Adrian wrote:
On 03/12/2010 11:58 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
I shoved mine on a couple of weeks ago, and will take 'em off in
February or March.

Can you recommend a brand

I've got Vredestein SnowTracs on. Why those? Price vs brand reputation
vs speed rating vs availability when I got 'em a couple of years ago.
I got 'em from Camskill.co.uk, and had 'em fitted locally - most
smaller tyre places or garages will do it for you for some folding
drinking vouchers. Big tyre chains will charge a chunk more.

and how well did they cope with

a) ICE
b) Snow
c) Slush

A _damn sight_ better than the normal summer tyres - a pair of Mich
Energies and a pair of Conti PremiumContacts this year, previously
Mich Pilot Primacies.

Let's put it this way - my leg still hurts from where I went flying
and ****ted it on the underside of the door trying to get back in the
car after waiting for a big 4x4 tractor and trailer to stop sliding
sideways and get a wiggle on at a T-junction on Tuesday. I'd stopped
OK, I moved off OK, and I turned just fine.

Is your car a 2x4? Mine is.

Yep. 1990 Saab 900T16.
4wd is irrelevant in braking or turning, only for getting moving. If
you've got no grip, it'll merely bring you to the location of your
collision sooner and at a higher speed.

I rarely *need* to use the car these day - I commute by train (or
not, this week) - the reason I was considering chains is that I
might make 2 journeys a year in snow that are vital so the fitting
hassle isn't much overall for me.

Go back to that list of road conditions, and add...

d) cold wet tarmac
e) cold dry tarmac

to it. The grip relative to summer tyres swaps over at about 5degC.

I never got round to fitting winter tyres to my van this year as the spare
rims I bought have gone missing. However my Dad always uses winter tyres at
this time of the year and can easily drive up and down his steep snow and
ice covered street. It does not mean he can get where a SUV can get in the
snow due to height clearance but yesterday he could get up the street (two
very icy ungritted wheel tracks) without the wheels skidding and I struggled
in a RAV4 with normal tyres.

I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave him.
--
Adam

On 03/12/10 12:12, Adrian wrote:
On 03/12/2010 11:58 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
I shoved mine on a couple of weeks ago, and will take 'em off in
February or March.

Can you recommend a brand

I've got Vredestein SnowTracs on. Why those? Price vs brand reputation
vs speed rating vs availability when I got 'em a couple of years ago. I
got 'em from Camskill.co.uk, and had 'em fitted locally - most smaller
tyre places or garages will do it for you for some folding drinking
vouchers. Big tyre chains will charge a chunk more.

Hi

I've heard of them.

and how well did they cope with

a) ICE
b) Snow
c) Slush

A _damn sight_ better than the normal summer tyres - a pair of Mich
Energies and a pair of Conti PremiumContacts this year, previously Mich
Pilot Primacies.

Let's put it this way - my leg still hurts from where I went flying and
****ted it on the underside of the door trying to get back in the car
after waiting for a big 4x4 tractor and trailer to stop sliding sideways
and get a wiggle on at a T-junction on Tuesday. I'd stopped OK, I moved
off OK, and I turned just fine.

Impressive.

Is your car a 2x4? Mine is.

Yep. 1990 Saab 900T16.
4wd is irrelevant in braking or turning, only for getting moving. If
you've got no grip, it'll merely bring you to the location of your
collision sooner and at a higher speed.

True.

I rarely *need* to use the car these day - I commute by train (or not,
this week) - the reason I was considering chains is that I might make 2
journeys a year in snow that are vital so the fitting hassle isn't much
overall for me.

Go back to that list of road conditions, and add...

d) cold wet tarmac
e) cold dry tarmac

to it. The grip relative to summer tyres swaps over at about 5degC.

With that extra argument you make it sound more worth the effort or
finding a cheap set of rims and getting the tyres (which will probably
last until the rubber perishes in my case!). Wonder if I can find some
steels for my car... Right now I really have zero storage space but
that'll change by this time next year.

I'll look up those tyres in my size and make a note for next year - thanks.

Tim

--
Tim Watts

On 03/12/2010 12:27 PM, ARWadsworth wrote:
I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave him.

4wd will help if one end has grip (assuming a lockable centre diff).
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's no
grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

On 03/12/2010 12:30 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
With that extra argument you make it sound more worth the effort

This same debate is going on in a wide range of places atm, for obvious
reasons.

There doesn't seem to be anybody who's tried winter tyres and reckons
they're pointless - those with opinions fall into just two categories :-

- those who've tried them and are sold
- those who refuse to try them...

Adrian wrote:
On 03/12/2010 12:27 PM, ARWadsworth wrote:
I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave
him.

4wd will help if one end has grip (assuming a lockable centre diff).
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's
no grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

Possibly some sort a variable diff. It's a Golf 4Motion. Yesterday was only
the second time I have seen it.

--
Adam

On 03/12/2010 1:00 PM, Huge wrote:
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's no
grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

You have 4 brake pedals and 5 feet?

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said "if there's no grip", rather
than just some wheels having no grip...?

On 12/3/2010 6:07 AM, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Dec 3, 8:25 am, wrote:

It is easy to say they should have more equipment, yes, but they should.
There must be dozens of vehicles that could be fitted with snow ploughs,
even something as small as a landrover.

No win-no fee personal injury lawyers in chaingangs with shovels.

I like that idea.

On 03/12/10 13:49, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

On 03/12/10 10:04, Huge wrote:
On 2010-12-03, The Medway
wrote:

Many years ago I was in Toledo Ohio for a week& it snowed heavily.
Apart
from the local authority snowploughs, every private pickup truck
seemed to
have a snowplough attachment. All the shop& restaurant parking lots
were
cleared in hours, local backroads were cleared by residents using
pickup
trucks& ploughs.

The point being that it snows a lot there every year so it's worth
spending
several thousand dollars on a snowplough and it's attachment point for
your 4x4; and many Americans in Northern States keep a beaten-up 4x4
(usually a pickup) solely for that purpose. And even they have
problems; last
year in Pennsylvania (my Mother lives there), they started to run
out of
places to put the ploughed snow. And it's completely normal to come
out of
your house and find the snow-blowers have buried your car completely.

OK, we've had snow for the last 2 or 3 years, but it doesn't snow at
all
here most winters, so it's simply a waste of money.

Whereas snow chains would be a cheap investment. I was thinking last
year I ought to get some. Now I definately will, in time for the next
snow in Jan/Feb.

Tried fitting 'em, have you, on the road and in a blizzard?

I'm pleased to see some random bus company on the news last night
bought a load of sets after last year and it saved their arses this year.

Course, they have a nice warm dry garage to do the fitting in, plus the
kit.


Hang on a minute - something contradictory here... Do the bus drivers
get out every 5 minutes to fit/remove their chains?

--
Tim Watts

On 03/12/10 13:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Vernon wrote:

OK, we've had snow for the last 2 or 3 years, but it doesn't snow at
all
here most winters, so it's simply a waste of money.

Yes but is it a waste of money? As I said earlier if all council
vehicles were capable of taking a plough, it would add a little to the
vehicle cost(how much is a bin lorry?). If each year the council
bought several ploughs, it would add little to the annual budget.

Who is going to be driving them, as has already been pointed out.

Dustmen - think that has already been mentioned...

People harp on about how important education is, well how much damage
has been done by all these closed schools? We live in the 21st century
we should not be struggling with snow. Trains should not be getting
stuck, we know what the problems are, is it so difficult to remedy them?

Well I suppose you could do to Southern Region lines what some (all?)
commuter lines have out of New York - the third rail is upside down and
power is taken (again by a sliding shoe) from the underside, thus
avoiding it getting iced up.

But you'd have to explain where the billyuns needed to convert hundreds
of trains and thousands of miles of track is coming from, and, more
importantly, what your transition plan is, given that your train can run
on the one sort of line or the other - but not both. So you'd have to
shut down (e.g.) the London-Brighton line for some months while you
converted it.

You could also install electric heaters in all the points on the railway
network so that ice didn't get between them and jam them - but see above.

Doancha just love it when these armchair pontificators come up with
their latest wave-a-wand-and-make-it-all-OK idea?


Except this country seems to be run by armchair dwelling "do-nothing" types.

--
Tim Watts

Vernon wrote:
On 02/12/2010 13:16, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 01/12/2010 23:59, Vernon wrote:
....
Also I have to agree about these commercial airports not really playing
the game, they obviously do not have enough equipment to move the snow,
they should be clearing the whole runway width in one pass. Cost savings
again. Ditto the roads & railways.

It is easy to say they should have more equipment. It is less easy to be
in the position of having to justify expenditure on something that may
only be used once a decade. Even if they did have the equipment it might
not make any difference. Gatwick was advised to close by the Police
today because they were closing most of the roads around it while
yesterday the railway station was closed by a train that broke down on
an important set of points.

Colin Bignell


It is easy to say they should have more equipment, yes, but they should.
There must be dozens of vehicles that could be fitted with snow ploughs,
even something as small as a landrover. The specialist ice shifting
machinery would be freed up to do its job properly and the airport would
be open. Whilst I appreciate it may close due to an unusually large
volume of snow, it should be possible to clear in a couple of hours.
None of this closed for days nonsense.

Same goes for public roads, the councils have dozens of vehicles, why
are more of them not adapted for plowing. Snow ploughs are not
expensive. If Tesco can afford to buy quad bikes with ploughs and a
small grit trailer then I don't see why councils cannot do the same.

If it is a "freak" "one off" "never happen again" event fair enough, but
this is not the case. Perhaps the private sector would like to invest?
For example the HGV operators might like to buy ploughs for their
tractor units, then in bad weather they can assist in keeping roads
open, this benefits the HGV operators as they can resume normal
operations quicker, and councils would not need as much specialist
equipment. The "one off" charges for the assistance would be minimal
compared to the billions the experts reckon UK plc loses due to traffic
chaos.

Did ou hear the beeb yesterady

"I am a farmer with a tractor: I can clear snow, but I need to buy fully
reflective clothing, have twin whirly lights on top and empty my tank of
red diesel and fill it with road diesel before they let me on the roads
for non agricultural purposes: So I don't.

Vernon wrote:
On 03/12/2010 10:04, Huge wrote:
On 2010-12-03, The Medway
wrote:

Many years ago I was in Toledo Ohio for a week& it snowed heavily.
Apart
from the local authority snowploughs, every private pickup truck
seemed to
have a snowplough attachment. All the shop& restaurant parking lots
were
cleared in hours, local backroads were cleared by residents using pickup
trucks& ploughs.

The point being that it snows a lot there every year so it's worth
spending
several thousand dollars on a snowplough and it's attachment point for
your 4x4; and many Americans in Northern States keep a beaten-up 4x4
(usually a pickup) solely for that purpose. And even they have
problems; last
year in Pennsylvania (my Mother lives there), they started to run out of
places to put the ploughed snow. And it's completely normal to come
out of
your house and find the snow-blowers have buried your car completely.

OK, we've had snow for the last 2 or 3 years, but it doesn't snow at all
here most winters, so it's simply a waste of money.

Yes but is it a waste of money? As I said earlier if all council
vehicles were capable of taking a plough, it would add a little to the
vehicle cost(how much is a bin lorry?). If each year the council bought
several ploughs, it would add little to the annual budget.

BUT the benefit to the country if everything gets moving again quicker
is huge, experts reckon these events cost millions in lost income, money
that we really could do with. So I fail to see how it is a waste of
money. Even if this sort of weather only happens once every ten years I
am sure the capital expended would be far less than revenues lost.

People harp on about how important education is, well how much damage
has been done by all these closed schools? We live in the 21st century
we should not be struggling with snow. Trains should not be getting
stuck, we know what the problems are, is it so difficult to remedy them?

Tractors don't do much work on farms at this time of year: They are laid
up in sheds and barns. Makes sense to use em.No investment needed. Just
fix the silly regs.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/12/10 10:04, Huge wrote:
On 2010-12-03, The Medway
wrote:

Many years ago I was in Toledo Ohio for a week& it snowed heavily.
Apart
from the local authority snowploughs, every private pickup truck
seemed to
have a snowplough attachment. All the shop& restaurant parking lots
were
cleared in hours, local backroads were cleared by residents using pickup
trucks& ploughs.

The point being that it snows a lot there every year so it's worth
spending
several thousand dollars on a snowplough and it's attachment point for
your 4x4; and many Americans in Northern States keep a beaten-up 4x4
(usually a pickup) solely for that purpose. And even they have
problems; last
year in Pennsylvania (my Mother lives there), they started to run out of
places to put the ploughed snow. And it's completely normal to come
out of
your house and find the snow-blowers have buried your car completely.

OK, we've had snow for the last 2 or 3 years, but it doesn't snow at all
here most winters, so it's simply a waste of money.


Whereas snow chains would be a cheap investment. I was thinking last
year I ought to get some. Now I definately will, in time for the next
snow in Jan/Feb. I'm pleased to see some random bus company on the news
last night bought a load of sets after last year and it saved their
arses this year.

I was mooting "All season" tyres, but I've not found any for my wheel
size that seem to be very convincing - and I agree, winter wheels would
be a PITA for a couple of weeks a year.


buy different wheels as well. The rim width needs to be smaller.wheels
are cheap.And makes changing easier.

ARWadsworth wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/12/10 10:04, Huge wrote:
On 2010-12-03, The Medway
wrote:
Many years ago I was in Toledo Ohio for a week& it snowed heavily.
Apart from the local authority snowploughs, every private pickup
truck seemed to have a snowplough attachment. All the shop& restaurant
parking lots were cleared in hours, local backroads were
cleared by residents using pickup trucks& ploughs.
The point being that it snows a lot there every year so it's worth
spending several thousand dollars on a snowplough and it's
attachment point for your 4x4; and many Americans in Northern States keep
a beaten-up 4x4
(usually a pickup) solely for that purpose. And even they have
problems; last year in Pennsylvania (my Mother lives there), they
started to run out of places to put the ploughed snow. And it's
completely normal to come out of your house and find the
snow-blowers have buried your car completely. OK, we've had snow for the
last 2 or 3 years, but it doesn't snow at
all here most winters, so it's simply a waste of money.

Whereas snow chains would be a cheap investment. I was thinking last
year I ought to get some. Now I definately will, in time for the next
snow in Jan/Feb. I'm pleased to see some random bus company on the
news last night bought a load of sets after last year and it saved
their arses this year.

I was mooting "All season" tyres, but I've not found any for my wheel
size that seem to be very convincing - and I agree, winter wheels
would be a PITA for a couple of weeks a year.

But you are supposed to run winter tyres all the winter months not just when
it snows.

they also cope better with (mild) standing water

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:59:39 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

Well I suppose you could do to Southern Region lines what some (all?)
commuter lines have out of New York - the third rail is upside down and
power is taken (again by a sliding shoe) from the underside, thus
avoiding it getting iced up.

Doesn't the DLR do that? Vague memory...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:59:39 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

But you'd have to explain where the billyuns needed to convert hundreds
of trains and thousands of miles of track is coming from, and, more
importantly, what your transition plan is, given that your train can run
on the one sort of line or the other - but not both. So you'd have to
shut down (e.g.) the London-Brighton line for some months while you
converted it.

I agree about the billyuns. But perhaps the trains could be converted to
dual standard first (I was thinking about this last night). We already
have such trains round here.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:43:14 +0000, Adrian wrote:

On 03/12/2010 12:27 PM, ARWadsworth wrote:
I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave him.

4wd will help if one end has grip (assuming a lockable centre diff).
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's no
grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

Not quite. My understanding is that it works more like a limited slip
diff -if one side starts spinning, it brakes it a bit to feed some power
to the other side. You snake a bit, but keep moving.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:08:28 +0000, Adrian wrote:

On 03/12/2010 1:00 PM, Huge wrote:
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's
no grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

You have 4 brake pedals and 5 feet?

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said "if there's no grip", rather
than just some wheels having no grip...?

Yes, but your qualification wasn't attached to the right part of the
sentence....!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 03/12/2010 2:30 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tractors don't do much work on farms at this time of year: They are laid
up in sheds and barns.

The one that I followed down the lanes on Tuesday wasn't. It was towing
a large trailer full of livestock.

The farm loader that was broken down coming the other way wasn't laid
up, either. More's the pity.

On 03/12/2010 2:38 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave him.

4wd will help if one end has grip (assuming a lockable centre diff).
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's no
grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

Not quite. My understanding is that it works more like a limited slip
diff -if one side starts spinning, it brakes it a bit to feed some power
to the other side. You snake a bit, but keep moving.

So lift off a bit - you keep moving.

On Dec 3, 11:06*am, robgraham wrote:

I have to agree - I suspect the steam story is just that - urban
myth. *As far as I know the cable stopped working.

It's not steam, as steam is invisible.

What it's far more likely to be is a condensation plume. The warmer
road evaporates moisture which then condenses in the air above it.
We've had a couple of (large!) local potholes filled in today with hot
tarmac and there are still sizable plumes over both of them. even a
couple of hours later.

On Dec 3, 1:41*pm, Tim Streater wrote:

There must be dozens of vehicles that could be fitted with snow ploughs,
even something as small as a landrover.

Buckle the front end, I should think, or more likely make the node dip
and the rear wheels leave the ground.

Landrover (in the 1960s at least) had an official plans book for how
to make snowploughs etc. for mounting on a Landie. Remember that it
was designed originally for "light ploughing" too.

On 03/12/10 16:24, Huge wrote:
On 2010-12-03, Bob wrote:
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:59:39 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

But you'd have to explain where the billyuns needed to convert hundreds
of trains and thousands of miles of track is coming from, and, more
importantly, what your transition plan is, given that your train can run
on the one sort of line or the other - but not both. So you'd have to
shut down (e.g.) the London-Brighton line for some months while you
converted it.

I agree about the billyuns. But perhaps the trains could be converted to
dual standard first (I was thinking about this last night). We already
have such trains round here.

Or in the case of the London-Brighton Thameslink line, triple standard, since
they already have both overhead wire and sliding shoe pickups.

(What retard allowed that to happen, BTW?)



Of course, you'll have the NIMBYs out: "overhead lines look ugly...".

I must admit, a pair of tracks look quite pleasant on the landscape, but
overhead wires and the supporting gantries look hideous... But I'd
rather have a working train...

--
Tim Watts

On 03/12/10 11:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/12/10 11:52, Adrian wrote:
On 03/12/2010 11:36 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
I was mooting "All season" tyres, but I've not found any for my wheel
size that seem to be very convincing - and I agree, winter wheels
would be a PITA for a couple of weeks a year.

"All season" tyres are a compromise in all conditions - poor grip in
summer, poor grip in winter.


Can you recommend a brand - and how well did they cope with


you need to look for winter tyres, not all season/

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2010...r-tyres/38374/

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/d...es-work-video/

-

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adam Aglionby
saying something like:

The Mound, its a downhill section of road, in Edinburgh had, 1960`s
electric heating cable, experimental under road heating , given up on
becuase it created clouds of steam.

Hah.
Glasgow's Kingston Bridge was originally designed to have under-tarmac
heating installed, because the architects knew full well it would be
exposed to a moisture-laden breeze which would deposit loads of dew and
freeze.
To same some £250K, the heating circuit was omitted from the build.
The first proper winter, cars were sliding all over the place and
ploughing into each other.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Barnes
saying something like:

However I agree with your earlier point about equipping vehicles that
the council already has for snow clearing.

A bloke I knew in a village not far north of the border, got paid to
bolt a snowplough onto one of his trucks and clear the road between his
village and the neighbouring one, just over the county border. Each LA
paid him for the same trip - nice little earner.

On 03/12/10 17:24, Tim Streater wrote:

Well, I've never had a 3rd-rail train break down on me, unlike a
Cambridge-KX train that the driver had to reboot, as he put it, a number
of times (must be running Windows), before giving up near Stevenage.
They had to send another train to push us to KX. Then there was one
going the other way which terminated at Royston "due to problems with
the overhead wires". I damn nearly missed a plane as a result.

(Then the plane had to land again soon after take-off, due to a faulty
warning light).


They're always rebooting 375s (with 3rd rail).

--
Tim Watts

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Vernon wrote:

Well I suppose you could do to Southern Region lines what some (all?)
commuter lines have out of New York - the third rail is upside down and
power is taken (again by a sliding shoe) from the underside, thus
avoiding it getting iced up.


Save your money - you don't need to go that far!

Just take look at the Dinky Little Railway (DLR) which does the same ...

But you'd have to explain where the billyuns needed to convert hundreds
of trains and thousands of miles of track is coming from, and, more
importantly, what your transition plan is, given that your train can run
on the one sort of line or the other - but not both. So you'd have to
shut down (e.g.) the London-Brighton line for some months while you
converted it.

The new third-rail supports have to be beside the rail itself - the outside, away from
the running rail, obviously. There is also enough room to position the new rail further
away from the running rail.

It might be possibly, therefore, to mount shoes for the new system on existing stock
without removing the existing gear and install the new third rail alongside the existing.

Stock with modified shoes would use the new collection system, where available, but all
stock could use all of the track. The old third rail would be removed when the changeover
is complete.

Remember that it is not just snow that causes problems - in autumn, fallen leaves cause
traction problems on all railways but the third rail is especially prone to problems. If
the leaf problem areas were upgraded first, the railways could save quite a bit of money
from the improved operating efficiency which could then be used to fund the further work
over the entire network to make it snow free ...


You could also install electric heaters in all the points on the railway
network so that ice didn't get between them and jam them - but see above.


There is a cheaper method which relies on moving the points at regular intervals,
especially in the middle of the night when there is no traffic and the points don't
normally move - hence the reason there's all those frozen points in the morning when the
trains want to start running again ...

IIRC they do that on the DLR as well ...

--

Terry

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:01:49 +0000, Adrian wrote:

On 03/12/2010 2:38 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
I don't know how much help the traction control and 4WD also gave
him.

4wd will help if one end has grip (assuming a lockable centre diff).
Traction control won't do anything you can't do manually - if there's
no grip, you won't be moving, because it'll cut all power.

Not quite. My understanding is that it works more like a limited slip
diff -if one side starts spinning, it brakes it a bit to feed some
power to the other side. You snake a bit, but keep moving.

So lift off a bit - you keep moving.

The point I was making was the TC doesn't 'cut all power'.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
says...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Barnes
saying something like:

However I agree with your earlier point about equipping vehicles that
the council already has for snow clearing.

A bloke I knew in a village not far north of the border, got paid to
bolt a snowplough onto one of his trucks and clear the road between his
village and the neighbouring one, just over the county border. Each LA
paid him for the same trip - nice little earner.

Well, you'd expect him to clear BOTH sides of the road, wouldn't you ...?

--

Terry

On 03/12/2010 13:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Dec 3, 8:25�am, Vernon wrote:

It is easy to say they should have more equipment, yes, but they
should.
There must be dozens of vehicles that could be fitted with snow
ploughs,
even something as small as a landrover.

Buckle the front end, I should think, or more likely make the node dip
and the rear wheels leave the ground. Tractors are *designed* to have
that sort of thing attached at the front, so no wonder its tractors,
which will have better grip anyway, which do the work.


Er no, in the Falklands the airport at MPA does not close, it has to
remain open. When it snows there, it can put down a foot or two in a
couple of hours. Apart from specialist snowclearing equipment, there was
a whole raft of trailers and bolt on accessories for other vehicles.
Drivers of said vehicles were trained to use it. Simple. We had
snowploughs on the front of our landrovers, and aircraft tractors were
fitted with steerable rotating brushes at the front, we could clear all
our area of responsibility within 30 minutes or so.

So why can't councils turn around and do the same, there must be plenty
of drivers who could be trained up, I doubt given the current
situation(with job losses) you would get too many refusing to do it. So
no need to pay more either. As TMH as already said a lot of councils use
dual purpose vehicles as gritters, so why not other vehicles, trailers etc.

It all comes down to wether the council want to do something about it or
just bury their heads in the sand for a week or so until the weather
improves and hope people forget about it. Oh and a jobsworth attitude
from their staff.

Vernon wrote:

It all comes down to wether the council want to do something about it or
just bury their heads in the sand for a week or so until the weather
improves and hope people forget about it. Oh and a jobsworth attitude
from their staff.

We've not exactly had much snow here, probably a total of four inches in
three bouts, but our estate roads never get gritted, one you reach the
main road that's gritted and fine, but the estate roads are glass-like.

I wouldn't expect them to be gritted with the same priority as main
roads, but if they'd sent a gritter round just once at some point in the
week it would have kept them clear (I know as I gritted my own drive and
section of path the morning after the first snow and it's still clear).

That would have avoided them cancelling the dustbin round today.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...


That would have avoided them cancelling the dustbin round today.

They haven't gritted the roads here either.
They are also like glass.
The dustbins were emptied as usual.
Must have different elfs running the safety here.

"Mark." wrote in message
...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/d...es-work-video/

That video is not convincing..
all it shows is that you can spin the wheels and get nowhere.

On 03/12/2010 16:55, Mark. wrote:

you need to look for winter tyres, not all season/

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2010...r-tyres/38374/


http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/d...es-work-video/

-

Worst problem I had last year wouldn't be helped by them. _I've_ never
got stuck, low profile summer tyres and all. But there were 10,000 cars
in front of me...

Andy

On 03/12/2010 17:24, Tim Streater wrote:

Well, I've never had a 3rd-rail train break down on me, unlike a
Cambridge-KX train that the driver had to reboot, as he put it, a number
of times (must be running Windows), before giving up near Stevenage.
They had to send another train to push us to KX. Then there was one
going the other way which terminated at Royston "due to problems with
the overhead wires". I damn nearly missed a plane as a result.

(Then the plane had to land again soon after take-off, due to a faulty
warning light).


I have spent a couple of hours parked outside the station waiting for
the third rail train. Ice on the rail acts as an insulator, forcing the
pickup off the rail, and that's that.

The train finally turned up being pushed by a Diesel goods, and with all
the interior lights flashing on and off. Must have been fun.

Andy

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:30:29 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

Is there though? That might work in most places where the 3rd rail is to
the left of the train - what about if its between the two tracks? Or if
there's 4 tracks?

Or a tight tunnel.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 3 Dec 2010 16:37:49 GMT Huge wrote :
Two different power standards on the railways.

Here in Melbourne we have two gauges - standard gauge (1435mm) and
Irish gauge (1600mm). Our suburban and intra-state trains use the
latter, interstate trains the former. In places there are dual gauge
tracks - two rails on one side, one on the other - very interesting
when it gets to points.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 18:50:01 -0000, Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Barnes
saying something like:

However I agree with your earlier point about equipping vehicles that
the council already has for snow clearing.

A bloke I knew in a village not far north of the border, got paid to
bolt a snowplough onto one of his trucks and clear the road between his
village and the neighbouring one, just over the county border. Each LA
paid him for the same trip - nice little earner.

Well, you'd expect him to clear BOTH sides of the road, wouldn't you ...?

I was on a bus that was following a gritting lorry. The grit was mostly on
the nearside with only about a third of the offside receiving noticeable
distribution. This was a road just wide enough for 2 buses if they slowed
down.
It would be fairly easy, I'd have thought, to bias the throw and sense the
verges/kerbs and adjust the thrower to cover the road.
When the bus route diverged from the lorry's route we were on snow and ice -
over a week and a bus route still untreated!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 09:13:17 +0000, PeterC
wrote:


I was on a bus that was following a gritting lorry. The grit was mostly on
the nearside with only about a third of the offside receiving noticeable
distribution. This was a road just wide enough for 2 buses if they slowed
down.
It would be fairly easy, I'd have thought, to bias the throw and sense the
verges/kerbs and adjust the thrower to cover the road.

No - it makes sense to do one side of the road and the adjacent
footway, then the same on his return journey, so that footways and the
carriageway are treated.

--
Frank Erskine

On 03/12/2010 18:55, Vernon wrote:
....
Er no, in the Falklands the airport at MPA does not close, it has to
remain open. When it snows there, it can put down a foot or two in a
couple of hours....

Does it snow every year? Is there a military need to keep the airport
open? Do those factors apply in the UK?

Colin Bignell