to worry about.

And no need to learn it, because for most folks, any flavour of linux
really does not hack it on the desktop (yet).

Those points certainly used to be true. I think Mint really cracked it
a year or 2 back with Mint 6.


Does it run IE and active X,

Certaionly wouildn't bopher with that..use Firefox and javascript.

MS Office 2010,

Well neither would I, but if that is not an option, then what do you do?

wouldn't bother with that. Use open ooffice.

Photoshop CS5, InDesign,
Illustrator, & Dreamweaver?

Run that **** in a windows virtual machine Just need enough RAM and it
all works fine.

In the eyes of most business users, its adding a layer of complexity for
no real gain though. I would also be surprised if you get the full
benefit of the gfx acceleration that they have built into the later
versions going that route.

Remember in many cases you are dealing with a class of user that is
going to be completely thrown by receiving an email with an attachment
that they don't recognise.

In fact it works BETTER because if you keep data on the linux machine (
a mapped drive appears in windows) and windows gets totally borked, it#s
about a minute to revert to a stable windows setup that you
snapshotted..and windows NEVER goes near the internet so no viruses and
malware.

Yes you still need a windows licence..but heck, you hae that anyway
probably


If not its going to be a non starter for pretty much all of our
business customers. This may change with time, as more and more stuff
moves to web or cloud based offerings (once we can finally get shot of
cludges that depend on IE and embedded extensions for it). You have
then just got to overcome the inertia of the decision makers.

I think it goes best on 'new installs' ..legacy apps are always a bitch
classic 'lock in' strategy.

In some cases its just a case of "you don't want to start from here",
but since that is where you are starting from you have to live with it.

What about CoD Modern Warfare / Battlefield Bad Company etc? That
makes it less attractive as a home machine...


Well that's dual boot time. Or play a linux native game I guess.

Good luck getting granny to buy you that one in Tesco for Christmas!

In may case its stability, security and flexibility I need more than
gaming, and I run a windows VM for the legacy apps.

Things which come down to user behaviour more than OS choice these days.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/11/2011 23:42, Rick Hughes wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 01/11/2011 18:25, NT wrote:

And no need to learn it, because for most folks, any flavour of linux
really does not hack it on the desktop (yet).



That probably also explains that even in companies who have vast Linux
knowledge .. the standard OS on their PC's is still Windoze .

The company I work for has Linux developers & support teams ... yet
everyone has a Windoze m/c ....

In an enterprise environment where the software savings would be immense
to use 'free Linx'...... there is no move to Linux on the desktop.
Is this simply that everyone is so used to using Office/Adobe products
... and they work on Windows.

Indeed. Often the real cost saving gain is on the server side as well.
Ditch windows on a desktop and you might shave £30 off the price if you
are lucky. Lose it on a server and you can free yourself from the
multiple dips into your pocket that MS are very good at doing...

(did a quote for a customer recently so they could price which of two
service offerings was going to work out the cheapest. The vendor of one
products said that for up to ten users in one office, you could cope
with their software, MS SQL server, and a powerful workstation class
machine. For more users than that, or for any remote users, you need two
servers, one with remote desktop (aka Terminal Server as was), to enable
out of office access.

So the servers were cheap enough, £400 will buy you a decent HP
proliant. Then you start adding all the software (£890 for windows, £85
for every extra five users over 5 for CALs, £525 for every five Terminal
Server/Remote Desktop CALs, and another £1300 if you want a decent
backup application for the pair of them... that's before you pay someone
to configure it all, install it, and add VAT).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Nov 2, 11:44*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 1, 9:32 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...

59 quid is far too much. You can get easily better stuff on a USB
stick from a Linux distributer for about 20 quid. Eg Ubuntu Ultimate
Edition.

Talk about M$ rip offs, take a free product and charge 20 quid for
it +
a 1 quid stick.

Dunno why anyone would charge for linux at all, unless its for support.

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:11*pm, "dennis@home" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in ...
Most people know nothing of computers.

I think that is only true of those above 60 nowadays.
I dont; think you'll find many people that no nothing about
computers.

There's plenty of people who can turn on a computer, write a document
in a wordprocessor and check their email etc, but would have no idea
how to fix anything when things don't go to plan.


If they want friends and family to help they buy windows.

Almost nobody knows anyone knowledgeable enough about linux to get help.
there just aren't many linux experts out there.

It;s an OS for a younger gen. for those that like hacking and messing
with an OS.

IME few youngsters want to mess with an OS at all. They just want to
use facebook, play games etc. For them a computer is nothing special
since they have existed all their lives.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Nov 2, 9:54*am, Mark wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:32:57 +0000, John Rumm









wrote:
On 01/11/2011 21:12, NT wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:26 pm, John *wrote:
On 01/11/2011 18:25, NT wrote:

On Oct 31, 10:10 pm, "Rick Hughes"
* *wrote:
Carrying out upgrade so it *has an element of diy * :-)

PC is running Vista Ultimate *(genuine licensed)
If I look around I can get Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade for about 150

However .. I can buy the student version for 59 ..http://www.software4students.co.uk/M...Ultimate_32_bi...

