Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam’s club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn’t have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it’s nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes. Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn’t a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn’t have power for about 48 hours.
In a larger disaster, I would find loud gas generators something
of an advertisement that you might not want to make. A small steam
plant would quietly let you continue without irking neighbors. That
might sound minor, but believe me, it’s not. In our typical housing
development, those who ran gas generators got shunned.
Something I used a whole lot: an inverter for the car that let us
have two 500 watt ac outlets for the computer and the gas fired water
heater. We have one of those new on-demand gas hot water heaters. It
needs a small amount of juice to both think and kick off the gas
burner. The inverter cost about 30 bucks at Sams. Best 30 bucks I ever
spent. Idling the car every once and a while was fine.
Thankfully we always had a phone line, so we kept internet
service, and with that up to date outside news. Our local news
station and the local paper was often not so good, probably because
the people writing and publishing it were having to deal with their
own problems.
Anyway, thanks again. You can post this on the RCM if you like.
I’ve not got a news server connection at the moment.

Charles Morrill

---
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

In a larger disaster, I would find loud gas generators something
of an advertisement that you might not want to make. A small steam
plant would quietly let you continue without irking neighbors. That
might sound minor, but believe me, it’s not. In our typical housing
development, those who ran gas generators got shunned.

A disaster usually makes lots of scrap wood availiable to run a steam
boiler, but it's often too wet or green to use.
You don't have to have a noisy generator, you can get a Honda that is
quiet enough to have a conversation alongside. The cheap generators are
VERY noisy.

--
Committees of Correspondence web page;
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

In article , Nick Hull wrote:
In article ,
Gunner wrote:

In a larger disaster, I would find loud gas generators something
of an advertisement that you might not want to make. A small steam
plant would quietly let you continue without irking neighbors. That
might sound minor, but believe me, it?s not. In our typical housing
development, those who ran gas generators got shunned.

A disaster usually makes lots of scrap wood availiable to run a steam
boiler, but it's often too wet or green to use.

even w/the steam unit, i would have a gas model on hand as well.

You don't have to have a noisy generator, you can get a Honda that is
quiet enough to have a conversation alongside. The cheap generators are
VERY noisy.

yes, _if_ being 'shunned' makes you a target, by all means get a
600w Honda, put it on rigid foam in the bathtub with the window open.
put the gas can in there, too. well, you might wait until there
is actually a _storm_. grin --Loren

Now, THAT is a real post! Thank you!

I've been trying to get an inverter setup to run my furnace, for much the
same reason as this fellow mentions.

In my housing project, I can hear a generator a couple houses away. No one
said anything to me about it when I ran a genny during the ice storm, but I
sure would have prefered an inverter and a battery I could charge with
jumper cables.

What items did you suggest at Sam's?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam's club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn't have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it's nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes. Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn't a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn't have power for about 48 hours.
In a larger disaster, I would find loud gas generators something
of an advertisement that you might not want to make. A small steam
plant would quietly let you continue without irking neighbors. That
might sound minor, but believe me, it's not. In our typical housing
development, those who ran gas generators got shunned.
Something I used a whole lot: an inverter for the car that let us
have two 500 watt ac outlets for the computer and the gas fired water
heater. We have one of those new on-demand gas hot water heaters. It
needs a small amount of juice to both think and kick off the gas
burner. The inverter cost about 30 bucks at Sams. Best 30 bucks I ever
spent. Idling the car every once and a while was fine.
Thankfully we always had a phone line, so we kept internet
service, and with that up to date outside news. Our local news
station and the local paper was often not so good, probably because
the people writing and publishing it were having to deal with their
own problems.
Anyway, thanks again. You can post this on the RCM if you like.
I've not got a news server connection at the moment.

Charles Morrill

---
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

In article , Gunner says...

In a larger disaster, I would find loud gas generators something
of an advertisement that you might not want to make. A small steam
plant would quietly let you continue without irking neighbors. That
might sound minor, but believe me, it’s not. In our typical housing
development, those who ran gas generators got shunned.

Hmm. Brings up a good point. Truism: quiet generators are
more expensive. But the noisy ones give you more watts/dollar.

