We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though we
are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer maps.
Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally there
wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one way
valve.
However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be (vertically)
from the toilet itself.

Any advice welcome.

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David WE Roberts wrote:

We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though
we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer
maps. Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally
there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are you
going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be (vertically)
from the toilet itself.

Any advice welcome.

Cheers

Dave R


--
Tim Watts

In message , David WE Roberts
writes
We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to
the first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as
though we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on
any sewer maps.
Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally
there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We have several runs of soil pipes crossing our house. Two are
sandwiched between the oversite concrete and the floor screed. A
concrete lintel carries the wall above them. The 3rd is deeper and
passes through the foundations of an extension. Again, protected by a
concrete lintel.

Rodding access is a consideration. The other issue we found is that
drain trenches must not be deeper than a line drawn at 45deg. from the
bottom of the building foundation. Not a problem for a right angle
crossing but tricky when parallel.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle
of the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one
way valve.
However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be
(vertically) from the toilet itself.

Is this a *stubby stack*? I have a similar job to do and eagerly await
the responses:-)

Any advice welcome.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:

We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though
we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer
maps. Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally
there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle
of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one
way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are you
going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the
floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be
(vertically)
from the toilet itself.


Sorry, lack of clarity.
Should have said soil stack.
Old style, you hacve a soil stack which opens to the air above the house and
away from windows etc.
New style, you can have a stack which terminates inside the house and has a
one way valve to let air in but not sewer gasses out.
AFAIK you have to be able to let air into the end of the run of soil pipe to
prevent siphonage of the U bend.
Just wondering how tall the internal soil stack has to be.
It would be nice for it to be discreet.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , David WE Roberts
writes
We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though
we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer
maps.
Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally there
wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We have several runs of soil pipes crossing our house. Two are sandwiched
between the oversite concrete and the floor screed. A concrete lintel
carries the wall above them. The 3rd is deeper and passes through the
foundations of an extension. Again, protected by a concrete lintel.

Rodding access is a consideration. The other issue we found is that drain
trenches must not be deeper than a line drawn at 45deg. from the bottom of
the building foundation. Not a problem for a right angle crossing but
tricky when parallel.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one way
valve.
However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be (vertically)
from the toilet itself.

Is this a *stubby stack*? I have a similar job to do and eagerly await the
responses:-)


A stubby stack was what I was imagining - the question being how stubby can
you get?

The extension will be single storey so no great load.
The current soil pipe is where the side wall would be, so if it stays I
presume we build round it.
Need to go and chat to some neighbours.
The short run of pipe would be diagonally under the floor to the back, and
the rodding arrangements would not change - there is no rodding hole in the
stack and access is from the manhole at the back of the house.
The iron stack would be replaced by plastic as we have to re-route the bath
and shower into the soil stack as they come down into the centre of the back
of the house ATM.

The new horizontal soil pipe would go from the centre of the house to the
side where the drains run from the back of the house out to the road.
I am assuming it can go under the suspended wooden floor and out through the
foundations and not above the floor along the wall and straight through the
kitchen. Another issue to sort out :-)

One option is to dispense with the old soil stack completely and relocate
the bathroom outlets to the centre of the house above the downstairs toilet
and put everything one one new pipe.
However this does limit our options a bit because there isn't much overlap
between upstairs and downstairs bathrooms.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David WE Roberts wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:

We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to
the first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as
though we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on
any sewer maps. Other hpuses along our row have already done this so
traditionally there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle
of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one
way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are
you going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the
floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be
(vertically)
from the toilet itself.


Sorry, lack of clarity.
Should have said soil stack.
Old style, you hacve a soil stack which opens to the air above the house
and away from windows etc.
New style, you can have a stack which terminates inside the house and has
a one way valve to let air in but not sewer gasses out.
AFAIK you have to be able to let air into the end of the run of soil pipe
to prevent siphonage of the U bend.
Just wondering how tall the internal soil stack has to be.
It would be nice for it to be discreet.


ah - then what you mean is called an "AAV" or Air Admittance Valve.

A one-way or non return valve implies a different beastie that is used to
prevent backflow and flooding from the main sewer.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...00833473?hl=en

Have a look down the last few pics in the above album ^^^

The lumpy grey thing on the left in the boxing-in is an AAV. Specifically it
is a Floplast AAV that is designed to be installed below the flood line (the
sink typically, or the top of the pan depending on what feeds in.

There is a min height above the pan connector - the full details are he

http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...1550&catid=282

(hunt around for the leaflet or data sheet - mounting details and diagrams
are in there).

But, typically it means this particular AAV can be mounted so its top is
more of less at the level of the pan/bog seat which makes for neat boxing
in.

Another possibly acceptable solution is to use a HepVO valve in the run to
the basin and use that as a method of venting the soil branch.

Personally, I like the Floplast - do not substitue to another manufacturer,
usually AAVs have to be installed much higher. But the Floplast is readily
available and cheap. It's fairly quiet in operation - slight "blurp" - I've
heard much worse ones (massive "farty" noises when letting air in).

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

On 19/10/2011 12:06, David WE Roberts wrote:
We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to
the first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as
though we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on
any sewer maps.
Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally there
wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

When we had an extension built it went ove a foul water sewer and a
surface water sewer from next door. All that was required was lintels
where the pipes passed through the foundations for the walls. There
were joints (in the plastic pipe) which would have been in the middle of
the extension so, being ultra cautious I made sure that there was a
jointless run of pipe under the extension

Malcolm

On Oct 19, 12:14*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
David WE Roberts wrote:
We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though
we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer
maps. Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally
there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are you
going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be (vertically)
from the toilet itself.

Any advice welcome.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Tim Watts

Mix up in terminology.
Soil pipe =vent pipe
One way valve = vacuum release valve

On Oct 19, 12:41*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message

...









David WE Roberts wrote:

We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though
we are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer
maps. Other hpuses along our row have already done this so traditionally
there wasn't a problem.
However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the middle
of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a one
way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are you
going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the
floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be
(vertically)
from the toilet itself.

Sorry, lack of clarity.
Should have said soil stack.
Old style, you hacve a soil stack which opens to the air above the house and
away from windows etc.
New style, you can have a stack which terminates inside the house and has a
one way valve to let air in but not sewer gasses out.
AFAIK you have to be able to let air into the end of the run of soil pipe to
prevent siphonage of the U bend.
Just wondering how tall the internal soil stack has to be.

It has to be higher than the highest water level. If, e.g., it's below
the level of the washbasin and the whole system gets blocked, with a
basin full of water, when you remove the AAV the head of water in the
basin may force "stuff" (not neccessarily just water) out of the top
of the AAV.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:


It has to be higher than the highest water level. If, e.g., it's below
the level of the washbasin and the whole system gets blocked, with a
basin full of water, when you remove the AAV the head of water in the
basin may force "stuff" (not neccessarily just water) out of the top
of the AAV.

That is generally true - but if you refer to my message of a couple of days
ago, the Floplast does *not* have this requirement, which makes it ideal for
the OP's application ;-
--
Tim Watts

On Oct 19, 12:06*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
We are looking at extending out at the back of the house.
This would involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the
first manhole if we don't relocate stuff.
I have had a brief trawl through the Building Regs and it looks as though we
are O.K. as long as the first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer maps.


I'd be surprised if it made it OK just because it isn't on the sewer
map. It might well be a public sewer; if it was built before 1937
(IIRC) and serves more than one house then it is IIRC.

With Thames Water (for example) you need to get their agreement if
you build within 3 metres of it or over it.

http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde...hs.xsl/693.htm

Robert

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:07:22 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

David WE Roberts wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:

We are looking at extending out at the back of the house. This would
involve building over a run of soil pipe from the stack to the first
manhole if we don't relocate stuff. I have had a brief trawl through
the Building Regs and it looks as though we are O.K. as long as the
first run of pipe does not appear on any sewer maps. Other hpuses
along our row have already done this so traditionally there wasn't a
problem. However it would be good to know that this is O.K.

We are also going to build a new downstairs shower/toilet in the
middle of
the house.
I am assuming that we don't need a soil pipe but can manage with a
one way
valve.

??? Don't understand... Unless you are installing a macerator, how are
you going to manage without a soil pipe?

I have a bog in the middle of the house with the soil pipe under the
floor -
I have no one way valves. Do you expect back flooding from the sewer?

However, I don't yet know how far the one way valve has to be
(vertically)
from the toilet itself.


Sorry, lack of clarity.
Should have said soil stack.
Old style, you hacve a soil stack which opens to the air above the
house and away from windows etc.
New style, you can have a stack which terminates inside the house and
has a one way valve to let air in but not sewer gasses out. AFAIK you
have to be able to let air into the end of the run of soil pipe to
prevent siphonage of the U bend.
Just wondering how tall the internal soil stack has to be. It would be
nice for it to be discreet.


ah - then what you mean is called an "AAV" or Air Admittance Valve.

A one-way or non return valve implies a different beastie that is used
to prevent backflow and flooding from the main sewer.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...6185710819272/
albums/5646554496300833473?hl=en

Have a look down the last few pics in the above album ^^^

The lumpy grey thing on the left in the boxing-in is an AAV.
Specifically it is a Floplast AAV that is designed to be installed below
the flood line (the sink typically, or the top of the pan depending on
what feeds in.

There is a min height above the pan connector - the full details are
he

http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...1550&catid=282

(hunt around for the leaflet or data sheet - mounting details and
diagrams are in there).

But, typically it means this particular AAV can be mounted so its top is
more of less at the level of the pan/bog seat which makes for neat
boxing in.

Another possibly acceptable solution is to use a HepVO valve in the run
to the basin and use that as a method of venting the soil branch.

Personally, I like the Floplast - do not substitue to another
manufacturer, usually AAVs have to be installed much higher. But the
Floplast is readily available and cheap. It's fairly quiet in operation
- slight "blurp" - I've heard much worse ones (massive "farty" noises
when letting air in).

Cheers

Tim

So looking at that, I could replace the hideous eyesore we have had since
moving in (about 10' high, and "S" bending around the eaves) with a 5'
pipe and external AAV ?

What's the best way to replace a cast iron pipe with plastic, regarding
joining below the ground level ?

How much can I get for about 100Kg cast iron ?

On Oct 19, 2:13*pm, Malcolm wrote:

When we had an extension built it went ove a foul water sewer and a
surface water sewer from next door. *All that was required was lintels
where the pipes passed through the foundations for the walls. *There
were joints (in the plastic pipe) which would have been in the middle of
the extension so, being ultra cautious I made sure that there was a
jointless run of pipe under the extension

It's a pity the people who extended my parents' house (before they
bought it) were'nt equally cautious. Not only are there lots of joints
- they couldn't really avoid that since this was before the days of
plastic pipes - there are also two manholes inside the extension, one
of which is at a near right angle bend in the pipe...

Jethro wrote:


So looking at that, I could replace the hideous eyesore we have had since
moving in (about 10' high, and "S" bending around the eaves) with a 5'
pipe and external AAV ?

If you have 5' above the eaves, why do you have an AAV? Are your sure - such
pipes are normally open to air.

Assuming I'm right, you may or may not be able to replace it. Under some
conditions, you *should* have an open to air vent on the furthest branch of
your local drain so it can vent postive pressure (AAVs only vent for
suction). You'll have to look at the building regs, part-whatever-drainage
is.


What's the best way to replace a cast iron pipe with plastic, regarding
joining below the ground level ?

Wait for someone else, no idea....

How much can I get for about 100Kg cast iron ?

If the merchant is near, some beer money. If the merchant is miles and miles
away, I'd just leave it for the pikies because I;m lazy like that...

--
Tim Watts

On 20 Oct,
RobertL wrote:

I'd be surprised if it made it OK just because it isn't on the sewer
map. It might well be a public sewer; if it was built before 1937
(IIRC) and serves more than one house then it is IIRC.

If it's built after that and carries effluent from another property it is now
(from Oct 1st) the water authority's responsibility.

I notice B&Q now have drain rods on offer. Mine now have a new life (after
cleaning) for drawing cables.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Jethro wrote:


So looking at that, I could replace the hideous eyesore we have had since
moving in (about 10' high, and "S" bending around the eaves) with a 5'
pipe and external AAV ?

If you have 5' above the eaves, why do you have an AAV? Are your sure -
such
pipes are normally open to air.

snip

Ummm.......
As I read it, the current pipe does not have an AAV.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:40:26 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Jethro wrote:


So looking at that, I could replace the hideous eyesore we have had
since moving in (about 10' high, and "S" bending around the eaves) with
a 5' pipe and external AAV ?

If you have 5' above the eaves, why do you have an AAV? Are your sure -
such pipes are normally open to air.

No there's no AAV. The current cast iron stack is about 10' high and
looks ghastly.

Assuming I'm right, you may or may not be able to replace it. Under some
conditions, you *should* have an open to air vent on the furthest branch
of your local drain so it can vent postive pressure (AAVs only vent for
suction). You'll have to look at the building regs,
part-whatever-drainage is.


What's the best way to replace a cast iron pipe with plastic, regarding
joining below the ground level ?

Wait for someone else, no idea....

How much can I get for about 100Kg cast iron ?

If the merchant is near, some beer money. If the merchant is miles and
miles away, I'd just leave it for the pikies because I;m lazy like
that...

Since we get at least 3 scrappies a week driving round, the physical
removal is not a problem. I just wondered if it was worth anything ...

David WE Roberts wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Jethro wrote:


So looking at that, I could replace the hideous eyesore we have had
since moving in (about 10' high, and "S" bending around the eaves) with
a 5' pipe and external AAV ?

If you have 5' above the eaves, why do you have an AAV? Are your sure -
such
pipes are normally open to air.

snip

Ummm.......
As I read it, the current pipe does not have an AAV.


Oh yes, you're right. I misread:
"and external AAV"
--
Tim Watts