It even says family members of students can buy at this rate ?

How does this work ... does the big Bill gates empire time out the software
after 3 years, do they check you are a student ?

Anybody used the 'student' route to buy MS software ?

How it works is you sit around trying to work out how much you can pay
for windows when linux is now as user friendly,

Arguable, but not clear cut.

* is better in most respects

If you can live with it not running the software you need.

is free, and also free of most horrible windows issues. Try

Swaps them for horrible "insert name of any other OS here" issues...

Mint 7, pretty much no learning curve to worry about.

And no need to learn it, because for most folks, any flavour of linux
really does not hack it on the desktop (yet).

Those points certainly used to be true. I think Mint really cracked it
a year or 2 back with Mint 6.

Does it run IE and active X, MS Office 2010, Photoshop CS5, InDesign,
Illustrator, & Dreamweaver?

Not being able to run IE and MS Office 2010 could be seen as an
advantage ;-)

A lot of people think the UI of the MS Office is an abomination and
I've even pursuaded my kids to look at OpenOffice and LibreOffice
despite being brainwashed by Windows at school.

Wait a while and they'll be screwed by the little incompatibilities
and have to redo all their homework at schoolin Office..

MBQ

On Nov 2, 3:26*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/11/2011 11:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:









John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 21:12, NT wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:26 pm, John wrote:
On 01/11/2011 18:25, NT wrote:

On Oct 31, 10:10 pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
Carrying out upgrade so it has an element of diy :-)

PC is running Vista Ultimate (genuine licensed)
If I look around I can get Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade for about 150

However .. I can buy the student version for 59
..http://www.software4students.co.uk/M...Ultimate_32_bi...

It even says family members of students can buy at this rate ?

How does this work ... does the big Bill gates empire time out the
software
after 3 years, do they check you are a student ?

Anybody used the 'student' route to buy MS software ?

How it works is you sit around trying to work out how much you can pay
for windows when linux is now as user friendly,

Arguable, but not clear cut.

is better in most respects

If you can live with it not running the software you need.

is free, and also free of most horrible windows issues. Try

Swaps them for horrible "insert name of any other OS here" issues...

Mint 7, pretty much no learning curve to worry about.

And no need to learn it, because for most folks, any flavour of linux
really does not hack it on the desktop (yet).

Those points certainly used to be true. I think Mint really cracked it
a year or 2 back with Mint 6.

Does it run IE and active X,

Certaionly wouildn't bopher with that..use Firefox and javascript.

MS Office 2010,

Well neither would I, but if that is not an option, then what do you do?

Just cerry on making glib comments whilst showing that you really do
not understand the issues of living and operating in the real world.

MBQ

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:17:31 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 02/11/2011 09:54, Mark wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:32:57 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Does it run IE and active X, MS Office 2010, Photoshop CS5, InDesign,
Illustrator,& Dreamweaver?

Not being able to run IE and MS Office 2010 could be seen as an
advantage ;-)

Well to me yes, I agree. However if your whole business runs on an app
that sits on IE and MS Word, then its a moot point...

And a lot of clients insist that their software is designed for
windows/IE.

A lot of people think the UI of the MS Office is an abomination and
I've even pursuaded my kids to look at OpenOffice and LibreOffice
despite being brainwashed by Windows at school.

I am finding that for some people who knew Office 2000 and XP/2003, that
Libre office (or one of the variants) is actually a smoother transition
than MS Office 2007 or 10.

Yes. The UI of OO or LO is much closer to older versions of MS Office
than 2007/10.

If not its going to be a non starter for pretty much all of our business
customers. This may change with time, as more and more stuff moves to
web or cloud based offerings (once we can finally get shot of cludges
that depend on IE and embedded extensions for it). You have then just
got to overcome the inertia of the decision makers.

Part of the problem is that it is not easy to buy a PC without Windows
already installed.

Indeed for many users this is true, although in this particular case we
supply most of their machines and have them built to order, so it does
not really apply.

What about CoD Modern Warfare / Battlefield Bad Company etc? That makes
it less attractive as a home machine...

Buy an XBOX/PS3? IMHO you can buy a mid/low end PC and a console for
less money than a "gaming" PC.

I have never really been happy with consoles for gaming platforms (well
for the sort of games I like on a PC). Quite often they are dumbed down
for the console, and now are beginning to lag in the visual departments
as well. Using a mouse for a first person shooter still seems more
natural than a joypad.

Mostly I agree. However recently a lot of games are written for
console and then ported to PC with no enhancements. This is holding
back the whole market; although it means I don't need to upgrade my
PCs so frequently to run the latest games.

