It's not uncommon for installers or repairers to omit a fairly costly item
like inhibitor. Without any, a system will still last the warranty period.
And then provide more work for them or their trade rather earlier than if
it is used. A win win situation - for them.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not uncommon for installers or repairers to omit a fairly costly item
like inhibitor. Without any, a system will still last the warranty period.
And then provide more work for them or their trade rather earlier than if
it is used. A win win situation - for them.

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.
Ta
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Jul 9, 9:37 am, (A.Lee) wrote:

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.
Ta
Alan.

??
looks ok in GG (for as long as is visible....) ;))

Jim K

In article ,
A.Lee wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not uncommon for installers or repairers to omit a fairly costly
item like inhibitor. Without any, a system will still last the
warranty period. And then provide more work for them or their trade
rather earlier than if it is used. A win win situation - for them.

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read. Ta Alan.

I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to use
the one you have.

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/07/2011 09:47, Jim K wrote:
On Jul 9, 9:37 am, (A.Lee) wrote:

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.
Ta
Alan.

??
looks ok in GG (for as long as is visible....) ;))

Wouldn't want to change things in that software and lose those taglines.
There are a couple of posters around the UK newsgroups that don't have
optimal sending abilities for the rest of usenet.... and then there is
GG and *banter etc...

IMO Dave's client sending issues are very minor in comparision.

--
Adrian C

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article :
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not uncommon .....

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, ....

I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to use
the one you have.

It is compliant, your posts show as a new thread, with no attributions
showing.
Notice there is no 'Reference' line, which I think is the main problem,
as Newsreaders cannot tell what it is related to.

From:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1036.txt

2.2.5. References

This field lists the Message-ID's of any messages prompting the
submission of this message. It is required for all follow-up
messages, and forbidden when a new subject is raised....

...The purpose of the "References" header is to allow messages to be
grouped into conversations by the user interface program. This
allows conversations within a newsgroup to be kept together



See your full headers below:

Path:
mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-septembe
r.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 09:22:56 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 10
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: Y4lVOo3N2sO6iMyMpcYdZA.user.speranza.aioe.org
X-Complaints-To:
User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/4.39) NewsHound/v1.50-32
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2

It's not uncommon...
Snipped.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to use
the one you have.

It's not him, it's you. Your headers show no References: lines, which is
what enables threading, so any decent news client (and that doesn't
include gargle gropes) will think it's a new post. FWIW, Turnpike sees
it as a new post too.

From your post (the one Alan referred to):

Path: mx04.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-
september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 09:22:56 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 10
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: Y4lVOo3N2sO6iMyMpcYdZA.user.speranza.aioe.org
X-Complaints-To:
User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/4.39) NewsHound/v1.50-32
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

A.Lee wrote:
Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.

At least part of the problem is with your settings, Alan. This and all
the other threads where people have complained about a new thread being
created for every post have shown up perfectly threaded on all my
machines in Thunderbird 2.0.24 under XP,using News Individual Net's server.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:

A.Lee wrote:

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time

At least part of the problem is with your settings, Alan.

In this case Dave's reply doesn't look like a reply in any sense of the
word, no "" prefix on the subject and no "references:" header, it is
in fact a new message ... viewed here in TB3.1, but no reader would
thread it however it treated it.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)"
saying something like:

*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

They don't.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sanction

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (A.Lee) saying
something like:

It is compliant, your posts show as a new thread, with no attributions
showing.

Agent shows it as part of the thread, perfectly ok. Otoh, Agent does
have moments where it screws up things just like everything else.

On Sat, 9 Jul 2011 10:58:28 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how
to
use the one you have.

It's not him, it's you. Your headers show no References: lines, which is
what enables threading,

Yet Dave's client at least preserves the References: line when it is
there. His response in:

Subject: Lidl offers from Thurs.
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 09:25:48 +0100
Message-ID:

Has References: how ever Dave has also quoted part of the message he
is responding to there. So perhaps without quotes it strips/doesn't
create References: or Dave had finger trouble.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to
use the one you have.

Don't shoot the messenger Dave, Alan's comment was a fair one - your
message to which he replied contained no References headers at all, and
hence was rightly treated a new post by standards compliant newsreaders.

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted from -
and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , John Williamson
escribió:

This and all
the other threads where people have complained about a new thread being
created for every post have shown up perfectly threaded on all my
machines in Thunderbird 2.0.24 under XP,using News Individual Net's server.

Probably threading by Subject: rather than References:.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 09/07/2011 11:25, John Williamson wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.

At least part of the problem is with your settings, Alan. This and all
the other threads where people have complained about a new thread being
created for every post have shown up perfectly threaded on all my
machines in Thunderbird 2.0.24 under XP,using News Individual Net's server.

Very odd - I'm using XP/Thunderbird 3.1.11 (for both this and the
original post kicking off this thread) and on my system Dave's post has
started a new thread... WTF??? Have I got settings wrong somewhere?

David

On 09/07/2011 09:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
It's not uncommon for installers or repairers to omit a fairly costly item
like inhibitor. Without any, a system will still last the warranty period.
And then provide more work for them or their trade rather earlier than if
it is used. A win win situation - for them.

Indeed. My boiler was installed a couple of years ago by a different
plumber from the same firm, which actually I have hitherto trusted and
used (for my gas stuff) for a long time. On the log book he'd stated
that Sentinel had been used and admittedly I took that at face value.

On reflection I now wish I'd run off a jar-full from a drain cock for a
bit of diy analysis before yesterday

David

Lobster wrote:

On 09/07/2011 11:25, John Williamson wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.

At least part of the problem is with your settings, Alan. This and all
the other threads where people have complained about a new thread being
created for every post have shown up perfectly threaded on all my
machines in Thunderbird 2.0.24 under XP,using News Individual Net's server.

Very odd - I'm using XP/Thunderbird 3.1.11 (for both this and the
original post kicking off this thread) and on my system Dave's post has
started a new thread... WTF??? Have I got settings wrong somewhere?


No, there is no 'References' line in the Headers, so some (compliant)
newsreaders cannot put it into the thread where it should have been.
If there was a "reference' in the header, all newsreaders can thread it
properly, as it is, some can, some can't.

Alan.


--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

A.Lee wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's not uncommon for installers or repairers to omit a fairly costly
item
like inhibitor. Without any, a system will still last the warranty
period.
And then provide more work for them or their trade rather earlier than if
it is used. A win win situation - for them.

Do you think you could sort out your newsreader settings please - your
posts are showing as a new thread each time, as well as you've snipped
the previous content, so we dont know what you are talking about unless
the thread has already been read.

It looks fine here, through OE on XP.

En el artículo , Lobster davidlobs
escribió:

On the log book he'd stated
that Sentinel had been used and admittedly I took that at face value.

The plumber who fitted my new boiler peeled a label off the bottle of
Sentinel and stuck it to the front of the boiler.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to
use the one you have.

Don't shoot the messenger Dave, Alan's comment was a fair one - your
message to which he replied contained no References headers at all, and
hence was rightly treated a new post by standards compliant newsreaders.

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted from -
and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

I suspect that (like tin which I use) they allow threading by subject
as well as message ID so cope with imperfect posters.

--
Chris Green

In article ,
wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how
to use the one you have.

Don't shoot the messenger Dave, Alan's comment was a fair one - your
message to which he replied contained no References headers at all,
and hence was rightly treated a new post by standards compliant
newsreaders.

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted
from - and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

I suspect that (like tin which I use) they allow threading by subject
as well as message ID so cope with imperfect posters.

Of course. I wasn't replying to any particular post so just replied to the
subject. If a newsreader can't cope with that it's badly designed.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/07/2011 15:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Of course. I wasn't replying to any particular post so just replied to the
subject.

Ah. Strange use but explains it.

No ones software is broken.

--
Adrian C

On 09/07/2011 15:07, wrote:
"Dave Plowman wrote:
In articled4OdnRgCk8q9voXTnZ2dnUVZ7t2dnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
John wrote:
I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to
use the one you have.

Don't shoot the messenger Dave, Alan's comment was a fair one - your
message to which he replied contained no References headers at all, and
hence was rightly treated a new post by standards compliant newsreaders.

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted from -
and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

I use TB and it came up as a new thread...

I suspect that (like tin which I use) they allow threading by subject
as well as message ID so cope with imperfect posters.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Of course. I wasn't replying to any particular post so just replied to the
subject. If a newsreader can't cope with that it's badly designed.

As in started a new post and just typed the Subject yourself? That would
explain it. The "correct" answer would have been for the reader to display
it as a new thread that just happened to have the same subject. Many (most?)
client these days just thread on subject and largely ignore the headers :-(

If you hit reply to any post then it should have added a header to show
which article you were referencing - many clients don't these days :-(

Darren

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

So would outlook express and various other readers. Usually because they
ignore the references headers altogether, and just thread on message
titles. (hence why a title change will break threading on some newsreaders)

Can you chaps kindly take your boring sub-thread about newsreaders etc
offline or at least retitle your subthread? I keep checking in look for
juicy details of some plumbing disaster only to find zzzzzzz zonk -
head slumps onto keyboard


Ah well, changing the title of posts in this thread will make this appear as
a new thread in readers that just use the subject line to make the connection.

Clients using the headers will show it as a changed subject under the main
thread (assuming my client is working - it did when I compiled it 14 years
ago :-))

Darren

On 09/07/2011 19:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/07/2011 12:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted from -
and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

Not in TB 3.1.11 here...


FWIW Threading options may be set differently in Thunderbird depending
on version.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/MailNews:Message_Threading

TB 3.x defaults to mail.strict_threading = true
TB 2.x defaulted to mail.strict_threading = false

'Strict-theading' is threading by Message-ID. If false, the client
action is to thread using subject titles.

--
Adrian C

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Of course. I wasn't replying to any particular post so just replied to the
subject. If a newsreader can't cope with that it's badly designed.

There's no such concept in the news protocol (you reply to articles,
not subjects or threads), so it's a bit naughty of your client to
allow you to do this.

That means different readers are likely do handle it differently,
and not necessarily how you intended. In a threaded newsreader,
it's a broken thread, or another thread which happens to have the
same Subject: but might not be displayed with the original thread
depending how it orders different threads.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

quote
"I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to use
the one you have."

your headers...

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 09:22:56 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 10
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: Y4lVOo3N2sO6iMyMpcYdZA.user.speranza.aioe.org
X-Complaints-To:
User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/4.39) NewsHound/v1.50-32

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 19:58:52 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 09/07/2011 19:19, D.M.Chapman wrote:
In , Tim
wrote:
In , John
wrote:

So would outlook express and various other readers. Usually because
they ignore the references headers altogether, and just thread on
message titles. (hence why a title change will break threading on
some newsreaders)

Can you chaps kindly take your boring sub-thread about newsreaders etc
offline or at least retitle your subthread? I keep checking in look
for juicy details of some plumbing disaster only to find zzzzzzzzonk
- head slumps onto keyboard


Ah well, changing the title of posts in this thread will make this
appear as a new thread in readers that just use the subject line to
make the connection.

Clients using the headers will show it as a changed subject under the
main thread (assuming my client is working - it did when I compiled it
14 years ago :-))

Still nicely threaded here...

(let's hope Tim has nodded off by now ;-)


Pan is reading it as continuously threaded too. We can't all be
wrong. ;-)
'gnight Tim...
:-D

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

On 09/07/2011 17:42, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 09/07/2011 15:07, wrote:
"Dave Plowman wrote:
In articled4OdnRgCk8q9voXTnZ2dnUVZ7t2dnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
John wrote:
I'd suggest you get yourself a compliant newsreader. Or learn how to
use the one you have.

Don't shoot the messenger Dave, Alan's comment was a fair one - your
message to which he replied contained no References headers at all, and
hence was rightly treated a new post by standards compliant
newsreaders.

It shows up in the same thread on both Pluto - where it was posted
from -
and Thunderbird. In time of posting order.

I use TB and it came up as a new thread...

Snap.

SteveW

On 09/07/2011 15:05, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el , Lobsterdavidlobs
escribió:

On the log book he'd stated
that Sentinel had been used and admittedly I took that at face value.

The plumber who fitted my new boiler peeled a label off the bottle of
Sentinel and stuck it to the front of the boiler.

Good point; I routinely do that myself. I have no such sticker on my
own new boiler, though my guy yesterday mentioned, when I asked which
inhibitor to buy, that his firm uses a 'different trade Sentinel product
the same as X100' - in retrospect not sure what that meant, but he had
no reason not to just say 'X100'...

(also, having filled my system yesterday using my X100, he didn't use
the sticker)

David

In article ,
D.M.Chapman dmc@puffin. wrote:
Of course. I wasn't replying to any particular post so just replied to
the subject. If a newsreader can't cope with that it's badly designed.

As in started a new post and just typed the Subject yourself?

No. All I need to do is highlight the Subject.

That would
explain it. The "correct" answer would have been for the reader to
display it as a new thread that just happened to have the same subject.
Many (most?) client these days just thread on subject and largely ignore
the headers :-(

Yes. Not something I like.

If you hit reply to any post then it should have added a header to show
which article you were referencing - many clients don't these days :-(

But I wasn't referencing to any article - just the subject.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mark wrote:
your headers...

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers

And? If your newsreader can't put this under the same subject heading...

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/07/2011 15:05, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

The plumber who fitted my new boiler peeled a label off the bottle of
Sentinel and stuck it to the front of the boiler.


I've left the empty bottle on top of the header tank. The front of the
boiler is a bit too visible (not in cupboard or anything).

Andy
Another TB3 user with a new thread!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
your headers...

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers

And? If your newsreader can't put this under the same subject heading...


most people on here seem to have the sense to use a use a standards
compliant newsreader, and know how to use it unlike you.

-

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
your headers...

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers

And? If your newsreader can't put this under the same subject
heading...


most people on here seem to have the sense to use a use a standards
compliant newsreader, and know how to use it unlike you.

Dear boy, I'm not the one complaining...

--
*Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
your headers...

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers

And? If your newsreader can't put this under the same subject
heading...


most people on here seem to have the sense to use a use a standards
compliant newsreader, and know how to use it unlike you.

Dear boy, I'm not the one complaining...


Indeed, you are the person being complained about
so do take the time and learn how to post a Followup to a newsgroup
correctly.

-

On 11/07/2011 09:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Mark wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mark wrote:
your headers...
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Bloody plumbers
And? If your newsreader can't put this under the same subject
heading...
most people on here seem to have the sense to use a use a standards
compliant newsreader, and know how to use it unlike you.
Dear boy, I'm not the one complaining...

Indeed, you are the person being complained about
so do take the time and learn how to post a Followup to a newsgroup
correctly.

I'm the one complaining - about your collective bloody boring subthread
about crap newsreaders itch bitch mumble grumble foams at the mouth,
falls over and chews carpet

Don't worry Tim... I've just been to pick up the replacement anode I
orded on Friday (see original post in this thread) and since I'm
astounded at how much bigger it is than the sorry original item I saw on
Friday, once I've got the old one out again I'll post a photo of the
'before' and 'after', in order to bring the thread back on track!

David

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
Don't worry Tim... I've just been to pick up the replacement anode I
orded on Friday (see original post in this thread) and since I'm
astounded at how much bigger it is than the sorry original item I saw on
Friday, once I've got the old one out again I'll post a photo of the
'before' and 'after', in order to bring the thread back on track!

Not knowing anything about pressurised systems, what is it that requires
them to have a sacrificial anode, while 'ordinary' ones not?

--
*I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 13:38:45 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Not knowing anything about pressurised systems, what is it that requires
them to have a sacrificial anode, while 'ordinary' ones not?

Steel tank?

--
Cheers
Dave.