My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
....and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

David Robinson wrote:

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

Whilst keyless chucks are convenient, the ones I have require a
button to be depressed, preventing shaft rotation, whilst the
chuck is tightened. At the moment I can do this OK, but I have a
slight worry that if my thumb grip ever weakens, I'll have
trouble getting it fully tight.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
David Robinson wrote:

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

Whilst keyless chucks are convenient, the ones I have require a
button to be depressed, preventing shaft rotation, whilst the
chuck is tightened. At the moment I can do this OK, but I have a
slight worry that if my thumb grip ever weakens, I'll have
trouble getting it fully tight.

Chris
--

We discussed this topic not long ago, and this is the first I have heard of
a keyless chuck with a button on it?

Summing up what was said last time, there are several different types of
keyless chuck. Some seem to just rely on brute force to tighten them,
whilst others have a better ratcheting action that clicks as you tighten
them These hold better than the basic ones and are more expensive, but
unless you are using hammer a lot, even the cheap type is up to the job of
most drilling and screwing tasks.

The OP should keep the chucks from his old drills as spares: then he will
have the best of both worlds.

S

On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:
My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

Have a look at the Bosch GBH2-26DFR

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/bo...v-pid8573.html

It's a mains sds drill with an interchangeable keyless chuck. Lift a
collar to pop off either the sds or keyless chuck, push on the other
chuck. No need to even remove the bit currently in the chuck. The
keyless chuck is the best I've seen anywhere on a handheld drill (only
industrial pedestal drills have better IME).

Note that you want the DFR model, not the DRE - which comes without
the keyless chuck.

(My experience is with the older GBH2-24 model, which I've owned for
10 years - but I beleive the newer model is just restyling and a
better mains lead).

On 1 Nov, 18:18, " wrote:
On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:



My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

Have a look at the Bosch GBH2-26DFR

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/bo...sds+-hammer-dr...

It's a mains sds drill with an interchangeable keyless chuck. Lift a
collar to pop off either the sds or keyless chuck, push on the other
chuck. No need to even remove the bit currently in the chuck. The
keyless chuck is the best I've seen anywhere on a handheld drill (only
industrial pedestal drills have better IME).

Note that you want the DFR model, not the DRE - which comes without
the keyless chuck.

(My experience is with the older GBH2-24 model, which I've owned for
10 years - but I beleive the newer model is just restyling and a
better mains lead).

Nice video of the chuck change he

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/bosch-gbh2...ank-240v-p2969

On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 09:42:29 -0700, David Robinson wrote:
I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can you
put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

I've got a DeWalt mains (well, 120VAC here in the US drill which has a
keyless chuck, and I must say that I've been impressed with it so far.

I've had it for around 4 years now and it sees almost daily use, with a
variety of materials and drill bits, and I think in that time I've only
had it lose grip on me a couple of times (and then just because I was
being lazy about tightening it, rather than it being a wear or design
issue)

Yes, it'll take normal wood bits happily - anything up to around 1/2" in
diameter.

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed chuck,
which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier and now
just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of those around
now.

In principle, I like the idea of a keyed chuck better, but on a hand
drill I'd like a way of stowing the key with the drill, rather than
having to keep it separately in a pocket, toolbox etc. - maybe they all
do that now though (my last mains drill with a chuck key was some ancient
B&D thing from nineteen-seventy-mumble)

wrote:
On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:
My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power
for hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also
having two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from
nothing up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action
- all the standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

Have a look at the Bosch GBH2-26DFR

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/bo...v-pid8573.html

It's a mains sds drill with an interchangeable keyless chuck. Lift a
collar to pop off either the sds or keyless chuck, push on the other
chuck. No need to even remove the bit currently in the chuck. The
keyless chuck is the best I've seen anywhere on a handheld drill (only
industrial pedestal drills have better IME).

Note that you want the DFR model, not the DRE - which comes without
the keyless chuck.

(My experience is with the older GBH2-24 model, which I've owned for
10 years - but I beleive the newer model is just restyling and a
better mains lead).

Looks lurvely.. but not 'mid range' pricewise & a bit on the 'long' side..

I've got a Hitachi Fdv16vb2 Hammer Drill 550w which is superb. Compact,
light, bloody powerful, excellent keyless chuck, useful case.

Picked it up in B&Q for about £55, not sure if they still do them.

http://www.powertools2u.co.uk/Percus...FaP92AodZVC2hg


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Nov 1, 4:42*pm, David Robinson
wrote:
My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I was in the same situation several months ago, and reached quickly
for the online catalogues. But was advised that since I had an SDS and
a cordless, I probably wouldnt need a vanilla mains drill. Well, I do,
but my ancient standby drill seems to have filled the need fine - its
a more limited need due to the other 2 tools, so I must be one of very
few people on here that's gone back to using a 1960s mains drill.
Between the 3 tools it seems I can do it all.


NT

On 1 Nov, 23:54, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 1, 4:42*pm, David Robinson
wrote:



My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I was in the same situation several months ago, and reached quickly
for the online catalogues. But was advised that since I had an SDS and
a cordless, I probably wouldnt need a vanilla mains drill. Well, I do,
but my ancient standby drill seems to have filled the need fine - its
a more limited need due to the other 2 tools, so I must be one of very
few people on here that's gone back to using a 1960s mains drill.
Between the 3 tools it seems I can do it all.

NT

The only "fill-in" I found I needed between various cordless drills/
drivers and my sds-with-interchangeable-chuck, was something with
really high torque to driver large auger bits into wood.

I ended up with a keyed-chuck dewalt mixer-drill. Superb device, but
quite a price for a niche-use.

I wished I had been able to buy the Wickes high torque drill (actually
a rebadged Kress), but that reputed-gem had been discontinued.

Spamlet wrote:

"Chris J Dixon" wrote

Whilst keyless chucks are convenient, the ones I have require a
button to be depressed, preventing shaft rotation, whilst the
chuck is tightened. At the moment I can do this OK, but I have a
slight worry that if my thumb grip ever weakens, I'll have
trouble getting it fully tight.

We discussed this topic not long ago, and this is the first I have heard of
a keyless chuck with a button on it?

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. I have a couple of drills, both of
which have a button on the drill body to stop the shaft rotating
whilst the chuck is tightened.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:
My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I had my first keyless drill a few years ago. It was OK for a while
but now slips ie often won't grip the drills. If you look at them,
the angle of the chuck jaws is much less than with a keyed chuck, this
is how they achieve the grip with less tightening torque. It's nice
not searching for the key or having bits of string attaching it.
Your new drill won't last twenty years, most are absolute crap even
the "good" makes all come from China. It's impossible to tell which is
the best and models constantly change so you can't ask someone. Apart
from the most minor repairs (eg new flex or clear out the dust) they
can't be economically repaired. You just chuck them out. It doesn't
really matter what you buy, it will be pot luck. I have had some real
**** and some have been OK. But randomly.

Maybe I've been lucky but I've not experienced the problems that
reputedly bedevil keyless chucks - even on cheap drills.

If you're not in a hurry, I'd look for an offer on a rebadged Kress at
Wickes. The one-handed keyless chuck on that is excellent.

On 2 Nov, 07:55, harry wrote:
On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:









My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I had my first keyless drill a few years ago. It was OK for a while
but now slips ie often won't grip the drills. * If you look at them,
the angle of the chuck jaws is much less than with a keyed chuck, this
is how they achieve the grip with less tightening torque. *It's nice
not searching for the key or having bits of string attaching it.
Your new drill won't last twenty years, most are absolute crap even
the "good" makes all come from China. It's impossible to tell which is
the best and models constantly change so you can't ask someone. *Apart
from the most minor repairs (eg new flex or clear out the dust) they
can't be economically repaired. You just chuck them out. *It doesn't
really matter what you buy, it will be pot luck. I have had some real
**** and some have been OK. *But randomly.

Useful thread on chuck types. I recently bought an older style bench
drill (Fobco Star) which is fitted with a 3/8" Jacobs chuck. I
decided to look at getting a 1/2" chuck and thought I'd better check
the thread first so I walloped it one to unscrew it and the chuck
nearly lost itself in the darkest corner of the workshop when it flew
off - it's on a taper mount !

I asked a knowledgeable mechanical engineer yesterday and his opinion
was to go with a keyless reckoning on about £30 for the chuck. But
then I'm not going to be using it in reverse.
Rob

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 07:01:35 +0000, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. I have a couple of drills, both of
which have a button on the drill body to stop the shaft rotating
whilst the chuck is tightened.


You sure its a drill and not a router?


--

On Nov 2, 2:14*am, " wrote:
On 1 Nov, 23:54, Tabby wrote:



On Nov 1, 4:42*pm, David Robinson
wrote:

My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I was in the same situation several months ago, and reached quickly
for the online catalogues. But was advised that since I had an SDS and
a cordless, I probably wouldnt need a vanilla mains drill. Well, I do,
but my ancient standby drill seems to have filled the need fine - its
a more limited need due to the other 2 tools, so I must be one of very
few people on here that's gone back to using a 1960s mains drill.
Between the 3 tools it seems I can do it all.

NT

The only "fill-in" I found I needed between various cordless drills/
drivers and my sds-with-interchangeable-chuck, was something with
really high torque to driver large auger bits into wood.


Thats exactly what my oldie has spent most of its time doing. Despite
being 2 hundred and something watts, it drives a 1" auger into tough
wood without any hesitation. So far I've even managed without the
reverse function, as I've mostly been drilling until the hole goes
through. For the occasional blind hole, manual rotation of the bit
half to 1 turn has been enough to unstick it. I was surprised it does
an inch auger, but it does it easily.


NT

On 2 Nov, 09:19, robgraham wrote:
On 2 Nov, 07:55, harry wrote:





On 1 Nov, 16:42, David Robinson
wrote:

My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I had my first keyless drill a few years ago. It was OK for a while
but now slips ie often won't grip the drills. * If you look at them,
the angle of the chuck jaws is much less than with a keyed chuck, this
is how they achieve the grip with less tightening torque. *It's nice
not searching for the key or having bits of string attaching it.
Your new drill won't last twenty years, most are absolute crap even
the "good" makes all come from China. It's impossible to tell which is
the best and models constantly change so you can't ask someone. *Apart
from the most minor repairs (eg new flex or clear out the dust) they
can't be economically repaired. You just chuck them out. *It doesn't
really matter what you buy, it will be pot luck. I have had some real
**** and some have been OK. *But randomly.

Useful thread on chuck types. *I recently bought an older style bench
drill (Fobco Star) which is fitted with a 3/8" Jacobs chuck. *I
decided to look at getting a 1/2" chuck and thought I'd better check
the thread first so I walloped it one to unscrew it and the chuck
nearly lost itself in the darkest corner of the workshop when it flew
off - it's on a taper mount !

I asked a knowledgeable mechanical engineer yesterday and his opinion
was to go with a keyless reckoning on about £30 for the chuck. *But
then I'm not going to be using it in reverse.
Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Most bench drill have chucks on a Morse taper. It's a tradition.
There's a slot and a taper wedge to drive in to remove the chuck. The
same Morse taper is used on head and tailstocks on lathes.

The Other Mike wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 07:01:35 +0000, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. I have a couple of drills, both of
which have a button on the drill body to stop the shaft rotating
whilst the chuck is tightened.

You sure its a drill and not a router?

PSB 700 RES

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 2 Nov, 10:45, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:14*am, " wrote:



On 1 Nov, 23:54, Tabby wrote:

On Nov 1, 4:42*pm, David Robinson
wrote:

My old Back and Decker hammer drill died on Sunday. It was 20 years
old, and it's had some serious use over the last 6 months (and
occasional use before that), but I think it finally choked on masonry
dust and overheated when run almost continuously for a couple of
hours. I'll know better next time! ;-)

I've borrowed (and intend to buy) a cordless drill, mostly for screw
driving. I also have a cheap SDS which I use mostly for chiselling.

I _think_ I also want a standard mains drill. Certainly there are
plenty of jobs where the cord is no problem, and having full power for
hours without changing the batteries is a huge benefit. Also having
two drills is very helpful sometimes.

Reversible, varispeed by selector and also by trigger pull (i.e.
selector selects max allowed speed, trigger lets you vary from nothing
up to this speed), variable clutch, switchable hammer action - all the
standard stuff.

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

It seems there are at least a couple of types of keyless chucks, and
obviously different qualities. My old drill was a standard keyed
chuck, which I was quite happy with - but if keyed chucks are easier
and now just as good, I'll look at them - there seems to be more of
those around now.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm
...and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

Cheers,
David.

I was in the same situation several months ago, and reached quickly
for the online catalogues. But was advised that since I had an SDS and
a cordless, I probably wouldnt need a vanilla mains drill. Well, I do,
but my ancient standby drill seems to have filled the need fine - its
a more limited need due to the other 2 tools, so I must be one of very
few people on here that's gone back to using a 1960s mains drill.
Between the 3 tools it seems I can do it all.

NT

The only "fill-in" I found I needed between various cordless drills/
drivers and my sds-with-interchangeable-chuck, was something with
really high torque to driver large auger bits into wood.

Thats exactly what my oldie has spent most of its time doing. Despite
being 2 hundred and something watts, it drives a 1" auger into tough
wood without any hesitation. So far I've even managed without the
reverse function, as I've mostly been drilling until the hole goes
through. For the occasional blind hole, manual rotation of the bit
half to 1 turn has been enough to unstick it. I was surprised it does
an inch auger, but it does it easily.

NT

I guess making a gearbox to gear down a motor to really low-revs/high-
torque is expensive - particularly if it's built to last.

Thanks everyone.

On 2 Nov, 18:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2010 16:42, David Robinson wrote:

Question is, should I go keyed or keyless?

Good keyless chucks are fine IME. The one on my Makita 18V combi grips
as well as any keyed chuck I have used (although note I have never tried
a ballraced keyed chuck). Its a single handed one, ratchet action (drill
has an auto spindle lock), made by Rhom.

The two handed ones with counter rotation rings and no ratchet action
are less good - but ok on lower power drills.

I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't answer stupid questions like: can
you put normal wood drill bits into a keyless chuck?

yup. Round or hex shank.

Thanks.

It also raises stupid questions like: if keyless chucks are supposed
to be less reliable in reverse, how come they work fine on
screwdriving tasks?

I have not noticed any difference in forward or reverse gripping power.
If you are driving lots of sizeable screws (i.e. 1 1/2" and over) then
you might find a cordless impact driver a better choice for that task.

I'll probably go for a mid-range tool since the last mig-range tool
lasted 20 years...
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm

Only thing to keep in mind is that the world is full of really old B&Ds
that are still going. Not sure the current crop will have the same
longevity!

I fear this is true. Last year I finally gave up on a B+Q plane from
1981 which had been left to rot under a leaking flat roof in the late
1990s yet still worked! Difficult to find the blades and the dust bag
rotted through, but otherwise just kept going!

....and they don't scream "steal me" - though the Makita right-angled
drill I bought seems in a different league in terms of quality and
robustness - time will tell.

Any suggestions / experience / advice welcome.

What are your main intended uses?

Well, normally I just drill the occasional hole through a brick wall
or wooden joist to put a wire or pipe through, and of course put the
proverbial shelf up! More recently, I've been building stud-partition
walls, putting extractor fans through outside walls, mixing tile
cement, and generally thrashing the thing. I'll also be boarding a
loft, but expect to use a cordless to drive all those screws in.

So the answer is "whatever comes along in the next ten years" - and I
have no way of predicting that!


My normal approach would be to buy some cheap rubbish to see if I
liked the thing, and then buy something better if needed. I don't
think that will work here - from all the advice on here, it seems
likely that a cheap keyless chuck will send me back to a keyed chuck,
and a cheap cordless device will send me back to a mains one - whereas
a _decent_ keyless, and maybe even cordless, might be spot on. That's
a lot of money to spend if it isn't though.

Cheers,
David.

On Nov 4, 12:31*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/11/2010 10:46, David Robinson wrote:
On 2 Nov, 18:36, John *wrote:

What are your main intended uses?