I would like to be able to run the oil-fired boiler in my house
during a winter-time power outage (which runs off a 15 amp
ckt, not counting the surge loads), and possibly a refrigerator
during a summertime outage.

I had helped a friend resurrect an old Onan generator,
opposed twin that needed an unstuck valve, and also needed
to be re-wired a bit and have the field windings flashed
to get it to start. That generator runs at 1800 rpm
and is amazingly quite for 3 kw. Does *anyone* still
make 1800 rpm generators?

Next idea, buy a less expensive, noisy generator and
not worry about the noise because a) even though it
will be large enough to run the heating system in the
house, this will be done during the winter when
the garage is packed in snow. Maybe some foam insulation
as a sound barrier around the unit to help. Even
then it will only be run periodically to keep the
house from freezing. It's a detached garage btw,
so I could banish the unit away from the house.

During the summer such a generator would be well oversize
for running a light or two and the refrigerator, again
every few hours. I suspect that the noiser generators
are not too bad if just idling.

Something I used a whole lot: an inverter for the car that let us
have two 500 watt ac outlets for the computer and the gas fired water
heater.

Hmm. An inverter large enough to run the refrigerator. Intersting
idea. Must look into that, thanks. The 'internet as news'
concept makes perfect sense as well.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:

Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

Real mufflers cost real bucks- like a $150 for a 1200 watt portable
Makita.
So you're at Home Depot and see two gensets of similar output and one
is $150 more than the other...

-Carl

jim rozen wrote:
SNIP

Hmm. Brings up a good point. Truism: quiet generators are
more expensive. But the noisy ones give you more watts/dollar.

I would like to be able to run the oil-fired boiler in my house
during a winter-time power outage (which runs off a 15 amp
ckt, not counting the surge loads), and possibly a refrigerator
during a summertime outage.
SNIP

You might want to look at the Honda "EU" series. They have a
built-in inverter, which allows the engine to run at different speeds,
depending on the load. They also have wiring kits available that allow
you to connect 2 units in parallel.

I bought an EU2000 last year and like it very much. Very, very quiet
and small enough to toss in the truck (one-handed, even) if I need to
use power tools away from the house.

They are pricey. Also note that the model number indicates surge
power rating, not continuous (the EU2000 is rated at 1600W,
continuous)

Some more info:
http://www.mayberrys.com/honda/gener...tgenerator.htm

R,
Tom Q.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...


Hmm. An inverter large enough to run the refrigerator. Intersting
idea. Must look into that, thanks. The 'internet as news'
concept makes perfect sense as well.

Jim

It won't take you long to figure out how bad that idea is. What's the
wattage of a refrigerator, even a small one? Do the math and discover how
much amperage you'd have to pull from your battery to run the refrigerator.
Battery life would be very short.

Years ago I built a 12V generator for our boat, which had two small electric
refrigerators aboard. I added two batteries to the boat and had to run the
generator several hours each day to keep the batteries up. The
refrigerators pulled only 5½ amps each, but in the hot environment of Lake
Powell, they ran continually.

Harold

In article , Harold & Susan Vordos says...

It won't take you long to figure out how bad that idea is. What's the
wattage of a refrigerator, even a small one? Do the math and discover how
much amperage you'd have to pull from your battery to run the refrigerator.
Battery life would be very short.

The idea would be to a) run the truck at some speed above
idle, to b) supply 12 volts to a large inverter, so that
c) the refrigerator could run for a half hour, every
few hours or so. Kind of a stop-gap measure, I know.

The downside on this is, in the event of a large scale
power failure, it might be better to have the gas in the
truck instead of keeping the food cold.

The other trouble I see with generator units is, gas
powered ones have the fuel go stale. I would be planning
on eliminating that problem by using the fresh fuel in
'all those motorcycles' (wife's phrase) in the garage.

Keep the generator tank and carb empty until needed, then
simply tie into a fuel petcock on one of the bikes. I've
heard too many recent stories about generators that don't
on account of the carb being gummed up when it's needed.

The other possibility is the neighbor who inherited the
local radio station backup generator. They had a military
surplus willys go-devil motor that was mated to an Onan
generator. It's in quite rough shape and would need a
motor re-build and a maybe a generator re-wind. Plus
I would have to convince him to part with it, somehow.

But a nice 3 or 5 kW Honda unit is going for around
$2K or so right now. If I invested in the long term
strategy I might be able to have something in a shed
by the garage that would run the entire neighborhood.

But then again, do I really *want* something like that??

:^)

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:
Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

An inadequate muffler is only part of the problem. The engine
itself radiates a lot of noise. This is due to design and materials
choices made for the cheap air cooled engines. So while adding
a good muffler will help, it won't make as much difference as
you might desire.

This is particularly true for gensets like those sold under the
Coleman name, where they cut every corner to get the price
down.

There are small engines designed with noise control in mind.
Onan, Kohler, Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha all have engine
series designed for low noise. Yamaha in particular has about
the quietest "contractor package" available. The difference
between it and a Coleman (Briggs powered) is dramatic.

If you look at the engines, you'll notice that the low noise ones
have added stiffeners cast into the block and head, and the
fan shroud is double walled with sound deadening material
between the walls.

Toro specs a "quiet package" from Briggs for their engines.
It has the double wall construction, but doesn't have the head
and block stiffening ribs. It is quieter than an ordinary Briggs,
but still much noiser than the engines which also have the
added stiffening.

Gary

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold & Susan Vordos says...

It won't take you long to figure out how bad that idea is. What's the
wattage of a refrigerator, even a small one? Do the math and discover
how
much amperage you'd have to pull from your battery to run the
refrigerator.
Battery life would be very short.

The idea would be to a) run the truck at some speed above
idle, to b) supply 12 volts to a large inverter, so that
c) the refrigerator could run for a half hour, every
few hours or so. Kind of a stop-gap measure, I know.

The downside on this is, in the event of a large scale
power failure, it might be better to have the gas in the
truck instead of keeping the food cold.

The other trouble I see with generator units is, gas
powered ones have the fuel go stale. I would be planning
on eliminating that problem by using the fresh fuel in
'all those motorcycles' (wife's phrase) in the garage.

Keep the generator tank and carb empty until needed, then
simply tie into a fuel petcock on one of the bikes. I've
heard too many recent stories about generators that don't
on account of the carb being gummed up when it's needed.

The other possibility is the neighbor who inherited the
local radio station backup generator. They had a military
surplus willys go-devil motor that was mated to an Onan
generator. It's in quite rough shape and would need a
motor re-build and a maybe a generator re-wind. Plus
I would have to convince him to part with it, somehow.

But a nice 3 or 5 kW Honda unit is going for around
$2K or so right now. If I invested in the long term
strategy I might be able to have something in a shed
by the garage that would run the entire neighborhood.

But then again, do I really *want* something like that??

Back in the 1900's they used to jack up on side of the model A
and attach a hub the blted to the wooden spokes to run such things
as washing machines and buzz saws. Would the be possible to do
with todays cars? Some kind of bolt on to the driving wheels that
could then be belted to a generator. Ofcourse you wouldn't want
to do this to some gas hog.

B

"Bernd" wrote in message
...
Back in the 1900's they used to jack up on side of the model A
and attach a hub the blted to the wooden spokes to run such things
as washing machines and buzz saws. Would the be possible to do
with todays cars? Some kind of bolt on to the driving wheels that
could then be belted to a generator. Ofcourse you wouldn't want
to do this to some gas hog.

Heck, make a little dynamometer(?)-like dealie where you drive up onto
it, put chocks under the other wheels, and rev up the engine. It could
have a shaft going to other things, or just an alternator or something...

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:20:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:



Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam’s club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn’t have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it’s nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes.
(snip)
Charles Morrill

Not the supplies of the people who prepared properly.

Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn’t a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn’t have power for about 48 hours.

Shouldn't be too hard to stockpile enough gas to run a generator for 48 hours.
It would probably be less work than setting up a steam engine. Not that I'd say
a steam engine is a bad thing. It just doesn't look like a better solution for
everybody wanting to generate their own electricity in an emergency.

(snip)



It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

"Noah Simoneaux" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:20:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:



Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam's club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn't have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it's nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes.
(snip)
Charles Morrill

Not the supplies of the people who prepared properly.

Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn't a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn't have power for about 48 hours.

Shouldn't be too hard to stockpile enough gas to run a generator for 48
hours.
It would probably be less work than setting up a steam engine. Not that
I'd say
a steam engine is a bad thing. It just doesn't look like a better solution
for
everybody wanting to generate their own electricity in an emergency.

(snip)



It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred
Adler

Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the ground and pipe your
exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit. ( of course haveing an outlet
pipe out of the drum).

Thank you for the explanation Gary. I have a Honda 5HP on my
generator and I think I'll do some experimenting before I go and do
anything elaborate in terms of routing exhaust down a tube.

--George

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:54:24 -0400, Gary Coffman
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:
Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

An inadequate muffler is only part of the problem. The engine
itself radiates a lot of noise. This is due to design and materials
choices made for the cheap air cooled engines. So while adding
a good muffler will help, it won't make as much difference as
you might desire.

This is particularly true for gensets like those sold under the
Coleman name, where they cut every corner to get the price
down.

There are small engines designed with noise control in mind.
Onan, Kohler, Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha all have engine
series designed for low noise. Yamaha in particular has about
the quietest "contractor package" available. The difference
between it and a Coleman (Briggs powered) is dramatic.

If you look at the engines, you'll notice that the low noise ones
have added stiffeners cast into the block and head, and the
fan shroud is double walled with sound deadening material
between the walls.

Toro specs a "quiet package" from Briggs for their engines.
It has the double wall construction, but doesn't have the head
and block stiffening ribs. It is quieter than an ordinary Briggs,
but still much noiser than the engines which also have the
added stiffening.

Gary

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear

Carl Byrns wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:

Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

Real mufflers cost real bucks- like a $150 for a 1200 watt portable
Makita.
So you're at Home Depot and see two gensets of similar output and one
is $150 more than the other...

-Carl

Speaking of steam - how about you metal heads building up a nice
sized Sterling engine to rotate a generator?? :- )

_-_-bear

Noah Simoneaux wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:20:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:



Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam’s club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn’t have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it’s nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes.
(snip)
Charles Morrill

Not the supplies of the people who prepared properly.

Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn’t a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn’t have power for about 48 hours.

Shouldn't be too hard to stockpile enough gas to run a generator for 48 hours.
It would probably be less work than setting up a steam engine. Not that I'd say
a steam engine is a bad thing. It just doesn't look like a better solution for
everybody wanting to generate their own electricity in an emergency.

(snip)

It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:38 -0500, "Bill Bright"
said:


"Noah Simoneaux" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:20:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:



Dear gunner,
From an email today....


Some time ago you mentioned some disaster preparedness tips on the
metalworking news group and I just wanted to write and say thanks.
Thanks.
When hurricane Isabel came through Charlottesville Virginia we
had quite a time but thanks in part to some of your posts my family
and I were somewhat ready. I had taken your suggestion and stocked up
on a number of items you listed that Sam's club had and we lived on
them for a bit.
Though we live in a small city, we didn't have power for about
five days: enough time for refrigeration to become a distant memory.
My wife laughed when I bought all the canned stuff but it's nearly all
gone now. Stocking up on water also proved to be a good thing.
I had some additional thoughts that you might find interesting:
The idea of a small steam plant/ generator has a whole lot more
appeal now for a reason I did not expect. Steam power is quiet
whereas portable gas generators make a whole lot of noise. Also, in a
real disaster, the supplies of gas are going to last about five
minutes.
(snip)
Charles Morrill

Not the supplies of the people who prepared properly.

Here in Charlottesville, we never ran out of gas, but there
wasn't a whole lot of power to pump it either. Most of the city
didn't have power for about 48 hours.

Shouldn't be too hard to stockpile enough gas to run a generator for 48
hours.
It would probably be less work than setting up a steam engine. Not that
I'd say
a steam engine is a bad thing. It just doesn't look like a better solution
for
everybody wanting to generate their own electricity in an emergency.

(snip)



It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred
Adler

Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the ground and pipe your
exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit. ( of course haveing an outlet
pipe out of the drum).

I once fitted together enough pipe fitting adapters to weld a large
car muffler to a brigs 5hp genset. It cut the noise by almost 60%.
YMMV.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:38 -0500, "Bill Bright"
wrote:

***snip***

Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the ground and pipe your
exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit. ( of course haveing an outlet
pipe out of the drum).

What a marvelous idea! A giant muffler.

Even if it didn't completely quieten the sound it would make it hard
to locate.

Strider

On 11 Oct 2003 07:36:54 -0700, jim rozen
pixelated:

Hmm. An inverter large enough to run the refrigerator. Intersting
idea. Must look into that, thanks. The 'internet as news'
concept makes perfect sense as well.

When I picked up a Kill-A-Watt meter earlier this year, I ran
around the house checking usage. My new 21 c/f fridge takes
just 134 watts...with the door open and the pump running.

UFR!

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 11 Oct 2003 07:36:54 -0700, jim rozen
pixelated:

Hmm. An inverter large enough to run the refrigerator. Intersting
idea. Must look into that, thanks. The 'internet as news'
concept makes perfect sense as well.

When I picked up a Kill-A-Watt meter earlier this year, I ran
around the house checking usage. My new 21 c/f fridge takes
just 134 watts...with the door open and the pump running.

UFR!

That would be just over 11 amps @ 12V. if there were no other losses.
Starting wattage, however, would be much higher, if only briefly. Deep
cycle batteries might enjoy being used that way---especially if only
intermittently like Jim suggested

Harold

Bill Bright wrote: Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the
ground and pipe your exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably would, but I don't think I would bother. First off, as has been
pointed out earlier, a large part of the noise comes from the outside of the
engine, not from the exhaust. I have one of those less expensive Coleman
generators, with an open pipe frame, and, yes it is noisy. But, the first
time I used it in a power failure, my neighbors were all puzzled by the fact
that I was the only one with the lights on. The inverse square law applies
to sound, as well as all other energy radiation phenomena. Distance is your
friend. My generator is loud when you stand next to it, but it is just
barely audible from inside the house, and evidently inaudible in the
neighbors houses.

Also, I have never had anyone express resentment at the fact that I was
running it and had power when they didn't.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:14:35 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


Bill Bright wrote: Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the
ground and pipe your exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably would, but I don't think I would bother. First off, as has been
pointed out earlier, a large part of the noise comes from the outside of the
engine, not from the exhaust. I have one of those less expensive Coleman
generators, with an open pipe frame, and, yes it is noisy. But, the first
time I used it in a power failure, my neighbors were all puzzled by the fact
that I was the only one with the lights on. The inverse square law applies
to sound, as well as all other energy radiation phenomena. Distance is your
friend. My generator is loud when you stand next to it, but it is just
barely audible from inside the house, and evidently inaudible in the
neighbors houses.

Also, I have never had anyone express resentment at the fact that I was
running it and had power when they didn't.

I wonder if they might have acted differently had they and their
families had actually been in fear of their lives.

Strider

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:07:55 GMT, Strider wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:14:35 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


Bill Bright wrote: Ive been told that if you bury a 55 gallon drum in the
ground and pipe your exaust into it, it will quiten down a bit (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably would, but I don't think I would bother. First off, as has been
pointed out earlier, a large part of the noise comes from the outside of the
engine, not from the exhaust. I have one of those less expensive Coleman
generators, with an open pipe frame, and, yes it is noisy. But, the first
time I used it in a power failure, my neighbors were all puzzled by the fact
that I was the only one with the lights on. The inverse square law applies
to sound, as well as all other energy radiation phenomena. Distance is your
friend. My generator is loud when you stand next to it, but it is just
barely audible from inside the house, and evidently inaudible in the
neighbors houses.

Also, I have never had anyone express resentment at the fact that I was
running it and had power when they didn't.

I wonder if they might have acted differently had they and their
families had actually been in fear of their lives.

Strider

Or it was 5 days and the food in the freezer was turning to ooze.

Gunner

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Any suggestions on the type of muffler?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:48:53 -0400, BEAR wrote:

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:48:53 -0400, BEAR wrote:

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear


Sort of.
The muffler will knock down the exhaust noise, but engine still makes
all sorts of mechanical sounds. The cooling fins tend to broadcast
those sounds.
Been there, done that.

-Carl

Big cheap car muffler

On the 40 acres that I share with my brother in a remote spot in
Michigan's U.P., we came up with a simple way to quiet our generator in
an otherwise very quiet surrounding - dig a hole in the ground about 4
feet deep & drop the whole thing in the hole. The noise mostly goes
straight up & not so loud in a radial pattern. I suppose adding a better
muffler would make it better yet...


BEAR wrote:
Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear

Carl Byrns wrote:


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:


Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

Real mufflers cost real bucks- like a $150 for a 1200 watt portable
Makita.
So you're at Home Depot and see two gensets of similar output and one
is $150 more than the other...

-Carl

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:50:32 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:07:55 GMT, Strider wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:14:35 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

Also, I have never had anyone express resentment at the fact that I was
running it and had power when they didn't.

I wonder if they might have acted differently had they and their
families had actually been in fear of their lives.

Strider

Or it was 5 days and the food in the freezer was turning to ooze.

There wouldn't be any resentment in those cases, either, but your
generator would mysteriously disappear.

--
"And I can't describe how I felt when I picked up that rifle,
loaded it into my little car, and drove home. It seemed so
incredibly strange: Sarah Brady, of all people, packing heat."
- source: "A Good Fight", Sarah Brady, chapter 21, page 223
of first edition hardback, ISBN 1-58648-105-3

In article , Strider says...

I wonder if they might have acted differently had they and their
families had actually been in fear of their lives.

I heard this argument and it does not quite make sense.

First off my neighbors would be happy to hear a genset
running in my garage, if it were winter and there was
an extensive power outage. Because that would mean
that after I ran my boiler, we could run a line to
each of their houses, and run theirs, each in turn.

If you are worried that the sound of the genset means
they would be an attraction for looters, most of
my neighbors are pretty well armed. I think they
would be more worried about their house pipes freezing.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:40:51 -0400, Rex Tincher wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:50:32 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:07:55 GMT, Strider wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:14:35 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

Also, I have never had anyone express resentment at the fact that I was
running it and had power when they didn't.

I wonder if they might have acted differently had they and their
families had actually been in fear of their lives.

Strider

Or it was 5 days and the food in the freezer was turning to ooze.

There wouldn't be any resentment in those cases, either, but your
generator would mysteriously disappear.

Not if you secured it properly.
I've thought for years that survivalists might be caught between a rock and a
hard place if bad times ever do come. People do not always(?) behave rationally.
It would't make much sense for them to resent you if you were surviving fairly
comfortably and they weren't, even if you had tried to warn them before. Many
times, when survivalists try to tell people they should prepare, people treat
them like they(the survivalists) are the fools. Of course, they wouldn't want to
be reminded later that they ignored what turned out to be good advice. People in
that situation aren't usually very receptive to any "I told you so's",
especially if they're hungry, cold, worried, etc. It's hard to reason with a
hungry man.

It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

BEAR wrote:

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear

Carl Byrns wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:19 GMT, George wrote:

Why is it that the home generators are so loud? Is it that the
backpressure of a real muffler is too great? I've heard of people who
put better mufflers and even tubing to route the exhaust out of the
garage or where ever and they said they were happy.

Real mufflers cost real bucks- like a $150 for a 1200 watt portable
Makita.
So you're at Home Depot and see two gensets of similar output and one
is $150 more than the other...

-Carl
Look at how the thing is constructed. Can the mountings stand extra weight?
You may have to go the flex tubing route. A friend of mine tried a bigger
muffler and ripped the bolts out of the head and had all sorts of fun
fixing it. 8o(
--
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:48:53 -0400, BEAR wrote:

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear


Sort of.
The muffler will knock down the exhaust noise, but engine still makes
all sorts of mechanical sounds. The cooling fins tend to broadcast
those sounds.
Been there, done that.

-Carl

Absolutely true, an experience learned when I built the boat generator. I
used an 8 horse Kohler electric start engine, which I converted to a water
cooled engine by machining a new head and installing a stainless band around
the cooling fins after major alteration on a rotary table. The engine ran
much quieter once converted to water cooling.

Harold

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:08:31 -0700, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


Absolutely true, an experience learned when I built the boat generator. I
used an 8 horse Kohler electric start engine, which I converted to a water
cooled engine by machining a new head and installing a stainless band around
the cooling fins after major alteration on a rotary table. The engine ran
much quieter once converted to water cooling.

Harold


Harold, do you have any pictures of your conversion?
I've though about doing something similar but keeping the valve area
cool looks to be a cast-iron bitch.

-Carl

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:25:00 GMT, George wrote:
Any suggestions on the type of muffler?

Big old luxury car muffler. Anything designed for an older V8 Cadillac
would be great. Low backpressure and plenty of sound dampening.

Gary

keith bowers wrote:

BEAR wrote:

Nah.

You only need a length of black pipe, some other fittings,
and maybe even a nice large general purpose off the shelf
heavy equipment muffler, and wham! Quiet.

You can use a random muffler from a junk yard if you are
feeling really cheap...

_-_-bear

snip



-Carl
Look at how the thing is constructed. Can the mountings stand extra weight?
You may have to go the flex tubing route. A friend of mine tried a bigger
muffler and ripped the bolts out of the head and had all sorts of fun
fixing it. 8o(
--
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

Hey!

This is a metalworking group, one can assume that you'd know to add some
appropriate support, as required.

Many years ago I did a composite of the hole in ground trick, AND the pipe
w/muffler trick to quiet the generators at an underground/impromptu
rock concert out in a field.

I found a whole lot of 20 ft lengths of pipe under a bungalo, put bales of hay
in a 4ft high ring around the generators (sufficiently wide placement - like
6ft plus clearances) - ran the pipe from the exhaust outlet through a hole
cleared in the hay bales, then attached the stock mufflers at the end of the
20 ft pipe... quite much quieter, thank you...

From what I remember, the concert was fun... and the gens had no
problem...

:- )

I don't want to admit how many years back that was... geez.

_-_-bear

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:08:31 -0700, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


Absolutely true, an experience learned when I built the boat generator.
I
used an 8 horse Kohler electric start engine, which I converted to a
water
cooled engine by machining a new head and installing a stainless band
around
the cooling fins after major alteration on a rotary table. The engine
ran
much quieter once converted to water cooling.

Harold


Harold, do you have any pictures of your conversion?
I've though about doing something similar but keeping the valve area
cool looks to be a cast-iron bitch.

-Carl

Indeed I do! I was quite proud of how the engine turned out, it and the
miniature water cooled muffler and exhaust system, too. I even made a small
water pump. If you'd like to receive some photos, please contact me on
the side and I'll do my best to copy them from the photo album and send them
to you.

Harold

Carl Byrns wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:08:31 -0700, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

Absolutely true, an experience learned when I built the boat generator. I
used an 8 horse Kohler electric start engine, which I converted to a water
cooled engine by machining a new head and installing a stainless band around
the cooling fins after major alteration on a rotary table. The engine ran
much quieter once converted to water cooling.

Harold


Harold, do you have any pictures of your conversion?
I've though about doing something similar but keeping the valve area
cool looks to be a cast-iron bitch.

-Carl

Pictures. Post pictures Harold. Please? I have also thought of doing a gen that I
have here at the shop. That, and an auger.g

michael

"michael" wrote in message
...
Carl Byrns wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:08:31 -0700, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

Absolutely true, an experience learned when I built the boat generator.
I
used an 8 horse Kohler electric start engine, which I converted to a
water
cooled engine by machining a new head and installing a stainless band
around
the cooling fins after major alteration on a rotary table. The
engine ran
much quieter once converted to water cooling.

Harold


Harold, do you have any pictures of your conversion?
I've though about doing something similar but keeping the valve area
cool looks to be a cast-iron bitch.

-Carl

Pictures. Post pictures Harold. Please? I have also thought of doing a gen
that I
have here at the shop. That, and an auger.g

michael


Way to go, Michael. Expose me for the idiot I am! I have absolutely no
clue how to post pictures here. I'm not sure I'm even smart enough to do
it with guidance, but I'm open to suggestion.

You and that damned auger! What is it, you never seen any 17-4 stainless
machined? vbg

H