In article ,
andrew wrote:
I had a Tiger Cub once,, when I was a boy,,

Me too, ran like a sewing machine but I wanted something more powerful...

But of course was rare for a small bike in that it was a four-stroke.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer. They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Usually under the sump, not the diesel tank. Old oils, pre-
multigrade, became so thick when cold that it was hard to turn the
engine over.

No - under the fuel tank. I can not only remember seeing this in Aberdeen
when a kid - but much later on in TV film footage from Russia. It's one
reason the UK army stuck with petrol engines for much longer than sensible.

--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:26:51 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:08:29 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

"Winter" petrol, usually supplied from November through to April in
the UK goes off relatively quickly

Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer.

The big name petrol producers certainly used to, in fact that was
their USP.

I remember a TV advert showing a balloon used to demonstrate that
winter petrol was more volatile than summer.

They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Derek G

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer. They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Usually under the sump, not the diesel tank. Old oils, pre-
multigrade, became so thick when cold that it was hard to turn the
engine over.

No - under the fuel tank. I can not only remember seeing this in Aberdeen
when a kid - but much later on in TV film footage from Russia. It's one
reason the UK army stuck with petrol engines for much longer than sensible.

I remember doing it, accompanied by a blowlamp onto the fuel filter and
sedimentor bowl to warm them up, followed by a trip to buy some petrol
to put in the tank as soon as the engine got running. Or towing the dead
coaches into the workshop and aiming a 30KW blown air heater at the
appropriate bits for a quarter of an hour or so. Handy things, petrol
Land Rovers.

If you left the engine running overnight, the engine heat warmed up the
diesel returning to the tank just enough to prevent the problem.
Usually.....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 07/06/2011 11:06, John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer. They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Usually under the sump, not the diesel tank. Old oils, pre-
multigrade, became so thick when cold that it was hard to turn the
engine over.

No - under the fuel tank. I can not only remember seeing this in
Aberdeen
when a kid - but much later on in TV film footage from Russia. It's one
reason the UK army stuck with petrol engines for much longer than
sensible.

I remember doing it, accompanied by a blowlamp onto the fuel filter
and sedimentor bowl to warm them up, followed by a trip to buy some
petrol to put in the tank as soon as the engine got running. Or towing
the dead coaches into the workshop and aiming a 30KW blown air heater
at the appropriate bits for a quarter of an hour or so. Handy things,
petrol Land Rovers.

If you left the engine running overnight, the engine heat warmed up
the diesel returning to the tank just enough to prevent the problem.
Usually.....

I had a Nissan car and in the hand book it suggested that you mix
paraffin with the diesel for winter use, it then had a proviso and said
not legal in UK.

Gary

On 07/06/2011 09:51, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Jun 7, 9:26 am, "Dave
wrote:

Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer. They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Usually under the sump, not the diesel tank. Old oils, pre-
multigrade, became so thick when cold that it was hard to turn the
engine over.

Diesel doesn't become thick enough that it's a problem to pump it out
of the fuel tank, but it does precipitate wax crystals. In bulk it
still flows well enough, but if you pass it through a small space,
like the fuel filter or the injection pump, it blocks. The fix for
this in Western Europe is to electrically heat the filter body. In
Eastern Europe it's to use a heated pre-tank of a gallon or two, but
there's still no need to heat the main tanks.

I'd add "any more than the return does" to that last bit.

On Jun 7, 10:42*am, Derek G. wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:26:51 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:08:29 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

"Winter" petrol, usually supplied from November through to April in
the UK goes off relatively quickly

Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer.

The big name petrol producers certainly used to, in fact that was
their USP.

I remember a TV advert showing a balloon used to demonstrate that
winter petrol was more volatile than summer.

They
do with diesel, the "wax" can precipitate out at low temperatures
blocking filters and fuel lines. Used to be a serious problem, tales
from my father of fires being lit under the fuel tanks of trucks when
we used to get proper winters.

Derek G

I once worked as a filling station night attendant on the 74 in
Southern Scotland..
There was an all night cafe there too,, it was a popular truckers
stop..
It would be about forty years ago now,, an one night it was so cold,,
trucks that had travelled many miles
were just stopped in their tracks... It was a least minus twenty,,
I remember the news said we was the coldest spot south of warsaw...
An the road was littered with loads of paralysed lorrys....

Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

I guess in countrys where they expect extreme cold they will have
something built in to the machines to keep the warm..

Or they are more careful to drain the water traps..
Or maybe trapped condensate water gets frozen in their tanks,,
Or perhaps deisel is better formulated now..
Or tanks can be insulated,, does that happen ?
Or water froze in radiators,, I think there was some of that too,,?

Whers the finger pointin..??

.................................................. .......................



.................................................. .................................................. ...

Rupert Bear wrote:
I once worked as a filling station night attendant on the 74 in
Southern Scotland..
There was an all night cafe there too,, it was a popular truckers
stop..
It would be about forty years ago now,, an one night it was so cold,,
trucks that had travelled many miles
were just stopped in their tracks... It was a least minus twenty,,
I remember the news said we was the coldest spot south of warsaw...
An the road was littered with loads of paralysed lorrys....

Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

Oh, it certainly did.....

I guess in countrys where they expect extreme cold they will have
something built in to the machines to keep the warm..

Block heaters on occasion. Fire brigades here used to use them to
preheat the engines in the appliances (Oil and water, with a circulating
pump for the oil, too.) to reduce the shock of going from dead cold to
flat out in a couple of seconds. Didn't stop the tops coming off Cummins
pistons in the 70s, though.

Or they are more careful to drain the water traps..
In the compressed air system, too. Modern brake air systems have air
dryers, too.

Or maybe trapped condensate water gets frozen in their tanks,,
Unlikely, as it would have to come a fair way up the tank to cause a
problem, the dip tube is normally an inch or so up the tank. Although, I
have seen a build up of ice crystals bocking a sedimentor bowl on at
least on lorry.

Or perhaps deisel is better formulated now..
It is.

Or tanks can be insulated,, does that happen ?

Wouldn't help.

Or water froze in radiators,, I think there was some of that too,,?

Most British people then used to only put protection in down to about
-5C, as they didn't need the anti-corrosion protection they need now.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Rupert Bear wrote:
Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

Some of them might have had more to wail about. 40 years ago, there were
still trucks on the road with no cab heaters.

Optional extras, and the driver can always wear a coat and gloves. And
on some trucks up until at least the 60s, you could wind the windscreen
up out of the way to see through the frost on it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 06:20:23 -0700, Rupert Bear wrote:
I guess in countrys where they expect extreme cold they will have
something built in to the machines to keep the warm..

Block heaters (oil, coolant or both) are pretty common here in northern
MN, where it usually makes it to -30 for a few days of the year. I've
seen battery heaters too, although those are less common. Not much runs
on diesel out here in the US compared to the UK - plant equipment,
tractors, buses etc. are normally petrol. Bigger trucks are usually
diesel though, so I assume they pre-heat the fuel.

cheers

Jules

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article
,
Rupert Bear wrote:
Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

Some of them might have had more to wail about. 40 years ago, there were
still trucks on the road with no cab heaters.

Heaters were an option in many cars.
--
hugh
"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, Or who said it, Even if
I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own
common sense." Buddha

On Jun 7, 9:44*pm, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Nick Leverton
saying something like:

http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Sta...nt_Engine_Star....

Every workshop should have some ...

Crap.

I did see one particularly good use for this stuff..

I saw some Iclandic 4 wheel drive,, off road beasties on the telly....
Some of them things have so much power they can drive over water
with their big chunkies..

To compete in snow and soft slurry they ran their tires at very low
pressures..
A frequent problem was that they often throw the rubber off the rim..

They Iclandics hada quick solve for the problem,, a squirt of ether or
lighter gas into the
tire and light it...

KERRPOW,!,,,, an boom,, an the tire exploded right back on the rim
like magic..

Love to watch that kinda stuff..


.................................................. .............

In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article
,
Rupert Bear wrote:
Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

Some of them might have had more to wail about. 40 years ago, there were
still trucks on the road with no cab heaters.

Heaters were an option in many cars.

They were, although pretty well universal by then. But a truck driver
usually has no option about being out in all weathers, unlike most car
drivers. Neither does he usually have a say in the options fitted to his
truck.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 June, 16:24, "TMC" wrote:
Old Partner s50 chain saw

It came from the garage of a deceased relative no reason to believe that it
was faulty was clean outside blade sharp and tensioned

there is a spark

the plug gets wet so there is fuel delivered

no fuel in when I got it

new fuel 50:1 mix

air filter clean

tried with choke off 1/2 and full

checked that the on off switch enables disables the spark

had top off of carb diaphram fine

after drying plug and leaving the cylinder to dry it almost starts though
that could be wishful thinking

getting tired of pulling the recoil starter now

any thoughts or tips

Once I have sorted this the Dolmar 309 is next

After many years and many two stroke machines the following is my
tried and tested method of starting a two stroke.

1/ Pump fuel bulb 5-6 times.
2/ Leave choke OFF and pull the cord 4/5 times (You are NOT trying to
start it)
3/ Full choke. Pull till it coughs then switch to 1/2 choke and it
should start on the next one or two pulls.
4/ Blip the throttle repeatedly until engine is warm and the turn
choke off.

They all have their own personalities. A Stihl chain saw I had had no
priming bulb and was the original ******* to start. Carburettor
eventually failed and it couldn't be repaired. The Husqvarna
replacement starts easier but takes a lot of faffing about blipping
the throttle before it will run cleanly

A Flymo with a Honda 4 stroke engine is another pup.

A Bearcat shredder is a bitch to start as it lacks the weight of a
blade assemble as on a lawnmower. The blade on a lawnmower acts as a
flywheel when starting the engine

The easiest to start is the Kubota tiller. Starts every spring on the
first pull of the cord.

If only these two stroke engines had an easy way to inject a spray of
EasyStart into the carburettor ;-(

Paul Mc Cann

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember untold kid
saying something like:

I saw some Iclandic 4 wheel drive,, off road beasties on the telly....
Some of them things have so much power they can drive over water
with their big chunkies..

To compete in snow and soft slurry they ran their tires at very low
pressures..
A frequent problem was that they often throw the rubber off the rim..

They Iclandics hada quick solve for the problem,, a squirt of ether or
lighter gas into the
tire and light it...

KERRPOW,!,,,, an boom,, an the tire exploded right back on the rim
like magic..

Love to watch that kinda stuff..

There's a few clips of that on youtube - impressive stuff, but I'd heard
of it being done on tractor tyres long since, using an eggcupful of
petrol.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember fred saying
something like:

If only these two stroke engines had an easy way to inject a spray of
EasyStart into the carburettor ;-(

I avoid that ****e like the plague, after seeing the damage it does.
Also, I found that the simple application of a hot air gun to the intake
works wonders on small petrol and diesel engines.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2011-06-07, hugh ] wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article
,
Rupert Bear wrote:
Frozen Diesel was the universal wail from the truckers in the cafe..
You wouldint think it would affect them big lorrys once they was well
warmed up like that,,but it did...

Some of them might have had more to wail about. 40 years ago, there were
still trucks on the road with no cab heaters.

Heaters were an option in many cars.

Still are in a very few. (Caterham 7 and, er, ....?)


Ferraris?
--
hugh
"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, Or who said it, Even if
I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own
common sense." Buddha

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:33:34 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember fred saying
something like:

If only these two stroke engines had an easy way to inject a spray of
EasyStart into the carburettor ;-(

I avoid that ****e like the plague, after seeing the damage it does.
Also, I found that the simple application of a hot air gun to the intake
works wonders on small petrol and diesel engines.

Not easy when you need the generator to power the hot air gun...
--

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:26:51 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:08:29 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

"Winter" petrol, usually supplied from November through to April in
the UK goes off relatively quickly

Pretty sure they don't mess about with petrol winter v summer.

Well my info was direct from the horses mouth from someone who was in
a senior position at a major oil refinery in the UK. Maybe things have
changed but that was the case in about 1996/97.

--

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
saying something like:

Not easy when you need the generator to power the hot air gun...

Aha. I first came across the hot air method forty years ago, which
employed a burning rag held to the intake - mind you, you couldn't
easily do that with modern plastic intakes. It certainly started a
****eOldDieselLandy with a degree of reliability, unlike the so-called
'glow plugs'.

On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 12:06:49 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
saying something like:

Not easy when you need the generator to power the hot air gun...

Aha. I first came across the hot air method forty years ago, which
employed a burning rag held to the intake - mind you, you couldn't
easily do that with modern plastic intakes. It certainly started a
****eOldDieselLandy with a degree of reliability, unlike the so-called
'glow plugs'.

Something a bit different to hot air guns, burning rags or glow plugs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi2hTrDUAc


--

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:49:50 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:
Something a bit different to hot air guns, burning rags or glow plugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi2hTrDUAc

Niceness :-)

I like this method of starting a radial engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLVtA3LHlE

cheers

Jules

On Jun 10, 3:49*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:

Something a bit different to hot air guns, burning rags or glow plugs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi2hTrDUAc

--

Well.. thats interesting stuff,, I heard stories about those
ol tractors they would start with a fag-end but never seen one..

Bet there was some cussing if they ever stalled the engine..

I came across some other links...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJpZfp0Ss2U&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_cG...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsG_...eature=related


.................................................. .........

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:25:59 -0700 (PDT), Rupert Bear
wrote:

On Jun 10, 3:49*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:

Something a bit different to hot air guns, burning rags or glow plugs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi2hTrDUAc

--

Well.. thats interesting stuff,, I heard stories about those
ol tractors they would start with a fag-end but never seen one..

Bet there was some cussing if they ever stalled the engine..

They have somewhere around an 8 litre engine (a single cylinder!) The
powder cartridges as shown in the video were a very quick way to start
them but they eventually gummed up the internals.

They could also be hand cranked. The engine was decompressed with a
lever that linked to a follower on the flywheel outside diameter. In
the top of the combustion chamber you then placed a wad of paper
soaked in saltpeter.

The flywheel has a spiral groove on its outer diameter and after you
built up enough speed after a few revs the follower dropped off the
end and the engine near instantly regained compression, as it passed
top dead centre it fired - hopefully.


--

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Other Mike
saying something like:

Something a bit different to hot air guns, burning rags or glow plugs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi2hTrDUAc

Love the jig and the dog dance