On Jul 7, 6:13*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. *Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!

No, I'll say I'm The Natural Philosopher, and then stand there while I
get pelted with bar snacks.

On Jul 7, 6:13*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. *Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!

I like this! :-)
Lyn

On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per unit
for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is not the
same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow (illegally) wired
up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into it from the batteries.


Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?

Michael

On Jul 8, 9:52*am, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per unit
for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is not the
same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow (illegally) wired
up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into it from the batteries..

Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?

Michael

No you don't understand the price structure. You get paid for all
electricity you generate whether you use it or not. They have no means
of knowing when it was generated.
You get an additional small payment for power exported, (deemed to be
50%in small instalations, not actually measured.)

On 08/07/2011 10:08, harry wrote:
On Jul 8, 9:52 am, Michael
wrote:
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per unit
for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is not the
same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow (illegally) wired
up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into it from the batteries.

Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?

Michael

No you don't understand the price structure. You get paid for all
electricity you generate whether you use it or not.

I know - but the scam is only a scam if assuming that the UPS and
batteries are connected in such a way that they feed the generation
meter of the PV system, which is *not* the same thing as measuring any
units exported to the grid by having another system (UPS, wind,
whatever) *alongside* the PV system. If you want to get paid for
exactly what you export (rather than the 50% standard rate based on the
certificated rating of the PV system) then you have both a generation
meter and an export meter. You get 3p for export meter units (less than
the 5p night-time rating feeding the UPS, is it?) and 43p for the
generation meter units.

If your system is registered and certificated (which it has to be to
qualify for the FIT) then surely - I would hope - the utility companies
would be on the look-out for people whose PV system's generation meter
somehow magically reads far higher figures than could possibly be
expected to in the course of a year. Surely they'll be wise to the fact
that 43p per unit is something that could tempt illegal alterations to
equipment.

Michael

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per unit
for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is not the
same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow (illegally) wired
up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into it from the batteries.


Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?


Of course. Their immorality is already an established fact.
Michael

In message , Michael
Kilpatrick writes
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per
unit for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is
not the same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow
(illegally) wired up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into
it from the batteries.


Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?


Well, they are criminals ...

--
geoff

On Jul 8, 10:32*pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Michael
Kilpatrick writes





On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per
unit for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is
not the same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow
(illegally) wired up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into
it from the batteries.

Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?

Well, they are criminals ...

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, which law have they broken?

On 08/07/2011 09:52, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

Erm, I think you may be wrong right at the very start. Getting the FIT
very much depends when the system was installed, and by who. Not just
any old house with any old pre-existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak.

The ability to instal a UPS to run your house off night-stored
electricity is entirely independent of whether or not you have a PV
installation.

Furthermore, you will not be feeding electricity into the grid from the
batteries, only from the PV. And then you can only get about 3p per unit
for any electricity you sell to the grid. The 43p for the FIT is not the
same thing at all. Unless of course you have somehow (illegally) wired
up your PV inverter and meter in order to feed into it from the batteries.


Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone, whether with a PV installation or not,
do that. But I get the impression you think that people with PV
installations would be more tempted to break the law?

Michael

Of course he does! The voices in his head have told him so.

Do I have evidence for this? Of course not.

On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it
can in the day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar
panels are all sending leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.


Whatever you do don't make this mistake. In spain the daft idiots sold
"solar power" to the grid at night :-)

http://www.theecologist.org/News/new...y_in_u k.html

Spanish authorities are investigating companies who claim to have
produced solar energy at night

Authorities in Spain have launched an investigation into solar energy
installations that have been selling electricity apparently generated at
night.

The Spanish government called on the National Energy Commission (CNE) to
look into the matter after a newspaper investigation discovered
irregularities in the times at which solar energy was being generated.

Spanish newspaper El Mundo found that between November and January, 4500
megawatt hours (MWh) of solar energy were sold to the electricity grid
between midnight and seven in the morning.

It has been suggested that some plants in the regions of
Castilla-La-Mancha, Canarias and AndalucÃ*a have been using diesel
generators connected to their solar panel arrays to illegally benefit
from government subsidies.

Rigorous enforcement needed

The Spanish Solar Industry Association (ASIF) immediately called for the
€˜rigorous enforcement of the law against anyone responsible for illicit
activities.

€˜This is very simple if solar facilities are claiming to have produced
electricity at night, a spokesperson for ASIF said.

In the UK, Guardian environmental columnist George Monbiot has argued
the newly introduced UK Feed-in Tariff (FIT) could also be susceptible
to fraud.

€˜By buying electricity for 7p and selling it for 44p (if you sell power
to the grid rather than using it yourself, you get an extra 3p), they'll
make a 600 per cent profit, he has said, implying that generators may
similarly hijack solar installations.

On Jul 8, 10:51*am, CWatters
wrote:
On 07/07/2011 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
* Required. One house with existing PV installation.
*
* BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
* can scam.
*
* As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.
*
* Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it
* can in the day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar
* panels are all sending leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

Whatever you do don't make this mistake. In spain the daft idiots sold
"solar power" to the grid at night :-)

http://www.theecologist.org/News/new...panish_nightti...

Spanish authorities are investigating companies who claim to have
produced solar energy at night

Authorities in Spain have launched an investigation into solar energy
installations that have been selling electricity apparently generated at
night.

The Spanish government called on the National Energy Commission (CNE) to
look into the matter after a newspaper investigation discovered
irregularities in the times at which solar energy was being generated.

Spanish newspaper El Mundo found that between November and January, 4500
megawatt hours (MWh) of solar energy were sold to the electricity grid
between midnight and seven in the morning.

It has been suggested that some plants in the regions of
Castilla-La-Mancha, Canarias and Andalucía have been using diesel
generators connected to their solar panel arrays to illegally benefit
from government subsidies.

Rigorous enforcement needed

The Spanish Solar Industry Association (ASIF) immediately called for the
‘rigorous enforcement of the law against anyone responsible for illicit
activities’.

‘This is very simple if solar facilities are claiming to have produced
electricity at night,’ a spokesperson for ASIF said.

In the UK, Guardian environmental columnist George Monbiot has argued
the newly introduced UK Feed-in Tariff (FIT) could also be susceptible
to fraud.

‘By buying electricity for 7p and selling it for 44p (if you sell power
to the grid rather than using it yourself, you get an extra 3p), they'll
make a 600 per cent profit,’ he has said, implying that generators may
similarly hijack solar installations.

No he's not. All that's needed isto put mains electricity through the
solar meter.
WHF needs a diesel generator to do that?

On 07/07/11 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.


Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!


You could also power lights to shine onto the solar panels, and this
might even be legal :-).

Alex Selby wrote:
On 07/07/11 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.


Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!


You could also power lights to shine onto the solar panels, and this
might even be legal :-).

Put not profitable at current conversion efficiencies.

In message , Alex Selby
writes
On 07/07/11 18:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.


Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!


You could also power lights to shine onto the solar panels, and this
might even be legal :-).

Harry could always drop his skidmarked undies and test whether the sun
really does shine out of his arse

He might be surprised at the lack of result

--
geoff

On Jul 7, 6:13*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. *Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!



Even simpler, buy a big battery charger, plug it in to the mains and
connect it across the PV array.

Robert

On Jul 11, 9:26*am, RobertL wrote:
On Jul 7, 6:13*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:





Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. *Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!

Even simpler, buy a big battery charger, plug it in to the mains and
connect it across the PV array.

Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So where are you going to get a bettery charger that puts out six or
seven hundred volts DC?
And how is it better than putting mains electricity through the
generation meter?
You really are a dolt.

On Jul 7, 6:13*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Required. One house with existing PV installation.

BIG ex computer machine room UPS. The bigger it is the more money you
can scam.

As many old or near dead car batteries as you can muster.

Hook up the UPS to run the house and generate as much as it can in the
day. So you the UPS, the batteries and the solar panels are all sending
leccy back to the grid at 45p a unit.

At night run the house and charge the batteries on electricity bought at
5p a unit off peak. Or a pair of croc clips upstream of the meter
altogether.

Then go out and gloat at the pub that you have ripped off the country to
the tune of several rounds every day. *Whilst looking smug and green to
the unwashed bearded be-sandalled greenie in the Public bar. If anyone
accosts you, tell them you name is 'harry'.

Simples!

I do like this!
Lyn