Am 75% through a kitchen re-build. Now, the lurverly new halogen lights
we've bought from B&Q need to be fiited. Removed old fitting to see what I
assumed was the normal two wires (black and red). Fine, open box for shiney
new light fitting and 'SH*T', it's got an earth wire as well! Hmmm, who
nicked my earth cable in the attic? Had a wee peak behind the light switch
and ITS got an earth but none coming down from the attic! So, do I need to
crawl about in the attic to try and trace the wires back, add an extra earth
wire and strap it to a pipe, see where the light switch wire goes to and
connect it to that, set up the camping bed in the garage again?

Any advice to someone who HATES electricity appreciated.

Harry

In article ,
Novice DIY'er wrote:
Any advice to someone who HATES electricity appreciated.

People who hate particular types of DIY often bodge - because if they hate
that aspect they're unlikely to have learnt much about it.

So in this case I'd recommend a pro.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave,

Okay, maybe 'hates' was a little strong. Am quite willing, once I've turned
isolated the circuit, or more usually turned off the mains, to strip
wire/reconnect wires/use a multimeter/etc.

Harry


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Novice DIY'er wrote:
Any advice to someone who HATES electricity appreciated.

People who hate particular types of DIY often bodge - because if they hate
that aspect they're unlikely to have learnt much about it.

So in this case I'd recommend a pro.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Novice DIY'er" wrote
| Am 75% through a kitchen re-build. Now, the lurverly new halogen
| lights we've bought from B&Q need to be fiited. Removed old
| fitting to see what I assumed was the normal two wires
| (black and red).

There should always be an earth at every point.

| Fine, open box for shiney new light fitting and 'SH*T', it's
| got an earth wire as well! Hmmm, who nicked my earth cable
| in the attic? Had a wee peak behind the light switch
| and ITS got an earth but none coming down from the attic!

It's very possible that Bobby Bodgit the previous owner just cut the earth
wire back to the sheating of the twin-and-earth and it's not visible. If
there's any spare cable you can pull through that might be sufficient to
find the earth. It needs a piece of green-and-yellow-sleeving on it.

| So, do I need to crawl about in the attic to try and trace
| the wires back,

Enough might pull down through the hole.

| add an extra earth wire and strap it to a pipe,

Err no, run it back to the main earth point on the consumer unit. However if
this point isn't earthed are any of the others? What sort of condition is
the wiring in generally?

| see where the light switch wire goes to and
| connect it to that,

You would have to check that whatever you connect it to really *is* earthed.

| set up the camping bed in the garage again?

Take the lights back to B&Q and buy some double-insulated ones?

Owain

In article ,
"Novice DIY'er" writes:
Am 75% through a kitchen re-build. Now, the lurverly new halogen lights
we've bought from B&Q need to be fiited. Removed old fitting to see what I
assumed was the normal two wires (black and red). Fine, open box for shiney
new light fitting and 'SH*T', it's got an earth wire as well! Hmmm, who
nicked my earth cable in the attic? Had a wee peak behind the light switch
and ITS got an earth but none coming down from the attic! So, do I need to
crawl about in the attic to try and trace the wires back, add an extra earth
wire and strap it to a pipe, see where the light switch wire goes to and
connect it to that, set up the camping bed in the garage again?

If you're lucky, you can just trim the cable back a bit more
and find someone cut the earth short. If your lighting circuit
isn't earthed, then you will need to take the lamp back to
B&Q and choose a double insulated one which doesn't need
earthing, and also note that you need to get your lighting
circuit rewired at some time (or rewire it first). You don't
"strap it to a pipe".

You should also verify the earth is actually connected at the
other end.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If your lighting circuit
isn't earthed, then you will need to take the lamp back to
B&Q and choose a double insulated one which doesn't need
earthing, and also note that you need to get your lighting
circuit rewired at some time (or rewire it first).

Can I ask why? This may be being naive, but if all your light fittings +
switches are double insulated, then is there anything inherently wrong
with a non-earthed lighting circuit?

--
Grunff

Thanks for al the replies. Will act upon the replies. I have a question
though, what does it mean when you say an appliance is 'double insulated'? I
have a feeling the light I 'fitted' in the other room was this since there
were only two cables and it works!

Harry

In article ,
Grunff writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If your lighting circuit
isn't earthed, then you will need to take the lamp back to
B&Q and choose a double insulated one which doesn't need
earthing, and also note that you need to get your lighting
circuit rewired at some time (or rewire it first).

Can I ask why? This may be being naive, but if all your light fittings +
switches are double insulated, then is there anything inherently wrong
with a non-earthed lighting circuit?

It's going to be an old installation. It is a requirement that a
CPC (earth) is carried in all wiring for some considerable time.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
"Novice DIY'er" writes:
Thanks for al the replies. Will act upon the replies. I have a question
though, what does it mean when you say an appliance is 'double insulated'? I
have a feeling the light I 'fitted' in the other room was this since there
were only two cables and it works!

It means it was designed to be safe with no earth connection.
There are always two layers of insulation between live parts
and anything you could touch. There will be a symbol on it
somewhere with two squares, one inside the other, and no
provision for connecting an earth.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

It's going to be an old installation. It is a requirement that a
CPC (earth) is carried in all wiring for some considerable time.

Ok, good point.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
If you're lucky, you can just trim the cable back a bit more
and find someone cut the earth short.

But then they've likely done the same thing further down the circuit...

If you find this situation, test the earth - don't just rely on it being
connected.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Can I ask why? This may be being naive, but if all your light fittings +
switches are double insulated, then is there anything inherently wrong
with a non-earthed lighting circuit?

The snag with this is exactly what's happened. You at a later stage decide
to change a fitting for one that needs an earth - or possibly more likely,
change the switches to metal ones.

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Novice DIY'er" writes:
Thanks for al the replies. Will act upon the replies. I have a question
though, what does it mean when you say an appliance is 'double
insulated'? I
have a feeling the light I 'fitted' in the other room was this since
there
were only two cables and it works!

It means it was designed to be safe with no earth connection.
There are always two layers of insulation between live parts
and anything you could touch. There will be a symbol on it
somewhere with two squares, one inside the other, and no
provision for connecting an earth.

Also please bear in mind that if you connect up your new light ignoring the
earth connection, that will 'work' too!; this is a safety issue here.

I certainly think it's worth investigating the fixed cable in the attic; it
seems strange that you would have earthed cable going to the switch and
non-earthed cable elsewhere. As others have said, in the olden days
non-earthed lighting was the norm, but your apparent mixture of the two
sounds odd. My guess is someone's just (wrongly) chopped off the earth wire
in the cable leading to your light fitting, because the previous fitting
maybe didn't need an earth.

David

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
I certainly think it's worth investigating the fixed cable in the attic;
it seems strange that you would have earthed cable going to the switch
and non-earthed cable elsewhere.

It might well just be made off inside the switch box, but not connected at
the rose. I've come across this. Perhaps to pass the old visual inspection.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

David and Dave,

Due to family pressures I didn't get the chance to crawl around in the attic
space. Did look behind the light switch and there is an earth although I
think it was just looped around the connecting screw (one of two screws
holding cover to the wall unit). Will crawl up into the attic today and see
whats up there. I do know where the main earth from the fuse box leads to up
into the attic.

Thanks again,

Harry



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Lobster wrote:
I certainly think it's worth investigating the fixed cable in the attic;
it seems strange that you would have earthed cable going to the switch
and non-earthed cable elsewhere.

It might well just be made off inside the switch box, but not connected at
the rose. I've come across this. Perhaps to pass the old visual
inspection.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.