I prefer PC keyboard/mouse probably because I am used to it but I
don't mind the xbox controller. OTOH I hate the sony PS2/3
controllers.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Nov 2, 2:04*pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in ...

Rick Hughes wrote:
In an enterprise environment where the software savings would be immense
to use 'free Linux'...... there is no move to Linux on the desktop.

That is plain wrong.

How so ?

It just looks that way with a blinkered viewpoint.

.... worked in several companies that have had Linux support people for
their own products, but ALL desktop / Laptop machines use Windows

+1

... my
current company still on XP Pro, due to move to W7 *next year.

+1, skipped Vista completely

The standard for desk top is MS office suite.

+1

MBQ

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 11:37:11 +0000, Hugh Jampton wrote:

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:52:37 +0000, Scott M wrote:

[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

I'm running 7 (only use it for work stuff), and mine looks pretty
traditional! Apart from the Start button not saying, Start, that is.


My Start button says "Start" in large black letters. What are you people
doing I ask myself.

Simply choose "Windows Classic" from the Theme selections and, apart
from the menu layout, it looks like W95!

Just my configuration choices. I hate 'Start'...!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:05:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:07:10 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

But what they do want even if they don't say so is something that is
or has some familiarity to what their used to and thats almost always
working on an MS powered machine.....

For me, the reverse is true...I've been using UNIX for damn near double
the time that I've used Windows (I started with Win 3.1).

well I cant say really..CP/M in 1981, MSDOS about 1985, VMS 1985, Unix
1987 or so...Venix, SCO unix, Sunows 4, Sun Solaris, SySV unix, all
flavours of windows from 3.1 to XP at which point I gave up..Linux

A latecomer to UNIX, then....!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Huge wrote:
On 2011-11-02, Hugh Jampton wrote:
[snip]

If you just want to browse, do e-mail and run Mickey Mouse, Toys "R" Us
applications then Linux is for you!

You're an idiot.

That is impressively generous of you as an assessment. You're definitely
mellowing with age.

I must tell last year's client that the massive cluster of RHE kit that
they installed is only good for browsing, email and 'Mickey Mouse, Toys "R"
Us applications.' although the fact that a man calling himself a prick gave
the advice may well cause them to ignore his views.

On Nov 1, 8:15*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2011 19:35, dennis@home wrote:



"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2011 14:18, dennis@home wrote:

Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

Linux

They don't sell Linux.

https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html

The Network and modem connection software on this Ubuntu PC is from
RedHat. One click and I am connected to "3" in as much time as it
takes to open Firefox.

Trying to get connected on a Microsoft machine was exactly that,
trying!

I am aware that Linux has limitations. For me it's good enough.
I was using it long enough to forget I needed antivirus and antiviral
scan schedules when I got the laptop with Vista on. Then I remembered
that more than 2 hours a week was dedicated to nurturing my XP like an
hot-house plant.

It's swings and roundabouts is it not?

On Nov 1, 9:36*pm, "dennis@home" wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message

o.uk...

On 01/11/2011 19:35, dennis@home wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2011 14:18, dennis@home wrote:

Ok tell us which free software RH sell?

Linux

They don't sell Linux.

https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html

Thats not Linux they are selling.
Its a product based on Linux with their own add-ons.
If you want the add-ons you pay, if you don't its free.

Did you use to be IMM?

Anyone remember that idiot that told me there was no such thing as
rising damp?
Ah the good old days.

On Nov 1, 11:26*pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

...
On Nov 1, 9:32 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Ricky baby, go buy WTH you like.
For the rest of us:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/

As all my apps are MS windows apps .... don't want to switch to a
non-compatible OS and start again.


Fairy Nuff.
Some people lose sight of the fact that freedom cost many lives.
It's the only reason I hate the philosophy of Microsoft. I don't
dislike the product.

On Nov 1, 10:52*am, Scott M wrote:
Rick Hughes wrote:
PC is running Vista Ultimate *(genuine licensed)
If I look around I can get Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade for about £150

I boggle at the thought of paying for an OS...

I can't understand why anyone would run Win7[1]...

The thought of paying money for the pile of steaming cr@p that is Win7
is off the radar!

[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

[2] This'll be the sad, sad day when I can't get drivers that work in XP :-(

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

I heard a rumour that Windows 8 is going to lock out all alternative
operating systems. The idea is to protect the box from people like
Sony.

I can't see the superior coders of successive Linux OS' even pre Win8
OSs being stymied though. By the time it finally crawls out the swamp
I imagine most real distros will be waiting to give it a thorough
seeing to.

(Should be fun.)
Anyone remember Longhorn?

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


How much did you think a mass produced CD and case cost to make then?
;-)

About 10p for the disk and about 15p for the case and inserts?

That is irrevlant ... that is production cost .... what you are paying for
is development & right to use intellectual property

That is the correct answer, the question wasn't about putting any particular
content on the disk.
For instance the cost for a linux distro is an additional 0p.

In article , Huge wrote:
On 2011-11-02, Rick Hughes wrote:

If Steve Jobs had not been so adamant that only Apple could sell anything
running MacOS .... and had instead licensed the MacOS system, Windows would
never have got off the ground.
Funny that people see him almost God like.

You do realise that Apple is now bigger than Microsoft, don't you?


that depends how you class "bigger"...

in some ways, yes. In others, not close

Darren

In article ,
Rick Hughes wrote:

If Steve Jobs had not been so adamant that only Apple could sell anything
running MacOS .... and had instead licensed the MacOS system, Windows would
never have got off the ground.

but then would MacOS be the windows that everyone bitches about, and Windows
would be the underdog with fanbois?


Darren - sold his soul to Apple years ago

On 1 Nov 2011 19:34:13 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:52:37 +0000, Scott M wrote:

[1] I would actually, in preference, run Vista[2] than 7 as you can at
least turn off the ghastly graphics and made it look like TradWin.

I'm running 7 (only use it for work stuff), and mine looks pretty
traditional! Apart from the Start button not saying, Start, that is.

Why, does it now say shutdown?


--

On 02/11/2011 21:10, dennis@home wrote:

What i said is true!
You aren't even allowed to sell stuff under most of the free software
licenses.

Dennis, do you have the slightest clue about what a licence such as GPL
actually means?

On 02/11/2011 18:34, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If they are thick and think they are smart, they buy windows. If they
are thick and rich and think they are smart, they buy a Mac,.

Thick eh? Must be why my nephew Stephen uses Macs. You can look him up
in WinkyPedia.




Interesting issue on Macs ... my first computer was an AppleIIe
Then an SE30, ClassicII, Quadra, 7200 and a Mac powerbook ........
The company I was with then could no longer support paying over the odds
for Macs, or wait for software that was typically at least 18 months
late arriving on Mac.
The PC's had now become so much cheaper for any given unit .... company
could buy 2 faster PC's for 1 mac.

They ended up throwing them all away .... I had a whole bundle of Mac
PowerPC's, monitors & printers and gave them to local school.

If Steve Jobs had not been so adamant that only Apple could sell
anything running MacOS .... and had instead licensed the MacOS system,
Windows would never have got off the ground.
Funny that people see him almost God like.

Jobs was focused on the wrong enemy... he perceived IBM as the threat,
not MS. Daft thing is, it now easier to run Mac OS on generic hardware
than at any time in the past.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 22:30:02 +0000, Clive George wrote:

On 02/11/2011 21:10, dennis@home wrote:

What i said is true!
You aren't even allowed to sell stuff under most of the free software
licenses.

Dennis, do you have the slightest clue about what a licence such as GPL
actually means?

Clearly not. But he'll wriggle and claim that GPL isn't significant as it
isn't very common! .-)



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Clive George wrote:

On 02/11/2011 21:10, dennis@home wrote:

What i said is true!
You aren't even allowed to sell stuff under most of the free software
licenses.

Dennis, do you have the slightest clue about what a licence such as GPL
actually means?

He doesn't even know how to *spell* licence.

Nor does the spell chucker.
What's more I don't care.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 22:30:02 +0000, Clive George wrote:

On 02/11/2011 21:10, dennis@home wrote:

What i said is true!
You aren't even allowed to sell stuff under most of the free software
licenses.

Dennis, do you have the slightest clue about what a licence such as GPL
actually means?

Clearly not. But he'll wriggle and claim that GPL isn't significant as it
isn't very common! .-)

I like the GPL.
Especially the bit that says I can redistribute any software free, even if
the original provider charges a fee.
It sort of limits what you can charge to, well nothing.

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 23:29:54 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 22:30:02 +0000, Clive George wrote:

On 02/11/2011 21:10, dennis@home wrote:

What i said is true!
You aren't even allowed to sell stuff under most of the free software
licenses.

Dennis, do you have the slightest clue about what a licence such as
GPL actually means?

Clearly not. But he'll wriggle and claim that GPL isn't significant as
it isn't very common! .-)

I like the GPL.
Especially the bit that says I can redistribute any software free, even
if the original provider charges a fee.
It sort of limits what you can charge to, well nothing.

GPL section 4:

"4. Conveying Verbatim Copies.

You may convey verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you
receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and
appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice; keep
intact all notices stating that this License and any non-permissive terms
added in accord with section 7 apply to the code; keep intact all notices
of the absence of any warranty; and give all recipients a copy of this
License along with the Program.

You may charge any price or no price for each copy that you convey, and
you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee."

Wrong again, dennis. But I'm sure you will wriggle again.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor