Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

Looks like I need self-regulating heater tape + thermostat +
additional lagging over the junction with the rectangular
downpipe.

As it is a rainwater downpipe, it is open at the top. Am I
wasting my time (or money) trying to heat the bottom of this?
Should I just try to ensure that the actual waste pipe is heated

I can find some suitable parts at TLC, and a few specialist
suppliers.

Can anybody recommend a good value kit for the job?

Where would I find off cuts of sheet Armaflex at a reasonable
price?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

Looks like I need self-regulating heater tape + thermostat +
additional lagging over the junction with the rectangular
downpipe.

As it is a rainwater downpipe, it is open at the top. Am I
wasting my time (or money) trying to heat the bottom of this?
Should I just try to ensure that the actual waste pipe is heated

I can find some suitable parts at TLC, and a few specialist
suppliers.

Can anybody recommend a good value kit for the job?

Where would I find off cuts of sheet Armaflex at a reasonable
price?

Chris

Can you not run the condensate pipe (from a boiler?) into another drain?
I'm not sure If it can even go into rainwater! Or have got the wrong end of
the stick?

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

On Sep 2, 3:06*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

Looks like I need self-regulating heater tape + thermostat +
additional lagging over the junction with the rectangular
downpipe.

As it is a rainwater downpipe, it is open at the top. Am I
wasting my time (or money) trying to heat the bottom of this?
Should I just try to ensure that the actual waste pipe is heated

I can find some suitable parts at TLC, and a few specialist
suppliers.

Can anybody recommend a good value kit for the job?

Where would I find off cuts of sheet Armaflex at a reasonable
price?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Bring it indoors, connect to a drain for a sink etc. is best solution.

Dean Heighington wrote:

Can you not run the condensate pipe (from a boiler?) into another drain?
I'm not sure If it can even go into rainwater! Or have got the wrong end of
the stick?

and harry wrote:

Bring it indoors, connect to a drain for a sink etc. is best solution.

I posted the full story a couple of times earlier in the year,
and didn't really get anything back which was particularly
useful. Here it is again:

My boiler is in the integral garage, and the condensate drain was
taken through the wall, vertically down for a short distance to
join with an existing 32 mm pipe, the drain from a sink. This
then runs at a shallow angle for about 3 metres, where it joins
into the rainwater downpipe, eventually discharging into a
soakaway. (I didn't fit the sink, I know it is not really
correct.)

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe. Luckily, I was able to thaw it relatively easily, and
then kept the pipe clear by periodically running water from the
sink to prevent any ice accumulation.

There are no possible alternative drainage points.

Since, by its nature, the downpipe will be open to air, I don't
see much point in trying to get sheet insulation around the
junction point.

(1) I could consider routing the solvent-weld drain internally
through the garage, to reduce the exposure, but it would be a
fiddly run, and the junction point issue still arises.

(2) In addition to (1), I could, adapting a recent suggestion in
a different context, use a swept-tee in place of a 90 degree
bend, and insert a solvent weld screw-cap end in the "unused" leg
of the tee, just before it passes through the wall. When it
freezes, I could remove the cap and allow it to drain into a
bucket. This is fine so long as it doesn't have to be left
unattended.

(3) I could use trace heating, either with the installation as it
is, or having modified as (1) above. I guess this still requires
me to lag the heated area, with hand-crafted chunks of expensive
Armaflex.

Any thoughts and experiences on the best way to proceed, to get
the best result for least work and expense?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

Looks like I need self-regulating heater tape + thermostat +
additional lagging over the junction with the rectangular
downpipe.

As it is a rainwater downpipe, it is open at the top. Am I
wasting my time (or money) trying to heat the bottom of this?
Should I just try to ensure that the actual waste pipe is heated

I can find some suitable parts at TLC, and a few specialist
suppliers.

Can anybody recommend a good value kit for the job?

Where would I find off cuts of sheet Armaflex at a reasonable
price?


Condidering my downpipe froze solid last winter you would probably need to
heat it to the bottom.

