I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using crushed
limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call it around
here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the substrate will
be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons of the
said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before spreading
the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al

On 07/08/2011 18:37, AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using crushed
limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call it around
here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the substrate will
be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons of the
said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before spreading
the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al

You will find all the answers here;

http://www.pavingexpert.com/home.htm

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using crushed
limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call it around
here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the substrate will
be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons of the
said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before spreading
the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In fact
its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner. As
long as you don't put a hard surface over..

Experience is that this surface will compact and wear to a dusty
limestone track where the wheels go and grass everywhere else. It will
be pragmatic free draining and stable for vehicles.

If you want it to look pretty another 20 tonnes of gravel will sort it.

If you want to pave or concrete it, see www.pavingexpert.com.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using
crushed limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call it
around here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the
substrate will be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay and
limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons of
the said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before
compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In fact
its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner. As long
as you don't put a hard surface over..

4" is too thick above a membrane, it will let weeds get established.
Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not very
well) and may well require planning permission these days as they want to
control the speed of run off.


I would use 10 mm crushed stone of some nice colour.
I like Cotswold stone myself.
Being jagged it doesn't move around like the pea gravel so many use.
Its also coarse enough to stop weeds getting established.


Experience is that this surface will compact and wear to a dusty limestone
track where the wheels go and grass everywhere else. It will be pragmatic
free draining and stable for vehicles.

If you want it to look pretty another 20 tonnes of gravel will sort it.

If you want to pave or concrete it, see www.pavingexpert.com.

dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using
crushed limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call
it around here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the
substrate will be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay
and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons
of the said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before
compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In
fact its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner. As
long as you don't put a hard surface over..

4" is too thick above a membrane, it will let weeds get established.

weeds will establish on a bloody plastic sheet anyway, dennis.


Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not very
well) and may well require planning permission these days as they want
to control the speed of run off.

Utter and complete bull****.

MOT type 1 drains better than anything bar gravle, and gravel itslef
will not compact well or quickly.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using
crushed limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they call
it around here). Once the existing loose gravel has been removed, the
substrate will be very firm and solid, cosisting of compacted clay and
limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many tons of
the said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be before
compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In fact
its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner. As
long as you don't put a hard surface over..

4" is too thick above a membrane, it will let weeds get established.

weeds will establish on a bloody plastic sheet anyway, dennis.

Only if its wet.



Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not very
well) and may well require planning permission these days as they want to
control the speed of run off.

Utter and complete bull****.

MOT type 1 drains better than anything bar gravle, and gravel itslef will
not compact well or quickly.



Really?
Type 1 is full of fines and doesn't have much in the way of voids for water
to drain through.
I think you will find it gets churned up like mud when its wet and you drive
over it.
Didn't you say it did in an earlier post?

Crushed stone will compact quite well without the fines, gravel, as in
pebbles, will not settle, ever.

dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using
crushed limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they
call it around here). Once the existing loose gravel has been
removed, the substrate will be very firm and solid, cosisting of
compacted clay and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many
tons of the said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be
before compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In
fact its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner.
As long as you don't put a hard surface over..

4" is too thick above a membrane, it will let weeds get established.

weeds will establish on a bloody plastic sheet anyway, dennis.

Only if its wet.

oddly enough,. drives get rained on



Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not
very well) and may well require planning permission these days as
they want to control the speed of run off.

Utter and complete bull****.

MOT type 1 drains better than anything bar gravle, and gravel itslef
will not compact well or quickly.



Really?
Type 1 is full of fines and doesn't have much in the way of voids for
water to drain through.
I think you will find it gets churned up like mud when its wet and you
drive over it.
Didn't you say it did in an earlier post?

no. it doesn't, and i didn't.

And type I is not full of fines.

You have to spend a long time making them by crushing.

And unless they are very fine there will always be voids. Which is why
sandy soils drain and clay don't.


Crushed stone will compact quite well without the fines, gravel, as in
pebbles, will not settle, ever.

It does settle eventually.

So basically every single statement you have made is completely wrong.

Quelle surprise..

..

On 07/08/2011 20:45, dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
AL_n wrote:
I have a driveway that needs a new surface. I am planning on using
crushed limestone aggregate (inch-and-a-quarter to dust, as they
call it around here). Once the existing loose gravel has been
removed, the substrate will be very firm and solid, cosisting of
compacted clay and limestone dust.

The drive measures 25 mtrs x 3mtrs. Can anyone suggest how many
tons of the said aggregate I would need, and how thick it should be
before compacting?

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

Thank you,

Al
I'm on clay here and about 20 tonnes did a similar area.

It takes a long time and many heavy lorries to compact down.

Having done so, grass will grow, whether or not you membrane it. In
fact its likely to puncture any membrane anyway.

You should get about 4" depth which is enough IME for a 30 tonner.
As long as you don't put a hard surface over..

4" is too thick above a membrane, it will let weeds get established.

weeds will establish on a bloody plastic sheet anyway, dennis.

Only if its wet.



Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not
very well) and may well require planning permission these days as
they want to control the speed of run off.

Utter and complete bull****.

MOT type 1 drains better than anything bar gravle, and gravel itslef
will not compact well or quickly.



Really?
Type 1 is full of fines and doesn't have much in the way of voids for
water to drain through.
I think you will find it gets churned up like mud when its wet and you
drive over it.
Didn't you say it did in an earlier post?

Crushed stone will compact quite well without the fines, gravel, as in
pebbles, will not settle, ever.

IME, Type 1 drains but slowly (much depends on the soil under it). But
it can puddle in a heavy downpour. Crushed stone often tends to just
crush more under traffic and ends up with fines as well and hence tends
to act rather like type 1. Again the amount it crushes depends on what
sort of stone it is, but most sedimentary stuff wears down somewhat in a
few years. Granite may fare better.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Also it sounds like MOT type 1, this will not free drain (well not very
well) and may well require planning permission these days as they want to
control the speed of run off.

Utter and complete bull****.

MOT type 1 drains better than anything bar gravle, and gravel itslef will
not compact well or quickly.


Dennis is quite right. When an all-in-ballast (especially a material
conforming to the grading requirements of DTp specified Type 1) is properly
compacted, it is more or less impervious / impermeable. Provided, of
course, the material is neither too wet nor too dry when it is laid /
compacted.

Dennis is also correct about the planning permission

PeterL

AL_n wrote:


Some great info and advice here. That's a good point about how crushed
limestone trails into the house via footwear. I am sorry to hear you guys
say that weeds would still appear. The end of constant weeding was one of
my main justifications for the expense...

I wish I liked the look of tarmac, because it's cheap and solves a lot of
problems - but I don't. Brick paving would be way too expensive for my
pocket. I guess that covers all the inexpensive options, doesn't it?

Thanks to everyone for the very helpful input!

Al

What about patterned concrete? No idea of the costs though...

--
Tim Watts

(Steve Firth) wrote in
:

AL_n wrote:

I've heard of people putting down a membrane of some kind before
spreading the aggregate? Is this necessary, and why?

One possibility not mentioned here, that we use extensively at work,
is Geoweb. This isn't a membrane, it's a cellular rubber structure
that you peg down into the area to be turned into a road. Then you
fill up the honeycomb strusture with crushed stone or whatever else is
around. It's used widely in military engineering to build a road
quaickly and in civil engineering to stabilise steep banks.

http://www.greenfix.co.uk/

Invasive weeds are held at bay because their roots can't penetrate the
rubber walls, but weeds seeding onto the surface can still get
established. Spraying with Pathclear helps.


Thanks; I watched the video, and can see that suff may have uses in
reducing erosion of slopes, but am struggling to see how it would be useful
in creating a level driveway. (My driveway is almost exactly level, so
there is little chance of any aggregate drifting out of place.

Al

Tim Watts wrote in newstl4h8-1ov.ln1
@squidward.dionic.net:


What about patterned concrete? No idea of the costs though...


Yes, that may be an option, thanks. It would certainly solve the weed
problem.The tamping-down is just about within the scope of a one-man DIY-er
too (eliminates the hiring of a compacter or roller, as needed with
aggregate). I reckon my existing driveway (old compacted clay and limestone
chippings) is probably solid enough as a base to concrete directly onto,
once the humps have been skimmed off with a small bulldoser.

Al

AL_n wrote:
Tim Watts wrote in newstl4h8-1ov.ln1
@squidward.dionic.net:


What about patterned concrete? No idea of the costs though...


Yes, that may be an option, thanks. It would certainly solve the weed
problem.The tamping-down is just about within the scope of a one-man
DIY-er too (eliminates the hiring of a compacter or roller, as needed
with aggregate). I reckon my existing driveway (old compacted clay
and limestone chippings) is probably solid enough as a base to
concrete directly onto, once the humps have been skimmed off with a
small bulldoser.

We have patterned concrete. Not exactly lovely, but exceptionally durable.

"GB" wrote in
:

Why don't you let the weeds grow, for the more rural look?

Trouble is, weeds beget weeds, and I hate looking like the neighbourhood
slovenly dog, while everone else is prim and proper!

Or use roundup twice a year?

I might just try that stuff.

Al

"GB" wrote in
:

We have patterned concrete. Not exactly lovely, but exceptionally
durable.

When you say patterned, how was the pattern applied?

I also remember hearing about another method of making conrete look
attractive. I think it involved washing the surface away to expose bare
stones or somethng. I think perhaps special decorative stone was added for
this purpose, possibly after the readymix had been spread and tamped. Can
anyone point me to any instructions on this method?

Al

AL_n wrote:
"GB" wrote in
:

We have patterned concrete. Not exactly lovely, but exceptionally
durable.

When you say patterned, how was the pattern applied?

Decorative rubber stamp for want of a better word. Large sheet with the
pattern on it, about 2 metres square. You just have to hope it doesn't rain
whilst you're doing it.



I also remember hearing about another method of making conrete look
attractive. I think it involved washing the surface away to expose
bare stones or somethng. I think perhaps special decorative stone was
added for this purpose, possibly after the readymix had been spread
and tamped. Can anyone point me to any instructions on this method?

Al

--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

AL_n wrote:
"GB" wrote in
:

Why don't you let the weeds grow, for the more rural look?

Trouble is, weeds beget weeds, and I hate looking like the
neighbourhood slovenly dog, while everone else is prim and proper!

Or use roundup twice a year?

I might just try that stuff.

You can buy an awful lot of roundup for teh cost of redoing the drive.





Al

--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

"AL_n" wrote:
(Steve Firth) wrote
[snip]

Thanks; I watched the video, and can see that suff may have uses in
reducing erosion of slopes, but am struggling to see how it would be useful
in creating a level driveway. (My driveway is almost exactly level, so
there is little chance of any aggregate drifting out of place.

It's used for enormous lengths of level road. The cells prevent the
movement of aggregate and stop ruts from forming and also stop your vehicle
tracking shingle all over the place. I take it you've not had an
aggregate/gravel drive before?

In message , AL_n
writes
"GB" wrote in
:

We have patterned concrete. Not exactly lovely, but exceptionally
durable.

When you say patterned, how was the pattern applied?

Pattern Imprinted concrete

A concrete slab is aid, an dye/hardener is applied to the surface, then
a pattern applied using a mould to imprint the top of the concrete.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/pic01.htm


We have it here (done by a previous owner) on the drive (done to look
like setts) and one the patio (to look like stone slabs)

Actually, it isn't bad - certainly a lot better than plain slab, and
whilst if you look you can see that it isn't 'real' it;s ok. SWMBO
didn't realise the patio wasn't real stone at first.

I don't think it is realistically a DIY technique.


I also remember hearing about another method of making conrete look
attractive. I think it involved washing the surface away to expose bare
stones or somethng. I think perhaps special decorative stone was added for
this purpose, possibly after the readymix had been spread and tamped. Can
anyone point me to any instructions on this method?

Exposed Aggregate.

As you say, either tamped into the top or mixed in and then the washing
away the top surface.

As ever, Cormaic's Paving Expert site as the gen:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/concxag1.htm
--
Chris French

Steve Firth wrote in
-september
..org:

It's used for enormous lengths of level road. The cells prevent the
movement of aggregate and stop ruts from forming and also stop your
vehicle tracking shingle all over the place. I take it you've not had
an aggregate/gravel drive before?

I know that loose gravel spreads around freely, but graded aggregate
compacts down into an immovable crust (assuming the substrated is solid).

I suppose that if one only had the option of loose gravel then the Geoweb
stuff would help to keep it in place. But would that be a better bet that
compacted graded crushed rock aggregate? What is the advantage of the
gravel+geoweb option?

"AL_n" wrote in message
...
Steve Firth wrote in
-september
.org:

It's used for enormous lengths of level road. The cells prevent the
movement of aggregate and stop ruts from forming and also stop your
vehicle tracking shingle all over the place. I take it you've not had
an aggregate/gravel drive before?

I know that loose gravel spreads around freely, but graded aggregate
compacts down into an immovable crust (assuming the substrated is solid).

I suppose that if one only had the option of loose gravel then the Geoweb
stuff would help to keep it in place. But would that be a better bet that
compacted graded crushed rock aggregate? What is the advantage of the
gravel+geoweb option?

The highways dept can be funny about gravel at driveway entrances.
It prevents rapid accelaration into traffic.
My latest driveway into a busy highway, I was specifically required to have
a hard surface for that reason.
They have other rules about gates, splay geometry, visibity, field of view
etc.

I have paviour blocks which I DIYed. Not easy to do a good job. Lots of
cracks for the weeds to grow in.
The ants have swifty taken up residence and are undermining, little heaps of
sand everywhere.

The advantages are they can be taken up & relaid if they sink and for
replacement of services.
Also, lots of different colours and patterns and shapes.

All forms of aggregate surface are hard work to maintain and look like crap
after a few years.
With my previous road I had to get in 40 0r 50 tons of aggregate in every
year. I put in nearly 3000 tons of sub base in too.

For sub base, the cheapest form of aggregate you can get is rubble from the
recycle centre, topped off with crushed recycled rubble. The trouble with
it is that it is full of bits of crap. Metal, wood, plastic etc. You need
to pick it out by hand, esp. the metal as it can get in tyres. It needs to
be topped off with new stuff.
There is also industrial waste in some areas such as blast furnace slag, now
being "mined" for aggregate.
Aslo burned "red shale" waste from coal minng areas.

AL_n wrote:
"GB" wrote in
:

Why don't you let the weeds grow, for the more rural look?

Trouble is, weeds beget weeds, and I hate looking like the neighbourhood
slovenly dog, while everone else is prim and proper!

Or use roundup twice a year?

I might just try that stuff.

Al

Pathclear. Its more permanent.

Roundup only kills what's growing now. pathclear stops seed germinating.

Round here I can show you tarmac roads with grass growing on them, so
even tarmac is no solution.

chris French wrote in news:0
:

Exposed Aggregate.

As you say, either tamped into the top or mixed in and then the washing
away the top surface.

As ever, Cormaic's Paving Expert site as the gen:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/concxag1.htm

Excellent. Thank you!

Al

chris French wrote:


When you say patterned, how was the pattern applied?

Pattern Imprinted concrete

A concrete slab is aid, an dye/hardener is applied to the surface,
then a pattern applied using a mould to imprint the top of the
concrete.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/pic01.htm


We have it here (done by a previous owner) on the drive (done to look
like setts) and one the patio (to look like stone slabs)

Actually, it isn't bad - certainly a lot better than plain slab, and
whilst if you look you can see that it isn't 'real' it;s ok. SWMBO
didn't realise the patio wasn't real stone at first.

Ours has weathered quite nicely. It certainly does not look like stone, but
it doesn't shriek concrete either. It was old when we bought the house, and
we've been here 13 years. The dye surface has long since worn away, but it's
dirtied up nicely over the years and blended in. A chap wanted to come round
and steam clean it for us, but that's the last thing I'd do to it.




I don't think it is realistically a DIY technique.

If you had a 25m drive to practise on, you'd be quite good by the end. I
don't know whether you can hire the moulds. Buying one might be prohibitive.

The real problem is if it rains whilst the concrete is still setting. I
guess you might have to drill it all up again.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
AL_n wrote:
"GB" wrote in
:

Why don't you let the weeds grow, for the more rural look?

Trouble is, weeds beget weeds, and I hate looking like the
neighbourhood slovenly dog, while everone else is prim and proper!

Or use roundup twice a year?

I might just try that stuff.

Al

Pathclear. Its more permanent.

Roundup only kills what's growing now. pathclear stops seed
germinating.
Round here I can show you tarmac roads with grass growing on them, so
even tarmac is no solution.

Sodium Chlorate used to be the dog's dangly bits, but that's probably no
longer available. And, it can spread.


--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-09, GB wrote:

Sodium Chlorate used to be the dog's dangly bits, but that's probably no
longer available.

Correct.

Thought it was, but mixed with inhibitor so it wont bloody well go
'Bang' any more :-(

"GB" wrote in news:4e4199da$0$2527$da0feed9
@news.zen.co.uk:

Sodium Chlorate used to be the dog's dangly bits, but that's probably no
longer available.

I remember that stuff: a white crystalline powder, which I remember tasting
when I was a toddler (out of curiosity)! When I was a kid, there was a
rumour that you could make explosives from it.

Al

The Natural Philosopher wrote in news:j1sh2o$44l$6
@news.albasani.net:

Thought it was, but mixed with inhibitor so it wont bloody well go
'Bang' any more :-(

I never could get it to go bang when I was a kid. No-one seemed to know the
correct amount of sugar to add. ;-)