I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

In article ,
BodgeIt wrote:
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

at a guess: 'a good profile' means having happy customers.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:30:40 +0100
BodgeIt wrote:

I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

Well I went with Everest in 2006. They were recommended by a friend
and I was impressed with the job they had done on her house.

The units that were fitted are good, well made and attractive.
However, the quality of ancillaries, such as door handles, leaves a
lot to be desired. Yes, I have a lifetime guarantee, but if I have to
keep calling them to come fit new handles because the plating keeps
pitting, then I am never a happy camper!

Then we have the installation. Absolute crap. I have had them back
several times to replace mastic, and they failed to put any foam round
the units, so a gale can be felt round them. In the end I am doing
this work myself, as I decorate each room.

I am currently in the market for a new conservatory, the Everest
salesman thinks he is going to get to quote: think again chum!

You might "fit the best", but the quality is in the fitting.
These days almost anyone can make UPVC windows and DG units, but in the
end it's not the company that counts, it's the fitter.

R.

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:30:40 +0100
BodgeIt wrote:

I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

Well I went with Everest in 2006. They were recommended by a friend
and I was impressed with the job they had done on her house.

The units that were fitted are good, well made and attractive.
However, the quality of ancillaries, such as door handles, leaves a
lot to be desired. Yes, I have a lifetime guarantee, but if I have to
keep calling them to come fit new handles because the plating keeps
pitting, then I am never a happy camper!

Then we have the installation. Absolute crap. I have had them back
several times to replace mastic, and they failed to put any foam round
the units, so a gale can be felt round them. In the end I am doing
this work myself, as I decorate each room.

I am currently in the market for a new conservatory, the Everest
salesman thinks he is going to get to quote: think again chum!

You might "fit the best", but the quality is in the fitting.
These days almost anyone can make UPVC windows and DG units, but in the
end it's not the company that counts, it's the fitter.


Concur with this.
Local companies who do their own fitting need to do a good job to get
recommendations and stay in business.
National companies who sub-contract out the fitting do not tend to have a
motivated and dedicated work force of fitters.
Neighbour two doors down went with (I think) Everest and the surveyor was
spot on but the fitting was crap.
I suspect the original fitting is done on piece work rates and the
subsequent making good done by somone else.
They have been back several times.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"BodgeIt" wrote in message
news
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

Don't use Zenith. The locks and window mechanism were crap and once they
have got your address and/or phone you will be constantly bothered by them -
even threatening the salesman with violence did not stop them!
A chap who was a site labourer got a job with Anglian with no training.

Robbie

On 24/08/2011 10:43, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:

In article ,
BodgeIt wrote:
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

at a guess: 'a good profile' means having happy customers.

No, this is wrong.

I wouldn't bother with the nationals, they quote high and then offer
increasing discounts so you never know where you are. We got quotes from
local companies which by and large, having quoted, wait for *you* to
call *them*.

The profile is the shape of the window frame. When we discovered 18
months ago that we'd need, basically, to replace all the windows, SWMBO
wanted uPVC because you don't need to paint it. I didn't like that at
first because most DG that you look at is ugly - it looks like DG.

But we did some research and found something that looks better. Here are
some examples. If you look he

http://www.whs-halo.co.uk/

you'll see they show four profiles down the left hand side. We ended up
with something like the Rustique. That looks much more like a
traditional wooden window. Just ask your quoting company what profiles
they can supply. Check into equal sightlines too if looks are important
to you.

But it's not all about looks. You should also ask about locking
mechanisms (how many locking points), whether they can add security
clasps on the hinge side, types of handle, how strong the profile is,
where the sealing rubber strips are, whether internally or externally
glazed (you want internal).

Does anyone still do externally glazed?

What rating do you want? Argon-filled? Air-filled? A-rated or not? Type
of glass used - reflective coating or not?

Also, DG windows open in an odd way so its easy to clean both sides of
the glass from inside the house. But, upstairs they are bound by law to
use a different hinging system so the window can open more like a trad
window, to give you maximum room to get out in case of an emergency. We
had that type fitted downstairs too. Also check they know the regs about
toughened glass - where it needs fitting and where it's not needed.

I've not looked into it, but I'm pretty sure that the regs only normally
required one window to be the "escape" type and the rest could be
top-openers if you wanted. That's what we've got, but the previous
owners had them put in.

SteveW

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:30:40 +0100, BodgeIt wrote:

... I was thinking of getting a quote from one of the nationals as well.
Should I bother? If not why? And if so who should I try, Anglian,
Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

My personal experience of Anglian has been summed up by others
comments about the nationals. Sub contracted installers, rush the
job, don't do it well, make a heck of mess, seperate teams of trouble
shooters going around fixing things (wouldn't need that if they did
the job properly in the first place), pay over the odds. In the case
of Anglian the local office is run as a franchise and head office
really do not want to know if you have a problem (which you will)
they will only refer you back to the franchise...

"Profile" is the shape of the extrusions that make up the frames.
Different ones have different looks.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 24/08/2011 09:30, BodgeIt wrote:
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

If you have time to spare, enjoy a good example of high pressure selling
and don't mind being pestered with phone calls even after you have had
the windows fitted by someone else then get one of the national
companies to come over.

Get the quotes from the local companies first though so that you have an
idea of what it should cost and you will know when the national
companies are just discounting artificially high prices.

I've been through this process twice and in my experience, the local
guys come out, measure the windows, discuss the various options and give
you a quote.

With the national companies a bloke will turn up in a big shiny BMW
wearing a shiny suit and bores you to death with marketing material and
attempts to baffle you with complex discounts, which all of course
expire TODAY, then they move onto complex finance packages with cash
back bonuses after a certain number of months and/or interest free
periods. Those offers usually expire TODAY as well

With one company the bloke then asks to use the phone to phone the boss
(actually the speaking clock) who then has EVEN MORE discounts. Someone
told me that they did this and I was really struggling to keep a
straight face at this point.

Another trick is the "marketing budget" They offer a big discount if
you put a sign outside for a few months.

Even with all the complex discounts the national company were still more
than twice the price of the local company.

A few days later the national company phoned me again saying they had
some even better deals but that he couldn't give me a price on the
phone. I said they could write a letter but apparently the new prices
could only be revealed face to face. At this point I told them to go
away, which of course they didn't and several months after the local
company had installed the windows the national company were still
phoning me to inform me of new special offers.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:52:59 +0100, Gareth wrote:


With the national companies a bloke will turn up in a big shiny BMW
wearing a shiny suit

They also wear white socks with a suit.

and bores you to death with marketing material and
attempts to baffle you with complex discounts, which all of course
expire TODAY, then they move onto complex finance packages with cash
back bonuses after a certain number of months and/or interest free
periods. Those offers usually expire TODAY as well

Before summoning a national company lay in a supply of fully charged
cattle prods and Tasers, CS gas is also useful as nothing else will
get them out of the house. To describe them as rabid rats with a bad
case of piles is to be rude to rats. Some of them used to sell
Saniflows in past lives.

Their "own installers" are local guys who have to bid for 12 months
work in advance, lowest bid wins. It isn't a great surprise to find
it is only the installers no local company will touch with the
proverbial disinfected barge pole who bid for and get the work. The
quicker they do the job the more profit they make. Quality is an
abstract concept - it may written be on the side of the van but they
don't know what it means.

After sales service is in the hands of an old gent called Genghis
Khan who has one telephone and lives in a cupboard in south Calcutta.
He refers all complaints to his manager, who unfortunately died in
1705, to action.

On 24/08/2011 22:30, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:52:59 +0100, wrote:


With the national companies a bloke will turn up in a big shiny BMW
wearing a shiny suit

They also wear white socks with a suit.

and bores you to death with marketing material and
attempts to baffle you with complex discounts, which all of course
expire TODAY, then they move onto complex finance packages with cash
back bonuses after a certain number of months and/or interest free
periods. Those offers usually expire TODAY as well

Before summoning a national company lay in a supply of fully charged
cattle prods and Tasers, CS gas is also useful as nothing else will
get them out of the house.

Actually, I did find a way of getting rid of them, simply say: "I can't
sign today because I only own the lease - I need to get the permission
of the freeholder". It was true at the time but I think it's worth
remembering for the future - judging from the speed he left you would
have thought I had done as you suggested above.

In article , BodgeIt
writes
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

In addition to all the other replies, I would recommend that if you are
getting multiples in that you invite the least favourite first and so on
towards the most favoured. Learn from information gleaned from the early
quoters so that by the time you are talking to the few that you actually
want to do the work that you have all the information to hand, can talk
with confidence about the options available and can make an informed
choice.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 24/08/2011 22:46, fred wrote:
In article , BodgeIt
writes
I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

In addition to all the other replies, I would recommend that if you are
getting multiples in that you invite the least favourite first and so on
towards the most favoured. Learn from information gleaned from the early
quoters so that by the time you are talking to the few that you actually
want to do the work that you have all the information to hand, can talk
with confidence about the options available and can make an informed
choice.

There is some sense in that, but you can always get them to come out
again, go to their showroom or just phone up to discuss the various options.

BodgeIt wrote:

I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

Ask to see a sample window. And examine it thoroughly. The quality of
frames, locks and fittings vary a lot.

I fitted my own DG (3 windows to replace old iron single glazed, rest were
already ali DG in brown).

The windows I got were from a local firm that normally fitted, but also sold
materials only. Not the cheapest, but I was very pleased with how solid the
frames were - took quite some drilling, even with a sharp new HSS drill, to
make the frame fixing holes. The internal steel reinforcing was fairly
substantial.

The locks are positive, the seals are good and being finished in a faux-wood
pattern, they actually look pretty decent against the rest of the house.

OTOH I've also seen some real cack...

--
Tim Watts

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:45:49 +0100, Gareth wrote:

Before summoning a national company lay in a supply of fully charged
cattle prods and Tasers, CS gas is also useful as nothing else will
get them out of the house.

Actually, I did find a way of getting rid of them, simply say: "I can't
sign today because I only own the lease - I need to get the permission
of the freeholder". It was true at the time but I think it's worth
remembering for the future - judging from the speed he left you would
have thought I had done as you suggested above.

Recently a yoof knocked on the doorbell, waved an 'ID card' (proves SFA) at
me, mentioned a company which I can't recall and, straight out, asked me if
I owned the house or was a tenant! He got very upset when I told hom that
such information was none of his busines, so I told him to **** off.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

PeterC wrote:

Recently a yoof knocked on the doorbell, waved an 'ID card' (proves SFA) at
me, mentioned a company which I can't recall and, straight out, asked me if
I owned the house or was a tenant! He got very upset when I told hom that
such information was none of his busines, so I told him to **** off.

In an increasing number of cases, the correct, if misleading, answer to
that question is "Yes".

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:30:40 +0100, BodgeIt wrote:

I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs
windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local
independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one
of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who
should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all
said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So
what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks



Thanks for all your comments and advice. I wish I had the time for
some sport, but the thought of a roomful of white socked guys in
shiny cheap suits all queuing to use the phone to get the latest
discount offers who refuse to leave and then stalk me for months
afterwards is too much to bear! I'll stick with a couple of local
companies.

Cheers

On Aug 24, 10:45*pm, Gareth wrote:
On 24/08/2011 22:30, Peter Parry wrote:









On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:52:59 +0100, *wrote:

With the national companies a bloke will turn up in a big shiny BMW
wearing a shiny suit

They also wear white socks with a suit.

and bores you to death with marketing material and
attempts to baffle you with complex discounts, which all of course
expire TODAY, then they move onto complex finance packages with cash
back bonuses after a certain number of months and/or interest free
periods. *Those offers usually expire TODAY as well

Before summoning a national company lay in a supply of fully charged
cattle prods and Tasers, CS gas is also useful as nothing else will
get them out of the house.

Actually, I did find a way of getting rid of them, simply say: "I can't
sign today because I only own the lease - I need to get the permission
of the freeholder". *It was true at the time but I think it's worth
remembering for the future - judging from the speed he left you would
have thought I had done as you suggested above.

I found another way, I started the conversation as soon as he sat
down by saying
"I'd like you to give me a "QUOTE" for replacing these windows as I
have 3 other tenders coming....."
it was an Anglian Rep. was chatting away telling me how bad
the other supliers were and that everyones elses UVPC went yellow
after 5 years etc..
So I just kept repeating what he said while looking out of the corner
of my eye at the webcam
I'd set up to record, he noticed teh partially hidden cams LED and he
couldn;t get out the place quick enough as
soon as he clapped eyes on it.
A local DG company asked me what type of windows I had, they said they
didn;t need measuring and it would be around
£200 per window, but I didn;t have much confidence in them due to them
not thinking they needed to measure.
The Everest surveyer measured every window at 3 points, top, middle, &
bottom.

In the End I went with Everest who were expensive, but I was happy
with the work, they didn't leave any mess
and took away all the rubbish including the old windows, so no skip
required.