I am currently going through the nightmare of getting quotes for
double glazing and was hoping that someone may be able to help with a
few queries that I have..

I have had a number of companies quoting on the job now with price
ranges from £1650 to £4500.
Everest Windows £4500
Safestyle UK £1650
Local builder £1650
As you can see there is a massive difference in the prices, they all
claim that their windows are the best etc. Can anyone tell me the
essential things to make sure of when buying double glazing. I have
heard things such as making sure that the windows are steel
reinforced, made to measure rather than 'off the shelf' etc. etc. but
not sure what actually makes a difference. Are the windows off the
local builder likelly to be any less quality than the ones from the
large company?

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK or Everest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

smokeyd wrote:
I am currently going through the nightmare of getting quotes for
double glazing and was hoping that someone may be able to help with a
few queries that I have..

I have had a number of companies quoting on the job now with price
ranges from £1650 to £4500.
Everest Windows £4500
Safestyle UK £1650
Local builder £1650
As you can see there is a massive difference in the prices, they all
claim that their windows are the best etc. Can anyone tell me the
essential things to make sure of when buying double glazing. I have
heard things such as making sure that the windows are steel
reinforced, made to measure rather than 'off the shelf' etc. etc. but
not sure what actually makes a difference. Are the windows off the
local builder likelly to be any less quality than the ones from the
large company?

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK or Everest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?

Many thanks in advance for your help.


AIUI very few DG companies make their own windows. They order in the
frames and panels from a handful of large manufacturers, who in turn buy
in the pvc mouldings from an even smaller number of suppliers, so I
can't imagine the quality of the materials varies that much

This looks like it may help you.
http://www.double-glazing-web.co.uk/

Stuart Noble wrote:
smokeyd wrote:
I am currently going through the nightmare of getting quotes for
double glazing and was hoping that someone may be able to help with a
few queries that I have..

I have had a number of companies quoting on the job now with price
ranges from £1650 to £4500.
Everest Windows £4500
Safestyle UK £1650
Local builder £1650
As you can see there is a massive difference in the prices, they all
claim that their windows are the best etc. Can anyone tell me the
essential things to make sure of when buying double glazing. I have
heard things such as making sure that the windows are steel
reinforced, made to measure rather than 'off the shelf' etc. etc. but
not sure what actually makes a difference. Are the windows off the
local builder likelly to be any less quality than the ones from the
large company?

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK or Everest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?

Many thanks in advance for your help.


AIUI very few DG companies make their own windows. They order in the
frames and panels from a handful of large manufacturers, who in turn buy
in the pvc mouldings from an even smaller number of suppliers, so I
can't imagine the quality of the materials varies that much

I think that's only true about the big national DG companies...
certainly in my small town there are several independent firms who
manufacture windows, and if required, fit them. (And incidentally,
these are the sort of place I'd be looking at were I in the OP's shoes)

That said, I'm sure your comment about PVC moulding suppliers is true.

David

On 6 Sep, 13:51, Lobster wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
smokeyd wrote:
I am currently going through the nightmare of getting quotes for
double glazing and was hoping that someone may be able to help with a
few queries that I have..

I have had a number of companies quoting on the job now with price
ranges from £1650 to £4500.
Everest Windows £4500
Safestyle UK £1650
Local builder £1650
As you can see there is a massive difference in the prices, they all
claim that their windows are the best etc. Can anyone tell me the
essential things to make sure of when buying double glazing. I have
heard things such as making sure that the windows are steel
reinforced, made to measure rather than 'off the shelf' etc. etc. but
not sure what actually makes a difference. Are the windows off the
local builder likelly to be any less quality than the ones from the
large company?

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK or Everest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?

Many thanks in advance for your help.


Take a look at this website, some good info on the
http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/window_myspec.htm

I have recently moved into a house with wide range of double glazed
windows. The Everest windows are the best, but this is probably more
to do with the fact they are newer.

smokeyd wrote:
I am currently going through the nightmare of getting quotes for
double glazing and was hoping that someone may be able to help with a
few queries that I have..

I have had a number of companies quoting on the job now with price
ranges from £1650 to £4500.
Everest Windows £4500
Safestyle UK £1650
Local builder £1650
As you can see there is a massive difference in the prices, they all
claim that their windows are the best etc. Can anyone tell me the
essential things to make sure of when buying double glazing. I have
heard things such as making sure that the windows are steel
reinforced, made to measure rather than 'off the shelf' etc. etc. but
not sure what actually makes a difference. Are the windows off the
local builder likelly to be any less quality than the ones from the
large company?

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK or Everest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Have a look at Altrincham Glass. I had their Challenger series windows
in my front upper and lower bay, installed by Cheadle Glass (not the
best installers I have used - but not the worst either). I then had a
private builder install their Settanta series in my kitchen when I
refurbished. I like dealing with Altrincham Glass, you can buy the
units yourself and know what exactly you are getting, and the price is
very competetive. I have no quality issues with Altrincham Glass
products, only with installers.

Have a look for yourself.

Paul R

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say they
would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would get
back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September ringing
round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us when we
were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out the number of
their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time that
'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming next
day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped damage to
guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate and/
or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted deposit
back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install our
patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other words
date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Oh yes, one great line, I pointed out they had variously lost them,
damaged them, and more and was told that this made them a great
company as this proved they "didn't send out sub standard products"!!

If I could find a way, before 10th Nov ,to get out of this, i would!
However not so sure of legal position though I do feel Consumer law
should make 6 months unacceptable for delivery.

MOTTO: if you still want to order them, send a recorded delivery
letter to their Cuffley HQ, giving a 'time of essence' with final date
of installment 6 weeks before you actually want them!!

Worn out, fed up and would dearly like to put Ms "I-know-our-Rights"
in her place.

Janet

On 2007-11-03 00:32:49 +0000, said:

Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say they
would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would get
back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September ringing
round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us when we
were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out the number of
their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time that
'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming next
day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped damage to
guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate and/
or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted deposit
back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install our
patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other words
date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Oh yes, one great line, I pointed out they had variously lost them,
damaged them, and more and was told that this made them a great
company as this proved they "didn't send out sub standard products"!!

If I could find a way, before 10th Nov ,to get out of this, i would!
However not so sure of legal position though I do feel Consumer law
should make 6 months unacceptable for delivery.

MOTTO: if you still want to order them, send a recorded delivery
letter to their Cuffley HQ, giving a 'time of essence' with final date
of installment 6 weeks before you actually want them!!

Worn out, fed up and would dearly like to put Ms "I-know-our-Rights"
in her place.

Janet

Based on the track record so far, I think that they will screw up and
not complete the work totally and perfectly before the 10th November.


A few suggestions:

- I'm sure you're already keeping a log. I'd recommend keeping a
digital camera available to photograph any damage to the products or to
your property, collateral or not.

- Don't accept anything other than an absolutely pristine outcome.
Don't sign off the work to suit them.

- Be prepared that you will have to fight for one.

- Be a squeaky wheel. Keep them on a short leash with time measured
in days, not weeks.

- Withhold the remainder of the payment until after the work is
complete and your are totally satisfied. This is key. Installation
teams and regional managers etc. are measured on their completing work
to get outstanding monies paid.

- Let them threaten legal action. Don't be intimidated by it.

- At the point that they are demanding payment, as long as any
outstanding issues amount to a value of less than £5k, make them a
payment such that there is £4995 remaining. This is a switch point
between a small claims action and main court. This won't go unnoticed
by their legal advisors.

- Write a lengthy letter to their solicitors pointing out all the
issues and the history of what happened. Make counter claims for the
tiniest defect. Make sure that it's very detailed and runs to many
pages. This will increase their legal costs because it will all have
to be read and reviewed. The clock for that runs at £200/hr plus.
Let the exercise cost them as much as you can.

- Don't bother trying to claim for time off work or anything like that
unless you are self employed or otherwise demonstrably billing your
time. The courts won't award compensation for ordinarily employed
people.

- If the letters start talking about offering you some kind of
discount or something in kind with the words "Without Prejudice", you
have the clue that it has become a commercial negotiation.

- Another trick is to send thm a small payment with the letters
periodically, making the comment that it is an offer in good faith.
Then if they have started to make court applications, they will have to
change them because the amount outstanding will have changed. Of
course that is all part of the negotiation.

- £2 spent on the Companies House web site will get you the names and
addresses of all the directors. Send copies of all the correspondence
to them at their home addresses. No need for Recorded Delivery for
these. Put their names on the cc. list of all letters.

- For good measure, see if you can find the name of Ms "I know-our
rights", her supervisor and so on up to the director. Make sure that
they receive copies of all the correspondence.

Above all, Nil Illegitimis Carborundum. Don't let the *******s grind
you down.

In article , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-11-03 00:32:49 +0000, said:


Based on the track record so far, I think that they will screw up and
not complete the work totally and perfectly before the 10th November.

The mystery is why they have opted for a Saturday? All other dates that
we have been given have been weekdays, though saying that, none have
them have been fulfilled up till now

A few suggestions:

- I'm sure you're already keeping a log. I'd recommend keeping a
digital camera available to photograph any damage to the products or to
your property, collateral or not.

A brilliant idea Andy and one that I have now started. I have
photographed the current doors and the surrounding brickwork etc just
for starters so that I can compare the before and after.


- Don't accept anything other than an absolutely pristine outcome.
Don't sign off the work to suit them.

- Be prepared that you will have to fight for one.

- Be a squeaky wheel. Keep them on a short leash with time measured
in days, not weeks.

I will also consult a "contractual law" specialist/solicitor on Monday.
I was considering parking my car in the drive (behind their van), until
they have finished but I expect, though it will make us feel better, it
would be deemed illegal in some way or other


- Withhold the remainder of the payment until after the work is
complete and your are totally satisfied. This is key. Installation
teams and regional managers etc. are measured on their completing work
to get outstanding monies paid.

- Let them threaten legal action. Don't be intimidated by it.

Unfortunately I am intimidated by it! Silly really, logically I know you
are right but formal threatening letters ARE intimidating and we have
heard awful stories from people who have been placed on bad debt list
due to legal fights such as this. (This is no doubt what Everest are
hoping.)
However your advice and list of things we can do has been really helpful
and does strengthen my resolve to not just cave in.



- At the point that they are demanding payment, as long as any
outstanding issues amount to a value of less than £5k, make them a
payment such that there is £4995 remaining. This is a switch point
between a small claims action and main court. This won't go unnoticed
by their legal advisors.

Well the outstanding amount is 3,000 anyway as it's only a 4-paned patio
door.


- Write a lengthy letter to their solicitors pointing out all the
issues and the history of what happened.

Yes I can do that ! Though how do you find their solicitors?



- For good measure, see if you can find the name of Ms "I know-our
rights", her supervisor and so on up to the director. Make sure that
they receive copies of all the correspondence.

I've got hers now, if anyone else needs to know, (it's 'apparently' Ms
Lorna Lobo "Customer Service supervisor, Heathrow Branch) I also have a
phone number if anyone needs it. I have also now got the directors'
names from Company House and your suggestions have been really helpful
Andy. Maybe there should be a Group FAQ based on your suggestions giving
an overview to sorting out DIY problems such as this.

Thanks again.

Janet

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 2007-11-04 12:35:03 +0000, Janet Tweedy said:

In article , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-11-03 00:32:49 +0000, said:


Based on the track record so far, I think that they will screw up and
not complete the work totally and perfectly before the 10th November.

The mystery is why they have opted for a Saturday? All other dates that
we have been given have been weekdays, though saying that, none have
them have been fulfilled up till now

I don't think they have. They are just counting the days. This is an
indicator of stupidity.




A few suggestions:

- I'm sure you're already keeping a log. I'd recommend keeping a
digital camera available to photograph any damage to the products or to
your property, collateral or not.

A brilliant idea Andy and one that I have now started. I have
photographed the current doors and the surrounding brickwork etc just
for starters so that I can compare the before and after.


- Don't accept anything other than an absolutely pristine outcome.
Don't sign off the work to suit them.

- Be prepared that you will have to fight for one.

- Be a squeaky wheel. Keep them on a short leash with time measured
in days, not weeks.

I will also consult a "contractual law" specialist/solicitor on Monday.
I was considering parking my car in the drive (behind their van), until
they have finished but I expect, though it will make us feel better, it
would be deemed illegal in some way or other


- Withhold the remainder of the payment until after the work is
complete and your are totally satisfied. This is key. Installation
teams and regional managers etc. are measured on their completing work
to get outstanding monies paid.

- Let them threaten legal action. Don't be intimidated by it.

Unfortunately I am intimidated by it!

Yes I understand. However, they are bullying and there is no excuse
for that. If they were squeaky clean then that's one thing, but they
aren't. The school playground bully moves on to someone else if
you square up to them. Here you have a bully with thousands of
customers who is playing the numbers game. They are driven by
procedure and push back.


Silly really, logically I know you are right but formal threatening
letters ARE intimidating and we have heard awful stories from people
who have been placed on bad debt list due to legal fights such as this.
(This is no doubt what Everest are hoping.)

That's fluff. Nothing seriously happens unless they go all the way
through a court action and are awarded a judgment. The credit scoring
agencies like Equifax weight all these accordingly and a threatened
legal fight doesn't have the same impact as a result. For example,
let's say I forget to pay my Amex bill one month. Big deal, there's a
black mark until I pay it the next. Set against quite a large number
of accounts that are maintained in good order it means nothing.

If I didn't pay Amex for 6 months or all of my accounts were in bad
order, then it would be different. Bad credit scores happen if you
don't have very many accounts and one goes "bad" or if there is badness
across a wide range of accounts.

Unfortunately this can mean that someone with one bank account and one
credit deal can end up with a bad score. However, don't be put off by
this - the credit rating agencies know full well that the DG firms are
not Snow White.



However your advice and list of things we can do has been really
helpful and does strengthen my resolve to not just cave in.

This was partly why I suggested taking photos and making notes. If
you are dealing with facts then it's easier to detach yourself from the
moral blackmail of the supplier.

It's not to say that you should make yourself ill about it (it's not
worth it) , but they certainly do rely on people putting up with second
best.






- At the point that they are demanding payment, as long as any
outstanding issues amount to a value of less than £5k, make them a
payment such that there is £4995 remaining. This is a switch point
between a small claims action and main court. This won't go unnoticed
by their legal advisors.

Well the outstanding amount is 3,000 anyway as it's only a 4-paned patio door.

OK, so you can sit on that.



- Write a lengthy letter to their solicitors pointing out all the
issues and the history of what happened.

Yes I can do that ! Though how do you find their solicitors?

Easy. They will write to you. Alternatively they may push the issue
off to a debt collection agency. These are particularly nasty
lowlifes who will additionally threaten. They work through PO Boxes
and anonymous phone numbers. This is more intimidation. If it
happens, think of them as the accounts receivable department of the
supplier. They are paid on results - purely mechanical. Send them
the letters as well - that will go to the supplier.
At a certain point, the collection people will refer the matter off to
a solicitor working for them. In most of these cases, the standard
process is designed to deal with people who haven't paid and haven't
communicated. Either they get scared into paying or they get taken to
court and receive a judgment. It's a numbers game.

As soon as you raise a flag by writing to them with your list of
issues, it will be referred back to the supplier. The reason that the
supplier uses these people is to be able to apply some heat to non
paying customers who have no excuse.







- For good measure, see if you can find the name of Ms "I know-our
rights", her supervisor and so on up to the director. Make sure that
they receive copies of all the correspondence.

I've got hers now, if anyone else needs to know, (it's 'apparently' Ms
Lorna Lobo "Customer Service supervisor, Heathrow Branch) I also have a
phone number if anyone needs it. I have also now got the directors'
names from Company House and your suggestions have been really helpful
Andy.

That's quite funny. "Lobo" in many languages is the word for wolf.

I'm not suggesting that any or all of this will work, but I've provided
a reasonably comprehensive list.

At the least, if you document and photograph everything, that is a
detached thing that you can do without confrontation, and I can
completely understand when people prefer to avoid confrontation.

However, armed with the evidence, you have a powerful negotiating
position if you want to use it and it costs basically nothing.

Be careful if you get into professional advice. It can get very
expensive very quickly. On the other hand, if you spend £200 to
protect £3000, that may be the right thing to do.

Actually I did this once as a learning exercise and it was money well
spent. The amount at stake was £50k and professional reputation.
Afterwards I realised that a lot of it is that you are buying a lamp
post that is bigger than the other party's.

For the case that you have, really there are two aspects:

- Slow delivery and messing around

- If they don't produce a pristine job at the end.

You are a long way down the track on the first aspect and they may or
may not by incompetence, give you the opportunity to cancel.

Given that you can't or choose not to cancel, then the focus is on
making sure that they deliver perfection. After all, they have told
you that this is what they will do and have charged you accordingly.
it's very hard to say that and underdeliver, isn't it?



Maybe there should be a Group FAQ based on your suggestions giving an
overview to sorting out DIY problems such as this.

Thanks again.

Janet

wrote in message
ps.com...
Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say they
would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would get
back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September ringing
round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us when we
were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out the number of
their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time that
'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming next
day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped damage to
guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate and/
or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted deposit
back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install our
patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other words
date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Nonsense I'm afraid. There is no single legal time limit established in
contract law that governs whether a 'time is of the essence' notice is a
reasonable notice period for a given contract. It depends on the facts of
the case and a court would look at all of these in making its decision. In
fact common sense would tell you that cases differ in their complexity so a
notice period must also do so.

Your one week's notice would probably be construed as unreasonable but 21
days is a normal notice period in legal matters and after a delay of several
months would no doubt be considered more than fair for a contract which will
only take a day or so to fulfill when the parts are actually available.
Clearly if you gave one week's notice for works which would take more than
that to complete and haven't yet started it would be deemed impossible to
comply with.

However when you go off half-cocked without the requisite legal knowledge
and give an unfair notice period you shoot yourself in the foot. You're now
at the point where a second reasonable notice period would put you past
their 6 weeks anyway.

I'm sure you can either ask for further and better particulars in
uk.legal.moderated or Google for "time is of the essence."
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines

In article , Dave Baker
writes

However when you go off half-cocked without the requisite legal knowledge
and give an unfair notice period you shoot yourself in the foot. You're now
at the point where a second reasonable notice period would put you past
their 6 weeks anyway.

I'm sure you can either ask for further and better particulars in
uk.legal.moderated or Google for "time is of the essence."

Yes I concede that point Dave, though by then I had spent a LOT of time
and effort ringing any number I could find that was to do with Everest.
We were only able to get call centres.
However I would have thought that after 6 months the doors should have
been made and as it is only a 1 day's job, been installed.
Not forgetting that we had, up until last week, never heard from the
actual company since signing our order in May.
I guess from what you are saying, we don't have a case and we have to
let them walk all over us.
I just hope other people are warned about them.

Janet

--
Janet Tweedy

On 2007-11-03 12:03:33 +0000, Janet Tweedy said:

In article , Dave Baker writes

However when you go off half-cocked without the requisite legal knowledge
and give an unfair notice period you shoot yourself in the foot. You're now
at the point where a second reasonable notice period would put you past
their 6 weeks anyway.

I'm sure you can either ask for further and better particulars in
uk.legal.moderated or Google for "time is of the essence."

Yes I concede that point Dave, though by then I had spent a LOT of time
and effort ringing any number I could find that was to do with Everest.
We were only able to get call centres.
However I would have thought that after 6 months the doors should have
been made and as it is only a 1 day's job, been installed.
Not forgetting that we had, up until last week, never heard from the
actual company since signing our order in May.
I guess from what you are saying, we don't have a case and we have to
let them walk all over us.
I just hope other people are warned about them.

Janet

On the contrary, Janet. You have a lot of options....

Janet Tweedy wrote:
In article , Dave Baker
writes

However when you go off half-cocked without the requisite legal knowledge
and give an unfair notice period you shoot yourself in the foot.
You're now
at the point where a second reasonable notice period would put you past
their 6 weeks anyway.

I'm sure you can either ask for further and better particulars in
uk.legal.moderated or Google for "time is of the essence."

Yes I concede that point Dave, though by then I had spent a LOT of time
and effort ringing any number I could find that was to do with Everest.
We were only able to get call centres.
However I would have thought that after 6 months the doors should have
been made and as it is only a 1 day's job, been installed.
Not forgetting that we had, up until last week, never heard from the
actual company since signing our order in May.
I guess from what you are saying, we don't have a case and we have to
let them walk all over us.
I just hope other people are warned about them.

Janet


Seriously, take Andy's advice.

wrote:
Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say they
would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would get
back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September ringing
round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us when we
were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out the number of
their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time that
'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming next
day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped damage to
guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate and/
or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted deposit
back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install our
patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other words
date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Oh yes, one great line, I pointed out they had variously lost them,
damaged them, and more and was told that this made them a great
company as this proved they "didn't send out sub standard products"!!

If I could find a way, before 10th Nov ,to get out of this, i would!
However not so sure of legal position though I do feel Consumer law
should make 6 months unacceptable for delivery.

MOTTO: if you still want to order them, send a recorded delivery
letter to their Cuffley HQ, giving a 'time of essence' with final date
of installment 6 weeks before you actually want them!!

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.

I also used them later to install a secure uPVC front door to a new
build house with no problem. I used a local double glazing firm to
replace our rear door with no problem, for the same reason.

Recently, we decided to replace both our guttering, bording and windows
with plastic to avoid the ladders in our later years.

Used Zenith/ StayBrite. They came on the right day, riped out windows
without checking the sizes of the new windows and lo and behold one had
been manufactured a brick course too tall. What did they do? Ripe out a
course below the window to temporarily replace the original! The quality
of the brickwork on the house is a particular feature. Me happy, I think
not!

I'm still awaiting a date for the replacement window after 10 weeks.
Fortunately, we do have enough spare bricks from the original build to
replace those destroyed. I just hope that the mortar merges.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:49:05 GMT, "clot" wrote:

wrote:
Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say they
would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would get
back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September ringing
round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us when we
were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out the number of
their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time that
'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming next
day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped damage to
guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate and/
or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted deposit
back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install our
patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other words
date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Oh yes, one great line, I pointed out they had variously lost them,
damaged them, and more and was told that this made them a great
company as this proved they "didn't send out sub standard products"!!

If I could find a way, before 10th Nov ,to get out of this, i would!
However not so sure of legal position though I do feel Consumer law
should make 6 months unacceptable for delivery.

MOTTO: if you still want to order them, send a recorded delivery
letter to their Cuffley HQ, giving a 'time of essence' with final date
of installment 6 weeks before you actually want them!!

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.

I also used them later to install a secure uPVC front door to a new
build house with no problem. I used a local double glazing firm to
replace our rear door with no problem, for the same reason.

Recently, we decided to replace both our guttering, bording and windows
with plastic to avoid the ladders in our later years.

Used Zenith/ StayBrite. They came on the right day, riped out windows
without checking the sizes of the new windows and lo and behold one had
been manufactured a brick course too tall. What did they do? Ripe out a
course below the window to temporarily replace the original! The quality
of the brickwork on the house is a particular feature. Me happy, I think
not!

I'm still awaiting a date for the replacement window after 10 weeks.
Fortunately, we do have enough spare bricks from the original build to
replace those destroyed. I just hope that the mortar merges.

Hi. Just out of curiousity, what branch of Z?

Mike Barnard wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:49:05 GMT, "clot" wrote:

wrote:
Also has anyone had any dealings with Safestyle UK orEverest? Has
anyone had any good experiences with any fitters in the Manchester
area?



If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a
barge pole!
We ordered 4 patio doors to replace 4 older ones, on 18th May, told
to expect them within 6-9 weeks. Phone call at end of May to say
they would arrive next day, so spent night clearing away funriture
etc.
7.45am next day phone call said they'd lost 2 of the doors. Would
get back to us within 4 days to set up new appointment.
Heard no more until I spent an entire week at end of September
ringing round call centres trying to find someone who could tell us
when we were going to get doors fitted. (you don't ever find out
the number of their actual offices)
Told to 'get more logs in' if it was cold and promised each time
that 'someone' would get back to us.
By 10th Oct, patience waning, sent Rec Del. letter to Cuffley giving
'time of essence' and final acceptable date to be 18th October or
contract ceased.
17th october rung by employee/fitter who said he would be coming
next day, but oh dear, doors he had found, had now delevoped
damage to guide rails. Would get back to us....
22nd october sent letter regarding their inability to communicate
and/ or install doors, as failing to fulfil contract thus wanted
deposit back. Now 6 months since order.
1st November phoned by an extrenemely arrogant and patronising
employee who claimed that Everest have legally 6 weeks to install
our patio doors FROM DATE STATED IN "TIME OF ESSENCE" (In other
words date your patience runs out )

She informed us that, if we don't allow access THEY will sue me for
balance of monies!! They will come, she said, 5 weeks 5 days after
final demanded date and still be wtihin law. No apology, no excuses.

Oh yes, one great line, I pointed out they had variously lost them,
damaged them, and more and was told that this made them a great
company as this proved they "didn't send out sub standard
products"!!

If I could find a way, before 10th Nov ,to get out of this, i would!
However not so sure of legal position though I do feel Consumer law
should make 6 months unacceptable for delivery.

MOTTO: if you still want to order them, send a recorded delivery
letter to their Cuffley HQ, giving a 'time of essence' with final
date of installment 6 weeks before you actually want them!!

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.

I also used them later to install a secure uPVC front door to a new
build house with no problem. I used a local double glazing firm to
replace our rear door with no problem, for the same reason.

Recently, we decided to replace both our guttering, bording and
windows with plastic to avoid the ladders in our later years.

Used Zenith/ StayBrite. They came on the right day, riped out windows
without checking the sizes of the new windows and lo and behold one
had been manufactured a brick course too tall. What did they do?
Ripe out a course below the window to temporarily replace the
original! The quality of the brickwork on the house is a particular
feature. Me happy, I think not!

I'm still awaiting a date for the replacement window after 10 weeks.
Fortunately, we do have enough spare bricks from the original build
to replace those destroyed. I just hope that the mortar merges.

Hi. Just out of curiousity, what branch of Z?

Not sure. We've had calls from offices in Nottingham, Derby and
Leicester!

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:49:05 GMT, "clot" wrote:

Oops, pressed "post" too soon.

If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a barge
pole!

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.

Used Zenith/ StayBrite. They came on the right day, riped out windows
without checking the sizes of the new windows and lo and behold one had
been manufactured a brick course too tall. What did they do? Ripe out a
course below the window to temporarily replace the original!

If it came out, why would it need bricks removed to make it go back
in? Me non comprende!

The quality
of the brickwork on the house is a particular feature. Me happy, I think
not!

What branch, and what's the quality of the rest of the stuff gone in
so far? Apart from the one issue of the wrong size and bricks,
(important though it is) what was the quality of the rest of the
installation?

In message , Mike Barnard
writes

Me non comprende!

Isn't that a *******isation of You don't understand me?

Or perhaps, no le comprendo.

--
Si

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 13:22:20 +0000, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Barnard
writes

Me non comprende!

Isn't that a *******isation of You don't understand me?

Or perhaps, no le comprendo.

Me, a *******? Sir, I am UTTERLY a ******* when I have to be, so a
little practice now and then is allowed, no?

:-)

Mike Barnard wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:49:05 GMT, "clot" wrote:

Oops, pressed "post" too soon.

If i knew in May what I know now I wouldn't touch Everest with a
barge pole!

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.

Used Zenith/ StayBrite. They came on the right day, riped out windows
without checking the sizes of the new windows and lo and behold one
had been manufactured a brick course too tall. What did they do?
Ripe out a course below the window to temporarily replace the
original!

If it came out, why would it need bricks removed to make it go back
in? Me non comprende!

I expressed myself poorly. What I meant was that the original wooden
frame had been cut up in its removal so they were left with a large
hole - their solution was to install the overtall new window by removing
a course of bricks below the existing window. Hence, at present we have
an incomplete job, whilst manufacturing a replacement window.

The quality
of the brickwork on the house is a particular feature. Me happy, I
think not!

What branch, and what's the quality of the rest of the stuff gone in
so far? Apart from the one issue of the wrong size and bricks,
(important though it is) what was the quality of the rest of the
installation?

I'm reasonably happy with the rest of the work to date. There is a
snagging list though. To be fair to the guys, they worked damned hard in
dreadful weather conditions. One day, there were three of them all on
the windows. The weather started out wet and drizzly but got gradually
worse during the day. Luckily no wind so we didn't get water into the
house. Initially they started out dressed in normal overalls but by the
end of the day, they looked as if they were helping Noah out to get the
last few animals on the Ark. They looked like fishermen dressed for the
most foul weather in the North Atlantic!

The snagging list includes not putting little plastic covers over the
screwheads to the handles of the opening lights on our bay window - I
failed to notice this as well at the time and I'm not critical of their
failure to notice it. Around the patio door, they failed to make good
some mortar which came out as they removed the original aluminium d/g
units - they were fixed into wooden wedges between the bricks, (I expect
this to be addressed when mortar is prepared for replacing the course of
bricks). One opening light is not screwed in properly and needs
adjusting. On several of the opening lights, when opening or closing the
key in the lock just clips the fixed frame.

There was little damage to make good to the interior after they
finished - apart from one window cill that had been split, (I chose to
retain the wooden cills by preference). They were extremely good with
dust sheets. I was disappointed that they wrenched out one of two
hanging basket brackets off the wall damaging it and the face of the
brickwork, (made good later without a comment from me to persuade them
to do it - I know it's there but to be honest I doubt anyone else does -
like where you didn't quite get some decorating to your satisfaction and
it always catches your eye!).

The gap between the windows and the brickwork has been foam filled but
there is no silicone sealant on the outside. Everest also did not do
this when we had our front door replaced many moons ago, though a local
d/g company did that when doing our back door. I shall be chasing this
aspect. I am concerned that water could get between the frame and the
brickwork.

Overall, perhaps 7/10, but the proof of the pudding will only be
revealed with time!

Your interest? Are you awaiting an installation from Zenith?

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:00:33 GMT, "clot" wrote:

Mike Barnard wrote:
If it came out, why would it need bricks removed to make it go back
in? Me non comprende!

I expressed myself poorly. What I meant was that the original wooden
frame had been cut up in its removal so they were left with a large
hole - their solution was to install the overtall new window by removing
a course of bricks below the existing window. Hence, at present we have
an incomplete job, whilst manufacturing a replacement window.

Aha.

The quality
of the brickwork on the house is a particular feature. Me happy, I
think not!

What branch, and what's the quality of the rest of the stuff gone in
so far? Apart from the one issue of the wrong size and bricks,
(important though it is) what was the quality of the rest of the
installation?

I'm reasonably happy with the rest of the work to date. There is a
snagging list though. To be fair to the guys, they worked damned hard in
dreadful weather conditions. One day, there were three of them all on
the windows. The weather started out wet and drizzly but got gradually
worse during the day. Luckily no wind so we didn't get water into the
house. Initially they started out dressed in normal overalls but by the
end of the day, they looked as if they were helping Noah out to get the
last few animals on the Ark. They looked like fishermen dressed for the
most foul weather in the North Atlantic!

The snagging list includes not putting little plastic covers over the
screwheads to the handles of the opening lights on our bay window - I
failed to notice this as well at the time and I'm not critical of their
failure to notice it. Around the patio door, they failed to make good
some mortar which came out as they removed the original aluminium d/g
units - they were fixed into wooden wedges between the bricks, (I expect
this to be addressed when mortar is prepared for replacing the course of
bricks). One opening light is not screwed in properly and needs
adjusting. On several of the opening lights, when opening or closing the
key in the lock just clips the fixed frame.

There was little damage to make good to the interior after they
finished - apart from one window cill that had been split, (I chose to
retain the wooden cills by preference). They were extremely good with
dust sheets. I was disappointed that they wrenched out one of two
hanging basket brackets off the wall damaging it and the face of the
brickwork, (made good later without a comment from me to persuade them
to do it - I know it's there but to be honest I doubt anyone else does -
like where you didn't quite get some decorating to your satisfaction and
it always catches your eye!).

The gap between the windows and the brickwork has been foam filled but
there is no silicone sealant on the outside. Everest also did not do
this when we had our front door replaced many moons ago, though a local
d/g company did that when doing our back door. I shall be chasing this
aspect. I am concerned that water could get between the frame and the
brickwork.

Overall, perhaps 7/10, but the proof of the pudding will only be
revealed with time!

Your interest? Are you awaiting an installation from Zenith?


See my other thread. I have Anglian and they are corroding like hell.
I want something that will last and I'm looking at the alternatives.
Any input is welcome.

In article , clot
writes


I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I used Everest many moons ago for
secondary glazing in a new house with much satisfaction.


Yes, actually when we came here in 1979 we had the original patio doors
done by Everest and secondary double glazing installed in order to
protect the 'look' of the house as it's 1930. Bout 8 years ago we did
actually have a local company replace all our windows as the Crittal
metal ones were cracking the glass and becoming dangerous, though
aesthetically speaking it was not what we wanted. We were worried in
case anyone got hurt!
The patio doors we are now replacing as they are no longer easily opened
on their tracks (in fact twice in the sunnier weather I nearly lifted
one out of its tracks!) and the glass overall is quite cold to sit next
to.

What's been particularly annoying is that since may we have had no
curtains up, the furniture moved back and the stuff outside moved just
in anticipation of an imminent instillation by Everest!

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk