I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

Vet Tech wrote:
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?
sure. 240vAC relays are common enough.

"Vet Tech" wrote in message ...
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

I'm sure it is possible but can you explain more fully what you have now.
CCTV cameras do not generally record themselves there is a separate recording device.

Would simply powering the camera on when the PIR sees motion achieve what you want?
If so why can't you use the switched output of a mains PIR to power the camera's PSU?
(use a PIR that can switch an inductive load. Generally the kind that click)

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Vet Tech" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

You have mains.. use a 12v PSU.
You probably want 12V for the CCTV anyway.
Then you can use a 12V PIR, a 12V camera and no extra relay.
The 12V pir is probably cheaper than a mains relay in a proper box.


A diy option is to take the PIR apart, they nearly all have a relay in them
(probably 12V as it happens).. disconnect the mains input by removing the
appropriate track to the relay and you can switch your 12V . you need a fair
bit of clearance between the mains on the circuit board and 12V side to be
safe.


As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

On 29/07/2011 21:49, Vet Tech wrote:
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

If you wire the coil of a 240v relay in parallel with the lights, you
can switch what you like with it - subject to its current capacity. The
contacts are separate from the coil, so you can use them to switch 12v.
You will, of course, need a 12v supply for the *camera* but not for the
PIR. Not sure whether that's what you want!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 29/07/2011 22:08, Graham. wrote:
"Vet wrote in message ...
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

I'm sure it is possible but can you explain more fully what you have now.
CCTV cameras do not generally record themselves there is a separate recording device.

Would simply powering the camera on when the PIR sees motion achieve what you want?
If so why can't you use the switched output of a mains PIR to power the camera's PSU?
(use a PIR that can switch an inductive load. Generally the kind that click)

My existing cameras are all POE powered network units. The internal ones
are triggered by inbuilt PIRs or by motion in the cameras own adjustable
motion (optical) windows.

The problem is with one external camera which suffers from an excess
false motion triggers. This happens because there is a street light just
outside the property and adjacent to this is a large tree on the
pavement which overhangs the property.

The result is that whenever there is any wind there is movement in the
branches and hence difference in light due to shadows on the ground and
the building itself moving. Other false triggering is caused by car
headlights - especially when drivers do u-turns after they find they
took the wrong turn at the nearby traffic lights.

The cameras can be set to start recording if they receive a 12 volt
input trigger - presumably from an external PIR.

At present I have an external PIR that is run at 240v and this switches
on two halogen lights directly.

At present the one on the front is a Vivotek IP8332 and I am considering
a FD8134V with a PIR looking out across the front yard.

Powering the camera on just when needed is a big problem - in terms of
start up time. The cameras have their own memory cache and so are able
to store and later record ( to the server) activity that takes place up
to 10 seconds before the trigger happens.
The camera gets its power ( low voltage) over Cat5 network cable from a
POE switch.

VT

On 29/07/2011 22:16, dennis@home wrote:



As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

I guess I should have said that the PIRs are all external. Certainly all
of mine are running on 240 volts. They are made by Steinel - model IS 1.

VT

"Vet Tech" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 29/07/2011 22:08, Graham. wrote:
"Vet wrote in message
...
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

I'm sure it is possible but can you explain more fully what you have now.
CCTV cameras do not generally record themselves there is a separate
recording device.

Would simply powering the camera on when the PIR sees motion achieve what
you want?
If so why can't you use the switched output of a mains PIR to power the
camera's PSU?
(use a PIR that can switch an inductive load. Generally the kind that
click)

My existing cameras are all POE powered network units. The internal ones
are triggered by inbuilt PIRs or by motion in the cameras own adjustable
motion (optical) windows.

The problem is with one external camera which suffers from an excess false
motion triggers. This happens because there is a street light just outside
the property and adjacent to this is a large tree on the pavement which
overhangs the property.

The result is that whenever there is any wind there is movement in the
branches and hence difference in light due to shadows on the ground and
the building itself moving. Other false triggering is caused by car
headlights - especially when drivers do u-turns after they find they took
the wrong turn at the nearby traffic lights.

The cameras can be set to start recording if they receive a 12 volt input
trigger - presumably from an external PIR.

At present I have an external PIR that is run at 240v and this switches on
two halogen lights directly.

At present the one on the front is a Vivotek IP8332 and I am considering a
FD8134V with a PIR looking out across the front yard.

Powering the camera on just when needed is a big problem - in terms of
start up time. The cameras have their own memory cache and so are able
to store and later record ( to the server) activity that takes place up to
10 seconds before the trigger happens.
The camera gets its power ( low voltage) over Cat5 network cable from a
POE switch.

so do the IP cams need a "pulse" of 12v on the trigger input or aren't they
bothered? If the latter then could a suitable 240v 12v transformer be wired
into the lighting circuit so to trigger when the lights are triggered? (if
that's what you want ;))

Jim K

On 30/07/2011 09:24, Roger Mills wrote:


If you wire the coil of a 240v relay in parallel with the lights, you
can switch what you like with it - subject to its current capacity. The
contacts are separate from the coil, so you can use them to switch 12v.
You will, of course, need a 12v supply for the *camera* but not for the
PIR. Not sure whether that's what you want!


Roger,

Sounds good.

As I my electrical knowledge is fairly modest, is there some guidance
you might suggest regarding choice of relay eg something out of the
Farnell catalogue?

Thanks

VT

In article , Vet Tech
writes
On 30/07/2011 09:24, Roger Mills wrote:


If you wire the coil of a 240v relay in parallel with the lights, you
can switch what you like with it - subject to its current capacity. The
contacts are separate from the coil, so you can use them to switch 12v.
You will, of course, need a 12v supply for the *camera* but not for the
PIR. Not sure whether that's what you want!


Roger,

Sounds good.

As I my electrical knowledge is fairly modest, is there some guidance
you might suggest regarding choice of relay eg something out of the
Farnell catalogue?

As it's a signal (low current) feed to the recorder a relay with gold
plated contacts would be a good idea eg:

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03486 £5.29 + VAT

Intended for a plug-in base (this one screw terminals):

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03495 £4.49 + VAT

or solder or use mini spade connections but beware of risk from mains
connected spades falling/being pulled off. Insulate with heatshrink
sleeving.

Clip avail to hold relay on base (I think this is the right one):

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03497 £0.35 + VAT

If you order today before midnight you get free post for orders over a
tenner, follow instructions on main page of site, note that postage
appears on screen but is deducted after the event, before your card is
charged (crap but it works).

I'd suggest mounting the relay close to the mains wiring and run a low
voltage cable to the recorder over alarm/security cable. CPC have cheap
IP (outdoor) rated boxes if you need a separate housing.

This all assumes that the recorder records for all the time the 12V
control signal is applied and stops when it is removed. This wouldn't
work for a start pulse and stop pulse recorder (like a standard domestic
recorder).
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Vet Tech
writes
On 30/07/2011 09:24, Roger Mills wrote:


If you wire the coil of a 240v relay in parallel with the lights, you
can switch what you like with it - subject to its current capacity. The
contacts are separate from the coil, so you can use them to switch 12v.
You will, of course, need a 12v supply for the *camera* but not for the
PIR. Not sure whether that's what you want!


Roger,

Sounds good.

As I my electrical knowledge is fairly modest, is there some guidance
you might suggest regarding choice of relay eg something out of the
Farnell catalogue?

As it's a signal (low current) feed to the recorder a relay with gold
plated contacts would be a good idea eg:

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03486 £5.29 + VAT

Intended for a plug-in base (this one screw terminals):

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03495 £4.49 + VAT

or solder or use mini spade connections but beware of risk from mains
connected spades falling/being pulled off. Insulate with heatshrink
sleeving.

Clip avail to hold relay on base (I think this is the right one):

http://cpc.farnell.com/SW03497 £0.35 + VAT

If you order today before midnight you get free post for orders over a
tenner, follow instructions on main page of site, note that postage
appears on screen but is deducted after the event, before your card is
charged (crap but it works).

I'd suggest mounting the relay close to the mains wiring and run a low
voltage cable to the recorder over alarm/security cable. CPC have cheap IP
(outdoor) rated boxes if you need a separate housing.

This all assumes that the recorder records for all the time the 12V
control signal is applied and stops when it is removed. This wouldn't work
for a start pulse and stop pulse recorder (like a standard domestic
recorder).

hold on a mo, these are IP cameras aren;t they?
As i asked earlier couldn't you just wire a 240-12v transformer in with the
240v halogen PIR controlled lights and get the trigger from there when the
lights come one?
or am i missing something about these IP cams' "Digital In" thing (I admit
I have limited electronics knowledge too and the applicable section of the
Vivotek manual (with techy diagrams) makes little sense to me;)

cheers
Jim K

On 30/07/2011 12:41, Jim K wrote:
"Vet wrote in message
o.uk...
On 29/07/2011 22:08, Graham. wrote:
"Vet wrote in message
...
I am looking for a PIR sensor that will provide a 12 volt output to
trigger a CCTV camera to start recording and I dont want to use a PIR
that needs a 12 volt supply from batteries.

As far as I can see, most PIRs are 240 volt (in and out) and I want I
want to use an existing PIR that currently turns on a couple of
lights - hence the idea of using a relay between the PIR and the
camera.

Is such a thing possible?

I'm sure it is possible but can you explain more fully what you have now.
CCTV cameras do not generally record themselves there is a separate
recording device.

Would simply powering the camera on when the PIR sees motion achieve what
you want?
If so why can't you use the switched output of a mains PIR to power the
camera's PSU?
(use a PIR that can switch an inductive load. Generally the kind that
click)

My existing cameras are all POE powered network units. The internal ones
are triggered by inbuilt PIRs or by motion in the cameras own adjustable
motion (optical) windows.

The problem is with one external camera which suffers from an excess false
motion triggers. This happens because there is a street light just outside
the property and adjacent to this is a large tree on the pavement which
overhangs the property.

The result is that whenever there is any wind there is movement in the
branches and hence difference in light due to shadows on the ground and
the building itself moving. Other false triggering is caused by car
headlights - especially when drivers do u-turns after they find they took
the wrong turn at the nearby traffic lights.

The cameras can be set to start recording if they receive a 12 volt input
trigger - presumably from an external PIR.

At present I have an external PIR that is run at 240v and this switches on
two halogen lights directly.

At present the one on the front is a Vivotek IP8332 and I am considering a
FD8134V with a PIR looking out across the front yard.

Powering the camera on just when needed is a big problem - in terms of
start up time. The cameras have their own memory cache and so are able
to store and later record ( to the server) activity that takes place up to
10 seconds before the trigger happens.
The camera gets its power ( low voltage) over Cat5 network cable from a
POE switch.

so do the IP cams need a "pulse" of 12v on the trigger input or aren't they
bothered? If the latter then could a suitable 240v12v transformer be wired
into the lighting circuit so to trigger when the lights are triggered? (if
that's what you want ;))

Jim K


I believe that all they need is a pulse to trigger 30 seconds of
recording then they stop if there is ot another pulse.. So yes, I guess
a 24012v transformer would do it.

or am i missing something about these IP cams' "Digital In" thing (I admit
I have limited electronics knowledge too and the applicable section of the
Vivotek manual (with techy diagrams) makes little sense to me;)

cheers
Jim K

Now you mention it, I am not too clear on the "Digital In" either. I
just assumed that if the camera got a shot of 12v that that would
trigger it.
Shows the extent of my electronics knowledge


VT

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:38:57 +0100, Vet Tech wrote:


or am i missing something about these IP cams' "Digital In" thing (I admit
I have limited electronics knowledge too and the applicable section of the
Vivotek manual (with techy diagrams) makes little sense to me;)

cheers
Jim K

Now you mention it, I am not too clear on the "Digital In" either. I
just assumed that if the camera got a shot of 12v that that would
trigger it.
Shows the extent of my electronics knowledge

Page 5 of the user manual shows the input diagram.
http://www.vivotek.com/downloadfiles...8332manual.pdf

It shows an internal "pull-up" resistor to 12 volts.
Externally, all that is required is a contact closure to pull the DI
input down to the ground GND terminal.
You can test this with a piece of wire.
Simply use a relay with 240 volt AC coil connected to your PIR output
and the contacts as shown in the manual.

On 30/07/2011 18:20, Geo wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:38:57 +0100, Vet wrote:


or am i missing something about these IP cams' "Digital In" thing (I admit
I have limited electronics knowledge too and the applicable section of the
Vivotek manual (with techy diagrams) makes little sense to me;)

cheers
Jim K

Now you mention it, I am not too clear on the "Digital In" either. I
just assumed that if the camera got a shot of 12v that that would
trigger it.
Shows the extent of my electronics knowledge

Page 5 of the user manual shows the input diagram.
http://www.vivotek.com/downloadfiles...8332manual.pdf

It shows an internal "pull-up" resistor to 12 volts.
Externally, all that is required is a contact closure to pull the DI
input down to the ground GND terminal.
You can test this with a piece of wire.
Simply use a relay with 240 volt AC coil connected to your PIR output
and the contacts as shown in the manual.


Excellent. That looks like a neat solution.
With my limited electrical knowledge I will get the relay and (
carefully) experiment and test before I hook up the camera.

Many thanks for your help.

VT

Page 5 of the user manual shows the input diagram.
http://www.vivotek.com/downloadfiles...8332manual.pdf

It shows an internal "pull-up" resistor to 12 volts.
Externally, all that is required is a contact closure to pull the DI
input down to the ground GND terminal.
You can test this with a piece of wire.
Simply use a relay with 240 volt AC coil connected to your PIR output
and the contacts as shown in the manual.


Had a quick look at at RS Components ( where I have an account) web site
to try and select a suitable relay and got thoroughly mesmerised by the
wide selection.

Could I possibly impose upon you once more to make a recommendation as
to which one to use. I would prefer one where the wires are connected
and secured using a screw ie the same way as wires are connected at the
back of 13 amp sockets.

Many thanks

VT

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:57:29 +0100, Vet Tech wrote:


Had a quick look at at RS Components ( where I have an account) web site
to try and select a suitable relay and got thoroughly mesmerised by the
wide selection.

Could I possibly impose upon you once more to make a recommendation as
to which one to use. I would prefer one where the wires are connected
and secured using a screw ie the same way as wires are connected at the
back of 13 amp sockets.

Have a look at the Farnell site for the components that Fred selected
- they are Omron and will have Omron part numbers that should also be
stocked by RS.

Fred,

Thanks for helping out. Based on what Geo says below are you in a
position to home in on a final selection for the relay. I dont know the
relative merits of each so your asistance would be much appreciated.

Quote from Geo

""Page 5 of the user manual shows the input diagram.
http://www.vivotek.com/downloadfiles...8332manual.pdf

It shows an internal "pull-up" resistor to 12 volts.
Externally, all that is required is a contact closure to pull the DI
input down to the ground GND terminal.
You can test this with a piece of wire.
Simply use a relay with 240 volt AC coil connected to your PIR output
and the contacts as shown in the manual.""
UnQuote

Much obliged.

VT

In article , Vet Tech
writes
Fred,

Thanks for helping out. Based on what Geo says below are you in a
position to home in on a final selection for the relay. I dont know the
relative merits of each so your asistance would be much appreciated.

What makes you think I didn't make the perfect choice already ;-)

Seriously, the relay I pointed out is fine for the job, the gold
(flashed not plated unfortunately) contacts are just what you need for a
signal level application like this and are rare for a mains coil relay.

As pointed out by Geo, you will need to connect the common contact to
pin 4 signal ground and the normally open contact to pin 3 Digital
Input. You will also need to program the advanced settings of the
recording software to activate recording when the Digital Input is LOW.

The relay is 4 pole but no matter, just leave the other 3 disconnected
or use for some other purpose. Do not mix mains & low voltage on the
contacts side, the pins are too close together for safety. Safety
related points in my previous post still apply, ie insulation and
sleeving.

Shame you didn't the RS account earlier, as that is where I bought my
identical relay, code is 394-9116. I don't have RS codes for the holder
and clip as I soldered my connections but if you want them from RS then
search for them and I will check the codes if you post them but just
checking, RS appear to place links to them on the page for that relay to
save you looking. On this rare occasion RS appears to be cheaper for
those bits and as you have an account, post is should be free.

Watch out for secure routing of your PIR link cable as it will fail to
OFF if it is pulled down by a scrote. As an alternative you could wire
to the normally closed contact on the relay and program the recording to
record on active HIGH, this will fail to ON if the low voltage cable is
cut or pulled down.

HTH

Quote from Geo

""Page 5 of the user manual shows the input diagram.
http://www.vivotek.com/downloadfiles...8332manual.pdf

It shows an internal "pull-up" resistor to 12 volts.
Externally, all that is required is a contact closure to pull the DI
input down to the ground GND terminal.
You can test this with a piece of wire.
Simply use a relay with 240 volt AC coil connected to your PIR output
and the contacts as shown in the manual.""
UnQuote

Much obliged.

VT


--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

In article , Vet Tech
writes

I believe that all they need is a pulse to trigger 30 seconds of
recording then they stop if there is ot another pulse.. So yes, I guess
a 24012v transformer would do it.

I hope that is not the case as it will blow the whole deal, mains PIRs
for lighting will activate and stay on for minutes at a time, if your
recording software will come on for only 30s per activation, you are
stuffed. I'd suggest you look at the recording software again and see if
it can be set to record whenever the Digital Input is active.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********