--
Adam

Chris J Dixon wrote:

I posted the full story a couple of times earlier in the year,
and didn't really get anything back which was particularly
useful. Here it is again:

My boiler is in the integral garage, and the condensate drain was
taken through the wall, vertically down for a short distance to
join with an existing 32 mm pipe, the drain from a sink. This
then runs at a shallow angle for about 3 metres, where it joins
into the rainwater downpipe, eventually discharging into a
soakaway. (I didn't fit the sink, I know it is not really
correct.)

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe. Luckily, I was able to thaw it relatively easily, and
then kept the pipe clear by periodically running water from the
sink to prevent any ice accumulation.

There are no possible alternative drainage points.

Since, by its nature, the downpipe will be open to air, I don't
see much point in trying to get sheet insulation around the
junction point.

(1) I could consider routing the solvent-weld drain internally
through the garage, to reduce the exposure, but it would be a
fiddly run, and the junction point issue still arises.

(2) In addition to (1), I could, adapting a recent suggestion in
a different context, use a swept-tee in place of a 90 degree
bend, and insert a solvent weld screw-cap end in the "unused" leg
of the tee, just before it passes through the wall. When it
freezes, I could remove the cap and allow it to drain into a
bucket. This is fine so long as it doesn't have to be left
unattended.

(3) I could use trace heating, either with the installation as it
is, or having modified as (1) above. I guess this still requires
me to lag the heated area, with hand-crafted chunks of expensive
Armaflex.

Any thoughts and experiences on the best way to proceed, to get
the best result for least work and expense?

Chris

Sorry Chris. Condensate drains are notorious for freezing up and yours
should defo not be going into a soakaway, along with the basin waste... Not
100% on laws but am sure it's fineable offence. I can only suggest that you
lag the pipe with foam lagging and then perhaps larger diameter around that
and then cloth round that and deal with freezing on an as it happens basis
with a hairdryer. Perhaps this winter won't be as severe! Not what you want
to hear I'm sure but you really should be looking at alternative route to
sewer drain.


--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

Dean Heighington wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:

I posted the full story a couple of times earlier in the year,
and didn't really get anything back which was particularly
useful. Here it is again:

My boiler is in the integral garage, and the condensate drain was
taken through the wall, vertically down for a short distance to
join with an existing 32 mm pipe, the drain from a sink. This
then runs at a shallow angle for about 3 metres, where it joins
into the rainwater downpipe, eventually discharging into a
soakaway. (I didn't fit the sink, I know it is not really
correct.)

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe. Luckily, I was able to thaw it relatively easily, and
then kept the pipe clear by periodically running water from the
sink to prevent any ice accumulation.

There are no possible alternative drainage points.

Since, by its nature, the downpipe will be open to air, I don't
see much point in trying to get sheet insulation around the
junction point.

(1) I could consider routing the solvent-weld drain internally
through the garage, to reduce the exposure, but it would be a
fiddly run, and the junction point issue still arises.

(2) In addition to (1), I could, adapting a recent suggestion in
a different context, use a swept-tee in place of a 90 degree
bend, and insert a solvent weld screw-cap end in the "unused" leg
of the tee, just before it passes through the wall. When it
freezes, I could remove the cap and allow it to drain into a
bucket. This is fine so long as it doesn't have to be left
unattended.

(3) I could use trace heating, either with the installation as it
is, or having modified as (1) above. I guess this still requires
me to lag the heated area, with hand-crafted chunks of expensive
Armaflex.

Any thoughts and experiences on the best way to proceed, to get
the best result for least work and expense?

Chris

Sorry Chris. Condensate drains are notorious for freezing up and yours
should defo not be going into a soakaway, along with the basin
waste... Not 100% on laws but am sure it's fineable offence. I can
only suggest that you lag the pipe with foam lagging and then perhaps
larger diameter around that and then cloth round that and deal with
freezing on an as it happens basis with a hairdryer. Perhaps this
winter won't be as severe! Not what you want to hear I'm sure but you
really should be looking at alternative route to sewer drain.


If the condenate cannot go into a soakaway then whey can you buy soakaway
kits for condensing boilers?

--
Adam

harry wrote:

On Sep 2, 3:06*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

Looks like I need self-regulating heater tape + thermostat +
additional lagging over the junction with the rectangular
downpipe.

