friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away) & safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use.

I was initially wondering abt some sort of hinged single pitch "roof"
on the longest wall side, tubular steel frame with tarpaulin attached
- don;t know what it would weigh once it was strong enough not to flex
though? and how to secure in the "open" position...images of
guillotined fingers....

I once had an estate car with a "load cover" that concertina'd up out
of the way and then when pulled out extended along two channels in the
load area of the estate covering the contents.....

how to replicate 12 ft wide!?! ;)

Anyone got any cunning ideas?

Jim K

Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

On Nov 11, 5:34*pm, "js.b1" wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the *tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

How about fixing one corner of the tarp to a hook in the corner where
the 2 walls meet (say 1.5m above the sand pit) then attach the other
corners to the remaining 3 corners of the sandpit (just below the top
of the sandpit). Any water etc. would run off and the pit should be
covered. Water could get between the tarp and the wall but would this
matter. When they want to "open" it they can either take it all off or
unclip the 3 sandbit ends and hook them on the wall hook out of the
way.

On 11/11/2010 17:34, js.b1 wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

Put anything in the centre really. Dustbin?

On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, "js.b1" wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

yes!..I can picture that - but I should explain further - the level of
the sand is not upto (by 12" say) the top of the retaining wooden
sides - so a tarp over a beach ball / bin I expect would still end up
draping down inside the sand pit and so directing the rain into the
sand pit rather than outside of the retaining walls?

spose a means of anchoring the tarp to the outside of the retaining
walls could work - as long as the hooks or whatever were safe for the
kids clambering in and out past them.....? and it could be done up/
undone by a female or two and be "reliable"....

any thoughts on a safe lady proof method of so anchoring ? - eyelets
in tarp are common - but what child-safe things to attach to?

Ta
Jim K

On Nov 11, 5:41 pm, Lee Nowell wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

How about fixing one corner of the tarp to a hook in the corner where
the 2 walls meet (say 1.5m above the sand pit) then attach the other
corners to the remaining 3 corners of the sandpit (just below the top
of the sandpit). Any water etc. would run off and the pit should be
covered. Water could get between the tarp and the wall but would this
matter. When they want to "open" it they can either take it all off or
unclip the 3 sandbit ends and hook them on the wall hook out of the
way.

yes I can see that - tho - similar to the other tarp idea - what to
attach the tarp to (at the 3 demountable corners) that is also child
friendly..?

ta
Jim K

On 11/11/2010 17:31, Jim K wrote:
friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away)& safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use...

How about a tarpaulin mounted onto a roller fitted part way up the wall
on one side? Unrolled, with the free end attached to the edge of the
pit, any rain would simply run off down the slope. A crank handle to
wind the tarpaulin up would allow just one person to put it away. It
could also be put over the pit quickly if rain came on suddenly.

The open end would need to have something like a triangular curtain,
which could be attached to the other edge of the pit when it is covered.
To put it away, that would need to be released from the pit edge, folded
back on top of the main cover and rolled up inside it. It would probably
be a good idea to have a way to fix the edge of the main cover to the
other wall, perhaps sme sort of track.

Colin Bignell

On Nov 11, 7:12 pm, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:41 pm, Lee Nowell wrote:

On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

How about fixing one corner of the tarp to a hook in the corner where
the 2 walls meet (say 1.5m above the sand pit) then attach the other
corners to the remaining 3 corners of the sandpit (just below the top
of the sandpit). Any water etc. would run off and the pit should be
covered. Water could get between the tarp and the wall but would this
matter. When they want to "open" it they can either take it all off or
unclip the 3 sandbit ends and hook them on the wall hook out of the
way.

yes I can see that - tho - similar to the other tarp idea - what to
attach the tarp to (at the 3 demountable corners) that is also child
friendly..?

ta
Jim K

what are those fixings called where you poke them through an eyelet
(or better put the eyelet over them) then rotate the outer half of the
fixing so that the eyelet can;t come off again unless you reverse the
procedure...? Picture =1000 words!! ;)

Jim K

On 11/11/10 19:09, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

yes!..I can picture that - but I should explain further - the level of
the sand is not upto (by 12" say) the top of the retaining wooden
sides - so a tarp over a beach ball / bin I expect would still end up
draping down inside the sand pit and so directing the rain into the
sand pit rather than outside of the retaining walls?

spose a means of anchoring the tarp to the outside of the retaining
walls could work - as long as the hooks or whatever were safe for the
kids clambering in and out past them.....? and it could be done up/
undone by a female or two and be "reliable"....

any thoughts on a safe lady proof method of so anchoring ? - eyelets
in tarp are common - but what child-safe things to attach to?

Ta
Jim K
toggles?

On Nov 11, 7:49 pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
On 11/11/10 19:09, Jim K wrote:

On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).

yes!..I can picture that - but I should explain further - the level of
the sand is not upto (by 12" say) the top of the retaining wooden
sides - so a tarp over a beach ball / bin I expect would still end up
draping down inside the sand pit and so directing the rain into the
sand pit rather than outside of the retaining walls?

spose a means of anchoring the tarp to the outside of the retaining
walls could work - as long as the hooks or whatever were safe for the
kids clambering in and out past them.....? and it could be done up/
undone by a female or two and be "reliable"....

any thoughts on a safe lady proof method of so anchoring ? - eyelets
in tarp are common - but what child-safe things to attach to?

Ta
Jim K

toggles?

"turn buttons" like on tonneau covers and boat covers etc

;)

http://www.jrprvinc.com/products/hard_curt44.jpg

but will they hold in a reasonably priced 5 X 4m tarp in stormy
weather ?
any tricks to making them stay and not rip out? maybe mount with some
other material sandwiched - like corner eyelets on some tarps?

Jim K

On Nov 11, 5:31*pm, Jim K wrote:
friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away) & safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use.

I was initially wondering abt some sort of hinged single pitch "roof"
on the longest wall side, tubular steel frame with tarpaulin attached
- don;t know what it would weigh once it was strong enough not to flex
though? and how to secure in the "open" position...images of
guillotined fingers....

I once had an estate car with a "load cover" that concertina'd up out
of the way and then when pulled out extended along two channels in the
load area of the estate covering the contents.....

how to replicate 12 ft wide!?! ;)

Anyone got any cunning ideas?

Jim K

Use a porous sheet and provide drainage at the bottom of the sandpit.
The sheet will stop the local cats ****ting in the sand and water will
drain through.

On Nov 11, 9:46 pm, cynic wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:31 pm, Jim K wrote:



friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away) & safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use.

I was initially wondering abt some sort of hinged single pitch "roof"
on the longest wall side, tubular steel frame with tarpaulin attached
- don;t know what it would weigh once it was strong enough not to flex
though? and how to secure in the "open" position...images of
guillotined fingers....

I once had an estate car with a "load cover" that concertina'd up out
of the way and then when pulled out extended along two channels in the
load area of the estate covering the contents.....

how to replicate 12 ft wide!?! ;)

Anyone got any cunning ideas?

Jim K

Use a porous sheet and provide drainage at the bottom of the sandpit.
The sheet will stop the local cats ****ting in the sand and water will
drain through.

yes he already suggested that to them but there's some issue/doubt as
to drainage capacity of surface under sandpit (school yard)...

Jim K

On Nov 11, 9:03 pm, Owain wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:31 pm, Jim K wrote:

friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

Some sort of horizontal tambour door of slats, use a big roller (oil
drum?) at one end. If it's mounted at an angle (so one end of the axle
is higher than the other) then the water should run down the slats and
off the side.

something like a garage roller door on the flat.

Should be strong enough for kids on the top. Padlock it shut when not
in use, and padlock the mechanism open when in use. Have a detachable
winding handle if needed to give enough leverage for the ladies to
manage it.

An electric motor might be overkill.

Owain

mmmm poss a bit overkill and bit much ££ I fear.

I don;t think there's any real safety issue when it's not in use, and
it's only used under supervision.

Cheers
Jim K

On Nov 11, 9:55*pm, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 11, 9:03 pm, Owain wrote:









On Nov 11, 5:31 pm, Jim K *wrote:

friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

Some sort of horizontal tambour door of slats, use a big roller (oil
drum?) at one end. If it's mounted at an angle (so one end of the axle
is higher than the other) then the water should run down the slats and
off the side.

something like a garage roller door on the flat.

Should be strong enough for kids on the top. Padlock it shut when not
in use, and padlock the mechanism open when in use. Have a detachable
winding handle if needed to give enough leverage for the ladies to
manage it.

An electric motor might be overkill.

Owain

mmmm poss a bit overkill and bit much ££ I fear.

I don;t think there's any real safety issue when it's not in use, and
it's only used under supervision.

Cheers
Jim K

How about these things screwed to the wood surround?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP7Ki...layer_embedded

the hook on the wall could be out of their reach so something simple
to put some eyelets through might work

fittings for sails from a boat shop
or for marquees.

Jim K laid this down on his screen :
On Nov 11, 7:12 pm, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:41 pm, Lee Nowell wrote:

On Nov 11, 5:34 pm, "js.b1" wrote:
Place a beach ball (or two) part filled with sand in the centre, then
put the tarpaulin over the top of it (them).
How about fixing one corner of the tarp to a hook in the corner where
the 2 walls meet (say 1.5m above the sand pit) then attach the other
corners to the remaining 3 corners of the sandpit (just below the top
of the sandpit). Any water etc. would run off and the pit should be
covered. Water could get between the tarp and the wall but would this
matter. When they want to "open" it they can either take it all off or
unclip the 3 sandbit ends and hook them on the wall hook out of the
way.

yes I can see that - tho - similar to the other tarp idea - what to
attach the tarp to (at the 3 demountable corners) that is also child
friendly..?

ta
Jim K

what are those fixings called where you poke them through an eyelet
(or better put the eyelet over them) then rotate the outer half of the
fixing so that the eyelet can;t come off again unless you reverse the
procedure...? Picture =1000 words!! ;)

Jim K

They used to use that fixing on motorbike sidecar canvas open tops and
the same method on open car covers.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Jim K" wrote in message
...

yes he already suggested that to them but there's some issue/doubt as
to drainage capacity of surface under sandpit (school yard)...

So where does the tarp drain?

what are those fixings called where you poke them through an eyelet
(or better put the eyelet over them) then rotate the outer half of the
fixing so that the eyelet can;t come off again unless you reverse the
procedure...? Picture =1000 words!! ;)

Jim K

Toggle

On Nov 11, 5:31*pm, Jim K wrote:

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

BTDT. A dome of stiff plastic tube (blue waterpipe) with tarp over it
was the solution to the ponding issue. Lightweight too. This was an
octagonal pit, but it shoudl work for 9 x 12. You can joint this stuff
by pre-drilling and screwing through into thinner plastic tube joiners
inside. The multi-way joiners were lashed-up from pipe over welded
aluminium spiders.

To hold it down there were large "tentpegs" that went through the tube
and into nuts buried in the timber. Rather than nuts, they were
actually aerospace Dzus fasteners - quicker to operate, less problem
with rusting or crud buildup. The tops were a large plastic wingnut
on a hemispherical dome, to avoid making a spike hazard.

We also made wall brackets to store it vertically when not in use.

On Nov 12, 12:48 am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:31 pm, Jim K wrote:

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

BTDT. A dome of stiff plastic tube (blue waterpipe) with tarp over it
was the solution to the ponding issue. Lightweight too. This was an
octagonal pit, but it shoudl work for 9 x 12. You can joint this stuff
by pre-drilling and screwing through into thinner plastic tube joiners
inside. The multi-way joiners were lashed-up from pipe over welded
aluminium spiders.

To hold it down there were large "tentpegs" that went through the tube
and into nuts buried in the timber. Rather than nuts, they were
actually aerospace Dzus fasteners - quicker to operate, less problem
with rusting or crud buildup. The tops were a large plastic wingnut
on a hemispherical dome, to avoid making a spike hazard.

We also made wall brackets to store it vertically when not in use.

mmm impressive! but was yours a freestanding sand pit?
and where did/do you store the lid when not on the pit? (space is at a
premium being a small yard area..)

also seems a shame not to make use of the walls around 2 sides of this
one

Cheers
Jim K

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:31:08 -0800 (PST), Jim K wrote:

what are those fixings called where you poke them through an eyelet
(or better put the eyelet over them) then rotate the outer half of the
fixing so that the eyelet can;t come off again unless you reverse the
procedure...? Picture =1000 words!! ;)

Antiluce?

http://www.whb.org.uk/acatalog/Anti_luce_Droplocks.html

If fixed to the timber edges they wouldn't be overly child friendly.

I like the KISS "stick a beach ball under the tarp and fix the
edges". Pity the sand pit is up against two walls, water will drain
into the pit but I guess keeping it completly dry would be impossible
anyway. One assumes there is some drainage from it otherwise it will
just become a pond...

I wonder of you could use large press studs? Batten on the wall with
a slight fall and press stud the tarp to it and along the other
edges.

http://www.supplydivision.co.uk/popfaste.htm

They have brass based fasteners so corrsion outside shouldn't be a
problem. Donno if they are big/strong enough. But bear in mind that
to stop cats "noseing" under/through the gaps between fixings you
might need to have 'em every foot or so. Double or triple the tarp
along the edges where you put the fixings through so they don't pull
through, spread the load with penny washers each side as well?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Nov 12, 8:13*am, Jim K wrote:

mmm impressive! but was yours a freestanding sand pit?

Yes - an octagon of sleepers. I think it was two (maybe three)
sleepers high, but it was buried / banked up around the outside so
that it was only one sleeper high outside.

and where did/do you store the lid when not on the pit?

Attached vertically to the end wall of the community centre, with the
same tentpeg attachments as held it down. It had to go somewhere, and
it had obvious aspirations to become a kite if it wasn't fastened. The
ease of handling this thing depended entirely on whether there was a
wind blowing! OTOH, it might be necessary to put the lid down during
a wind, but no-one really needed to take it off the pit when it was
windy. Very light, but handling in wind was a problem.

Eight pegs held it down, so I made twelve. Stuff for community groups
not only has to work, it has to work long-term without anyone looking
after it or repairing.

Cheap blue tarpaulin doesn't like holes in it, so instead of just
making holes and tie-wrapping it to the poles, I cut hemmed sleeves of
spare tarp (just a wide ribbon) and sewed these to the underneath.
Round the edges it was folded under and then sewn with a sailmaker's
needle and palm.


Another useful thing we made was a sand sifter. Take a wire mesh
rubbish bin and mount it sideways on a "concrete mixer" chassis
(welded bike tube and a manual handle) with a plywood hopper beneath.
This circulates between a number of local community groups with
sandpits. Good for cleaning rubbish and cat turds.

On Nov 11, 7:24 pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 11/11/2010 17:31, Jim K wrote:



friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away)& safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use...

How about a tarpaulin mounted onto a roller fitted part way up the wall
on one side? Unrolled, with the free end attached to the edge of the
pit, any rain would simply run off down the slope. A crank handle to
wind the tarpaulin up would allow just one person to put it away. It
could also be put over the pit quickly if rain came on suddenly.

The open end would need to have something like a triangular curtain,
which could be attached to the other edge of the pit when it is covered.
To put it away, that would need to be released from the pit edge, folded
back on top of the main cover and rolled up inside it. It would probably
be a good idea to have a way to fix the edge of the main cover to the
other wall, perhaps sme sort of track.

Colin Bignell

mmm sounds a tad more complex ;)
also how would one crank the roller? as the roller is up against a
wall...

cheers
Jim K

On 12/11/2010 11:42, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 11, 7:24 pm, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 11/11/2010 17:31, Jim K wrote:



friend of mine been asked if he can knock up some sort of cover for
the local nursery's sandpit.

It's a substantial wooden sleeper contruction abt 12 ft X 9ft X 18inch
high.

Problem they are having is a tarpaulin draped over it fills with rain
and is a) a pain to empty b) a hazard to the little ones.

They need the tarp (or something) to limit water, leaves and cat sh1t
etc getting to the sand.

The sand pit is built into a corner against two approx 5ft high walls.

The new "cover" has to be easily manageable by a couple of ladies,
whilst being wind-proof (i.e. not blowing off/away)& safe for the
kids when the sandpit is in use...

How about a tarpaulin mounted onto a roller fitted part way up the wall
on one side? Unrolled, with the free end attached to the edge of the
pit, any rain would simply run off down the slope. A crank handle to
wind the tarpaulin up would allow just one person to put it away. It
could also be put over the pit quickly if rain came on suddenly.

The open end would need to have something like a triangular curtain,
which could be attached to the other edge of the pit when it is covered.
To put it away, that would need to be released from the pit edge, folded
back on top of the main cover and rolled up inside it. It would probably
be a good idea to have a way to fix the edge of the main cover to the
other wall, perhaps sme sort of track.

Colin Bignell

mmm sounds a tad more complex ;)

Fixing one edge part way up the wall would give you a rain shedding
slope, whether you go for the complexity of a roller or not.

also how would one crank the roller? as the roller is up against a
wall...

A couple of bevel gears would solve that.

Colin Bignell

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:53:28 -0800 (PST), Jim K wrote:

"turn buttons" is what I was thinking of - like on old convertibles'
tonneau covers/hoods & boat covers.

Yeah they might work, saw something else today used to attach the
sides/roof of a market stall to the metal frame. Short loops of
bungee cord with a toggle at one end of the loop. Thread loop through
hole in tarp, around frame then around the toggle.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Nov 14, 10:19 pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:53:28 -0800 (PST), Jim K wrote:
"turn buttons" is what I was thinking of - like on old convertibles'
tonneau covers/hoods & boat covers.

Yeah they might work, saw something else today used to attach the
sides/roof of a market stall to the metal frame. Short loops of
bungee cord with a toggle at one end of the loop. Thread loop through
hole in tarp, around frame then around the toggle.

yeah thx - saw those too on a tarp website - presumed they had to have
something to be wrapped around (like the stall frame).

I reckon they are best using shock/bungee cord through the (possibly
extra) eyelets all around the tarp sides and arranging some child
friendly hooks low down on the outside of the access sides to hook
onto.

Leaving 2 sides attached all time and undo-ing the other 2 when access
required, large beach ball or 2 in middle - should be a goer

Cheers n thx to all
Jim K