After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

On Mar 14, 9:14 am, "john south" wrote:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

google is your friend

Jim K

john south wrote:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.



IANAE but apart from a specific glass saucepan, I 'wouldn't have dreamt
of putting a Pyrex bowl directly on a gas hob. We regularly use ceramic
ovenproof dishes, but again, I would not have considered putting them
directly on the hob. Just my two-penneth FWIW.

"john south" wrote in message
...
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish,
since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting
a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always
start on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

I'm with your wife on this one!

In article ,
"john south" writes:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

Pyrex doesn't imply a particular type of glass. Originally it was
borosilicate glass, but it's now just used as a well-known trade
name to sell various different types of glass. Different companies
use the name differently in different parts of the world.

Borosilicate glass tends to be used for higher temperature applications,
although I don't know what glass saucepans are made of.

Even soda-lime glass (used for most glass applications) shouldn't melt
in an ordinary domestic oven. Sometimes it's toughened - did it break
like a toughened windscreen shattering?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
[snip]
Even soda-lime glass (used for most glass applications) shouldn't melt
in an ordinary domestic oven. Sometimes it's toughened - did it break
like a toughened windscreen shattering?

Please don't feed the troll.

"john south" wrote in message
...
Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

Obviously not!

Mike

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:14:27 -0000, "john south"
wrote:

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass.

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

On 14/03/11 09:14, john south wrote:

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

Au contraire mon ami. We know about it's oven-proof status. What we
don't know is whether it was designed to be so.


But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

I wouldn't do it. The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention. Pyrex has existed a lot longer than that.


--
Bernard Peek

"john south" wrote in message
...

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting
a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always
start on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass.

Even minimum heat involves a naked gas flame so would be very hot (try
holding your finger over it!). And being more localised might result in even
more stresses.

Trying using a microwave oven instead. Or a different vessel.

--
Bartc

Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:14:27 -0000, "john south"
wrote:

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass.

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

That page seems to have at least one error. The Pyrex sold in the UK is all
borosilicate, not soda glass. And the "undetermined" claim that Corning
swapped to soda glass in the 1990s is way out. Corning themselves changed
to soda glass in the 1940s. Europe stayed with borosilicate because Corning
licences production to J A Jobling who had some integrity.

Steve Firth gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

That page seems to have at least one error. The Pyrex sold in the UK is
all borosilicate, not soda glass.

They did say that...

....the company's products now vended in the North American market are
fashioned of tempered soda lime glass, a cheaper material. (The
borosilicate glass version is still sold in Europe.)

And the "undetermined" claim that Corning swapped to soda glass in the
1990s is way out. Corning themselves changed to soda glass in the
1940s.

They said that, too...

....the brand's current owner, World Kitchen, claims that changeover began
back in the 1940s and long antedates Corning's 1998 sale of the brand:
The Charleroi [Pennsylvania] plant has produced PYREX glass products out
of a heat-strengthened (tempered) soda lime glass for about 60 years,
first by our predecessor Corning Incorporated...

On 14/03/2011 11:09, Bernard Peek wrote:


... The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention.

Maybe, but glass test-tubes and conical flasks have been used over
Bunsen burners for a very long time.

--
Reentrant

On Mar 14, 9:14*am, "john south" wrote:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. *I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

What a prat....

On Mar 14, 12:03*pm, Reentrant wrote:
On 14/03/2011 11:09, Bernard Peek wrote:



... The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention.

Maybe, but glass test-tubes and conical flasks have been used over
Bunsen burners for a very long time.

Your point being....?

On Mar 14, 9:14*am, "john south" wrote:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. *I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

However the wife doesn't think that these glass bowls should undergo this
kind of treatment on top of the gas rings.

Today using a smoky dark coloured glass bowl which I don't think I've used
before,
but I really thought it was an oven proofed bowl. It suddenly completely
collapsed into pieces as I placed it in the oven. What a mess.........

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? *Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. * * So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? * *Thanks.

Sorry to go off topic, and not wanting to hijack the thread, but why
did you do it? Was it to try to cut down on the time it would be in
the oven?

On 14/03/2011 09:14, john south wrote:

the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.


You should get an induction hob. They are idiot proof in that respect!

As students we learnt that pinching half pint jugs from the bar to make
coffee in was a waste of time. Though I recall someone having one that
did last for some time.


--
Michael Chare

On Mar 14, 10:00*am, Steve Firth wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

[snip]

Even soda-lime glass (used for most glass applications) shouldn't melt
in an ordinary domestic oven. Sometimes it's toughened - did it break
like a toughened windscreen shattering?

Please don't feed the troll.

I almost tagged that with [[WP:AGF]] and I don't share the "troll"
sentiment at all.

However AFAIK, Pyrex is borosilicate and should resist most attempts
at domestic heating, anything else that doesn't have specific labels
is assumed to be soda-lime and I wouldn't even think about heating it.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"john south" writes:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they use to
boil things in.

Pyrex doesn't imply a particular type of glass. Originally it was
borosilicate glass, but it's now just used as a well-known trade
name to sell various different types of glass. Different companies
use the name differently in different parts of the world.

Borosilicate glass tends to be used for higher temperature applications,
although I don't know what glass saucepans are made of.

Even soda-lime glass (used for most glass applications) shouldn't melt
in an ordinary domestic oven. Sometimes it's toughened - did it break
like a toughened windscreen shattering?

The key is the expansion rate. If one part is much hotter than another,
as can happen with gas when the bit with water in stays at 100C but eh
bit above water goes higher, thermal expansion can crack the top off in
a neat ring.


Pyrex is a low thermal coefficient of expansion glass. That's all.

So you can pour boiling water into it and it wont crack.

Reentrant wrote:
On 14/03/2011 11:09, Bernard Peek wrote:


... The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention.

Maybe, but glass test-tubes and conical flasks have been used over
Bunsen burners for a very long time.

Much thinner walls. less likely to crack.

On 3/14/2011 7:09 AM, Bernard Peek wrote:

I wouldn't do it. The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention. Pyrex has existed a lot longer than that.


Back in the 1950s, my mother had a Pyrex saucepan, complete with
detachable handle. It was used on a gas hob nearly every day for
decades. It _was_ sold as a saucepan. Her Pyrex bowls were were not
intended for direct heat cooking.

Adrian wrote:
Steve Firth gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

That page seems to have at least one error. The Pyrex sold in the UK is
all borosilicate, not soda glass.

They did say that...

That isn't, however, covered in their bullet points which don't seem to
match the reams of stuff below which appear to be on 6pt grey text.

S Viemeister wrote:
On 3/14/2011 7:09 AM, Bernard Peek wrote:

I wouldn't do it. The type of glass pan that can be put on direct
heat
is a comparatively new invention. Pyrex has existed a lot longer
than that.


Back in the 1950s, my mother had a Pyrex saucepan, complete with
detachable handle. It was used on a gas hob nearly every day for
decades. It _was_ sold as a saucepan. Her Pyrex bowls were were not
intended for direct heat cooking.

Exactly. It might even have a symbol or warning on the bottom of
that bowl that it's not to be used over an open flame.

nancy

In article , star09558
@mail.invalid says...

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure,
putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things?

Yes.

RTFM

http://www.pyrexware.com/index.asp?pageId=28

Janet

john south wrote:

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things?

Absolutely. Never put thick glass on a flame. Did you ever take
chem lab? The beakers and such that you place over a bunsen burner
are all thin glass.

Steve

On Mar 14, 1:20 pm, Michael Chare
wrote:
On 14/03/2011 09:14, john south wrote:



the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

You should get an induction hob. They are idiot proof in that respect!

and some steel/iron casseroles & pans...

Jim K

On Mar 14, 2:14*am, "john south" wrote:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to bring
them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

My question is not whether this was really an oven proofed glass dish, since
i guess we will never know for sure.

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? *Even though i always start
on
the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. * * So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? * *Thanks.

The heat stress from applying a flame to a glass bowl is much higher
because the high temperature is much higher: 3500F for a methane
flame vs 500 at most for the oven.

Pyrex made a "Visions" line of glass saucepans -- try to find one of
those.

Steve Pope wrote:
john south wrote:

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure,
putting a pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things?

Absolutely. Never put thick glass on a flame.

Um...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Visions-2-5L...0115322&sr=8-3


Did you ever take
chem lab? The beakers and such that you place over a bunsen burner
are all thin glass.

I think the type of glass has more to do with it. Clearly though, pyrex
*bowls* are not designed to be put directly on a flame.

Tim

In article c9b12c0a-14cd-4bb9-9455-
,
says...
Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's and
I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. They are now retro
items for collectors on eBay.


Wow - I remember them!

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:14:27 -0000, "john south"
wrote:

But is the wife right in saying this is a very *risky* procedure, putting a
pyrex glass bowl over a gas ring to boil things? Even though i always start
on the minimum heat so as to minimize any strains on the glass. So would
you think that this is safe to do, or not? Thanks.

I have a Pyrex double boiler, that is fine with that kind of heat -
but unless you're using laboratory grade material, risky is putting it
nicely. You do love living dangerously! I hope you're prepared for
some kitchen cleanup and a possible trip to the hospital if you
continue your half-witted practice of exposing home grade Pyrex bowls
to a flame.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

In article ,
says...
I have a Pyrex double boiler, that is fine with that kind of heat -
but unless you're using laboratory grade material, risky is putting it
nicely. You do love living dangerously! I hope you're prepared for
some kitchen cleanup and a possible trip to the hospital if you
continue your half-witted practice of exposing home grade Pyrex bowls
to a flame.


And if it's "new" Pyrex, don't bother anyway.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

therustyone wrote:

Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's and
I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. They are now retro
items for collectors on eBay.

I can pick up a set of three handled pots of assorted sizes
with lids from that series. I wonder if I should both?

Mark Thorson wrote:
therustyone wrote:
Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's and
I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. They are now retro
items for collectors on eBay.

I can pick up a set of three handled pots of assorted sizes
with lids from that series. I wonder if I should both?

After having tried just about every pot and pan ever made, I have
settled on Stellar stainless steel with aluminium billets in the bases.
These work well on gas, electric and the aga, and can be scrubbed clean
with wire wool when she burns the porridge (again)

Those, and a few le creuset slow cooking pots are all I use these days,.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

After having tried just about every pot and pan ever made, I have
settled on Stellar stainless steel with aluminium billets in the bases.
These work well on gas, electric and the aga, and can be scrubbed clean
with wire wool when she burns the porridge (again)

Those, and a few le creuset slow cooking pots are all I use these days,.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

After having tried just about every pot and pan ever made, I have
settled on Stellar stainless steel with aluminium billets in the bases.
These work well on gas, electric and the aga, and can be scrubbed clean
with wire wool when she burns the porridge (again)

Those, and a few le creuset slow cooking pots are all I use these days,.

For decades, everything I cooked came out of my big
cast iron pot. A few years ago, I bought a little
stainless steel pot which is mostly used for soup
and steamed rice. I haven't felt much need for anything
else until a few weeks ago when I bought a copper-clad
aluminum pan to use for roasting coffee. I haven't
used it for that yet, but works great on small batches
of sunflower and pumpkin seeds.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Reentrant wrote:

On 14/03/2011 11:09, Bernard Peek wrote:


... The type of glass pan that can be put on direct heat
is a comparatively new invention.

Maybe, but glass test-tubes and conical flasks have been used over Bunsen
burners for a very long time.

Relatively thin glass though. And I don't think you heat them up empty. Or
do you? - I heated a mixture of flowers of sulphur and potassium
permanganate in a test tube once on a little burner at home. Nothing much
happened for a while, then there was a "thunk" and all the mixture shot
out as a plug, through the window I'd left open just in case.

--
Tim


There is a difference between oven proof and flame proof. They are made
and tempered differently.

"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
...
therustyone wrote:

Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's and
I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. They are now retro
items for collectors on eBay.

I can pick up a set of three handled pots of assorted sizes
with lids from that series. I wonder if I should both?

Pass. They are horrid. My daughter gave us a couple of pieces and we
tossed one of the pots out in the trash with the burned on boiled potatoes
still in it.

Mark Thorson wrote:
therustyone wrote:

Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's
and I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. They are now
retro items for collectors on eBay.

I can pick up a set of three handled pots of assorted sizes
with lids from that series. I wonder if I should both?

I HATE those things! I got a free one when they first came out. I
don't recall now how I got it for free. I used it all of twice. The
first time it was just for heating up some sort of canned vegetable. I
didn't have a microwave yet. The second and the last time was to make a
single serving of macaroni and cheese. From scratch. Both times the food
burned and stuck to the pan. The mac and cheese was next to impossible to
clean out of that pan. So I threw it out.

More recently I tried using one at my parent's house. My mom doesn't cook
very often, doesn't have many pans and all of the ones she had were in use
except for that one. I was heating gravy from a box and once again, it
burned.

I should add that I am not one of those people who burns food very often.
Once in a while my rice will get too dry and it will stick a little to the
pan. I did get rice burned to the bottom of the pan once. And occasionally
I will burn a few pieces of popcorn. That has been all in the past probably
20 years or so.

When I was younger I did burn things a few times. I can't remember the
particulars now but I do remember using a method that I read about in some
book. Cover the burned food with baking powder (quite a bit of it) then
water then bring it to a boil. Let cool and most of the time the burned
food will scrape right out. Once in a while you'll have to repeat this.
This method has never failed me.

On 14/03/2011 13:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"john south" writes:
After preparing and partially boiling vegetables and meat, they were
then
put in a large glass bowl and it was placed on top of a gas hob to
bring them to
the boil. That was prior to placing it in the oven to make an oven
casserole.

This practice has been done by me quite a few times before. I've
always
assumed that a Pyrex bowl can be placed on a gas ring and the contents
boiled, because someone I know has Pyrex glass saucepans, that they
use to
boil things in.

Pyrex doesn't imply a particular type of glass. Originally it was
borosilicate glass, but it's now just used as a well-known trade
name to sell various different types of glass. Different companies
use the name differently in different parts of the world.

Borosilicate glass tends to be used for higher temperature applications,
although I don't know what glass saucepans are made of.

Even soda-lime glass (used for most glass applications) shouldn't melt
in an ordinary domestic oven. Sometimes it's toughened - did it break
like a toughened windscreen shattering?

The key is the expansion rate. If one part is much hotter than
another, as can happen with gas when the bit with water in stays at
100C but eh bit above water goes higher, thermal expansion can crack
the top off in a neat ring.


Pyrex is a low thermal coefficient of expansion glass. That's all.

So you can pour boiling water into it and it wont crack.

I was taught at a very early age that heating a beaker (borosilicate
glass) with the aid of a Bunsen burner needed a spreader under it to
diffuse the heat and spread it over a larger area . The spreader, as
most of you probably know was a 6ins square of wire mesh with a round
asbestos patch in the centre.
this prevented the flame ( very high temp) impinging directly as a point
source on the relatively cold bottom of the beaker with the obvious
consequences.
Don

On Mar 14, 7:57*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Mark Thorson" wrote in message

...

therustyone wrote:

Yellow glass pans (not ordinary pyrex) ere very common in the 90's and
I still have a yellow glass frying pan in use. *They are now retro
items for collectors on eBay.

I can pick up a set of three handled pots of assorted sizes
with lids from that series. *I wonder if I should both?

Pass. *They are horrid. *My daughter gave us a couple of pieces and we
tossed one of the pots out in the trash with the burned on boiled potatoes
still in it.

If the pot boiled dry, how was it the pot's fault?