As it is a rainwater downpipe, it is open at the top. Am I
wasting my time (or money) trying to heat the bottom of this?
Should I just try to ensure that the actual waste pipe is heated

I can find some suitable parts at TLC, and a few specialist
suppliers.

Can anybody recommend a good value kit for the job?

Where would I find off cuts of sheet Armaflex at a reasonable
price?

Bring it indoors, connect to a drain for a sink etc. is best solution.

That just isn't feasible, I can't see that there is a route
available.

The soil stack is internal, in the external corner of the
kitchen, which has a solid floor, was recently refitted, and I
hope will see me out.

In any case, any route from boiler to soil pipe would also cross
the back door, so it is a complete non-starter.

If I were to consider for a moment pumping upwards, the bathroom
is above the kitchen, another expensive job I hope never to have
to disturb. Joists run perpendicular to the route, which is
covered by the rather large bath, as does the kitchen extractor
duct, completely blocking the route.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 10:16:35 +0100, ARWadsworth
wrote:



If the condenate cannot go into a soakaway then whey can you buy soakaway
kits for condensing boilers?


Agreed. But...

When investigating this issue a few years ago, I was advised to contact
the Environment Agency. I identified the geographic location, they looked
it up, and sent me a letter giving permission. I was given to understand
that this permission is required.

--
Rod

Chris J Dixon wrote:

Getting closer to deciding to add trace heating to my condensate
drain.

As I had freezing problems, last year I lagged the external
pipework with 25 mm thickness Armaflex. The extreme weather last
winter still caused me some problems, at the junction with the
downpipe.

The easiest solution would be to put a 'T' piece into the existing pipe,
not far from when it leaves the boiler. On the T off, put a iso valve,
easiest would be one with a handle, then put a hosepipe after that into
a bucket beneath the boiler.

Then when freezing weather is expected, you can connect the hosepipe,
site the bucket and open the valve. Your condensate will then run into
the bucket, and you wont have a frozen pipe.
Cost of parts £10ish, 30 minutes to fit it, 2 minutes to set it up
whenever needed. 2 minutes to change it back.

No ongoing cost of heating a waste pipe.

I cannot see any other cost effective measure to cure it.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Dean Heighington" wrote in message
...


Sorry Chris. Condensate drains are notorious for freezing up and yours
should defo not be going into a soakaway, along with the basin waste...
Not
100% on laws but am sure it's fineable offence. I can only suggest that
you
lag the pipe with foam lagging and then perhaps larger diameter around
that
and then cloth round that and deal with freezing on an as it happens basis
with a hairdryer. Perhaps this winter won't be as severe! Not what you
want
to hear I'm sure but you really should be looking at alternative route to
sewer drain.

While it may not be legal to drain the basin into a soakaway you can drain
the condensate into one.
If you are feeling "green" you can always use limestone gravel and watch it
dissolve as it neutralizes the acid in the condensate.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


While it may not be legal to drain the basin into a soakaway you can drain
the condensate into one.
If you are feeling "green" you can always use limestone gravel and watch it
dissolve as it neutralizes the acid in the condensate.

Thus releasing additional CO2 ... not very "green" !

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

A.Lee wrote:

The easiest solution would be to put a 'T' piece into the existing pipe,
not far from when it leaves the boiler. On the T off, put a iso valve,
easiest would be one with a handle, then put a hosepipe after that into
a bucket beneath the boiler.

Then when freezing weather is expected, you can connect the hosepipe,
site the bucket and open the valve. Your condensate will then run into
the bucket, and you wont have a frozen pipe.
Cost of parts £10ish, 30 minutes to fit it, 2 minutes to set it up
whenever needed. 2 minutes to change it back.

No ongoing cost of heating a waste pipe.

I cannot see any other cost effective measure to cure it.
Alan.

Yes I could only see this way as a cheap solution too. Not convenient but
if expense and site conditions prevent another solution then this is the
path of least resistance

Also, some councils may permit condensate drains to a soak away but do any
allow basin waste into one as this situation has?

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com