I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs cloakroom.
They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n' snap, but
never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop across a piece
of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a red colour. Looked
a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of holes in them, and boy
oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever come across. I started, as
ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill, expecting that to rip through with a
minimum of effort, but it really struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it
quite badly, when I withdrew it from the tile at about half way through. The
gearbox on the drill was red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ?
Any tips to improve the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler and
siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in a
generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this for, and
should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think, be below the
full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't actually see where
the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I guess it must be at the
top somewhere, near to where the float valve lever operates. Just for sport,
I tried blowing into the inlet at the bottom, With the float pushed up, you
can't blow into it at all, as you would expect. However, with the float
down, you can blow into it - but only just. Is this normal for this type of
vertical filler mech ?

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom. They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n'
snap, but never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop
across a piece of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a
red colour. Looked a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of
holes in them, and boy oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever
come across. I started, as ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill,
expecting that to rip through with a minimum of effort, but it really
struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it quite badly, when I withdrew
it from the tile at about half way through. The gearbox on the drill was
red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ? Any tips to improve
the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in
a generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this
for, and should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think,
be below the full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't
actually see where the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I
guess it must be at the top somewhere, near to where the float valve
lever operates. Just for sport, I tried blowing into the inlet at the
bottom, With the float pushed up, you can't blow into it at all, as you
would expect. However, with the float down, you can blow into it - but
only just. Is this normal for this type of vertical filler mech ?

Arfa


Very small diamond core bits, build a dam with putty round hole and fill
with water.
similar to this.

http://www.amazon.com/DIAMOND-DRILL-.../dp/B000JKV1SG

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 02:51:53 -0000, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in a
generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this for, and
should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think, be below the
full water level, if it is just left to dangle.

It is, maybe, a tube to run a bit of water through the overflow tube into the
bend at the bottom of the pan, to refill it completely. Common in the US...

He
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/newly-installed-toilet-no-water-through-rim-holes-532286.html

and on that page, particularly
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/a/34345d1291753319-newly-installed-toilet-no-water-through-rim-holes-fluidmaster-20ballcock.gif?stc=1


Thomas Prufer

On Feb 7, 2:51*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs cloakroom..
They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n' snap, but
never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop across a piece
of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a red colour. Looked
a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of holes in them, and boy
oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever come across. I started, as
ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill, expecting that to rip through with a
minimum of effort, but it really struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it
quite badly, when I withdrew it from the tile at about half way through. The
gearbox on the drill was red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ?
Any tips to improve the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler and
siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in a
generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this for, and
should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think, be below the
full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't actually see where
the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I guess it must be at the
top somewhere, near to where the float valve lever operates. Just for sport,
I tried blowing into the inlet at the bottom, With the float pushed up, you
can't blow into it at all, as you would expect. However, with the float
down, you can blow into it - but only just. Is this normal for this type of
vertical filler mech ?

Arfa

With these new ultra small cisterns for low volume flushes there isn't
much room for the conventional syphon& float valve. However all this
new stuff is unreliable **** IME. The filler is "pilot operated". It
works on the same principle as an electric solenoid valve, ie there
is a diaphragm with two tiny holes that lets water in and out to close
the supply. Ie the mains pressure does the work. This why there's
such a tiny float.
If you can ditch all of it and fit conventional stuff you will be
better off IME.

On 07/02/2011 02:51, Arfa Daily wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom. They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n'
snap, but never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop
across a piece of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a
red colour. Looked a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of
holes in them, and boy oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever
come across. I started, as ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill,
expecting that to rip through with a minimum of effort, but it really
struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it quite badly, when I withdrew
it from the tile at about half way through. The gearbox on the drill was
red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ?

The tiles in my bathroom were similar. I ended up cutting the to size
with an angle grinder (true)

Any tips to improve
the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I had no problem using diamond tipped glass drills.

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in
a generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this
for, and should it be left to just dangle ?

It is the water inlet to the cistern, it reduces the noise of filling
and it should just dangle. Because it is flexible, any suction, which
could, theoretically, draw water back into the main will collapse the
tube instead. I suspect that, if it is mains fed, it probably ought to
have a double check valve as well these days.

The open end will, I think,
be below the full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't
actually see where the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I
guess it must be at the top somewhere, near to where the float valve
lever operates. Just for sport, I tried blowing into the inlet at the
bottom, With the float pushed up, you can't blow into it at all, as you
would expect. However, with the float down, you can blow into it - but
only just. Is this normal for this type of vertical filler mech ?

It probably has an internal nozzle that is set for high pressure (i.e.
mains) water. If you are running it off a header cistern in the loft,
there ought to be a low pressure nozzle in the kit with which to replace it.

Colin Bignell

"F Murtz" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom. They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n'
snap, but never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop
across a piece of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a
red colour. Looked a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of
holes in them, and boy oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever
come across. I started, as ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill,
expecting that to rip through with a minimum of effort, but it really
struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it quite badly, when I withdrew
it from the tile at about half way through. The gearbox on the drill was
red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ? Any tips to improve
the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in
a generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this
for, and should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think,
be below the full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't
actually see where the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I
guess it must be at the top somewhere, near to where the float valve
lever operates. Just for sport, I tried blowing into the inlet at the
bottom, With the float pushed up, you can't blow into it at all, as you
would expect. However, with the float down, you can blow into it - but
only just. Is this normal for this type of vertical filler mech ?

Arfa


Very small diamond core bits, build a dam with putty round hole and fill
with water.
similar to this.

http://www.amazon.com/DIAMOND-DRILL-.../dp/B000JKV1SG


I have done this before to drill glass etc, but in the case of these tiles,
it's not an option, as they are already on the wall, and the holes are
required for hanging accessories such as bog-roll holder, towel rail etc.
It's not a *big* deal - they do drill after a fashion - and once I was
through, bigger drills, although still slower than normal when being used to
open up the pilot hole, did the job without *too* much fuss. I was just
interested really to see if others had come across such hard tiles. I don't
recall having used any from Spain before, nor any with a red base material,
rather than white.

Arfa

"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 02:51:53 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in a
generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this for,
and
should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think, be below
the
full water level, if it is just left to dangle.

It is, maybe, a tube to run a bit of water through the overflow tube into
the
bend at the bottom of the pan, to refill it completely. Common in the
US...

He
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/newly-installed-toilet-no-water-through-rim-holes-532286.html

and on that page, particularly
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/a/34345d1291753319-newly-installed-toilet-no-water-through-rim-holes-fluidmaster-20ballcock.gif?stc=1


Thomas Prufer

Thanks for that. There is no obviously designed place for that tube to go in
the water discharge tower, but several places that it could be put. It
certainly seems to come from the area on the fill tower that the one in that
diagram is shown to be.

Arfa

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 2:51 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom.
They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n' snap, but
never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop across a
piece
of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a red colour.
Looked
a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of holes in them, and
boy
oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever come across. I started,
as
ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill, expecting that to rip through with
a
minimum of effort, but it really struggled. I actually burnt my finger on
it
quite badly, when I withdrew it from the tile at about half way through.
The
gearbox on the drill was red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard
?
Any tips to improve the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and
siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in a
generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this for,
and
should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think, be below
the
full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't actually see
where
the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I guess it must be at
the
top somewhere, near to where the float valve lever operates. Just for
sport,
I tried blowing into the inlet at the bottom, With the float pushed up,
you
can't blow into it at all, as you would expect. However, with the float
down, you can blow into it - but only just. Is this normal for this type
of
vertical filler mech ?

Arfa

With these new ultra small cisterns for low volume flushes there isn't
much room for the conventional syphon& float valve. However all this
new stuff is unreliable **** IME. The filler is "pilot operated". It
works on the same principle as an electric solenoid valve, ie there
is a diaphragm with two tiny holes that lets water in and out to close
the supply. Ie the mains pressure does the work. This why there's
such a tiny float.
If you can ditch all of it and fit conventional stuff you will be
better off IME.

It certainly is a 'complex' looking arrangement compared to the good old
ball valve and siphonic flush unit. I take your point about lack of space
though - it certainly is a small cistern. That said. I already have two
other toilets in the house, both with small cisterns, and vertical fill and
flush components, and so far (touch wood !!) both have been quite reliable
over a couple of years, with the slight qualification that the "Bog-to-Go"
from B&Q has a mind of its own on how long it's going to flush for. Long
hold, short hold, quick stab - doesn't matter ! It'll flush for just exactly
as long as it wants to ...

The bog in question that I have just bought for my downstairs cloak refit,
is actually identical to one I bought for the bathroom a couple of years
back. Looks the same, bought from the same merchants, and about the same
price, so I thought I'd have a look in that one, having forgotten what it
was like when I fitted it. The reason that I didn't remember the flexible
tube, is that although the cistern on that one has a similar arrangement of
components, physically, they are entirely different from what I've got this
time.

Actually, now I come to think of it, I seem to recall that the bits and
pieces were pre-fitted to this cistern.

Arfa

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2011 02:51, Arfa Daily wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom. They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n'
snap, but never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop
across a piece of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a
red colour. Looked a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of
holes in them, and boy oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever
come across. I started, as ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill,
expecting that to rip through with a minimum of effort, but it really
struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it quite badly, when I withdrew
it from the tile at about half way through. The gearbox on the drill was
red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ?

The tiles in my bathroom were similar. I ended up cutting the to size with
an angle grinder (true)

Any tips to improve
the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I had no problem using diamond tipped glass drills.

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in
a generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this
for, and should it be left to just dangle ?

It is the water inlet to the cistern, it reduces the noise of filling and
it should just dangle. Because it is flexible, any suction, which could,
theoretically, draw water back into the main will collapse the tube
instead. I suspect that, if it is mains fed, it probably ought to have a
double check valve as well these days.


I did wonder if it was the filler, but it seemed a bit small for that,
especially if the valve is a pressure operated 'servo' arrangement that
opens up as a result of a 'bleed' hole being opened by the float dropping,
as Harry suggested. The cistern is connected to full rising main pressure -
albeit via a service valve - as the main comes into the house through this
room. The cistern feed is tee'd from a point just above the main stop valve
for the house, which has always been the case since the house was built over
twenty years ago.



The open end will, I think,
be below the full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't
actually see where the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I
guess it must be at the top somewhere, near to where the float valve
lever operates. Just for sport, I tried blowing into the inlet at the
bottom, With the float pushed up, you can't blow into it at all, as you
would expect. However, with the float down, you can blow into it - but
only just. Is this normal for this type of vertical filler mech ?

It probably has an internal nozzle that is set for high pressure (i.e.
mains) water. If you are running it off a header cistern in the loft,
there ought to be a low pressure nozzle in the kit with which to replace
it.

Colin Bignell


I have seen these alternate nozzles supplied with 'conventional' float
valves, and have fitted them in place of the default high pressure one. The
bog in my dear old mum's house was fed from the low pressure cold, and I had
to use the alternate nozzle in the replacement I fitted to hers, to get it
to fill quicker than a quarter hour ... :-)

However, there does not seem to be any such nozzle supplied with this one -
not that I need one, as I am fed from high pressure water anyway. Sometime
during this week or next weekend, I'll get the bits installed in the
cistern, and get it hooked up. I guess that all will then be revealed ! I'll
let y'all know if there are any 'odd' revelations. Might help someone else
if they come across the same set of fittings.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:


"F Murtz" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
I've just put up a bunch of Spanish wall tiles in my downstairs
cloakroom. They were a bit 'resistant' to the 'snap' bit of score 'n'
snap, but never-the-less, did break cleanly with a bit of a karate chop
across a piece of thin wood. The actual base material of the tiles was a
red colour. Looked a bit terracotta. Today, I had to drill a couple of
holes in them, and boy oh boy, they were the hardest tiles I have ever
come across. I started, as ever, with a small 4mm masonry drill,
expecting that to rip through with a minimum of effort, but it really
struggled. I actually burnt my finger on it quite badly, when I withdrew
it from the tile at about half way through. The gearbox on the drill was
red hot. Anyone else come across tiles this hard ? Any tips to improve
the drill's performance at cutting into them ?

I also have a new bog that I've been putting in. I unpacked the bits and
pieces that go in the cistern, but there are no instructions, The filler
and siphon are two completely separate units. There is a fairly
conventional-looking adjustable float at the top of the filler tower. It
works a lever right on the top, the inner end of which is hidden under a
cap. Coming out of the side of the tower, below the lever, is a thinnish
(5mm perhaps) flexible pipe about 20 cms or so long. It just dangles in
a generally downward direction, the far end being open. What is this
for, and should it be left to just dangle ? The open end will, I think,
be below the full water level, if it is just left to dangle. I can't
actually see where the water to fill the tank, exits the tower, but I
guess it must be at the top somewhere, near to where the float valve
lever operates. Just for sport, I tried blowing into the inlet at the
bottom, With the float pushed up, you can't blow into it at all, as you
would expect. However, with the float down, you can blow into it - but
only just. Is this normal for this type of vertical filler mech ?

Arfa


Very small diamond core bits, build a dam with putty round hole and
fill with water.
similar to this.

http://www.amazon.com/DIAMOND-DRILL-.../dp/B000JKV1SG


I have done this before to drill glass etc, but in the case of these
tiles, it's not an option, as they are already on the wall, and the
holes are required for hanging accessories such as bog-roll holder,
towel rail etc. It's not a *big* deal - they do drill after a fashion -
and once I was through, bigger drills, although still slower than normal
when being used to open up the pilot hole, did the job without *too*
much fuss. I was just interested really to see if others had come across
such hard tiles. I don't recall having used any from Spain before, nor
any with a red base material, rather than white.

Arfa


You can still the same drills just dribble water on it from a large
hypodermic or some such.

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:55:50 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

However, there does not seem to be any such nozzle supplied with this
one - not that I need one, as I am fed from high pressure water anyway.

Equlibrium valves don't have different sized nozzels but should come
with flow restrictors that fit into the inlet pipe at the tap
connector. With Torbeck(tm) valves these are a bit of plastic with a
variable number of fixed pitch fins along about 1.5" of stem.

The flow through a eqlibrium valve can be rather high at mains
pressure and they shut off quick, this can lead to water hammer. Also
the overflow might not be able to cope with the flow rate...

--
Cheers
Dave.

F Murtz wrote in -
september.org:



You can still the same drills just dribble water on it from a large
hypodermic or some such.


Hamster water bottle tapes to the wall works very well indeed ... course
it's a "bit" late in the day to help the OP

--

All the best,

Chris