A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.

When I found one such extreme bodge I chiselled grooves in the top of the
floorboards, fitted steel straps in the grooves which I screwed to the
wood below, and poured in epoxy glue.
Still a bodge, but less of one, and it seems to have stood up for years.

The position of this bodge next to a partition added to enclose a
shower tray means that one can't just remove the floorboard halves and
add a new uncut one.
Not without removing the whole shower partition and heavy tray.

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

I ask because a new tenant has just discovered that there appears to be
a foot-long section of floorboard which has sunk below the level of the
rest of the floor.
Which might be a piece of floorboard lying between two joists and
supported only by the insulating rubble (yes, I've come across that
also).

I'll have to take up lino etc. in the kitchen nook to see what exactly
has happened, but thought I'd ask about repair methods beforehand.

There is of course the unhappy thought that the wood might have rotted,
but it's several feet from any source of water so I hope not.

Over the years I've also come across small hiding-holes apparently made
by former tenants, for a purpose one can imagine. Another possibility.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

In article ,
Windmill wrote:
A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.



Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

[Snip]

Run a 2 x 2 batten between adjacent floorboards screwed to them and screw
the ends to that.

--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Windmill wrote:
A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect
the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards
in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were
supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus
free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.



Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious
workmanship?

[Snip]

Run a 2 x 2 batten between adjacent floorboards screwed to them and
screw
the ends to that.

--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

.... and you really don't want 'insulating' rubble between your floor
boards or you will get rot as the air circulation will be blocked

AWEM

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.


Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?


I don't know if it's the accepted method but I have fixed a similar problem
by lifting one part of the cut board and inserting another piece of wood
underneath so that it fits under both ends of the cut board and the boards
either side, then screwing to all sides.

Mike

On May 2, 1:11*pm, (Windmill)
wrote:

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

Cut both ends back to mid-way through the nearest joist, then a new
piece of floorboard to span.

On Tue, 3 May 2011 02:18:16 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote:

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious
workmanship?

Cut both ends back to mid-way through the nearest joist, then a new
piece of floorboard to span.

Yep, but I get the impression that is not possible as one end is not
accesable.

Variation on the screw a bit under the join is to fit a noggin
between the joists under the join. Probably better than just a bit
screwed underneath as it will be supported by the joists.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Slight OT, but we had a grab rail fitted to the patio step last year,
as a result of Social Services Occ. Therapist recommendations.

They used 2 different size screws - one Phillips one flat to secure
to the wall. The clamp going round the grab rail was a touch loose -
despite them jamming a cut off screw into it, and the upright is very
slightly off vertical.

Unfortunately I worked away from home then. Nowdays (homeworking) I
have a spear and broom ready to chase them off the premises. The OT
also recommended a couple of internal grab rails, which they turned up
to fit ... after a few choice words, they left them for me to fit. I
shudder to think what they could have done with 12 holes to drill.

We previously lived in a (council) rented flat, so DIY was pretty
verboten - in the 6 years there, not one job was done to any
professional standard - and they managed to **** the washing machine
up too, when they moved it incorrectly.

On May 3, 10:52*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Tue, 3 May 2011 02:18:16 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote:
Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious
workmanship?

Cut both ends back to mid-way through the nearest joist, then a new
piece of floorboard to span.

Yep, but I get the impression that is not possible as one end is not
accesable.

Variation on the screw a bit under the join is to fit a noggin
between the joists under the join. Probably better than just a bit
screwed underneath as it will be supported by the joists.

Then you have to take even more boards up to get access to fix the
noggin.

MBQ

Andy Dingley writes:

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?
Cut both ends back to mid-way through the nearest joist, then a new
piece of floorboard to span.

Unfortunately one joist is under the shower partition.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

[Snip]

Run a 2 x 2 batten between adjacent floorboards screwed to them and screw
the ends to that.

Sounds like it might work, if the insulating rubble is removed to give
workingspace.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

"Andrew Mawson" writes:

... and you really don't want 'insulating' rubble between your floor
boards or you will get rot as the air circulation will be blocked

It must depend on the type of rubble that's used, because all of the
buildings near the centre of Edinburgh ( ~1890s vintage) pack the gaps
between joists in this way, and there isn't a major problem as a
result.

I say 'rubble' but don't actually know what it is. Might be the left
over waste from a blast furnace, a coal gas plant, who knows.

I've noticed that some modern replacement material, where the original
has been removed, uses fairly large chunks of whatever-it-is (and is
lighter than the original so might perhaps be poorer at sound
deadening and better as a thermal insulator). Probably a bit better
from the air circulation point of view.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

"MuddyMike" writes:

I don't know if it's the accepted method but I have fixed a similar problem
by lifting one part of the cut board and inserting another piece of wood
underneath so that it fits under both ends of the cut board and the boards
either side, then screwing to all sides.

May have to do something like that. I'm arranging to visit to take up
the lino.



--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

"Dave Liquorice" writes:


Variation on the screw a bit under the join is to fit a noggin
between the joists under the join. Probably better than just a bit
screwed underneath as it will be supported by the joists.

Noggin is one of these words which is highly regional; I think the word
is 'dwang' here in Scotland (was tempted to reply to a quote by saying
that what they did in privacy was their own affair, but not in my flat!).

Anyway, presumably it means those criss-crossed bits of wood I've seen
in unfinished Canadian basements, bracing the joists so they can't
twist.
That might need less digging out of rubble; I'll give it some thought.



--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

In article ,
Windmill wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

[Snip]

Run a 2 x 2 batten between adjacent floorboards screwed to them and
screw the ends to that.

Sounds like it might work, if the insulating rubble is removed to give
workingspace.

I doubt the rubble is there for insulation. Bodgers put this under
floorboards to avoid having to take it away.



--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Windmill wrote:
... and you really don't want 'insulating' rubble between your floor
boards or you will get rot as the air circulation will be blocked

It must depend on the type of rubble that's used, because all of the
buildings near the centre of Edinburgh ( ~1890s vintage) pack the gaps
between joists in this way, and there isn't a major problem as a
result.

I say 'rubble' but don't actually know what it is. Might be the left
over waste from a blast furnace, a coal gas plant, who knows.

Ah - hadn't picked up it was a flat. That idea is common in some parts of
Scotland for sound insulation.

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Windmill wrote:
Noggin is one of these words which is highly regional; I think the word
is 'dwang' here in Scotland (was tempted to reply to a quote by saying
that what they did in privacy was their own affair, but not in my flat!).

A noggin is more usually found in walls and is the same size as the studs,
running between them to add rigidity.

Anyway, presumably it means those criss-crossed bits of wood I've seen
in unfinished Canadian basements, bracing the joists so they can't
twist.

Twisters are normally in the form of a cross and much smaller section than
the joists. To allow pipes etc through.

That might need less digging out of rubble; I'll give it some thought.

But not much use for your problem.

Use the method I described earlier. It's easy and it works.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2 May, 13:11, (Windmill) wrote:
A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.

When I found one such extreme bodge I chiselled grooves in the top of the
floorboards, fitted steel straps in the grooves which I screwed to the
wood below, and poured in epoxy glue.
Still a bodge, but less of one, and it seems to have stood up for years.

The position of this bodge next to a partition added to enclose a
shower tray means that one can't just remove the floorboard halves and
add a new uncut one.
Not without removing the whole shower partition and heavy tray.

Is there an accepted method of repairing such atrocious workmanship?

I ask because a new tenant has just discovered that there appears to be
a foot-long section of floorboard which has sunk below the level of the
rest of the floor.
Which might be a piece of floorboard lying between two joists and
supported only by the insulating rubble (yes, I've come across that
also).

I'll have to take up lino etc. in the kitchen nook to see what exactly
has happened, but thought I'd ask about repair methods beforehand.

There is of course the unhappy thought that the wood might have rotted,
but it's several feet from any source of water so I hope not.

Over the years I've also come across small hiding-holes apparently made
by former tenants, for a purpose one can imagine. Another possibility.

--
Windmill, * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Use *t m i l l
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * @ O n e t e l
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * . c o m

Lift up the "liftable" board and prop it so access is there
cut a similar sized bit of WBP ply say 12 mm as the gap between the
joist and a few mm less than the Fb width
insert ply under fixed side of Fb and cramp and glue with a gap
filling expoxy resin (chuck in a couple of brass screws if you want
belt and braces
let it set
take off cramps
apply glue to projecting ply
lower free board and screw with four brass screws two at each end of
that particular bit
If you want to be even better supported and can reach in under gap put
a small scotch or batten along the joist (say 6" by 3/4 by 1/2" - pre
drilled to ease fixing to joist with thin brass screws) to support the
plywood under each end as it abuts the joists
Make sure all non-receptor timbers(ie floor boards) are pre drilled
and loose on the screw and all receptor (of thread) timbers (ie ply)
are drilled to 5/8ths shank diameter so there is a good bite to the
ply wood to draw it up to the wood

Chris

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
A good few years ago at a time when I couldn't be there to inspect the
work, some tradesman employed as a part of a Council's building
renovation scheme (a 'Common Repair') cut at least two floorboards in
the middle of the gap between joists, so that the ends were supported
only by the rubble packed in below as insulation and were thus free to
float up and down when someone walked over them.



I found two places in our house where the previous owner had cut boards
flush with the joist and then panel pinned a piece of quarter inch square
dowel to the joist for it to rest on. One I found because the landing
carpet started to sag and the other I put my foot through and was lucky not
to damage the lounge ceiling below.
--
Tinkerer

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember lid
(Windmill) saying something like:

It must depend on the type of rubble that's used, because all of the
buildings near the centre of Edinburgh ( ~1890s vintage) pack the gaps
between joists in this way, and there isn't a major problem as a
result.

I say 'rubble' but don't actually know what it is. Might be the left
over waste from a blast furnace, a coal gas plant, who knows.

I've noticed that some modern replacement material, where the original
has been removed, uses fairly large chunks of whatever-it-is (and is
lighter than the original so might perhaps be poorer at sound
deadening and better as a thermal insulator). Probably a bit better
from the air circulation point of view.

Called 'pugging' iirc, and usually (not always) clinker from furnaces
and steelworks, etc. I recall seeing it in my folks' flat when I were a
lad (Glasgow red tenement block). Also, iirc, it wasn't laid directly
onto the lath and plaster, but supported underneath by boards laid
across the joist gaps resting on battens. I assume it did a reasonable
job of soundproofing, as I don't recall hearing anything of the upstairs
neighbours.

On 5 May, 17:04, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember
(Windmill) saying something like:

It must depend on the type of rubble that's used, because all of the
buildings near the centre of Edinburgh ( ~1890s vintage) pack the gaps
between joists in this way, and there isn't a major problem as a
result.

I say 'rubble' but don't actually know what it is. Might be the left
over waste from a blast furnace, a coal gas plant, who knows.

I've noticed that some modern replacement material, where the original
has been removed, uses fairly large chunks of whatever-it-is (and is
lighter than the original so might perhaps be poorer at sound
deadening and better as a thermal insulator). Probably a bit better
from the air circulation point of view.

Called 'pugging' iirc, and usually (not always) clinker from furnaces
and steelworks, etc. I recall seeing it in my folks' flat when I were a
lad (Glasgow red tenement block). Also, iirc, it wasn't laid directly
onto the lath and plaster, but supported underneath by boards laid
across the joist gaps resting on battens. I assume it did a reasonable
job of soundproofing, as I don't recall hearing anything of the upstairs
neighbours.

Very common to find pugging with sea shell and lime down south!