If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 27 July, 19:53, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? *Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Depends how much load. You can bend it cold if you don't mind a
radius on the corner formed. There's no point in any form of heating
unless you need a very sharp (and weaker) corner.

On Jul 27, 7:53*pm, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? *Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?


The usual way is to keep the load applied in use far below the load
used to bend it


NT

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:53:51 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

If it's simply mild steel it's liable to bend back. You'll have to
either case-harden it or provide some form of strut to provide
strength.

--
Frank Erskine

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

critcher said........................
not really a handyman then eh.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

If you want to support a very light load, then you can bend hot or cold and
it should stay.

If you want to support a medium to heavy load, then flat metal will not
support that for any length of time.

But as usual, the qualifier is the length of the bar - the longer the loaded
end, the less load it will support before bending back.

As for "quenching" - that will not work on mild steel, the best you can do
is case harden it - and you will still not prevent it bending back.

Now perhaps you could tell the group some valuable information such as:

What is it to support?
How long are each of the legs?
Is the supported piece to be inside or outside the bend?

BTW, this sort of thing should be second nature to you.


Ah well. And I await the usual response from you

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

You can't, unless you put a brace across to make a triangle or bend it into
a triangle in the first place as seen in numerous hanging basket supports.
That is the point of mild steel: nice and malleable. Mind you, you are not
saying how big this L is wanted to be. You could just cut off an inch of
angle iron (drilling any screw holes before you cut.)

On the other hand, as it is only 1/8 thick, you may be able to get enough
carbon into it to put some spring on the outside by heating it to red hot
and dunking it in sugar or similar high carbon source as per the case
hardening thread a week or two ago.

S

On 27/07/2010 19:53, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

Just look at pressed steel shelf brackets. The strength comes from the
moulding of the groove along the two parts of it that give it it's strength.

Dave

critcher wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

critcher said........................
not really a handyman then eh.

Oh look. Its the 'Unbeliever' **** with a new name surely?

I'm a handyman, not a ****ing blacksmith - thats why I was asking.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Unbeliever wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

If you want to support a very light load, then you can bend hot or
cold and it should stay.

If you want to support a medium to heavy load, then flat metal will
not support that for any length of time.

But as usual, the qualifier is the length of the bar - the longer the
loaded end, the less load it will support before bending back.

As for "quenching" - that will not work on mild steel, the best you
can do is case harden it - and you will still not prevent it bending
back.
Now perhaps you could tell the group some valuable information such
as:
What is it to support?
How long are each of the legs?
Is the supported piece to be inside or outside the bend?

BTW, this sort of thing should be second nature to you.


Ah well. And I await the usual response from you

You've got it. **** off and die. I wouldn't take advice from a **** like
you if you were the last person on the planet.

Have you tried getting a life you sad ****?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 27/07/2010 19:53, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

Thinking about this, heating and quenching would do nothing to mild
steel, as it doesn't have enough carbon content. Case hardening would
make it brittle.

Dave

On Jul 28, 6:53 am, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

It certainly bends very easily when red hot. I suspect that the
resulting bend will be stronger if bent when red hot. I usually dunk
it in water afterwards, just to cool it down so I can hold it. I'm not
sure if that affects its strength, probably not.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:rQI3o.484478$_m6.61707@hurricane...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

I can bend those with my bare hands so they wont support much.

"dave" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2010 19:53, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make
it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it
cold, heat it, quench it?

Thinking about this, heating and quenching would do nothing to mild steel,
as it doesn't have enough carbon content. Case hardening would make it
brittle.

Case hardening should not make it brittle.
Its a composite.. mild steel core, high carbon skin.. it shouldn't be
brittle.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 6:53 am, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make
it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it
cold, heat it, quench it?

It certainly bends very easily when red hot. I suspect that the
resulting bend will be stronger if bent when red hot. I usually dunk
it in water afterwards, just to cool it down so I can hold it. I'm not
sure if that affects its strength, probably not.

Probably does.
Probably doesn't have much effect on its resistance to bending.

If it were high carbon steel it would make it hard and brittle.
You then need to temper it by heating it to a straw-blue colour before
letting it cool.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:rQI3o.484478$_m6.61707@hurricane...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...Brackets/Corne
r-Braces-Zinc-Plated-25-x-25-x-16-5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

I can bend those with my bare hands so they wont support much.

"Once I was a forty pound weakling. Now I am two separate gorillas."

Eh, dennis ?

only in the canyons of your mind ...

or, have I lost you there ?


--
geoff

On 27/07/2010 23:33, Marty F wrote:
On Jul 28, 6:53 am, "The Medway Handyman"davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

It certainly bends very easily when red hot. I suspect that the
resulting bend will be stronger if bent when red hot. I usually dunk
it in water afterwards, just to cool it down so I can hold it. I'm not
sure if that affects its strength, probably not.


No, it won't. I had a very good grounding in metals and heat when I was
starting my engineering apprenticeship. Many years later, in the
aerospace industry, I had to drill some incredibly hard steels, with
incredibly hard drills. By hand :-(

To cap this for you...

There are plastic and chalk twist drills.
Then there comes HSS.

After this comes Cobalt steel drills.

After this comes C1150 which have short cutting shank and long plain shank.

After this comes D200. This is the type I had to use for the very hard
metal I mentioned above. A 2.5 mm drill would drill just 3 holes and
want grinding again. You couldn't see anything wrong with the cutting
edge, but it couldn't cut a hole any more.

After this came the solid tungsten carbide twist drill. Drill though
almost anything.


Dave

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:rQI3o.484478$_m6.61707@hurricane...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

I can bend those with my bare hands so they wont support much.


Rigidity isn't necessarily a good thing: I used zinc plated corner braces
to hold picket fence panels I made to their posts. The posts are in metal
spike sockets. This is on a bottleneck in a narrow lane, and even though it
is kept bright white the posts get hit once or twice a year. Most of the
time the braces just distort and allow the fence to move without the wood
breaking. Then I wrap a tourniquet around the whole thing and wind it back
up again. Irritating but better than smashed.

Also note that if you are bracing the corners of a box you are going to have
to bend 4 at once.

S

On 27/07/2010 23:59, dennis@home wrote:


"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 6:53 am, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

It certainly bends very easily when red hot. I suspect that the
resulting bend will be stronger if bent when red hot. I usually dunk
it in water afterwards, just to cool it down so I can hold it. I'm not
sure if that affects its strength, probably not.

Probably does.
Probably doesn't have much effect on its resistance to bending.

If it were high carbon steel it would make it hard and brittle.
You then need to temper it by heating it to a straw

Straw. Put your goggles on folks


Dave

On 27 July, 19:53, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

What sort of load?

If you mean "shelf bracket and upwards", then you need to add some
sort of mechanical brace (diagonal, sheet, whatever) because a bend in
1/8" isn't going to hold it. Maybe get a MIG welder and weld something
in there...

Heat treatment won't help, as it doesn't work like that, and it won't
do much to mild steel anyway.

You _might_ find that 1/4" or more is enough to support your load, and
that's bendable if you work it hot (but not really cold). It's not
really heat treatment though, just a temporary softening while you put
the bend in.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Unbeliever wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

If you want to support a very light load, then you can bend hot or
cold and it should stay.

If you want to support a medium to heavy load, then flat metal will
not support that for any length of time.

But as usual, the qualifier is the length of the bar - the longer the
loaded end, the less load it will support before bending back.

As for "quenching" - that will not work on mild steel, the best you
can do is case harden it - and you will still not prevent it bending
back.
Now perhaps you could tell the group some valuable information such
as:
What is it to support?
How long are each of the legs?
Is the supported piece to be inside or outside the bend?

BTW, this sort of thing should be second nature to you.


Ah well. And I await the usual response from you

You've got it. **** off and die. I wouldn't take advice from a ****
like you if you were the last person on the planet.

Have you tried getting a life you sad ****?

TMH = The Meddling Half-wit trying to play with the big boys! Bloody hell a
school leaver has more idea than you.

Well you didn't disappoint me half-wit, the advice is good and, as usual,
your over inflated ego thinks ye knows everything but ye has just proven
from your last two rather idiotic questions that you know absolutely ****
all.

Now question 1 -- What is it to support? surely an indication of the item
and its weight would help to determine an answer to your question?

Question 2 -- That information would give an idea as to whether that above
could be supported using a shorter 'leg'.

Question 3 -- That information would give an idea of whether the bracket
could be reinforced underneath to support heavier loads.

BTY, "****s" are rather useful (you wouldn't be here without one) - or was
it the result of you falling on your head causing brain damage when you
dropped out of your mothers?

The Medway Handyman wrote:
critcher wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

critcher said........................
not really a handyman then eh.

Oh look. Its the 'Unbeliever' **** with a new name surely?

Becoming paranoid now Dave - The Meddling Half-wit? That response was not
mine!!

I'm a handyman, not a ****ing blacksmith - thats why I was asking.

Well using your statement: as "handyman", you're not really a carpenter,
bricklayer, plasterer, electrician, plumber, ground worker, gardener, tiler,
decker etc - so do you really have any knowledge of what you are doing - and
why are you doing it as a business when you have no idea at all? .

And now I know why you have to post here to ask how to wipe your arse
without getting your fingers dirty! (Shakes head in total disbelief).

The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?


Magic?

Or use Unobtanium,. the rare elemnent that has an infinite yield stress
and Young's modulus?


Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?


I dunno. Would you?

Meanwhile , in the real world, WTF are you trying to do that needs
absolute rigidity and infinite strength?

Spamlet wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

You can't, unless you put a brace across to make a triangle or bend it into
a triangle in the first place as seen in numerous hanging basket supports.
That is the point of mild steel: nice and malleable. Mind you, you are not
saying how big this L is wanted to be. You could just cut off an inch of
angle iron (drilling any screw holes before you cut.)

On the other hand, as it is only 1/8 thick, you may be able to get enough
carbon into it to put some spring on the outside by heating it to red hot
and dunking it in sugar or similar high carbon source as per the case
hardening thread a week or two ago.

S


oil is the prefered way to get the carbon.

John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2010 23:11, The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10


They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

Yup, just mild steel bent in a press usually.

Bent in a press 'always'

about 10 tons will do that adequately.

You can just about do a strip of 1/8" in a vice with a block and a mallet.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?



The term "light" is obviously a relative one. Just grab a piece of the flat and
see how much force it takes to bend it. If the effort is much less than the
load you plan to put on it, no problems. If you are thinking about a gradual
sagging (creep), don't worry. As long as you stay within the elastic limit the
bracket will bend a bit then stay put. Just don't go into the plastic range.

In any case, it's easy enough to fabricate a much stronger triangulated bracket.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

Rough and simple - for shelving, etc.
Heat to dull red, bend and let cool down.
If for a shelf bracket, use a brace, if for just a small positional
bracket for a switch, etc, no brace needed.

You'll be lucky to get it hot enough with a propane-only torch.

On 27 July, 23:51, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in messagenews:rQI3o.484478$_m6.61707@hurricane...

The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? *Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a *bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...s/Brackets/Cor...

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. *Are they just bent?

I can bend those with my bare hands so they wont support much.

They are just bent. Put it in a vice and hit **** out of it. No
problem.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:rQI3o.484478$_m6.61707@hurricane...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...Brackets/Corne
r-Braces-Zinc-Plated-25-x-25-x-16-5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

I can bend those with my bare hands so they wont support much.

"Once I was a forty pound weakling. Now I am two separate gorillas."

Eh, dennis ?

only in the canyons of your mind ...

or, have I lost you there ?

You don't have the intellect to lose anyone.
Why don't you go back to being drivel for a while, people miss him.

"Spamlet" wrote in message
...

Rigidity isn't necessarily a good thing:

It is in the application the OP posted about.

I used zinc plated corner braces to hold picket fence panels I made to
their posts. The posts are in metal spike sockets. This is on a
bottleneck in a narrow lane, and even though it is kept bright white the
posts get hit once or twice a year. Most of the time the braces just
distort and allow the fence to move without the wood breaking. Then I
wrap a tourniquet around the whole thing and wind it back up again.
Irritating but better than smashed.

Also note that if you are bracing the corners of a box you are going to
have to bend 4 at once.

But you would probably have some panels attached giving a lot more leverage
and make it much easier.

"dave" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2010 23:33, Marty F wrote:
On Jul 28, 6:53 am, "The Medway Handyman"davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make
it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it
cold, heat it, quench it?

It certainly bends very easily when red hot. I suspect that the
resulting bend will be stronger if bent when red hot. I usually dunk
it in water afterwards, just to cool it down so I can hold it. I'm not
sure if that affects its strength, probably not.


No, it won't.

I would expect it to have some effect on the metal's crystal structure, so
it will have some effect, maybe not a significant effect, it depends on the
length of time, temp, metal, atmosphere, etc.
Its not going to make a better hook for TMH's lifting frame if he is
starting with mild steel.

On 28 July, 07:12, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

You'll be lucky to get it hot enough with a propane-only torch.

Dead easy, if you stack a few firebricks around it.

On 28 July, 01:46, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

oil is the prefered way to get the carbon.

No, oil is one of the least effective (short of pure carbon) ways to
get the carbon.

You can't case-harden or carburize with carbon, because carbon's a
solid up to some enormous temperature and so it won't move from the
bath to the metal. As for pretty much any steelmaking process, the
elemental carbon is transported around as the conveniently portable
and reactive gas, carbon monoxide. There are also industrial liquid
processes using cyanides, as these are denser than gases and more
controllable.

You make carbon monoxide in bulk from coke, or more conveniently for
case hardening from carbon dioxide and an activator (usually barium
salts) that strips some oxygen from this to make the monoxide. As is
well-known, "hoof and horn" (or Kasenit) is the usual supplier of
this. However as oil is a hydrocarbon, it won't do this - at case-
hardening temperatures, bulk oil in the absence of oxygen is pretty
stable. That's why it's used as a quench (deliberately non-reactive),
but not for case hardening.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:6XF3o.96228$xf1.13461@hurricane...
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I make it
stay that shape & not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or bend
it cold, heat it, quench it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




Could you bend it to say 95 deg., then allow the load to bring it to 90 deg?

mark

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Dingley
saying something like:

You'll be lucky to get it hot enough with a propane-only torch.

Dead easy, if you stack a few firebricks around it.

brainfart
I meant to write 'butane'. Doh.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10

They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?


They are not meant for a load such as a shelf,they are to tie two things
together at right angles.(hard to explain)

On 28/07/2010 01:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2010 23:11, The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it cold, heat it, quench it?

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was thinking more of a bracket like this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11529/...5mm-Pack-of-10


They pretty much stay in shape under light loads. Are they just bent?

Yup, just mild steel bent in a press usually.

Bent in a press 'always'

about 10 tons will do that adequately.

You can just about do a strip of 1/8" in a vice with a block and a mallet.

You would need to avoid the vice jaw putting in a sharp corner in the
bend that could produce a stress fracture point. Put a piece of round
bar in the vice, as high as possible in the jaw on the side you are
going to bend towards. Diameter = thickness times 2 minimum.

Dave

On 27/07/2010 23:54, dennis@home wrote:


"dave" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2010 19:53, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If I bend a piece of 1" x 1/8" ms flat into an 'L' shape, how do I
make it
stay that shape& not bend back when a load is applied?

Would I heat it to 'red', bend it, then quench it in water/oil? Or
bend it
cold, heat it, quench it?

Thinking about this, heating and quenching would do nothing to mild
steel, as it doesn't have enough carbon content. Case hardening would
make it brittle.

Case hardening should not make it brittle.
Its a composite.. mild steel core, high carbon skin.. it shouldn't be
brittle.

Sorry, I was forgetting why we case harden mild steel.

Dave

Unbeliever used his keyboard to write :
Well using your statement: as "handyman", you're not really a carpenter,
bricklayer, plasterer, electrician, plumber, ground worker, gardener, tiler,
decker etc - so do you really have any knowledge of what you are doing - and
why are you doing it as a business when you have no idea at all? .

We all learn by asking questions and exchanging knowledge. None of us
can be experts in all things.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk