Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

JGH

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

Because more of it leaks out through the walls and windows.

I keep my heating on 24/7 at a low temperature.

I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the same
temperature.

tim

tim wrote:
I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the same
temperature.

I have thermostat that does that for me. Has 150 years of heating
technology passed you by? I've had my roomstats on the same setting
since I moved in here in May.

JGH

On 24/11/2010 15:38, tim.... wrote:
wrote in message
...
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

Because more of it leaks out through the walls and windows.

I keep my heating on 24/7 at a low temperature.

I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the same
temperature.

If you had your heating controlled by a thermostat in your living room
(or even your hall if you had a fire as well as radiators) your wouldn't
need to keep messing with the boiler thermostat.

jgharston wrote:

Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

As a rough guess, I'd say that draughts in the summer are either not
noticeable or are in fact welcome.

In winter they aren't.

Folks turn up the thermostat in winter so that they are comfortable.

If your lounge is at a nice 23 deg C in the centre of the room and
equidistant between floor and ceiling, you might get a surprise if you
then put the thermometer at floor level. It might be say 19 deg Cdown
there.

When people get cold feet due to this thermal stratification, they
turn up the thermostat to get their upper body warmer, which then
warms the feet via the cardiovascular circulation.

Winter has the unfortunate effect of highlighting heat losses and
draughts, and as far as comfort levels go Winter Summer.

TF

On Nov 24, 3:26*pm, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".


Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!


Journalists' nonsense or a figure of speech, but not incorrect.

Thermostats work on the air temperature which could, given an ideal
heating system, remain constant at, say, 21 degC.

Human comfort is based on heat losses by convection (air temperature),
radiation and cooling by evaporation. So, in cold weather, the
surrounding radiant surfaces (walls, floors, ceilings) are colder so
you feel colder although the air temperature stays constant. You lose
more heat by radiation. ISTR that human comfort conditions are best
controlled by a temperature sensor in a b;ack ball of about 6"
diameter; can't recall what it's called though.

Similarly, UFH SHOULD allow you to feel comfortable at a lower air
temperature.

So there.

Onetap :
On Nov 24, 3:26*pm, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".


Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!


Journalists' nonsense or a figure of speech, but not incorrect.

Thermostats work on the air temperature which could, given an ideal
heating system, remain constant at, say, 21 degC.

Human comfort is based on heat losses by convection (air temperature),
radiation and cooling by evaporation. So, in cold weather, the
surrounding radiant surfaces (walls, floors, ceilings) are colder so
you feel colder although the air temperature stays constant. You lose
more heat by radiation. ISTR that human comfort conditions are best
controlled by a temperature sensor in a b;ack ball of about 6"
diameter; can't recall what it's called though.

There's also the effect of air movement. When it's cold outside and
there's a hot radiator pumping out heat, the air moves around quite a
lot. That movement affects human comfort but has no effect on a
thermostat. The colder it is outside, the more air movement there is.
The effect is quite pronounced in this house where the radiators were
all installed on the walls opposite the windows, and still noticeable
with the more usual arrangement of radiators under the windows.

--
Mike Barnes

On 24/11/10 15:26, jgharston wrote:

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

They didn't say thay'd be turning up the *temperature*. My household
turns up the heat in winter without anyone touching any controls. That's
what thermostats are for after-all.

Cheers,

Colin.

Colin Stamp wrote:
They didn't say thay'd be turning up the *temperature*. My household
turns up the heat in winter without anyone touching any controls. That's
what thermostats are for after-all.

They always say it in a manner that means a human being interfering
with some controls somewhere, as in: good evening, it's now officially
winter, and I expect you'll be turning your heating up. And now, the
weather...

JGH

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
Colin Stamp wrote:
They didn't say thay'd be turning up the *temperature*. My household
turns up the heat in winter without anyone touching any controls. That's
what thermostats are for after-all.

They always say it in a manner that means a human being interfering
with some controls somewhere, as in: good evening, it's now officially
winter, and I expect you'll be turning your heating up. And now, the
weather...

JGH


It used to infuriate me at work (with a load of females) when going into a
conference room - the Air Con would be pushed down to 15 degrees if it was
hot and up to 30 if it was cold. Then after about half an hour - guess
what - it would be reversed. (I gave up)

Weather forecasters infuriate me by telling me what to wear - and whether to
take my "brolly" (I ain't got one!) Stick to talking about the weather!

On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that feels
cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
tim wrote:
I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the
same
temperature.

I have thermostat that does that for me.

I don't

Has 150 years of heating
technology passed you by?

The LL decided to save 50 quid by not fitting one. All I have is a stat on
the boiler (and no I don't know how it works to keep the room at a set
temperature and yes I did ask here for an explanation)

I've had my roomstats on the same setting
since I moved in here in May.

I have to change mine

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
On 24/11/2010 15:38, tim.... wrote:
wrote in message
...
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

Because more of it leaks out through the walls and windows.

I keep my heating on 24/7 at a low temperature.

I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the
same
temperature.

If you had your heating controlled by a thermostat in your living room (or
even your hall if you had a fire as well as radiators) your wouldn't need
to keep messing with the boiler thermostat.

Not my choice I assure you

tim

On Nov 24, 3:26*pm, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

JGH

I haven't turned my heating on yet due to massive insulation. I'll let
you know when I do.

Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that feels
cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

That's on account of the humidity gov.

I find that you can knock a degree off the comfort zone for every 10%
humidity there is.

Cheap way to feel warmer in winter is indoor plants: they feed moisture
into the air.

Nightjar wrote on Nov 24, 2010:

On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that feels
cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

Yes, I've often wondered about that. I can sit outside quite comfortably in
the summer at a temperature of 20C. Using the same thermometer indoors now,
that would seem rather too chilly for comfort.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

On 24/11/2010 20:57, Tim Streater wrote:

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that
feels cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Well it could be all in the mind but I don't think so. I think it is
mostly physiological rather than psychological.

If I spend most of the day outside when I come in for a break the
daytime set temperature of 17C seems warm. Stay in all day and I have to
push the temperature up to the evening setting of 19C.

I find, especially nowadays, that my body switches from automatically
being "too hot" (summer) to "too cold" (winter). This happens sometime
in spring and autumn as appropriate. There's some hysteresis in there
somewhere, which accounts for having to crank the thermostat up and down.

I find that as I grow older I have less and less tolerance to the cold.
I am looking after a neighbour's dog this week and when I take her out
my top half is OK in a big padded jacket but my legs seem very cold even
though there is not much wind and the air temperature is still
marginally above zero.

On 24/11/2010 19:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
....
Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that
feels cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

That's on account of the humidity gov.

I find that you can knock a degree off the comfort zone for every 10%
humidity there is.

Cheap way to feel warmer in winter is indoor plants: they feed moisture
into the air.

Might mist up the windows in the car though.

Colin Bignell

"jgharston" wrote in message ...
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

JGH

Don't you agree you need more HEAT (energy) to maintain the same TEMPERATURE in winter than in summer?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Don't you agree you need more HEAT (energy) to maintain the same TEMPERATURE in winter than in summer?

Of course. That's why your fuel consumption generally increases in
colder weather.

Heat normally increases the temperature, disregarding losses due to,
well, outside temperature, insulation being a factor.


--
Frank Erskine

On Nov 24, 7:57*pm, Mike Lane wrote:
Nightjar wrote on Nov 24, 2010:





On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that feels
cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

Yes, I've often wondered about that. I can sit outside quite comfortably in
the summer at a temperature of 20C. Using the same thermometer indoors now,
that would seem rather too chilly for comfort.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Radiant heat from the sun. If you were sat in the shade, it would not
be so comfortable

On Nov 24, 9:39*pm, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2010 20:57, Tim Streater wrote:

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that
feels cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Well it could be all in the mind but I don't think so. I think it is
mostly physiological rather than *psychological.

If I spend most of the day outside when I come in for a break the
daytime set temperature of 17C seems warm. Stay in all day and I have to
push the temperature up to the evening setting of 19C.

I find, especially nowadays, that my body switches from automatically
being "too hot" (summer) to "too cold" (winter). This happens sometime
in spring and autumn as appropriate. There's some hysteresis in there
somewhere, which accounts for having to crank the thermostat up and down.

On Nov 24, 11:12*pm, "Graham." wrote:
"jgharston" wrote in ...
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

JGH

Don't you agree you need more HEAT (energy) to maintain the same TEMPERATURE in winter than in summer?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No. Not very profound.

On 25/11/2010 07:18, harry wrote:
On Nov 24, 9:39 pm, Roger wrote:
On 24/11/2010 20:57, Tim Streater wrote:

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that
feels cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Well it could be all in the mind but I don't think so. I think it is
mostly physiological rather than psychological.

If I spend most of the day outside when I come in for a break the
daytime set temperature of 17C seems warm. Stay in all day and I have to
push the temperature up to the evening setting of 19C.

I find, especially nowadays, that my body switches from automatically
being "too hot" (summer) to "too cold" (winter). This happens sometime
in spring and autumn as appropriate. There's some hysteresis in there
somewhere, which accounts for having to crank the thermostat up and down.

I find that as I grow older I have less and less tolerance to the cold.
I am looking after a neighbour's dog this week and when I take her out
my top half is OK in a big padded jacket but my legs seem very cold even
though there is not much wind and the air temperature is still
marginally above zero.

When you're indoors you're mostly sat about. Outdoors you're mostly
doing something.

Surely contributors to this particular newsgroup will all be doing
something when indoors too?

Colin Bignell

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Different humidity though and that dramatically changes the subjective
temperature even if the actual temperature is the same.

Air leaks are more noticeable (and unwelcome) in winter.

etc.

So yup, a stat will do some, but possibly needs tweaking a bit -
especially in older less well insulated places.

In my house, in warmer weather, when the rate of heat loss is lower, and
the rooms tend to be more equal in temperature, I often have to tweak
the room thermostat UP a degree or so in order to get the heating to
kick in.

In the winter, when things cool down more rapidly (in particular, the
area around the thermostat), the thermostat can often be turned DOWN a
degree or so.
--
Ian

On Nov 24, 3:26*pm, jgharston wrote:
Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

FFS WHY???

This is one of the few things that makes me want to actually
pick up the radio and throw it against a wall.
25degrees was fine for the summer, why on earth will I be
wanting to turn the heating up higher for the winter?

When you move in/install heating, you set the roomstat to
whatever you find comfortable, and then leave the fecking
thing alone.

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

JGH

Not everyone nor every heating system has a thermostat, FFS. Many will
be turning their gas fires up as it gets colder outside, etc., etc.

MBQ

Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 24/11/2010 19:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 24/11/2010 15:26, jgharston wrote:
...
Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which has very little to do with human comfort. I find 18C to be a
comfortable temperature for my car in summer, but in winter, that
feels cold and it is set to 24C at the moment.

Colin Bignell

That's on account of the humidity gov.

I find that you can knock a degree off the comfort zone for every 10%
humidity there is.

Cheap way to feel warmer in winter is indoor plants: they feed moisture
into the air.

Might mist up the windows in the car though.


I dont equate 'indoors' with 'in a car'

Colin Bignell

Onetap wrote:

On Nov 24, 3:26*pm, jgharston wrote:

Money Box Live on the Radio. Started with the announcer saying:
"As winter comes, households will be turning up the heat".

Agh!!!!!

Why does whatever you set the heating to in July suddenly
become too cold in December? *IT'*S *THE* *SAME* *FECKING*
*TEMPERATURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!

Journalists' nonsense or a figure of speech, but not incorrect.

Thermostats work on the air temperature which could, given an ideal
heating system, remain constant at, say, 21 degC.

Human comfort is based on heat losses by convection (air temperature),
radiation and cooling by evaporation. So, in cold weather, the
surrounding radiant surfaces (walls, floors, ceilings) are colder so
you feel colder although the air temperature stays constant. You lose
more heat by radiation. ISTR that human comfort conditions are best
controlled by a temperature sensor in a b;ack ball of about 6"
diameter; can't recall what it's called though.

I've just crunched some numbers on this.

If due to the cold weather the walls of your room fall in temp by 3
deg C with the same internal air temperature or thermostat setting,
(for argument's sake lets say the fall was from 293K to 290K), and
remembering that the radiated energy varies as the fourth power of the
absolute temperature, then that drop of 3 deg C will mean your
radiative heat gain from the walls, other things being equal, will
drop by 5 percent.

Not much, eh?

From memory a human being radiates 400W and receives 330W in return.
The difference is made up by burning energy in the form of food.

But your radiative heat gain has fallen by 5 percent of 330W, or
16.5W. This doesn't sound much, but for the same level of comfort it
has to be made up from somewhere, such as an increased fat or
carbohydrate intake, so that you now have to make 16.5 + (400 - 330) =
86.5W by burning food, for the same comfort level.

However, eating extra burgers just to keep warm is not a healthy idea,
so instead one cranks up the thermostat to get the same comfort level
as before, probably to the level where the demand from burning food
remains the same....

TF

"tim...." wrote in message
...

I assure you that as the outside temp goes lower I have to adjust the
heating temperature upwards by about 6 degrees to keep the rooms at the
same temperature.

That would be duff heating.

Many homes have duff heating, even "modern" systems have cr@p controls.
Anything that relies on TRVs is probably cr@p.