on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"

Is it externally rated or am in dispute?

Ta
Jim K

Jim K wrote:
on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"

Is it externally rated or am in dispute?

Ta
Jim K

At the least, I would expect it to be black and to have a thicker sheath
than normal Cat5.

Note the you should maintain a minimum bend radius of 50mm or so and
preferably higher when clipping Cat5.

Can you post a picture somewhere?

On 1 Nov, 17:37, Dave Osborne wrote:
Jim K wrote:
on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"

Is it externally rated or am in dispute?

Ta
Jim K

At the least, I would expect it to be black and to have a thicker sheath
than normal Cat5.

well it's black but seems pretty ropily sheathed compared to freebies
that came with routers etc....

Note the you should maintain a minimum bend radius of 50mm or so and
preferably higher when clipping Cat5.

Can you post a picture somewhere?

not easily ;(

Jim K

On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"

Well, there are things called search engines, which quickly reveal
that ISO 11801 is about wiring for premises, so presumably inside
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36491.

The cable I referred to has a data sheet at
http://www.netshop.co.uk/downloads/900146/5e%20outdoor%20cable.pdf
which shows it as being marked for exterior use on the sheath. There
is no guarantee that all such cable is marked like that, though I
imagine most is.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On 1 Nov, 18:43, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"

Well, there are things called search engines, which quickly reveal
that ISO 11801 is about wiring for premises, so presumably inside
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36491.

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

More usefully, though still confusingly, when I searched (before
asking on here), the first hit was Wikipedia which says:-
"The standard was designed for use within commercial premises that may
consist of either a single building or of multiple buildings on a
campus."

(campus n. , pl. , -puses . The grounds of a school, college,
university, or hospital. )

so am I to assume that ordinary Cat5 can be used to connect one campus
building to another? or that ISO 11801 is a red herring?

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On 1 Nov, 18:43, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

on the advice of others here, I ebayed some "external" cat5e cable for
an outside run - came in an anoymous plastic wrapper - no details
except what is on the cable "system cable utp Cat 5e 4 pairs 26awg
stranded iso 11801 100mhz"
Well, there are things called search engines, which quickly reveal
that ISO 11801 is about wiring for premises, so presumably inside
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36491.

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

More usefully, though still confusingly, when I searched (before
asking on here), the first hit was Wikipedia which says:-
"The standard was designed for use within commercial premises that may
consist of either a single building or of multiple buildings on a
campus."

(campus n. , pl. , -puses . The grounds of a school, college,
university, or hospital. )

so am I to assume that ordinary Cat5 can be used to connect one campus
building to another? or that ISO 11801 is a red herring?

Jim K

There is a (both theoretical and practical) limit of 100m on the length
of a piece of Cat5/Cat5e. To allow for patching at either end, the
standard allows for a piece of installed Cat5/5e to be no longer than
90m. If you can join two buildings on a campus with a piece of Cat5/5e
that's no longer than 90m, then fill your boots. However, campus
buildings are usually connected by fibre these days.

Note that "ordinary" external grade Cat5/5e is not suitable for use in
ductwork that is permanently waterlogged. If you wanted to use Cat5/5e
to join buildings using underground ductwork, you would normally buy
cable that is over-sheathed with a fully waterproof and (for the
purposes of pulling the cable) scuff-resistant jacket.

On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:05:10 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36491.

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

That link provides me with the information I consider important.
Before the offer to purchase it says

"ISO/IEC 11801:2002
Information technology -- Generic cabling for customer premises"

which gives a clue.

More usefully, though still confusingly, when I searched (before
asking on here), the first hit was Wikipedia which says:-
"The standard was designed for use within commercial premises that may
consist of either a single building or of multiple buildings on a
campus."

so am I to assume that ordinary Cat5 can be used to connect one campus
building to another? or that ISO 11801 is a red herring?

I read that too, before my earlier posting. You wrongly exclude a
third option, that both are right.

"Internal" cable can be used to connect buildings, provided it is
suitably protected from the external influences it will be exposed
to. For example this may be by enclosing it in conduit.

An alternative is to use cable suitable for exterior use. This will
need less or no protection. As I recall this was discussed in the
earlier thread.

I note that you had no response to the other part of my message,
which directly answered the question you claim to be asking as far
as I can

"The cable I referred to has a data sheet at
http://www.netshop.co.uk/downloads/900146/5e%20outdoor%20cable.pdf
which shows it as being marked for exterior use on the sheath. There
is no guarantee that all such cable is marked like that, though I
imagine most is. "





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 01:51:24 +0000 someone who may be Dave Osborne
wrote this:-

However, campus
buildings are usually connected by fibre these days.

Not just for length issues either. Fibre cables are less prone to
interference and have some other advantages.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On 2 Nov, 08:07, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:05:10 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=36491.

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

That link provides me with the information I consider important.
Before the offer to purchase it says

"ISO/IEC 11801:2002
Information technology -- Generic cabling for customer premises"

which gives a clue.

mmmm - are you proposing that "premises" refers to inside buildings?

More usefully, though still confusingly, when I searched (before
asking on here), the first hit was Wikipedia which says:-
"The standard was designed for use within commercial premises that may
consist of either a single building or of multiple buildings on a
campus."

so am I to assume that ordinary Cat5 can be used to connect one campus
building to another? or that ISO 11801 is a red herring?

I read that too, before my earlier posting. You wrongly exclude a
third option, that both are right.

"Internal" cable can be used to connect buildings, provided it is
suitably protected from the external influences it will be exposed
to. For example this may be by enclosing it in conduit.

I have also already read (using those splendid search engine things
you promote) that using ordinary cat5 in conduit is not recommended
due to risks of waterlogging and degradation of signal....
which brings me back to the point I am still asking :- buying external
Cat5 cable is there is anyway to reliably identify it?


I note that you had no response to the other part of my message,
which directly answered the question you claim to be asking as far
as I can

oh dear dear - you mean that googly random picture of one make of
cable with "external" written on it?
is that ISO or whatever "standard" then is it?

(I can see how you got to where you are....)

Jim K

On 1 Nov, 19:05, Jim K wrote:

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

If you do want to read the standard, there is probably no need to pay
for it - just download it as a pdf at your public library. There will
almost certainly be a BS EN version available from the British
Standards Institution website. Most library services have a
subscription which allows the downloading of secured pdf images from
BSI.

John

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 01:19:33 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

I have also already read (using those splendid search engine things
you promote) that using ordinary cat5 in conduit is not recommended
due to risks of waterlogging and degradation of signal....

Stop digging. If people care to read back in this newsgroup then
they will see that it is not recommended to use it in conduit
underground. You have gone from that to all external installations.
Above ground there is something rather wrong with the installation
if the conduit is full of water.

Any installation in conduit above ground will need to observe
minimum bending radii and exclude water, as part of a proper
installation. Without some form of protection from the various
external influences then the life of the cable outdoors is unlikely
to be great.

oh dear dear - you mean that googly random picture of one make of
cable with "external" written on it?

You may try to dismiss a manufacturer's data sheet downloaded from a
reasonably well known network supplier's web site in those terms.
However, in the absence of anything better I'll stick with that and
my interpretation of it.

is that ISO or whatever "standard" then is it?

Trying to distort what others have typed is the resort of those with
no better arguments. In this case I typed, "There is no guarantee
that all such cable is marked like that, though I imagine most is."
I didn't claim anything about a standard, just suggested that most
manufacturers would mark their cable to say it is suitable for
exterior use.

ISTM that you have not got external grade cable, for whatever
reason. I may be wrong, but I'm not going to do research for you to
come to a definitive answer. Instead of blaming the messenger you
would do better to get on with the job.

AFAIR you only wanted a few metres. It can be purchased new for 82p
per metre from Netshop [1] and that is what I would have done
http://www.netshop.co.uk/productcategorydetail.aspx?categoryid=51540.
I wouldn't even bother chasing the supplier of the cable you already
have, not worth the hassle in my view.

You may have the last word if you wish.



[1] there will be postage on that too, probably £3.95.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On 2 Nov, 12:38, David Hansen wrote:
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 01:19:33 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

I have also already read (using those splendid search engine things
you promote) that using ordinary cat5 in conduit is not recommended
due to risks of waterlogging and degradation of signal....

Stop digging. If people care to read back in this newsgroup then
they will see that it is not recommended to use it in conduit
underground. You have gone from that to all external installations.
Above ground there is something rather wrong with the installation
if the conduit is full of water.

Any installation in conduit above ground will need to observe
minimum bending radii and exclude water, as part of a proper
installation. Without some form of protection from the various
external influences then the life of the cable outdoors is unlikely
to be great.

conduit above ground outisde?? I think you are digging this up
yourself but anyway.......



oh dear dear - you mean that googly random picture of one make of
cable with "external" written on it?

You may try to dismiss a manufacturer's data sheet downloaded from a
reasonably well known network supplier's web site in those terms.

I did, one brand from one manufacturer means nothing but anyway

However, in the absence of anything better I'll stick with that and
my interpretation of it.

but anyway

is that ISO or whatever "standard" then is it?

Trying to distort what others have typed is the resort of those with
no better arguments. In this case I typed, "There is no guarantee
that all such cable is marked like that, though I imagine most is."
I didn't claim anything about a standard, just suggested that most
manufacturers would mark their cable to say it is suitable for
exterior use.

you brought standadrss in to this in a rather smug way and have done
nothing to demonstrate why - trolling?

ISTM that you have not got external grade cable, for whatever
reason. I may be wrong, but I'm not going to do research for you to
come to a definitive answer. Instead of blaming the messenger you
would do better to get on with the job.

messenger implies message - you don;t seem interested in conveying
anythimng useful -as usual
ISTR you are in"the trade" aren;t you? presumably trying to subvert
DIYers back into your masonic chums hands?

AFAIR you only wanted a few metres. It can be purchased new for 82p
per metre from Netshop [1] and that is what I would have done
http://www.netshop.co.uk/productcategorydetail.aspx?categoryid=51540.
I wouldn't even bother chasing the supplier of the cable you already
have, not worth the hassle in my view.

but anyway

You may have the last word if you wish.

**** off?

Jim K

On 2 Nov, 11:11, John Walliker wrote:
On 1 Nov, 19:05, Jim K wrote:

mmm that link appears to merely offer the opportunity to purchase a
copy of the ISO standard for 200 odd swiss francs?

If you do want to read the standard, there is probably no need to pay
for it - just download it as a pdf at your public library. There will
almost certainly be a BS EN version available from the British
Standards Institution website. Most library services have a
subscription which allows the downloading of secured pdf images from
BSI.

John

ta didn't know that, but expect it wouldn;t contain the detail I am
hunting, or if it does there would be no BS "requirement" for cable
manufacturers to put it on the cable - so I'd be no further forward

Jim K