Well, normally I just drill the occasional hole through a brick wall
or wooden joist to put a wire or pipe through, and of course put the
proverbial shelf up! More recently, I've been building stud-partition
walls, putting extractor fans through outside walls, mixing tile
cement, and generally thrashing the thing. I'll also be boarding a
loft, but expect to use a cordless to drive all those screws in.

So the answer is "whatever comes along in the next ten years" - and I
have no way of predicting that!

To be honest you have a few conflicting requirements there - in
particular the extractor vent cutting... (and possibly the mixing). One
thing to watch on more basic ungeared mains drills is that they can't
deliver much torque at low speeds, and more to the point can't cool
themselves adequately while doing it. Something with a gearbox as well
as electronic speed control does much better in this respect.

Most of those tasks I would do with my Mikita 18V combi - including
lighter mixing tasks like a bag of plaster. Using a coredrillfor a fan
vent however I would use my SDS or coredrill. Generally I find the 18V
is my most used and flexibledrill.

I've been looking at these two...

Makita 8391DWPE (£100, 2 NiCad batteries)

Makita BHP451RFE (£250+, 3-speed, 2 Li-Ion batteries)

I think I can do without the third speed, but I'm worried that the
NiCad batteries won't last that long, and will cost as much as the
drill to replace. But £250 for a drill seems a bit mad! I know it's
wonderful and everything, but that's a lot of money.

Am I wrong to worry about the NiCad batteries? Or would I be better to
buy a cheaper drill but with Li-Ion batteries?

Cheers,
David.

In article
,
David Robinson wrote:
Am I wrong to worry about the NiCad batteries? Or would I be better to
buy a cheaper drill but with Li-Ion batteries?

I'm not sure if there's any difference in the length of time NiCads or
LiIon batteries last - ie number of cycles. Depends more on the quality of
them?

--
*With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

David Robinson wrote:
On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/11/2010 10:46, David Robinson wrote:
On 2 Nov, 18:36, John wrote:

What are your main intended uses?

Well, normally I just drill the occasional hole through a brick wall
or wooden joist to put a wire or pipe through, and of course put the
proverbial shelf up! More recently, I've been building
stud-partition walls, putting extractor fans through outside walls,
mixing tile cement, and generally thrashing the thing. I'll also be
boarding a loft, but expect to use a cordless to drive all those
screws in.

So the answer is "whatever comes along in the next ten years" - and
I have no way of predicting that!

To be honest you have a few conflicting requirements there - in
particular the extractor vent cutting... (and possibly the mixing).
One thing to watch on more basic ungeared mains drills is that they
can't deliver much torque at low speeds, and more to the point can't
cool themselves adequately while doing it. Something with a gearbox
as well as electronic speed control does much better in this respect.

Most of those tasks I would do with my Mikita 18V combi - including
lighter mixing tasks like a bag of plaster. Using a coredrillfor a
fan vent however I would use my SDS or coredrill. Generally I find
the 18V is my most used and flexibledrill.

I've been looking at these two...

Makita 8391DWPE (£100, 2 NiCad batteries)

Have a look at the Site version (made by Makita) £18 less with 3 batts.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/59749/...ss-Combi-Drill

Makita BHP451RFE (£250+, 3-speed, 2 Li-Ion batteries)

Bit of an overkill for DIY.

I think I can do without the third speed, but I'm worried that the
NiCad batteries won't last that long, and will cost as much as the
drill to replace. But £250 for a drill seems a bit mad! I know it's
wonderful and everything, but that's a lot of money.

Am I wrong to worry about the NiCad batteries? Or would I be better to
buy a cheaper drill but with Li-Ion batteries?

Battery quality matters a whole lot, as does the quality & 'intelligence' of
the charger. Thats what you pay for with brand names & don't get on
cheapies.

I ran a 12v Makita driver & a 12v Makita impact driver in daily use for the
best part of 4 years on 1.3 a/hr NiCds before they gave up - they did a ****
load of work, including many big decking jobs.

Its worth going for a 'big brand' because you can source extra batteries.
For example
http://www.itslondon.co.uk/pd_MAKPA1...CdTwinpack.htm

Two 18v 1.3a/hr NiCd batteries for just over £70.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

L-Ion have an integral chip which monitors cells, if a cell has
drifted far enough it prevents the battery being charged for safety. I
believe this is "typically" after 300-400 cycles, but I doubt it is
hard coded (ie 300 cycles OR cell out of spec).

The recent Makita do not seem as well built as their 1999
counterparts, but prices are better (both literally and in real terms)
and batteries seem just as good. Gear teeth seem to be weaker, but I
am very hard on them because I use them for milling and other brutal
applications - 1999 drills just took it in their stride until
eventually collapsing after horrific abuse far far beyond what even a
trade application could subject them to.

Never overcharge batteries or stick an ice pack on them (the cells
further away with overheat badly and it is stuffed). Some very cheap
Bosch charges did not auto-switch off or trickle charge, avoid
nonsense like that because the pennies it saves screws you on
batteries which are costly.

It is quite possible to do nearly all DIY work with a Makita 9.6V or
12V, twin 1.3Ah batteries are a lot better than one unless you like
regular breaks. You can pick up "last years model" for about £40 if
lucky. Hammer functionality on a cordless is a bit pointless, you can
use Bosch Multiconstruction bits (no hammer, drill bricks) or Makita
Brickmaster - or just use a mains SDS which runs rings around them.
Hammer (Combi) adds a lot of weight and if not used not necessary. The
9.6V Makita I think gets a "Marathon" motor without stating, it
outperforms the 12V and 14.4V from most other makes (and beats their
own 12V in many applications I think because the real-world-RPM is
higher).

There is a good Dewalt ?14.4V or 18V? which has relatively high RPM,
useful for certain bits which need the RPM high. Remember an SDS is
generally 0-900rpm or so which is not much use with certain drill bits.

18V is getting heavy, but has the attraction of cordless angle
grinders, jigsaws, circular saws (I think) and the obligatory blind
yourself torch.

On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 19:14:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


I wished I had been able to buy the Wickes high torque drill (actually
a rebadged Kress), but that reputed-gem had been discontinued.

Was that the corded or cordless one? I think that they did a cordless
one that also had a 90 degree adaptor but also a mains one that had
gears and could be used for mixing. The Medway Handyman posted here
about the corded one I remember. By the time I learnt about them they
had been reduced to clear and no-one had any left. Does anyone else
sell Kress drills? Surely Wickes wasn't/isn't the only people to sell
Kress drills? Do Kress still make Wickes' drills? I thought the new
range was made by someone else but I don't know why I think that.

Thanks,
Stephen.

wrote:

I wished I had been able to buy the Wickes high torque drill (actually
a rebadged Kress), but that reputed-gem had been discontinued.

I've got one I hardly ever use if you need one.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:48:02 -0000, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I've got one I hardly ever use if you need one.

If he doesn't want it, can I? Which one is it: the corded or cordless?

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:54:09 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Back in 2004 I emailed Kress regarding sales and support etc. They said
they did not have any dealers in the UK but did sell direct from
Germany

I could try that as there isn't import duty on purchases within the EU
is there? The last time I looked though, the Kress drills were
brightly coloured; the Wickes grey was kinder on the eye!

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:28:29 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

having three batts helps here, since you ought not charge a hot
pack. That gives you a chance to have one in use, one cooling down after
use, and one charging.

I know that batteries get hot when recharging but never knew they got
warm in use. I've learned something new today.

I never knew some people tried to force cool them with ice packs
either!

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:48:02 -0000, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I've got one I hardly ever use if you need one.

If he doesn't want it, can I? Which one is it: the corded or cordless?

Corded.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John Rumm wrote:
On 15/11/2010 15:52, js.b1 wrote:
18V is getting heavy, but has the attraction of cordless angle
grinders, jigsaws, circular saws (I think) and the obligatory blind
yourself torch.

Yup agreed - its fairly hefty - but no more so than a mains drill.

If you want to push the boat out, then having a 18V one for the heavy
jobs, and one of the new breed of 10.8V LiIon jobbies for light tasks
might be the ideal combination.

Both Mak and Bosch do a nice twin set of tiny drill and impact driver
that looks rather nice:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...&product=94367

Drool.....


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk