Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At £22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

AWEM

On Feb 23, 4:12*pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' *in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At 22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

AWEM

couldnt you just shutter a couple of concrete pads either side to take
the sleepers? they would last longer as well as theyre not on earth so
not sodden all the time

On 23/02/2011 16:12, Andrew Mawson wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.


Crossing timbers were normally 12" x 6", and ordinary sleepers 10" x 5",
but ordinary sleepers are only 8ft6in long.

I wonder whether they really are railway sleepers, or just big lumps of
wood that the suppliers are calling sleepers. I don't recall seeing oak
used - and I saw plenty of chopped up sleepers when I used to
investigate derailments. Jarrah was the common hardwood.

Concrete sleepers used to be available virtually free, as many were
scrapped when the pandrol fastener housings worked loose. But you
really do need mechanical handling for them.


--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. )****

On Feb 23, 4:12 pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At 22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

AWEM

creosoted oak??
where was the bloke/lorry from?
windering if "your man" had ever seen/touched/measured them....

Jim K

On Feb 23, 4:39 pm, Staffbull wrote:
On Feb 23, 4:12 pm, "Andrew Mawson"



wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At 22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

AWEM

couldnt you just shutter a couple of concrete pads either side to take
the sleepers? they would last longer as well as theyre not on earth so
not sodden all the time

(think it's the total width that;s the prob not the length/span)

Jim K

In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At £22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

Not to answer if you were short-changed or not, but you could lay
them with half inch gaps between which might help drainage, and
also recover almost half the lost width.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/02/11 16:12, Andrew Mawson wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.


At £22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

If you ordered 20 and the average is 10% below the stated size then I
don't think it's reasonable. If the seller knows they vary then they
should have made sure that the average width was at least what they claimed.



--
Bernard Peek

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered
20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm
wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up
in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm
not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge
span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is
actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At £22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise.
Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English,
couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry
and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to
unload
him with my forklift.

Not to answer if you were short-changed or not, but you could lay
them with half inch gaps between which might help drainage, and
also recover almost half the lost width.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Yes Andrew, the original design was to lay 280mm sleepers with a 20mm
gap making a 'going' per sleeper of 300mm. Don't want to make the gap
any bigger than that. I can overcome the issue by increasing the
concrete pads at each end of the bridge, but it hacks me off that what
is supplied is not to the spec they advertise !

AWEM

On 23/02/2011 in message Bernard Peek
wrote:

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.

DSR are for people who change their mind about wanting something. Assuming
the OP is a Consumer it's the Sale of Goods Act that is relevant.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

On 23/02/11 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/02/2011 in message Bernard Peek
wrote:

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.

DSR are for people who change their mind about wanting something.
Assuming the OP is a Consumer it's the Sale of Goods Act that is relevant.

The rights under DSR are effectively absolute. Buyers can use them for
any reason they please. But they only apply for a limited period after
the date of delivery. After that the buyer can still try to apply SoGA
but the supplier can argue about it. Under DSR they don't have any
choice but to accept the goods back and refund the entire cost including
carriage both ways. If the OP has bought the goods in the course of
running a business then different rules apply.

The shortfall seems to be approximately equal to two sleepers. Would the
seller agree to supplying two more FoC instead of having to pay for
return shipping for the 20?



--
Bernard Peek

On 23/02/2011 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/02/2011 in message Bernard Peek
wrote:

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.

DSR are for people who change their mind about wanting something.

They are to allow people to reject something once they have had the same
opportunity to inspect the goods as they would have had if buying in a
shop. That would appear to be exactly the case here.

Assuming the OP is a Consumer it's the Sale of Goods Act that is relevant.

In this case, both are applicable, unless the OP is *not* a consumer, in
which case only the Sale of Goods Act applies. Rejecting under the DSRs
is simpler than under the SoGA.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:15:13 +0000, Bernard Peek
wrote:

On 23/02/11 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/02/2011 in message Bernard Peek
wrote:

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.

DSR are for people who change their mind about wanting something.
Assuming the OP is a Consumer it's the Sale of Goods Act that is relevant.

The rights under DSR are effectively absolute. Buyers can use them for
any reason they please. But they only apply for a limited period after
the date of delivery. After that the buyer can still try to apply SoGA
but the supplier can argue about it. Under DSR they don't have any
choice but to accept the goods back and refund the entire cost including
carriage both ways.

The Distance Selling Regulations don't include paying for, or making a
refund of, return carriage costs if the seller has specified that they
won't in their terms and conditions, unless the goods are faulty.

This is very clearly explained in the OFT guide.

Sections 3.55, 3.56, 3.57

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf


--

On Feb 23, 6:30 pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:15:13 +0000, Bernard Peek
wrote:



On 23/02/11 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/02/2011 in message Bernard Peek
wrote:

You can probably use the Distance Selling Regulations to reject them if
you want to. This is just the situation they were created for. The
seller will have to bear all of the costs.

DSR are for people who change their mind about wanting something.
Assuming the OP is a Consumer it's the Sale of Goods Act that is relevant.

The rights under DSR are effectively absolute. Buyers can use them for
any reason they please. But they only apply for a limited period after
the date of delivery. After that the buyer can still try to apply SoGA
but the supplier can argue about it. Under DSR they don't have any
choice but to accept the goods back and refund the entire cost including
carriage both ways.

The Distance Selling Regulations don't include paying for, or making a
refund of, return carriage costs if the seller has specified that they
won't in their terms and conditions, unless the goods are faulty.


agreed.
(& well known by ebay scammers and used to frustrate use of the DSR
regs on low value (ebay!?) items, when cost of returning items in the
prescribed manner may approach the value of the item... so it still
costs YOU even though you have nothing to show for it at the end (and
that's assuming they refund you without further argument))

Worth a moan/conversation though....

Jim K

In article
,
Jim K wrote:

(& well known by ebay scammers and used to frustrate use of the DSR
regs on low value (ebay!?) items, when cost of returning items in the
prescribed manner may approach the value of the item... so it still
costs YOU even though you have nothing to show for it at the end (and
that's assuming they refund you without further argument))

Worth a moan/conversation though....

I agree with Jim he definitely worth a moan on the phone: you never
know: the guy might be a reasonable chap ... negotiate on the price of
two more, etc. (even though he should provide two FOC).



Andrew: I would *LOVE* to be able to say two of the things that you have
said:

Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house.

and

I ended up having to unload him with my forklift.

Lucky sod! :-)

John

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

Noting the other replies about rejecting them under the DSR, ISTM that you
are two sleepers short. If the supplier supplied you with two more sleepers
free would you be happy with that solution?

It will be much easier all round that trying to return 20 sleepers.

tim

"Another John" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

(& well known by ebay scammers and used to frustrate use of the
DSR
regs on low value (ebay!?) items, when cost of returning items in
the
prescribed manner may approach the value of the item... so it
still
costs YOU even though you have nothing to show for it at the end
(and
that's assuming they refund you without further argument))

Worth a moan/conversation though....

I agree with Jim he definitely worth a moan on the phone: you
never
know: the guy might be a reasonable chap ... negotiate on the price
of
two more, etc. (even though he should provide two FOC).



Andrew: I would *LOVE* to be able to say two of the things that you
have
said:

Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house.

and

I ended up having to unload him with my forklift.

Lucky sod! :-)

John

It was the lack of concern from them following a telephone moan that
prompted me to post here. Still waiting for a call back 'to sort it'
As others have said, a couple more sleepers would solve the problem,
but I can re-jig the design to work with what I've received.
Annoyingly I have quite a few ordinary 8'6" sleepers arround the farm,
but no longer 'crossing sleepers' like the ones in question.

As for streams & forklifts - I retired to here so I could play, and
play I do!!!!

AWEM

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:25:35 +0000, Another John wrote:

Andrew: I would *LOVE* to be able to say two of the things that you have
said:

Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house.

You might not be so keen when the nice little babbling brook was a
rageing torrent comeing in the back door and out the front... B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Feb 23, 4:12*pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' *in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At 22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

AWEM

Space them apart by 10mm or so. They will last longer as they will
dry out better.

In article 23329185-3ab7-4d40-b2ab-cab8e4a87d80
@w6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...
Space them apart by 10mm or so. They will last longer as they will
dry out better.

I'd aim for nearer an inch. 3/8" will clog up very quickly with bits of
gravel and the like.


--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 2011-02-23 16:12:13 +0000, Andrew Mawson said:

Replacing a bridge over a stream at the back of the house. Ordered 20
'railway crossing timbers' in oak creosoted, 3M long by 280mm wide by
150mm thick having discussed my needs with the chap supplying up in
Corby.

They arrived yesterday, but now I measure them they are all 250mm not
280mm in width, meaning I'm 20 x 30 = 600mm short on my bridge span. I
can probably get round this problem as part of the span is actually on
earth, but should I have to.

At £22 plus vat plus carriage each this was not a cheap exercise. Am I
being naive expecting them to be the right size, or is their
explanation that 'they do vary' reasonable?

Didn't help that the chap delivering, who spoke no English, couldn't
unload them with his hi-ab as they were at the back of the lorry and
at that reach were over weight - it kept alarming. They were steel
banded together so not easily separable. I ended up having to unload
him with my forklift.

No help, sorry, but when I got 20 brand new oak sleepers delivered
fairly recently I also found that the driver couldn't unload them as
his tail lift wouldn't take the weight, and they wouldn't fit through
the rear anyway :-(. The supplier assured the delivery company that I
would have two strong blokes to help, which I didn't. I don't have a
forklift either, so :-( again, and we had to slide the sleepers off
the stack one by one onto a hastily assembled bed of old pallets.
Bloody hard work.

I do have a couple of streams though, so :-).